Rollover

[Anonymous]

Does the '2 have any sort of rollover protection at all (it doesn't look it to me... unless you happed to be really short)?

[Anonymous]

The roll over protection in the '2 is built into the windscreen surround, as it is in many roadsters now. They are suprisingly strong and are part of the integral strength of the car.

So, if you decide that you want to try it out one day, then you have no worries about it collapsing. I think you would have to turn the car upside down and drop it from about 50 foot for it to break!!!

[Anonymous]

Ahhh... that's cool...

But I guess I'd need to remember to lean forward... 'cause as I recall the line from the top of the windscreen to highest point at the rear of the car (ie. how it would lie if upside down), is about halfway through my head  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I have always wondered that and I am a right short arse!!!!

Also, as we don't usually have four point harnesses in our cars, surely we would fall out anyway?  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

I guess it's not surprising then that this isn't mentioned under the safety section of the MR2 brochure (which does mention crumple zones, airbags and force limiting seatbelts).

Perhaps the best protection then is to not get the car inverted, though I guess that's not always under my control.

[Anonymous]

Heh heh.....bang on............  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

I think with modern cars, it is very difficult to get them upside down now anyway. You have to be in one hell of a smash for the car to invert.

So, unless you intend on hitting something with a slight incline, or the front end of...ooooohhhhhh.....maybe a GT40 head on, then I don't think you will have TOO many problems..........

[Anonymous]

Perhaps the best protection then is to not get the car inverted, though I guess that's not always under my control.

On a skid pan course I did a while ago, they teach you that there is no such thing as an "accident". With a few exceptions (eg mechanical failure), every 'accident' is the result of human error.

Of course, that human isn't always you, but if you're a good human, then you should predict and see other human's errors coming   s:o s:o

[Anonymous]

Of course, that human isn't always you, but if you're a good human, then you should predict and see other human's errors coming   s:o s:o

Sure it's possible to predict every accident coming... but then we'd all me moving around at 3mph, just in case someone/something jumps out in front of us.

I pulled out from a T junction a year and half back (my fault   s:( s:(  ) and someone ran into the side of me.  The only way I can think that the person would have been able to do something to prevent that is to have driven past the junction I was waiting at at 5mph, just in case I pulled out.   s:? :? s:?  

You can be ready to hammer the brakes and slow down, but if they pull out just in front of you... what can you do?

[Peter Laborne]

But I guess I'd need to remember to lean forward

I very much doubt this would work. Remember the Roadster had a pre-tensioner built into the seatbelts. Those who watched Top Gear the other week will understand what this does. For those that do not, when you have a crash or roll there will be a small explosion in the seatbelt reel. This will wind in the seatbelt at high speed and lock it in place. So basically you will be strapped tightly into your seat.

Leaning forward will not help as the system needs to cope with head on crashes where the driver/passenger is thrown forward with high G-force.

As for a 4/5-point harness, this has a few pro's and con's for simple harnesses.
Pro - Straps you tightly to your seat.
Con - Because you are strapped tightly you may not be able to reach the dials, sterio etc....unless you have freakishly long arms.
Pro - Looks good
Con - Mounting points for the harness need to be in the right place in order to pull the harness at the correct angles (eg the ideal for shoulder straps should be between the horizontal and no more than 10deg down from horizontal) and with the right ridgity (sp?)

[Peter Laborne]

I have been looking at one top company that can supply functioning roll over bars and also 4-point harness' for road use. These harness' have a couple of modes:
Sports - whereby the harness locks you into the seat as normal.
Road - whereby it allows some movement so that you can reach dials.

The harness will adjust with your driving (ie if you accelerate, brake or corner hard it will pull you back and if you drive lightly it will allow movement).

The thing is the idea in a Roadster is just that. The company have never put one in our car yet so it isn't even in the design stage yet. The roll bars need to be mounted on the chassis and then the harness mounts onto the roll bar and chassis, that's all I can say at the moment. If there is someone out there wanting to put the money in and be the first then let me know. The roll bars and harness are FIA approved.

[Anonymous]

I've seen a pic of a Roadster on its roof, the front windscreen pillar had bent flat.

The guy had a fit and claimed his car hadn't protected him...

...the pillar WILL bend, it has to, thats how it takes the impact so it doesn't snap off or make the car bounce to much.  It will bend on the impact and help to slow down how fast your head reaches the floor   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

It will take a big impact but it will bend, thats how it protects you if you see what I mean...

[Anonymous]

I've seen a pic of a Roadster on its roof, the front windscreen pillar had bent flat.

The guy had a fit and claimed his car hadn't protected him...

...the pillar WILL bend, it has to, thats how it takes the impact so it doesn't snap off or make the car bounce to much.  It will bend on the impact and help to slow down how fast your head reaches the floor   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

It will take a big impact but it will bend, thats how it protects you if you see what I mean...

At http://www.adac.de/Mein_ADAC/motorwelt/m_archiv/slideshow/Slideshow_Cabrioueberschlag.asp?ComponentID=55501&SourcePageID=58056%231 are some pictures from a report from the German ADAC (like the RAC but yellow) where they rolled a MX5. They slammed the safty and survivability as the pillars gaveway. Look at the 3rd last picture "Gefahr für Insassen" The text links to a bigger pic. The crashed a Beatle and an Astra as well in the same test. The test simulated a roll over at 50Kmh (30mph). The beatle came out best.

I have the full report if anyone is interested.

[Anonymous]

I've seen a pic of a Roadster on its roof, the front windscreen pillar had bent flat.

The guy had a fit and claimed his car hadn't protected him...

...the pillar WILL bend, it has to, thats how it takes the impact so it doesn't snap off or make the car bounce to much.  It will bend on the impact and help to slow down how fast your head reaches the floor   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

It will take a big impact but it will bend, thats how it protects you if you see what I mean...

At http://www.adac.de/Mein_ADAC/motorwelt/m_archiv/slideshow/Slideshow_Cabrioueberschlag.asp?ComponentID=55501&SourcePageID=58056%231 are some pictures from a report from the German ADAC (like the RAC but yellow) where they rolled a MX5. They slammed the safty and survivability as the pillars gaveway. Look at the 3rd last picture "Gefahr für Insassen" The text links to a bigger pic. The crashed a Beatle and an Astra as well in the same test. The test simulated a roll over at 50Kmh (30mph). The beatle came out best.

I have the full report if anyone is interested.

I would imagine it would take a huge amount of a a whack to flatten it, but it can't ALWAYS not bend can it?  I'm no engineer but surely it has to bend some to take the impact else at somepoint it would just snap?

Or not and this is just a dream I'm having... oh crap, I'm naked again!

[Peter Laborne]

...the pillar WILL bend, it has to, thats how it takes the impact so it doesn't snap off or make the car bounce to much.  

It will take a big impact but it will bend, thats how it protects you if you see what I mean...

Sod that. I would rather have a rock-solid bar that will not deform and bounce me along the road instead of having one that will bend and leave my head hitting the ground at 70mph with a 4G force instead of 100mph with a 4G force.

I don't get what you mean when you say that it will bend and that's how it protects you. Take racing cars for example, they are designed to roll and the roll bars/cages must not deform around the cabin. The structure is designed in a way to make the forces travel along the roll bar/cage to areas of the car designed to deform.

[Anonymous]

It's just like crumplezones; they are designed to deform in a controlled manner (easily at first, progressively getting harder), thereby decelerating the impact. High-G impact is far more dangerous, and causes more injury, than high-speed impact (although clearly the two are related).

Take racing cars for example, they are designed to roll and the roll bars/cages must not deform around the cabin. The structure is designed in a way to make the forces travel along the roll bar/cage to areas of the car designed to deform.

Yes, but the tub is the last bit that should take impact; everything else around the car is designed to progressively absorb impact/fall off, thereby reducing the eventual load imposed on the tub in a severe accident.

So it's just the same with our windscreen surround; it may fold flat on the "n"th roll, but by then, it should have done it's primary job to absorb the massive impact of the first roll or two.

Although if you roll that hard, then you've probably got other things to worry about, like arms flailing around, being thrown out completely (which is perhaps preferable), etc, etc...   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:    s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

[Anonymous]

So if it does flatten, you've only got the weight of the car on your head.  Good job the '2 is light then.

[Peter Laborne]

Yes, but the tub is the last bit that should take impact; everything else around the car is designed to progressively absorb impact/fall off, thereby reducing the eventual load imposed on the tub in a severe accident.

I'm thinking of road cars which use roll bars/cages (eg Caterhams, MGF's, Touring Cars, DTM, Super V8's, WRC's etc) and not tubs like single seaters do.

However, overall the area around the drivers cabin should not deform. Think of it like a box the driver sits in. In F1 that is about 1.5ft wide X 5ft long X 2.5ft high (inc roll bar). In a Touring Car it would be about 3ft wide X 5ft long X 4ft high. Anything outside that box can crumple or come off, however the "box" must stay 100% intact.

Now if the car carries a passenger, like a rally car, then the box needs to be extended, so it would be about 6ft wide (or however wide the car is). I can't remeber what race it was, so I'm finding it hard to find a picture, but can anyone remember Colin McRaes hugh crash last year. The back end was completely destroyed and crushed after it rolled heavily, however, the main part of the cabin looked no different to how it did before.

So it's just the same with our windscreen surround; it may fold flat on the "n"th roll, but by then, it should have done it's primary job to absorb the massive impact of the first roll or two.

Its primary job is to save your life, simple. If it folds flat then it will not do that, especially if you are still rolling. And then what if the car ends up on its back.

[Anonymous]

Its primary job is to save your life, simple. If it folds flat then it will not do that, especially if you are still rolling. And then what if the car ends up on its back.

IT does save your life by folding flat, it doesn't just go "pop" and fold flat as the car rolls over and over it starts to fold as the car rolls with each impact absorbing the damage.  The top of the seats also fold forward to help keep your head inside the car should it still be on its roof and the A-Pillar has folded flat.

It can't be just super strong and not bend, if it did in fact reach its maximum amount of impact damage and not bend it would just snap leaving you with no protection at all...

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry but if I'm in my '2 and it flips, the A pillar folds flat and I'm still inside the car I will be dead.  Unless you are very short I can't see any other outcome.

--H--

[Anonymous]

I think what the chaps are trying to say is that you won't end up in a 10G impact (or whatever), because of the equivalent of a front/rear crumple zone.  

Problem is, as you've just mentioned, your head and neck really isn't strong enough to balance a 1tonne car on.

[Anonymous]

Realalistically speaking, it would be bloody difficult to roll a car like the 2 anyway, surely.

So if a situation did arise where it rolled, I think it would be a bl**dy serious smash up and not too sure about the prospects anyway.

Stay safe peeps, don't ever want to read that someone has tested the theory.   s:!: :!: s:!:

[Anonymous]

The seat tops fold forward to protect the head, you don't have to balance the car on your cranium.

Several pics where posted of MR2's on there roofs with flat or almost flat A Pillars on the old SC before the hack.  The drivers all walked away.

[Anonymous]

Problem is, as you've just mentioned, your head and neck really isn't strong enough to balance a 1tonne car on.

Not quite!

I don't intend to go rolling my '2 any time soon so I'm not too worried TBH!

--H--

[Anonymous]

Realalistically speaking, it would be bloody difficult to roll a car like the 2 anyway, surely.

Nor really. A bad camber or skid of a road and it could easily roll. I saw a video of a merc slk with its top down going down a motorway and for some reason the driver lost control (no other cars). He hit the central barrier and the car flipped and rolled 3 or 4 times before stopping just of the hard shoulder. The good thing was the flip up roll bar worked and he just got out of the car and sat on the grass...Shaken, not stired.

[Darth Paul]

Anyone read this month's IN FRONT magazine. Silver '2 on the front?

There's a couple of article in it – one on skid pan training, and another on someone who rolled their car on black ice. They survived.

DP