Dear Toyota, why did you fit such a poxy battery?

[aaronjb]

Guess who's car won't start again.. just goes "struggle struggle clicketyclicketyclicketyclickety" Pah.

Something like an Optimate would be great, but since the car is parked out front, electricity supply would be.. problematic.. So, what do those with better electronics knowledge than me think to something like this:

Maplin 'smart' solar charger (If that link doesn't work, search for product N55BF at http://www.maplin.co.uk)

It has overcharge protection and comes with croc clips rather than just a cigarette lighter plug (which would be useless on our cars), so.. it could perhaps be left on the back parcel shelf, with the wires coming out someplace, and going into the engine compartment, hooked to the battery?

Shouldn't be a theft risk, right? (The car, I mean.. the panel might be, but it shouldn't make stealing the car any easier..) Would be easiest to leave it on the boot and keep it all external, but it'd get stolen within 5 minutes around here..

Comments? Ideas?

Driving the car more isn't really an option at the moment - no time or money, and it needs a service & tyres too  s:( s:(

Aaron

[mph]

I'd investigate why you're having a problem in the first place. We don't often hear of problems with the battery drainage - do you some unusual alarm or stereo fitted?

[aaronjb]

Nope - bone stock, stock stereo, stock alarm (which I think has only gone off twice, and not recently)..

I thought I'd read a few messages about battery problems on here though, with cars that are rarely used..

The battery did used to hold a charge for about a month, I guess.. but by that time it was down to 9v (I've not measured the static drain yet), and that's obviously reduced the batteries charge holding capacity as it now only lasts perhaps a fortnight.

The car doesn't really move that much anymore - in fact, the last time I drove it was when my mother visited a fortnight ago.. Not much time these days to drive it, and whenever I do, I'm always paranoid that it's about to expire on me  s:( s:(  If I didn't have the loan on it I'd sell it - though not at the moment, given nobody wants to buy them it seems..

[SteveJ]

Have you checked the drain on the battery using a multimeter with everything switched off?

My first '2 was left sitting for 2 months whilst I was in Oz and yet it started first touch of the key when I got back (but the brakes were a different story  s:( s:(  )

[aaronjb]

Oops, you beat me to it Steve.. Nope - not checked the static drain yet, not really had time, but it was definitely less than 2 months between runs the first time it went flat

[Anonymous]

I haven't replaced a battery since '93, so maybe things have changed, but my experience with maintenance free batteries is that once they go flat they will never hold a charge again (okay for everyday use if the car starts easily, but don't let it sit for a week and don't expect to crank very long). If the recommendation is "drive the car more often", then maybe this is still the case.

That battery I bought in '93 was a cheap Sears DieHard (36 month, not the 60 month maintenance free), and it's still in the '91 Nissan and working just fine. And when the car won't start, all I have to do is add water - I should probably check the level more than once a decade.

[Tem]

I'd investigate why you're having a problem in the first place. We don't often hear of problems with the battery drainage - do you some unusual alarm or stereo fitted?

What he said...fix the real problem instead of the result  s:? :? s:?  You shouldn't need any extra loading if you drive the car every 3 months or so, unless something drains the battery more than stock...

[aaronjb]

What he said...fix the real problem instead of the result  s:? :? s:?  You shouldn't need any extra loading if you drive the car every 3 months or so, unless something drains the battery more than stock...

Easier said than done with electrical faults, though  s;) s;)  Having said that, if I can find a large static drain, then I'll take it back to Toymota and see what they say..

I'll try and check the static drain tomorrow (assuming it doesn't hurl it down all day - the forecast for the weekend is dire!), and perhaps call a few motor factors to try and find the price for a new battery, as the first drop down to 9.4v probably has seriously damaged the plates in this one. An Optima yellow-top would be nice, but they're a tad expensive (and having just checked, the terminals are the wrong way round)

Right, must go, there's a ruddy huge spider right above my head and I'm scared!

Ta all,
Aaron

[aaronjb]

Right - I just checked the static drain on the battery, although I was only able to check it with the doors unlocked, because I couldn't lock the car with my multimeter in series with the battery - on the 10A scale the car locked, but the drain was so small it didn't register, and on the 400mA scale (different hookup on the meter) it wouldn't pass enough current to lock the car.. d'oh!

Anyway, with the alarm disarmed, doors unlocked but closed, the static drain was between 1.5mA and 3.5mA (it fluctuated between the two) - anyone any ideas if that's good or bad?

The battery was down to 11.5V, so it is holding a charge reasonably well (or I'd have expected it to drop down to 9.4V like last time) and the electrolyte level is fine with no warped plates, so it's on a fast charge at the moment (as I need to get it back in the car before dark really, so it has an alarm at night).

Any thoughts?

Ta,
Aaron

[GSB]

3.5mA is fine. but 11.5 Volts is a flat bettery, it should be at least 13.

Re-connect the battery, and start the car. if the voltage increases to 14ish you have a good alternator, if it doesnt pick up you have a dead alternator, if it goes very high (15+Volts) you have dead regulator.

If its none of these things, you need a new battery.

[aaronjb]

3.5mA is fine. but 11.5 Volts is a flat bettery, it should be at least 13.

Yup - I whacked it on charge this morning and it came back up to about 13.4V after a few hours, and seemed to hold that OK.

Popped it back on the car and checked the alternator - ~14.4V regardless of engine RPM and load, so it looks like the alt. is OK.

I guess the battery must have been a bit weak to start off with (probably it's last year of short 10-15m runs, twice a day) and the initial sit of 6-8 weeks flattened it down to 9.4V, which means it's now really struggling to hold a good charge for any amount of time.

As you say, new battery time.. d'oh!

Now I just need to find out how to make the stereo work again  s:( s:(  (I'll start a new thread, since I can't find it in the manual  s:) s:) )

Cheers,
Aaron

[Tem]

static drain was between 1.5mA and 3.5mA - anyone any ideas if that's good or bad?

We have a 48Ah battery (I think?)...it means 48A for an hour or 1A for 48 hours...or 0.0035A for 13714 hours (that's about 18 months  s;) s;) ).
(in reality it's a bit different, but you get the idea)

It will go up with the alarm though. Maybe you could lock the doors with the key and then engage the alarm?

[aaronjb]

It will go up with the alarm though. Maybe you could lock the doors with the key and then engage the alarm?

Actually, thinking about it now - all I'd need to do is put the -ve terminal back on the battery (but not done up tight) and hold the multimeter prongs on both +ve and -ve (oh for a meter with crocodile clips  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  ), arm the alarm and then wiggle the -ve terminal off - the meter will still pass up to 400mA, which should be enough to stop the alarm thinking the battery has been removed, and the 2-3A drain from locking the doors and arming the alarm will be taken care of when the battery is still connected..

Now, why didn't I think of that this morning?  s:? :? s:?

[edit] Forgot to add - considering the battery charged to 13.5V or so, but after a 35 mile drive has dropped back to 12.4V - it looks very much like the battery is kaput..

[Anonymous]

I've had the 2 just over a year now and went through all this pain with the battery in the first few months. The car had only done 9,500 miles when we got it, (first registered April 2001). "You have to use them" was the stock answer from the dealer. As I had just got rid of a 10 year old Celica which needed its original battery change just after I got it 18 months before, I was a bit sceptical, especially as this Celica used to sit for 2 weeks in an open car park high up in Aberdeen while I was offshore and never gave any bother starting when I got back.
 However I am now of the opinion that there is some truth in this "You have to use them", after having a long chat with the service foreman, who told me its not unusual for them to go flat in 10-11 days. It does seem to be the alarm that is the biggets culprit. RAC guys who gave it a jump start a couple of times before Toyota gave me a new battery also said that jumping is rally bad for a battery.
We were leaving the car for a month while on a motor bike holiday earlier this year, so I disconnected the battery. It started fine when we got back.  s:D s:D  
There have been so many posts about this same problem that I'm convinced its not all bad batteries, but that we have a car that is particularly bad at draining them.
Talking to a mate who drives a 10 year old Honda Legend and does all his own maintenance due to being an electronics fount of knowledege, his stand point is that all the toys in a car have advanced in inverse proportion to the advances in battery technology.
Moral, get a new battery and use it, or disconnect it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aaronjb]

Moral, get a new battery and use it, or disconnect it!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I'll have to get a new battery and one of those solar top-up chargers.. Useing it more isn't really an option at the moment, and disconnecting it definitely isn't - I've done that twice with cars that have been laid up, and both times I've had several hundred pounds worth of damage done when someone decided to smash the window and tear most of the dash out just to get at the back of the stereo (without a faceplate!)

Or buy a clattery old diesel runabout to replace the 2 I suppose - the last one of those I had started even after I left the lights on all night!

[Tem]

Or buy a clattery old diesel runabout to replace the 2 I suppose - the last one of those I had started even after I left the lights on all night!

If you're really worried about the battery size, get a good battery, like Optima. Those are really troublefree stuff and equal to normal battery of about double the size. You don't even have to bother to disconnect/charge them if you don't use the car for 6 months. It just starts up...they are a bit pricey though.

[aaronjb]

Right then.. I've just spent the entire morning finding a battery.. I started with Toyota who said they couldn't do one (as it'd be a warranty thing) until November when they have a service slot free..

So next I tried:

ATS - £38 - although I reckon it's for a Mk2..
ProTyre (Micheldever) - £53, but can't get one
PartCo - £58 in stock
KwikFit - £59, can get one tomorrow
Hi-Q - £74 but have two in stock

I ended up driving to ATS, who couldn't find one anyway, got lost on the way back while trying to circumvent a police roadblock (one of those survey/checking areas, they weren't after me  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  ), tried PartCo, who gave me a Mk2 battery which doesn't fit..

Tried Toyota again and decided to just pay for one - £58 or so later, they gave me a battery that's almost the right size (a touch too tall, so you have to bend the battery stay a little) but has the terminals the wrong way round! And that's what Toyota's part system says fits a Mk3, apparently.

Fitted it just now, but it was a right fiddle - you have to wiggle all the wires until they just reach the 'wrong' sides, making sure the +ve isn't actually touching the bodywork (that'd be a Bad Thing (tm))..

Managed to drop the battery stay post and 8mm spanner into the underneath of the car, yay, but all done now - only 30 mins to fit a battery..   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:    s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

Oh yes - new battery is sealed with a 'status indicator' (green=ok, black=dead), old battery was a 'servicable' battery.. I might try and rekindle it with some cycling on a charger, perhaps.

I'm impressed that the salesman that sold me my car still remembered my name on sight though, asked how I was etc - been a year since I was last there! Even asked if I'd done any more mods yet   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

[Jap GT300]

Halfrauds have them in stock for £39.  They don't specify for MK3 so I go buy the ampage on the batteries.

BTW anyone with a japanese import will also have trouble with the battery as if it is an original they are smaller than those supplied for the UK and they would have been dormant for at least 2 months.

The different climates and atmospheric pressure means on a cold day they don't store enough power.

[aaronjb]

Halfrauds have them in stock for £39.  They don't specify for MK3 so I go buy the ampage on the batteries.

I checked the catalogue in my Halfrauds - they listed an HB005 or HCB005 for <1999, but the 1.8 > 1999 just had "-" in all the columns..

Couldn't find anything even remotely the right size on the shelves in mine either - all either too tall or too fat (bit like me  s;) s;) )  s:( s:(

I have another Toyota related rant for later - shall post in .. either General or Chit Chat.. hmm