Greddy emanage tricked into open loop

[Glubux]

Great!   s:D s:D

[lamcote]

That is excellent. My only thought is that the fast idle MOT emissions test might trigger your TPS circuit at those settings so might you be in difficulty for an MOT pass?

[Davegtst]

Not a chance of it getting near 0 psi at those revs with no load.  Even if it does I've left it so I can disconnect the feed from the emanage so it returns the car back to normal.

[Leethesparky]

I've now built a circuit that switches from the real tps voltage to wide open throttle voltage.  It's switched via the vtec output on the emanage and switches on at just over 0 psi and over 2200 rpm.  What a difference it makes!   It pulls so much more smoothly now and feels a lot more powerful,  even holds boost more precisely.  All emanage owners need to do this!   Your rolling road tune is wasted without one.

If you are bored one evening dave.... I don't suppose you want to do a few diagrams and a writeup for this?, I'm really interested but far too lazy to do all the research. Like usual I'm trying to do too many things at once!
  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Davegtst]

I'll try and knock up a circuit diagram.  Lee, I'd really recommend you do this mod.  All of your tuning with be wasted without it.   The long term fuel trims will overrule your emanage settings.

[Leethesparky]

I'll try and knock up a circuit diagram.  Lee, I'd really recommend you do this mod.  All of your tuning with be wasted without it.   The long term fuel trims will overrule your emanage settings.

Yeah, I've been resetting my ecu every few days as it all messes up.
It should settle down after I get the charge cooler and injectors fitted but this mod looks like it will help a lot too

[Leethesparky]

I've just ordered a little voltage regulator to do this.

I've got a couple of questions to save me lots of reading and searching if anyone could answer them, thanks

Which wire is the tps on the stock ecu?
Which wire is the vtec on the emanage blue?
Am I right in assuming the vtec signal is 5v output. Not a switched earth.?

[Glubux]

Vtec Output is on connector B, n°14 (Emanage)
TPS is called VTA, connector C, n°23 (ECU)



The Vtec output is a +12v, you can drive your relay with it.

[Davegtst]

Pretty sure the vtec output wire is light blue.  I believe it's a 12v output too which helps.

[Leethesparky]

Thanks for that, gives me the info I need for wiring.

I just need to look at the emanage now and figure that bit out. Not played with the vtec bit but got an idea from reading dave's previous posts.

Thanks

[Leethesparky]

 s:D s:D  I've just got my voltage regulator delivered today so I will do this tomorrow.
I was looking at the diagram on the previous link and there is no reason at all for a dual pole relay, they have unnecessarily complicated it. It only needs one pole. The ecu is being switched between 2 signals, true tps, fake tps.
so it makes sense to use a normal 5 pin relay. Ecu on common, true tps on nc. Fake tps on no. With the vtec switching the coil. I have no idea why they complicated the wiring but hey.   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Leethesparky]

Mod fitted,

Dave, you were right.. Now I have no lean spots when it's floating in and out of boost. Hills etc.
Feels more responsive, no ecu arguing.

Feel stupid for being lazy and not doing it sooner   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Davegtst]

Good work mate. Mine has been perfect since I made one for my car.   I recommend everyone with q piggyback to do this mod.

[shnazzle]

Ahoi. I've ordered a voltage reducer with lcd screen and I've got  a handful of relays lying around.
Which one of these would be suitable and which wire goes where?


So I've got:

12v vtec switches relay between voltage regulator output and tps sensor output.

So the voltage reducer needs 5v in and output whatever WOT is?

Any wiring pics would be great.

[lamcote]

I've seen reference to it being 3.93v at 100% TPS (Edit:) on the 1zz.

[jvanzyl]

Ummm... Complete novice here but I think Lee mentioned to me that every cars Wot voltage is different....

[shnazzle]

Yeah that's taken into consideration  s:) s:)  

VTEC output from EMB mapped to pass 12v at say 2500rpm and 70% tps or something.

12v goes into switch that I can turn off if necessary for MOT.
If on, 12v powers coil in relay and switches the tps input from the standard output, to the voltage regulator.

Voltage regulator then pushes through WOT voltage regardless.

... And I've just realised the above is wrong because if tps is < WOT its never going to output WOT voltage is it?
Darn gammit!

[shnazzle]

Ah I see the errors of my ways. Need to ground the output from the voltage reducer and feed it with 12v and close the circuit with a ground from the relay

[lamcote]

Have you seen this?

 m http://www.spyderchat.com/forums/showth ... -open-loop m

Do you need the eManage Ultimate to do Clamping? If so, I'm coming to the conclusion that you're really better off with the Ultimate for naturally aspirated engines. The Blue is probably OK for a simple turbo/super charged set up.

[shnazzle]

I'm not sure what he means by those tables because as far as I know those tables don't exist on the EMU.
I would say the EMU is better in every regard for every purpose. The EMB seems to just be a cheap option, bare minimum solution that can be absolutely fine for what you want. Especially as of firmware 1.49. It allows for MAP input, Wideband input, etc etc.

I think this relay+regulator trick does the job to be honest. The only thing is, I've read that if you force open loop too much, the car will throw a CEL. Typical!

[lamcote]

I'm guessing the tables are just spreadsheets he produced to illustrate what he was saying. Please feedback any results after the relay is fitted, people on Spyderchat seem to suggest just using the TPS won't be enough, be very useful to see what you achieve.

Edit: thinking it through I guess what they are saying is that it will still only go into open loop as a result of having both WOT and a certain (unknown and variable?) MAF load. Using the regulator will force open loop more often (which may help), BUT it still won't be triggered at the same repeatable point because the standard ECU still adds MAF load into the algorithm for closed loop and this will remain an uncontrolled variable.

What is needed is a method of entering open loop on demand at a point which is known, repeatable and not altered/controlled by the standard ECU. I wonder if this is what the EMU is capable of doing by clamping voltages?

[shnazzle]

Got all the kit for this little box-o-tricks. I'll build it tomorrow and post the diagram here

[jvanzyl]

Is it done yet???

[shnazzle]

Is it done yet???

Cpt impatient!
The only think I'm struggling with is earths.
Not sure where to get it from.
I'm not wildly experienced in electrics.

The easy part is the VTEC input and earth from the car. I was even thinking of just tapping into the earth of the e-Manage to make a cleaner  "harness" to the box-o-tricks.
The TPS side confused me a bit.

So I've got
Emanage Earth -> switch -> relay coil
VTEC (connectorB pin 14) -> relay coil
ECU TPS in (VTA pin 23)-> relay common
Relay normally closed -> TPS signal emanage harness side
Relay open -> voltage reg + in
Volt reg + out -> ECU TPS in

So, just the volt regulator negatives to figure out, and is it OK for the two different tps signals to go into the same pin on the ecu?
And just connect the two negatives on the volt reg?

[shnazzle]

Ok so this is what I've got. Bar one wire.

Volt reg IN + = IGN live
Volt reg IN - = earth (body)
Volt reg OUT + = fake TPS voltage to relay normally open pin
Volt reg OUT - = loop back to neg on IN. It's looped on the chip anyway.

Relay coil 1 = switch ACC (left pin)
Relay coil 2 = switch ground (right pin)
Relay Common = TPS input on ECU
Relay NC = feed from TPS sensor
Relay NO = fake TPS feed from volt reg out +



Wires top to bottom:
- wire "harness" to connect emanage earth and VTEC signal to the switch ground and 12v (middle pin)
- switch with wires to the harness and then to the relay
- TPS input on ECU
- TPS sensor output
- ignition live
- ground to body