Tyres and adjustable coilovers

[shnazzle]

I love my Meister R as everyone knows but what I really wanted was TRD sportivo shocks and springs.
They are a fare bit stiffer than stock with upgraded damping to match but still less harsh than the 5/7kg springs I have.
Alas way too much money imported from Japan.

It's a great setup for sure. But as you say, well into MeisterR or BC territory.
Hell, KYB shocks and Tein springs, and new top mounts was already pushing BC prices. That sealed the deal for me.

But I wouldn't use the logic the other way around. Having done it,  I wouldn't recommend people consider MeisterRs or BCs just because of the cost.
Technically should be: I want handling X, and coilies are almost the same price... Might as well!  s:) s:)

[Jrichards20]

OK at the risk of p***ing you all off even more with my refusal to accept that coil overs are best.......

I think a lot of what Chris has just described relates to having better quality damping, rather than stiffer springs, and that using standard springs with decent dampers could actually be a far better all round solution.

(......Puts tin helmet on)

Haha not  spiss piss spiss ed off, just a healthy debate  s:) s:)  I do agree that on the state our roads are in, stiffer springs may actually be slower. Some corners they won't some they will. 100% agree, which is why I said on one of my posts, I don't understand why the majority of people are asking about them. When really it doesn't matter anyway for road use. But you get on some swooping corners that are tarmac'd (spelling is atrocious) properly and flat without bumps then that's when they come into play. The coilovers on my car are  sfuck fuck sfuck ing horrendous over bumpy corners, most cars can go as quick as me, but a flat corner, they don't stand a chance.

And I travel more on flatter roads and places that have smooth sweeping corners because the coilovers prove their worth. All depends on the corner and types of road your on.

[ChrisGB]

OK at the risk of p***ing you all off even more with my refusal to accept that coil overs are best.......

I think a lot of what Chris has just described relates to having better quality damping, rather than stiffer springs, and that using standard springs with decent dampers could actually be a far better all round solution.

(......Puts tin helmet on)

I would agree. The superior damping accounts for reduced wheel patter, the stock setup does give good body control, it's lacking in secondary ride terms. Where the stiffer springs change things is in response rate, roll, squat and dive and the relationships between these properties. Stiffer springs work the shell harder, so bracing is a must IMO. Damping has to be matched to the stiffer springing.

Debating which is better is about as useful as the blonde vs brunette debate. They are just different and its down to personal tastes. On road, which is faster is irrelevant, involvement and confidence are more important than outright speed. Having said that, I am yet to encounter a situation where a stock setup would be faster, more involving or more confidence inspiring, but I do have softer springs than most coilovers kits and I run the damping quite loose. For me, the quick responses and transitions needed on B roads outweigh the downsides of a firmer ride, stock springs with better damping would be good too, but not for me.

Also consider that some people will go very stiff, maybe 6/8Kg springs with the damping wound up hard and these setups would IMO be too stiff for road use for me.

[lamcote]

What is secondary ride, I've never understood that phrase?

[ChrisGB]

What is secondary ride, I've never understood that phrase?

Primary ride is control of large wheel / body movements at low frequency, secondary ride is control of small wheel movements at high frequency / velocity. So going over a gentle rise and fall is a primary ride element, going over a small pothole or transverse ridge is a secondary ride element.

[Leethesparky]

Lots of great info on here....

I've had my bc's on since yesterday, and from reading this I realised something.
To get my car as low as it needs to be, on the front I had to wind up the spring quite a bit so I could drop the leg, this has put the spring under quite a bit of compression, at 10 clicks from soft it was very bouncy..
The info here made me realise I needed to harden the damping to counteract the already compressed spring, now after a play , at 20 clicks the bouncing has stopped.

The rear is ok as there was enough leg to drop without compressing the spring too much.

This maybe a stupid question and I may be barking up the wrong tree, as the spring is compressed quite a lot and the damping is turned right up, it is a very hard ride. Are there springs available that are shorter with the same rating, so they will not be under as much compression ?

[shnazzle]

Err... You're turning the wrong rings! The compression should not change at all when lowering.

[Leethesparky]

Err... You're turning the wrong rings! The compression should not change at all when lowering.

The leg will only drop so far before you have to compress the spring to drop it more.

[shnazzle]

Oh wow! How much are you dropping it? That's mental  s:) s:)

[ChrisGB]

I seem to remember the spec sheet I got with mine (drop shipped from the factory long before we had an importer in the UK, so it was some time ago) specified a maximum of 5mm preload.

[Leethesparky]

Oh wow! How much are you dropping it? That's mental  s:) s:)

To be honest all of the collars were already together when I got them, and the springs were under compression already. When I fitted them the car sat about the same height as my tein springs. I dropped them another 30mm.

These coilovers have been around the block a bit, and everyone has complained they are too harsh.
They were aryesboys originally. The fronts don't seem right., the spring seems too long. I should be able to drop 60mm without compressing the spring. Surely

[ChrisGB]

Again, from memory, maximum drop was specified as 40 of 45mm.

[Leethesparky]

Again, from memory, maximum drop was specified as 40 of 45mm.

Mmmm. That might explain it,  I will email bc, I've read in a few places they do springs to suit different applications, eg shorter

Edit. Emailed bc to ask about dropping 60mm and alternative springs

[ChrisGB]

KW V3 will give you -60mm, but they ain't cheap.

[Leethesparky]

KW V3 will give you -60mm, but they ain't cheap.

My tyres aren't helping, 40 profile. Going to change soon for wider and 45 profile. Should be able to go up 15mm on the suspension and maintain the look. The gt300 kit has such high cut arches.

Ride will be nicer too, I remember when I had tein springs and standard wheels, when I changed to the 17's it made more of a difference to the hardness of the ride than the lowing springs did.

Also going to have a proper look at the springs when I get time, I'm convinced that the springs on the front were already under too much compression even slightly lowered (there was no thread between the spring collars and the height collar). I am wondering if the springs are on the wrong way round, front/rear

[Leethesparky]

Just for info, bc sell the springs only for £29 each at different lengths, kg's.

I've found some 4kg/mm springs that are 180mm, I just need to check the part number on mine to see what I have but I'm assuming they are 220mm.

They also do 3kg, will these be too soft?

[shnazzle]

Just for info, bc sell the springs only for £29 each at different lengths, kg's.

I've found some 4kg/mm springs that are 180mm, I just need to check the part number on mine to see what I have but I'm assuming they are 220mm.

They also do 3kg, will these be too soft?

Tough one. The dampers are built to be mated with 5/7kg springs, so I'd be curious to see how much of the setting window on the damping would remain relevant. Could be that you'd need to set it to at least 10 or so and upwards. The rest under 10 would reduce your car to a pogo stick

[Leethesparky]

Just for info, bc sell the springs only for £29 each at different lengths, kg's.

I've found some 4kg/mm springs that are 180mm, I just need to check the part number on mine to see what I have but I'm assuming they are 220mm.

They also do 3kg, will these be too soft?

Tough one. The dampers are built to be mated with 5/7kg springs, so I'd be curious to see how much of the setting window on the damping would remain relevant. Could be that you'd need to set it to at least 10 or so and upwards. The rest under 10 would reduce your car to a pogo stick

I can see on a photo I have the part number of my rear springs. 62.200.006. So on my rear I have 62mm diameter 200mm long 6kg springs. From that I assume I have 62.220.004 on the front. But need to take the wheel off and look.
There is enough thread above the bottom of the spring to wind up to a shorter spring without the damper being affected.
I'm no suspension expert but I assume if I buy a shorter 4kg spring and wind the collars up to it, the damper will still have full travel and the spring will still be rated at 4kg/mm. So in theory everything should be the same and I will have the extra room to drop to my desired height.
But prob best sticking with the stock 4kg (assuming that is what I have) rather than 3kg

[shnazzle]

Indeed. I would assume the same

[Leethesparky]

Update...

Fitted shorter springs today. So dropped the front another 10mm. And have a lovely ride to match.

For anyone that has fitted coilovers and complains about the ride being to hard.
DO NOT preload the springs. Tighten the collars up to the springs but don't put them under tension.
If you need to lower more than the leg will allow do not preload the springs, it will ruin the ride. Buy shorter springs.

Learn a little about preload and damper adjustment.

I learnt from my mountain biking days, it's all the same theory.

But the main thing, before you complain about the ride check your preload. Mine are 4kg/mm springs. And tightening up the springs 4kg adds up fast to the point you need an elephant sat on the bonnet before the springs move.

[shnazzle]

Indeed.
Granted the instructions (aside from the shear logic of it) do say NOT to change the preload. A wise recommendation.