2ZZ swappers and Turboers: are you happy?

[1979scotte]

You will be smiling ear to ear   s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:

Until the fuzz click the cuffs on

Have a safe journey in the morning.

Remember your car will feel very different on Tuesday   s8) s8)    s8) s8)

Thanks Steve think I'll take it easy the way home tbh.
If the sable is for sale what's replacing it?

[s12vea]

I'm sure my new one will be revealed soon  s;) s;)

[Die$eL]

I have a 1ZZ turbo. If I had to do it again, I'd go 2ZZ for the reliability + revving to 8000rpm   s:D s:D

[loadswine]

I've had several 1zz turbos, they were fun, but the best overall was the V6. More fun for more of the time, you could enjoy it even when going quite sedately. A Rotrex supercharged 2zz would be one that I would love to try. Think that would be ace.

[MattPerformance]

Another important factor is the overall cost...
A turbo conversion may seem expensive compared to a 2zz conversion but the turbo kit can be removed at the end of ownership and a large proportion of the original costs can be recovered.  Not so for an engine conversion and even less attractive when you're talking about even more expensive conversions (I accept that certain converted cars do in fact retain their 'investment' because the rest of the car is so good - e.g. Nigel's last V6, but on the whole engine converted cars are difficult to sell and tend to lose more money).
It also depends on who is doing the work and how lucky you are... Fitting a 2zz can be quite inexpensive on a DIY basis, especially if the 1zz is already dead but, in the price brackets being discussed, you're always dealing with a second hand engine and, whilst reliable, the 2zz is not totally infallible.
Notwithstanding the driving characteristic trade-offs, the other 'issue' associated with turbo conversions is the addiction to the pursuit of more power... Which then undermines my whole life cost argument due to the cost of additional mods, mapping etc.
Personally I'd go turbo every time (not necessarily 1zz, as per the mention of the 3SGTE) because with the right set-up, even on track, you get a very reliable package and a faster car.  With a stock engine, my old SP Turbo kit made 235bhp and 225ftlbs and it never missed a beat on a great number of track days.  I agree it would be closely matched by a 2zz engined car on track but not on the road, and the resale value of removing the kit long term is the icing on the cake.
Going mad with built engines and massive turbos etc shooting for 300+bhp is another matter altogether but if you're committed enough to do that it's not about the money, or the alternatives, it's just about the pleasure of doing it and driving it.

[bluesmoke]

Some good points, definitely. Isn't it difficult fitting an intercooler if you want to keep your air con?

I still haven't made up my mind on which direction to go myself. I think my MK2 turbos were the most fun I've had on the road. A MK3 turbo would be a great way of reviving the spirit of those. 235bhp would be phenomenal in a Roadster, I reckon.

[parker455]

Just got a mk2 turbo.. turbo is insane, as for air con, mine has been sacrifised at some point in it's life. Has a side mounter intercooler so that could be why.. Air con though, who needs it? We're in the uk, open a window  s;) s;)  

the mk2 has been the most fun i've had, the fuel gauge drops like mad but it's all worth it for the smiles! The roadster would be great at that BHP! Going to get mine dyno'd over summer, excited for the results!

[1979scotte]

After having my Sp Turbo for most of a week I can say that I am very happy.
I missed the torque provided by my previous car and the turbo really provides that.
Overtaking the OAP/tractor etc only requires a short well sited straight with no manic
reving multiple gear changes. Depress right foot and your gone.
The only problem that I have is that I arrive at corners too fast for my ability/confidence
but I am new to the 2 in general so with time/practice/tuition I am sure I'll get the hang
of it.

[Carplay]

Very interested in this but what is all this 1zz 2zz speak about?

[AndyM]

1zz = The Toyota MR2 Mk3 Stock engine

2zz = A similar Toyota engine (used in things like the Celica 190 and Corrola T-Sport) that generates more power and revs higher.

The 2zz is pretty much the easiest engine to drop into the roadster will minimal additional parts/modifications/faffing about (although a bit is still required). Both the 1zz and 2zz have been popular with Lotus for their Elise range, the 2zz being the most recent of the two used.

[Carplay]

So the engine in my mr2 went into a lotus Elise? What power are the t sport engines? Sorry to litter the thread I'm going now lol

[AndyM]

Yes, for the first Series 2 Elise they replaced the old Rover K-Series engine with the 1zz (which is in your car).

The power output of the 2zz in T-Sport/Elise guise is approx. 190bhp.

[Carplay]

Thanks Andy, winter project ay lol

[bluesmoke]

I'm actually starting to lean towards turbo.... I loved my MK2 turbo so much, and when I drove a Z4 3.0si last year I was a bit underwhelmed with the power delivery. I think a turbo would allow me to build a true successor to my old car, but it will not happen until the winter as half the budget I had in mind for it will go on getting a replacement daily when my current car sells.

[Alex Knight]

I'm actually starting to lean towards turbo

Does this help complicate things?  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  I love this 2ZZ powered car! :

[youtube:d7xqoxcl]gSnqQADApEs[/youtube:d7xqoxcl]

[Anonymous]

Me too, amazing!!

[AndyM]

That does look (and sound) like a lot of fun!  s:D s:D

[bluesmoke]

It's always complicated. My main worry is I buy a car which isn't the Celica donor I originally intended and then decide I DO want a 2zz!

[parker455]

Went for a ride in a celica 2zz yesterday, wasn't impressed overall with the power and lift.. Didn't have the 'kick in the back' feeling

[Anonymous]

I've not been in a celica but I've been in a roadster with the 2zz and the lift and power is excellent.

[nathanMR2]

I tend to agree with Matt here.

Whilst I haven't done it myself I don't consider whats involved to install a 2zz as a simple 'we'll just pop that in there'.

There are a number of things to consider which I did before I finally went turbo...

Is your own 1zz engine good and strong?

If yes then why would you want to swap it for an engine you know little about, whether that be 2zz or anything else? Good low mileage 2zz engines are not so easy to find and you need to source a fair few bits for the conversion.

If no then its probably a good to replace it with a 2zz if the engine is likely to have to come out anyway.

Do you ever plan to sell the car and if so are you happy that its going to be difficult to sell a car with an engine conversion?

Much as people bang on about wanting a 2zz when you actually come to sell the car we have seen sales take many months. They don't get snapped up quickly unless its cheap and by cheap I mean as cheap as a 1zz.

The turbo can come off and be sold. Whilst I had made my TTE kit better (more shiny and a few bits swapped), when I sold the kit I didn't actually lose money. There is no doubt that you WILL lose money on the 2zz.

Do you want something you can upgrade in the future for perhaps more power?

Once you have the turbo you can add bits (bigger injectors, remaps, charge coolers) to make it better or faster (to a point without having to change the engine internals). Whilst this isn't usually cheap, it is likely to be cheaper than getting a 2zz turbod or supercharged later on when you want more (no matter what you say we all want more)

Would you rather have the spool up of the turbo behind your head or a high reving engine that you are going to need to work hard?

Boost, whether it be the noise or the kick up the arse is addictive! Im not so sure this applies the same way for a high revy engine.

I think there has been enough of us to have a turbo strapped to a 1zz to know that they can be perfectly reliable when done correctly. Sure they aren't cheap but if you love your roadster now then a turbo will give a new unfound love. Think of it as your Mrs getting a boob job  s;) s;)

The best decision I made was to turbo mine and whilst I sold the car only recently it probably would have been sooner had I not turbod it.

That said I ran the car stock for a few months after spending a while turbo'd and a whole heap of N/A mods before that. It made me realise how good the little roadster was stock after driving a few other cars in the mean time.

[parker455]

Couldn't agree with nathan more on this one! Boost is ridiculously addictive!

You know when you see them hit the NOS button in Fast and furious? For me, it's similar to that in the sense that you're glued to your seat. Priceless!

[steve b]

Went for a ride in a celica 2zz yesterday, wasn't impressed overall with the power and lift.. Didn't have the 'kick in the back' feeling

Got to remember they are dragging ~250kg more about than when ones installed in a roadster.

[parker455]

Plus me as a passenger I suppose! Guess they'd be alot better in the roadster

[1979scotte]

2zz for a track car maybe but 1zz turbo for the road.
It would have cost just as much to go 2zz as I spent on my turbo kit and be slower imo.
A V6 would be nice but that's another wheel barrow of cash.