Stupinks mr2 turbo WIP thread :) 293hp

[James and his MR2]

They don't call you Stu-Pink for nothing, haha. Hopefully not they do look good, red seats and they could probably look even better

[stupink]

Found it hard to put my finger on the handling issue but got there in the end.. it was the power delivery more than anything destroying my confidence.

For those that don't know the Emanage don't provide boost control, so you're stuck with either wastegate or spending silly money on a controller. So what I did which a few others have done is use the Emanage Sub-injector map to map and control a boost control solenoid... Et-Voila... boost control..

Now I copied the setup off the interwebs assuming the experimentation had already done and best configuration applied... WRONG!!!!

Essentially they reccomended the map be Boost v's RPM so you can set the boost by entering the appropriate duty cycle in the box correlating to boost you wanted.. but this meant all the boxes above and below were useless and not used. Waste of a good map... It also meant you had the same boost duty cycle at 1% throttle as you did at 100% throttle, which believe me made a mental car..  you'd be cruising along in 4th, apply light throttle and bang 15psi instantly and off you went lol.. felt like a rocket but mid-bend was un-settling..

So i deleted that map and did it my way.. Changed the sub injector map to one of RPM v's throttle position..  So now I have low duty cycle on the solenoid at low throttle, and high duty cycle at full throttle only, with a linear increase..  So essentially the throttle is now a boost controller, and the power is back progressive as it should be. (the biggest complaint people seem to have about turbo cars!)..   Essentially mid bend you don't poop yourself now if it decides to take-off.. it only does it when you ask it to and MEAN it...


Left on my to-do list.

Finish mapping ignition(still quite conservitive low-mid rpm)
Buy AD08R
Uprated front ARB
Make reinforced engine mount set.
Re-fit the sump which is slowly crying all over my drive.
Get it on the Rolling road to make sure my accelerometer isn't too far off power wise to make sure my insurance is correct.
Get it on the track  s:) s:)
Fix What broke on track.

[stupink]

So a few little updates from the list..

I got a stethiscope thingybob attatched to the engine block so we could go out and fine tune the ignition map.. got that sorted..

fitted a non-return valve because the wallbro pumps don't have one so the car didnt start very well.


So with the ignition all sorted it was off to the rollers,



And the results a little higher than expected, but once you've had it, hard to turn it lback down or it seems slow. so will go with the flow for now.



The engine mounts were struggling (stock oem mounts with kirk inserts), and the car was hopping about a bit driving away, So I bought a second hand set of mounts, sandblasted the left/right mounts and filled the gaps, with the torque mounts(front/rear) i removed the rubber completely, and then poured 60a polyurethane liquid rubber into them and let it set..



bit messy, but never used the stuff before and expected it to set faster than it did, so it expanded slightly in a few places, and overflowed in a few.. but know how to do them now, so may make a second set from my old mounts..  Anyhow got them fitted and drives nice and smooth now, way less movement than before, and not really anymore vibration.. hoping they will stand up to the job. if not im confident i can pour the polyurethane better now(essentially mixed it too cold and so it took forever to set).

To-do list
Tyres
Front Rollbar
Poly bushes (either make my own or buy a kit, not sure yet)

[1979scotte]

Some nice figures there.
Like the idea of making your own poly bushes well done.

[maybeturbo]

Must be a little monster! Makes me want to build one more and more.

[s12vea]

200bhp in a roadster is fun
230bhp epic
250bhp + Insane amount of power in a lightweight car!

[maybeturbo]

Yeah, but I'd have put the 0-60 a fair bit lower than 5? I guess it probably is when on good surface etc etc. my old mk2 turbo used to launch like a stabbed rat, best but about the car, 1st was non existent, just a noise before you grabbed second and got mashed back into your seat. But much heavier I guess and it had massive rear tyres, 9j I think with good rubber.  

Awesome project, approaching 300hp and all DIY, even mapping.  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:

[stupink]

I've not tested any figures in current form I must admit. Probably won't bother until I have a nice hot day and/or better tyres. At the moment first and second does struggle to grip unless conditions are perfect. Tyres just not that good. (Goodyear excellence 3.5mm left).  That said I was having lots of issues with the mounts ruining the feel, may be able to balance better now.

[stupink]

Had a couple of plays and got a 4.5s 0_60, thats with a 2.05s 60ft time, so it should be lower... I'm guessing these cars can do 1.8s 60ft easy enough?
 
My current issue is rev it high and launch, and the clutch slips and won't grip(and by high i just mean 3-4k)..  rev it low and launch, it bogs down.. so its actually pretty difficult to get a good launch on it at the moment. not that im bothered, its not a drag car.. but i'd like to know what it can do  s:) s:)  so when the clutch wears out, it will get uprated some more..

[1979scotte]

Oh man take me for a spin!
I agree its nice to know just what it can do. If only to shut the people up who say you should have bought porsche/mx5/etc etc.

[stupink]

haha.. she is definitely good fun... anyone passing plymouth is welcome to pop out for a demo  s:) s:)

[MattPerformance]

That's a great effort but I'd strongly recommend you wind that boost back a bit.  You must be right on the knife-edge of a con rod failure... one tiny boost spike and it'll fail. (I have understood correctly that it's a stock engine , right?)

[Davegtst]

What boost would you recommend for everyday use and overtake boost on a stock engine Matt?

[stupink]

Yeah its a stock engine matt.
If it was a daily driver I'd not risk it. But its just a toy, all be it one I hope to give some track time. I'm supprised the stock rods cope with 140hp so I'm under no illusion I'm taking a risk. If they break I'll put a set of H beam steel rods in the new engine as well as lower the compression ratio.

Dave. Its more about torque and rpm with rods. Boost isn't directly relevant but matt knows the power of this engine so is suggesting a boost cut based on that. So sadly there's no such thing as "safe" boost level.

[MattPerformance]

What boost would you recommend for everyday use and overtake boost on a stock engine Matt?

As Stupink says, it's not an exact science.  11psi is considered the max boost on a stock engine but you couldn't hold that at the higher rpm because the rods are being subjected to much higher loads already (without the boost).  Most people would work with 10psi in the mode range tailing off to about 7psi at the top end.

The other thing to factor in is boost creep. As the engine gets hotter and you start loading it up in the higher gears you will most probably see some boost creep.  On the road you tend to use the lower gears so this is less likely but on track (one with some reasonably long straights) I'd expect to see this phenomenon and I don't think it'd last half a day.  I'd love you to prove me wrong because the turbo kit set-up (and results) you've achieved is terrific.  Good luck Stu.

[stupink]

Cheers Matt, hopefully i'll "get away with it", I tried the car lower power and it just wasn't fun enough for me(spoilt by last car), so it's either risk it or don't use it until I can afford the time/money for steel internals. I've already got the spare engine, so i'll play with this one till it pops, either it goes and i end up off the road for a while anyway, or it keeps going and i get some fun out of it and don't waste money on internals i dont ever use.  s:) s:)

[lamcote]

Hi Stupink this is a great thread. Can I clarify some details which I may be confused about?  
1) You are using a completely standard engine including 10:1 compression ratio?
2) You are getting 250bhp at the wheels and 293bhp at the crankshaft?
3) You are using 8psi boost max?
4) Presumably you are using high octane fuel of some sort?

Sorry if I have misunderstood any of this but I am intrigued to know what the potential of this engine is.

Thanks

[stupink]

Hi Stupink this is a great thread. Can I clarify some details which I may be confused about?  
1) You are using a completely standard engine including 10:1 compression ratio?
2) You are getting 250bhp at the wheels and 293bhp at the crankshaft?
3) You are using 8psi boost max?
4) Presumably you are using high octane fuel of some sort?

Sorry if I have misunderstood any of this but I am intrigued to know what the potential of this engine is.

Thanks

All correct bar the boost.. I was initially running 8psi but it was not quick enough.. so its now setup higher.. about 12.5psi spike, drops very gradually to about 11psi at the redline.   I tried bp97 and had occasional det, tesco 99 seems cleaner even with reduced ignition retard.

[lamcote]

Thanks, so was it 250 bhp with 8psi and 293 bhp with 12.5psi boost? If so, did you need high octane fuel with 8psi? (I note the BMW 335i runs 8.8psi on a 10.2:1 compression ratio on standard fuel, do you think the 1zz could do the same?)

[1979scotte]

I have an sp turbo pushing 230bhp installed by matt and was told to use only high octane fuel.
I try to use Tesco or Shell fuels.

[parker455]

I'd always run premium fuel, Tesco's 99 i've found bang for buck good. My mk2 import turbo runs it nicely at 12psi boost and advanced ignition.

[lamcote]

What boost and compression ratio is yours running 1979scotte?
And do you have an intercooler?

[parker455]

Intercooler is a must

[stupink]

No you were right the first time the figures are fly and wheel as it is. I'd never run a turbo car on std pump fuel let alone a naturally aspirated turbo conversion.
That's not to say you can't. The standard ECU is epically good at retarding ignition to compensate. But you'll end up with a horrific power delivery. Likewise without inter cooling. It will just run too hot, det, and the ECU will cut it back, it will feel horrible.

[1979scotte]

What boost and compression ratio is yours running 1979scotte?
And do you have an intercooler?

Intercooler yes.
Compression ratio is standard no altered internals.
Boost i am not sure 7psi? Matt would know its his kit.