Brake upgrades?

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 11:51

Hi all,

It seems as though the front brake discs on the '2 are a weak point. I keep reading about rust and warping. Is there a performance alternative that's more resistant to warping?

cheers

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 12:29

this on a Mk3 MR2 you're reading about it? I've been lurking here for over a year now and not heard a thing about warping or fading or anything like that.

The hubs rust a bit, but a bit of paint should sort that.

As for performance alternatives, as WoodenDummy will tell you, your car can outbrake a McF1 supercar with the standard brakes....

And then there's all sorts of other things to say about increasing braking power affecting suspension wear etc. etc.

To be honest I think your best bet is changing out the pads for something a little more fade resistant (think mph has a load of knowledge on this), but then need to beware of going to OTT for fear of having no brakes when cold.

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 12:38

Noble,

Trust us when we say you really don't need to do anything with the brakes. Warping is almost non existant (some unlucky ones have had it, but god its rare) and rusting is 99% of the time cosmetic. The braking power itself is utterly, utterly astonishing for such a standard road car. Not even the Japanese racers actually change the set up of the brakes themselves, usually just opting to change the pads to something less fade prone (and bloody hell you need to be hammering or tracking it to induce that!)

If you are worrkies, Fensport do a range of Black Diamond discs at reasonable prices (I had them on my Mk1 and they ARE very good. Whether they would improve braking on a Mk3 I doubt though.....) and you can get all sorts of pads that will help reduce fade. But, for normal, fast road work, you really, honestly have nothing to worry about...........stamp on them, you will see what we mean!!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 12:49

tbh, i dont think the brakes are THAT good s:? :? s:? . if these brakes are better than a 627BHP supercar, then i wouldnt want to have to stop qucikly in a macca F1!

Tem · July 8, 2004, 12:51

Quote from: "John Woodward"If you are worrkies, Fensport do a range of Black Diamond discs at reasonable prices (I had them on my Mk1 and they ARE very good. Whether they would improve braking on a Mk3 I doubt though.....)

Probably wouldn't make a difference, the stock discs are quite enough to engage the ABS. As long as you can get the ABS to kick in, you just can't improve braking with better discs/pads. Some pads do feel different, meaning they bite a lot more with less pedal movement, but the stopping distance stays the same.

Now if you get some stickier rubber and can't get the ABS to kick in anymore, then you do need better brakestuff s8)

s8)

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 12:55

My discs are warped right now and I've got a receipt for replacement discs from the former owner from just 11 months ago. Also, on another thread I'm subscribed to, some users have experienced disc warping too.

Basically they either need replacing or skimming. Have you lot got a preference when it comes to discs?

cheers

Tem · July 8, 2004, 13:14

Quote from: "Noble"Basically they either need replacing or skimming. Have you lot got a preference when it comes to discs?

I was thinking of getting the DBA discs myself...only for the looks though s8)

s8)

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 15:42

Black Diamond. Good performance and look excellent if you get the grooved and cross drilled ones........ s8)

s8) Fensport, like I said........

And its interesting that you report warping Noble cos the Mk1 was notorious for it. Until the changed the disc and the size about 2 years into the production run to cure it. Strange that innit?

markiii · July 8, 2004, 18:49

Quote from: "Noble"My discs are warped right now and I've got a receipt for replacement discs from the former owner from just 11 months ago. Also, on another thread I'm subscribed to, some users have experienced disc warping too.

Basically they either need replacing or skimming. Have you lot got a preference when it comes to discs?

cheers

What pads are you running? I'll never us EB again as they have a habit of putting so much heat into the disc it warps.

On standard pads you'd be the first case I've heard of.

mph · July 8, 2004, 21:27

There's no such thing as warped discs - it's a self-perpetuating myth! A combination of cheap pad material and/or poor driving can cause localised hardening of the disc causing an uneven surface or wear rate, but discs don't warp.

Next up - grooved/cross-drilled brakes in most circumstanes reduce braking efficiency and at the expense of increased pad wear. Further, they're more prone to crack during heavy use.

/pedant rant s:x :x s:x s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

If you want a brake upgrade, get some decent pads. Mintex 1144s I can recommend for road and track; or even the TRD 'fast-road' as long as you don't go near a track with them. The Mintex are around £230 a set - you gets what you pay for..

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 21:46

generally warped discs as they are referred to are common with the vented variety such as are found on the 'two'. the central blades that hold the two outer surfaces together corrode and can seperate. Consequently the gap between the two outer wearing surfaces becomes uneven this causing a 'pulsing' sensation through the brake pedal and in severe cases the steering wheel.

This is why these are commonly referred to as 'warped' as the cross section of the disc has become uneven, or warped

This said, it is only usually found on older cars with discs that havnt been changed in a long time, my old supra suffered from this front and back.
Used to be very common

Bongo · July 8, 2004, 21:47

Does anyone have the stopping distance figures for the 2 and/or other cars for comparision?

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 23:23

'Warping' is the generally accepted term for the problem I've described. It's easier to carry on referring to it as such. I know a fair bit about cars and the mechanics of engineering but just wanted to know if there is a tried and tested brand of disc.

£230 for mintex 1144!! Someone's getting conned there! For my 200sx they're only £100 and it uses a much bigger pads (4-pots). Personally, Ferrodo DS2500 or Porterfield are the daddies and I'm not alone in this opinion. Don't get me wrong Mintex 1144 are crackin' pads and I have actually used them when I couldn't get DS2500's.

I haven't got a clue what's on the '2 at the moment but I do know they're aftermarket discs and pads - most likely Blueprint brand.

cross-drilled discs are a big no-no in consummate circles. Upto ten grooves on a disc is acceptable tho. The discs sold with more than ten grooves are actually worse for braking. I believe I read somewhere that six grooves are the sweet spot with them types of disc but still ppl veer away from them.

cheers

Anonymous · July 8, 2004, 23:34

Quote from: "Noble"'Warping' is the generally accepted term for the problem I've described. It's easier to carry on referring to it as such.

Thats right matey s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

the situation is that no one seems to have gone for uprated discs due to both the supposed stopping power of the oem ones (this seems to be widely viewed) and also the fact that the car is still relatively new and many discs are or have been changed under waranty

was looking for some myself, fancied the AEM big disk upgrade they do for the celica but unfortunately they havnt offered one for the 'two' yet, I think the market may be too small in comparison.

would be interested in what you find tho :-) :-) :-)

Tem · July 9, 2004, 06:37

Quote from: "Noble"£230 for mintex 1144!!

I haven't got a clue what's on the '2 at the moment but I do know they're aftermarket discs and pads - most likely Blueprint brand.

If you have some aftermarket stuff in there, you might wanna try the stock parts s;)

s;)

Then again, you can get TRD stuff dirt cheap from US, TRD front pad pair can be had for some $30, which is less than the stock pad pair over here. Shame they don't have the TRD rears in US s:? :? s:?

markiii · July 9, 2004, 09:16

Quote from: "Noble"'Warping' is the generally accepted term for the problem I've described. It's easier to carry on referring to it as such. I know a fair bit about cars and the mechanics of engineering but just wanted to know if there is a tried and tested brand of disc.

£230 for mintex 1144!! Someone's getting conned there! For my 200sx they're only £100 and it uses a much bigger pads (4-pots). Personally, Ferrodo DS2500 or Porterfield are the daddies and I'm not alone in this opinion. Don't get me wrong Mintex 1144 are crackin' pads and I have actually used them when I couldn't get DS2500's.

I haven't got a clue what's on the '2 at the moment but I do know they're aftermarket discs and pads - most likely Blueprint brand.

cross-drilled discs are a big no-no in consummate circles. Upto ten grooves on a disc is acceptable tho. The discs sold with more than ten grooves are actually worse for braking. I believe I read somewhere that six grooves are the sweet spot with them types of disc but still ppl veer away from them.

cheers

Ibeleive that the mintex are made to order, as they aren't listed for the 2, hence the price.

mph · July 9, 2004, 14:23

Quote from: "Tem"If you have some aftermarket stuff in there, you might wanna try the stock parts s;) s;)

Yeah I have - I'm currently on nice cheap stock pads - unfortunately managed to overheat them and they glazed. Not sure whether that's better or worse than the TRD pads that begin to disintegrate when they overheat.

Tem · July 11, 2004, 18:36

Quote from: "mph"
Quote from: "Tem"If you have some aftermarket stuff in there, you might wanna try the stock parts s;) s;)
Yeah I have - I'm currently on nice cheap stock pads - unfortunately managed to overheat them and they glazed. Not sure whether that's better or worse than the TRD pads that begin to disintegrate when they overheat.

I meant noble, not you turbofreak s;)

s;)

I wonder what pads the JGTC teams are using..? They are supposed to have the stock brakes...and being in GT300 they should have some 300hp and the racing tyres should really be pushing the brakes as well...

Anonymous · July 17, 2004, 16:24

Hi all,

Just an update: front discs fine but rear discs were terrible! I'll post a pick asap. They were rusted so bad that they'd fused onto the wheel and the hub. I had to use a mallet to remove them. Also the rust had eaten right into the contact patch area of the pads!

I'm still trying to find a decent priced source for tidy rear discs but with limited success. It seems that only a few places actually supply the rears being around £55 - £80 each depending where you go! Noone has suppliers open on a Saturday too s:(

s:(

Tried Black Diamond and EBC direct and they're insistant that they don't do a rear disc s:? :? s:? ...But they do the fronts... Everywhere else says they're too new and they all get replaced under warranty so there's no need to manufacture them...

I found out recently from a source in the trade that Toyota have been getting problems wiht their brake discs on both the '2 and the Avensis. This seems to tally up with reports of most ppl here having discs replaced under warranty; also I have a few friends who have bought Avensis' aged between 2000-2003 and have all had to have their brake discs replaced cos of rusting or "warping".

Hope this helps s:)

s:)

mph · July 18, 2004, 15:32

Not sure whether you meant it like this or not, but I think it's a really bad thing to have different pad compounds front to rear. You'll find that as the pads warm their friction values differ from each other (changing the brake bias) and that's not something you need for consistency!

Tem · July 18, 2004, 16:29

Quote from: "mph"Not sure whether you meant it like this or not

I think too many people are overlooking brake balance these days cause of ABS s:? :? s:?

Anonymous · July 18, 2004, 17:33

Quote from: "Tem"
Quote from: "mph"Not sure whether you meant it like this or not

I think too many people are overlooking brake balance these days cause of ABS s:? :? s:?

Quite right m8. Athough its a nightmare trying to find manufacturers that make their product for both front and rear braking components.

markiii · July 18, 2004, 18:19

whats wrong with Toyota?

Anonymous · July 19, 2004, 00:18

Quote from: "markiii"whats wrong with Toyota?

What's right with them is what you should be asking... Their pads are fine but the discs are poor (re: "warping", corroding) with most being happily replaced within warranty. But for poor sods like me just out of warranty they are not worth bothering with a second time - especially for the price! Mr.T quoted £65+vat per rear disc. Better parts can be had for less from other sources.

Anonymous · July 19, 2004, 03:32

Quote from: "Noble"
Quote from: "markiii"whats wrong with Toyota?

What's right with them is what you should be asking... Their pads are fine but the discs are poor (re: "warping", corroding) with most being happily replaced within warranty. But for poor sods like me just out of warranty they are not worth bothering with a second time - especially for the price! Mr.T quoted £65+vat per rear disc. Better parts can be had for less from other sources.

you were just told its not common thing for MR2 discs to "warp" if you are using stock pads... There are quite few owners here and quite more on SC, and its not an common problem. Most ppl who compared different pads for road use on mr2 found Toyota's the best ones... If you put different brand pads without upgrading discs, there is no saying exactly how they might affect your disc, hence your rear discs being melted onto the wheel... Maybe they overheated due to aftermarket pads?

As to rusting and warping in general on Toyota cars, rusting is just cosmetic, and warping only was an real problem on Avensis Verso, front brakes and thats was not due to poor quality disc.

Most Mr2 owners are very happy with their brakes...