I've been Challenged!

[juansolo]

All depends on the driver, conditions and circuit.  

**IF** you had the same driver in all four cars who's competent in both FWD and RWD cars (and more importantly, is consistant), dry hot weather and a 'fair' circuit like Cadwell (half twisty, half fast) then, and only then would you have a fair comparison.

Weight and balance are in the Mr2's favour, but that's really it.  The RS is a heavily track biased car, has far more power and is hoogely competant.  Personally I think the RS would walk it.

The other two are too road based really, the golf particularly is a big heavy thing and not really suited to track work these days to be honest.  The Clio would likely fare better.  The track derivatives are awesome pieces of kit (and would arse everything here).  But again, we're talking about a road car here.  It'll probably make a good showing, probably around Mr2 territory.

However, in the Mr2 you *will* be having far more fun than they will.  Depends whether your ego can handle not being the fastest car around a track, and hairdresser jibes from people who've never driven a sports car.  Unfortunately there are many unenlightened souls out there who believe that the only thing that matters is how fast something is.  Which is bollocks.  I have driven some very fast kit in my time and they tend not to be the most fun cars in the world to drive.

However to some people its all about pissing competitions and I'm far too old for that sort of nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Well said that man

[juansolo]

But if you're serious about going ahead with this:

1/ Abandon any upgrades you have planned.  You'll be wasting your money.

2/ Set the circuit as Anglesey as it's the twistiest and has no straights to speak of.  It really does lean things heavily in your favour.

3/ Spend the money you would have spent on the Dastek on tuition at Anglesey.

I absolutely GUARANTEE you that you will go far, far quicker around the circuit with a standard car and tuition than you ever will with a bolt on chip, zorst and air filter.  To a dramatic degree.

Finally you'll have to book a TEST day that allows timing.  You will absolutely NOT be allowed to do this on a track day.  You will likely also need a licence and some timing gear (about £250 between the 4 of you).

In all honesty, if you do that, you'll wipe the floor with them.  Then again you would in a 1300 mini also as when you've got that ability, it's with you no matter what you drive.

[dieamond]

In the above statement, I always thought he has some track experience / training to beat those cars and drivers  :-) :-) :-)

[juansolo]

Also:

0-60 times are utterly irrelevant on track unless you're doing a standing start, which unless you're sprinting it, you won't be.

...and you're giving the R32 far too much credit.  It's a massively heavy road car.  The 4WD system is not in the same league as something like the EVO's and Scooby's run for track work.  Most of the time the car runs FWD only bringing the rear wheels into play when neccessary.  Nice for the road and economy, not ideal for the track.

Good track cars are inevitably not good road cars.  The more you bias something to be good at one, the less good it is at the other.  The R32 is a road car, the RS is a track car.  The RS is far more suited to the role and would have a definate advantage weight wise (less mass = better braking + handling provided it's set up right, which it is), it has a proper LSD for the job in hand, not some fudge based around the ABS system, and it has masses of torque.

Put it this way.  If I was to buy a FWD car that I had to use every day and wanted to do the odd track day, it'd be a Focus RS.  It's the most suited to the job currently.  If I could handle it being a bit more hardcore then I'd go for an Integra Type R.  Even more so to the point of it being a second car then a Clio Cup race car.  

You'll notice that on every upgrade there is actually a drop in power, but in each step there is also a big drop in weight and a big jump in bias towards track.

[juansolo]

In the above statement, I always thought he has some track experience / training to beat those cars and drivers  :-) :-) :-)

Made me think the exact opposite to be honest.  

Which is not meant as a dig by the way.

[dieamond]

come on, there's no way an inexperienced driver in a MR underpowered car can beat any of those 4 cars, even with inexperienced driver

It's so much easier to reach 80% of the potential of those car that it would be a clear defeat for MR-S in all cases

[juansolo]

It's all down to the driver.  What car they're in is largely irrelevent.

What I meant was the original post struck me as one that was written by someone with little track experience and that I didn't mean that as a dig.  Purely down to the fact that he wouldn't have been asking the question in the first place if he was a seasoned track driver.

[GSB]

I have to say that Juan is absolutley correct. Upgrades to the driver are far more effective than to the car...

I once saw the perfect example of this when a chap with a big mouth and a (very) fast car, had his arse comprehensively whipped by one guy in 1.0l Nissan Micra courtesy car, and another in a tired 'A' reg Long wheelbase Transit... You can have the quickest car in the world, but its useless if you lack the skills to exploit it.

[filcee]

Integra Type R.

Always regretted not buying one of those when I had the chance.  Probably everything I wanted in a car at that time - and the only thing it lacks now I've had the '2 is RWD.  Very nice bit of kit.

Back on topic now ....

[LeeUK]

I have to say that Juan is absolutley correct. Upgrades to the driver are far more effective than to the car...

I once saw the perfect example of this when a chap with a big mouth and a (very) fast car, had his arse comprehensively whipped by one guy in 1.0l Nissan Micra courtesy car, and another in a tired 'A' reg Long wheelbase Transit... You can have the quickest car in the world, but its useless if you lack the skills to exploit it.

Good, I shall be having far more fun exploiting my MR2's mid-engined characteristics, and be ahead of them.

I'm with you lot, the upgrade to the driver is by far the most benificial, thats why I had tuition with Andy Walsh as I said at the begining of the post   s:P s:P  .

But I'm still after a Dastek to sort out my fueling!