M1tch's long term 1ZZ build - Project 11

[m1tch]

You can't run a 1zz PFC with a MAP sensor.
They don't make a J detro kit for it.
Even there own MR2 Apexi turbo kit ran a MAF.

Hmm so I am guessing it just works on air flow - but how would the ECU know about the level of boost its running at as it might have the same air flow but at a higher pressure?

Don't quote me but you have to have external boost control maybe.
My turbo kit had a boost control solenoid don't think it had a map sensor.
Was using Unichip piggyback.

PFC will be fine for modest power levels and for what you paid with the Hako it was a steal.

I will be running an external boost controller anyway, I know that some ECUs actually have a boost/vacuum port built in to directly measure everything 'in house' so to speak.

PFC will be fine as you said for modest levels - NA and low boost on the stock engine, will be swapping out to a better ECU in the future with the built engine.

I agree that the ECU setup was a good deal, I still have that Dastek unichip in the garage which is premapped for intake and exhaust, will be interesting to see the differences in the 2 maps between PFC and Unichip.

Need to get a wideband next, I see that the LC-1 has been superceeded with the LC-2, might however just go with an AEM kit, as long as it has a Bosch sensor I am happy, might still check out the LC-1 though.

[shnazzle]

Nothing wrong with MAF-based mapping for turbo and external boost control. Hell, in the big boys leagues of Supras and GTRs they swear by MAF turbo setups.

Separate boost controller is better anyway

NA the PFC will blow the Dastek out of the water
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[1979scotte]

Didn't they swap the MAF out for a Supra one on the spyderchat 1zz rotrex kit?
I just think it is the 1zz MAF that suffers at high flow rates.

[m1tch]

The 1zz MAF is quite small, I know the Skyline guys swap out their MAFs for the 300ZX MAFs which I know from experience are massive lol - wonder if you could rebase the MAF values to run the same MAF sensor in a large diameter pipe?

[shnazzle]

Yes indeed. It will need swapping. The 1zz maf maxes out dead easy. Hence the need for a voltage cap on boosted applications. But that obviously only works on a piggyback to trick the stock ECU.

On standalone.. Definitely bigger flow maf.  s:) s:)  

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Essex2Visuvesi]

Yes the Apexi was a steal, but for the mods we have planned it wasn't really suitable anymore. I lost a few quid but it's not the end of the world.
I want to streamline my setup by having boost control and water injection controlled by the ECU and the PFC can't do that easily

[J03]

My Rotrex setup used a Scooby MAF, plug & play fitment. I can dig the part number out if needed?

[m1tch]

My Rotrex setup used a Scooby MAF, plug & play fitment. I can dig the part number out if needed?

That would be useful, will then check the bore of the MAF, guessing that MAF has the same connector and is calibrated for the MAF/tube diameter combo for the signal? Might look into how the MAF could be rescaled if running in a larger pipe etc.

[J03]

Denso 197400-2090

[m1tch]

Denso 197400-2090

Thank you - am I correct to say that I would need to re calibrate the ECU for it to correctly run this MAF, guessing the MAF has a wider scale for readings so guessing the voltage outputs won't be the same as the 1zz stock MAF?

[m1tch]

I have now got my PFC and am currently working on getting all of the software required onto a laptop ready for logging, I have a few maps for the 1zz, some came with the PFC and one is the MWR basemap which is a much better basemap than the stock Apexi map.

I have just ordered the new AEM X series wideband gauge which has the latest Bosch sensor (like the Innovate LC-2) which doesn't degrade or go out of calibration over time which should be good for the longevity of tuning using the wideband. The Apexi doesn't need to use the stock O2 sensors but can do to adjust the fuel trims a bit, will initially plug the PFC in with the MWR map and see what values I get via the FC Hako - checking knock levels as well.

The AEM kit comes with a weld in bung which I will look to have added into the pipework somewhere, might look to try and fit it pre cat as when I do go low boost turbo I will initially be running with the stock cat and only change the manifold and get a downpipe made to connect to the rest of the stock system.

Once the wideband is fitted (need to find a switched live and ground - I could use the radio harness as I have no audio in the car) I can then look to use the Co-Pilot autotune functionality to further optimise the MWR basemap to my car.

A slight bump in power and a reduction in weight should mean that I could run around a second or quicker down the 1/4 mile - next time I run I am tempted to run the stock ECU and then plug in the PFC to run back to back runs to see the difference.

I am going to start pulling together parts for a turbo upgrade on the stock engine probably over the winter with an aim to fit things next year - one of the PFC maps I have is for a turbo so I could look to use that as a starter but might just look to book some dyno time.

I have also found that the previous owner replaced the front 2 shocks with the rear 2 shocks being stock but all running on the Tein sport springs, the MOT stated that there was a light misting of the rear shock so might look to replace the pair of shock at around £100 each of bit the bullet and go with some coilovers.

I will also be looking to remove the stock evap canister on the right of the engine bay, I have ordered a tank vent breather, should remove around a kilo of weight from the back.

[m1tch]

I have now managed to connect up the PFC, I have the map that is currently on the PFC which was apparently a dyno tuned NA with a few breathing mods as well as the MWR map - I have tried both on the car and I can see from the MWR map that its fairly rough it seems and there are some quite 'blocky' figures - the VVTi table for example has almost a square island of normal numbers with a sea of 60s around it whereas the tuned NA map has some good graduation. Looking at some of the guides it would seem that around 55 is fully retarded in terms of VVTi advance so it looks like the MWR has quite a safe map in terms of ignition timing eg basically tuning off the VVTI advance in quite a few scenarios.

I have the wideband sensor now, just need to wire it all in, will initially run the O2 sensor in one of the stock manifold locations but will look to get the O2 bung welded in so I get all exhaust flow rather than just from 2 cylinders.

I also have a fuel tank vent breather used on bikes which are used to vent the tank as well as any anti spill valve - will be using that to replace the current vent setup for some weight reduction in the rear as well as freeing up some space.

I have also ordered a windows 10 tablet which I will be using in the car to connect up to the FC Hako with Co-pilot running along with the O2 sensor, this will mean that I have an additional set of gauges in the car and allow me to carry on logging the car to make adjustments to the map. Once I have run the car in a few different scenarios and am happy that the map is good for my car's setup I will look to run the standard PFC commander and keep an eye on knock levels etc - will take a bit of time to get the map dialed in though but it looks like I have a good basemap to go with.

I am also running the car with the stock ECU on board as well so that if I have any issues with the PFC I can simply unplug it and plug the stock ECU back in - will also look to do this at the drag strip next year so I can see what the difference is between the stock ECU with less weight and a road tuned map optimising the engine as best as possible.

I will then look to add a turbo probably next year, I also have a turbo map that I can use, however with the low boost setup I will look to get it to a dyno for better mapping, plenty of other things I need to sort out first though!

[Essex2Visuvesi]

Out of interest what was the issue with the PC-FC-Hako?
Might be useful to others  s:) s:)

[m1tch]

Out of interest what was the issue with the PC-FC-Hako?
Might be useful to others  s:) s:)

The driver I was using was too old and the latest driver makes the Hako come up with an error when plugged in - needed to installed a slightly backdated driver from 2007, I think the initial driver I tried was from 2006 - its all working fine on Windows 10.

[m1tch]

I have now installed a wideband O2 sensor in one of the OEM O2 locations and have run the car with the PFC to see what sort of AFRs the car is running - not good as its running very rich but that was to be expected as its running on a map from a dyno tuned NA which I am guessing has a better intake and exhaust system.

On cruise it runs at around 12.5:1 whereas on throttle it runs as rich as 9.5:1 - I was expecting lumps of coal to come out the exhaust! I can also see that its also trying to compensate the idle due to it running so rich plus it does bog down.

I am not too worried about it though as I can plug the HAKO into the wideband and get some autotuning done, it should cut out a fair bit of fuel from the map - only went on a short run with it as I didn't want to get bore wash due to how rich it was running or indeed foul the plugs.

[shnazzle]

Just as a reminder; what "stage" are you at now? Just wondering why it's so rich. The car does tend to run a bit on the rich side anyway

[m1tch]

Just as a reminder; what "stage" are you at now? Just wondering why it's so rich. The car does tend to run a bit on the rich side anyway

Currently just reduction in weight, drop in filter and stock TTE exhaust, I believe that the map the car is currently on came from a car that had quite similar mods so it should be close, guess the exhaust probably isn't flowing as well as an aftermarket unit?

Just having a few issues to get the HAKO to recognise the AEM wideband I have plugged in, I have followed the instructions on the site and matched with the wiring from the AEM but its not currently working so I can't autotune as of yet!

[shnazzle]

The exhaust isn't the problem (yet). The cat is still the main blocker. Assuming the pre-cats are out.
The stock intake flows nicely for peak power but I suspect it causes a tiny bit of resistance at initial throttle. I think that's why a few people (including me) noticed a bit more immediacy to the throttle when changing to a cone filter.

The PFC is said to really open up the capabilities and mid-range torque so curious to see how things go.

[m1tch]

The exhaust isn't the problem (yet). The cat is still the main blocker. Assuming the pre-cats are out.
The stock intake flows nicely for peak power but I suspect it causes a tiny bit of resistance at initial throttle. I think that's why a few people (including me) noticed a bit more immediacy to the throttle when changing to a cone filter.

The PFC is said to really open up the capabilities and mid-range torque so curious to see how things go.

I am running a completely decat manifold but yeah the main cat is still in there which would be a fairly big restriction, stock box should be fine.

Having an issue with trying to get copilot to recognise the wideband input from the Hako - its got voltage going to it correctly as I have just checked with a multi meter and it changes depending on the AFR shown if I blip the throttle, not sure if there is a hidden setting in Copilot to enable me to use the wideband?

[shnazzle]

Checked the fc-hako wb02 installation manual?

http://fc-hako.com/pfc/faq/#ref-q03

Quite a few do's and don'ts in there

[m1tch]

Checked the fc-hako wb02 installation manual?

http://fc-hako.com/pfc/faq/#ref-q03

Quite a few do's and don'ts in there

Yeah I have carefully followed that, checked the AEM manual for the positive and earth signal wires, there is voltage there but Copilot isn't picking it up so might just mean I need to restart of turn things on in a different order for it to pick up the voltage.

[m1tch]

Just picked up a spare engine, currently in the process of stripping it down ready to get the block bored and honed, need to also start looking for a C64 gearbox with LSD so I can get that rebuilt with the upgraded internals.

[m1tch]

I have just uninstalled the PFC and Hako from the car and I am now back running on the stock ECU, I need to get the car professionally mapped so I would rather run on the stock ECU for the time being, here is my thinking:

Running the car stock NA with stock ECU - probably about 135bhp due to mileage?
Running the car stock NA with PFC - probably around 150bhp - gain of say 10-15bhp
Running the car built Turbo with PFC - Probably between 220-300bhp - gain of 85-165bhp

What I am thinking is that I could get the car mapped professionally on the dyno with the car NA and get a small gain, or simply wait a bit and spend the same amount of money on mapping and get far more power out of the engine.

I am going to see how much more weight I can pull out the car or mod in the time being with the current power levels and still build up the engine in the mean time.

I am thinking of going this route:

Stock engine, NA with stock ECU
Built engine (with low compression pistons). NA with stock ECU - need to check this is ok to run, engine will be slightly down on power but will be run in
Built engine, turbo with PFC - will then get this mapped professionally

There is no reason why I can't run the boost ready engine in NA form, it will be slightly down on power but all of the parts to upgrade to a turbo - fueling, exhaust, chargecooler etc can be done with the engine in. I will also need to run the engine in anyway so simply bolting all the stock parts back up and run the stock ECU should keep it on a safe map in for the first 500 miles or so.

I came to the realisation earlier this evening that I had spent the last week or so sitting in the car trying to sort the car out on the PFC when I could have just been driving around in my MR2 enjoying myself  s:) s:)

I am going to 'make do' with the power I currently have which is ample due to the close ratio gearbox and LSD and work on a few bits on the car that make me love the car even more, here are a few bits I want to sort:

New gearknob
Wideangle rearview mirror
Sort out rattle in engine bay (cat heat shield I think)
Relocate battery
Change chain tensioner O ring
Refurb wheels
Touch up a few parts on the hard top in black (missed/masked a few bits I shouldn't have when spraying it)
Tidy up interior
Replace a few of the bulbs in the instrument cluster that have blown
Research subtle aero mods
Change gearbox oil
Remove soft top but retain stock seatbelts

[shnazzle]

Shame you're not doing the PFC. Was quite interested in seeing the gains on a stock setup. So far all pfc implementations on NA have been in combination with cams or the like.
But agree, need to drive it!

[m1tch]

Shame you're not doing the PFC. Was quite interested in seeing the gains on a stock setup. So far all pfc implementations on NA have been in combination with cams or the like.
But agree, need to drive it!

My car isn't 100% stock though as it has the standard mods of high flow air filter, decat exhaust manifold and TTE backbox, might look to try the MAF riser mod, car was running pig rich. I have the wideband though so I can see what the AFRs are like, I have a feeling that my engine doesn't have the best airflow through it though as even with the plug and play Dastek chip it was running rich etc.

I might try it another time, just can't get my head around using Copilot as its now old software and doesn't have much support anymore with quite a few of the support files not being hosted anywhere.

As mentioned in the title though, its a long term project and I am going to try a few mods of my own to see what you can do with the stock ECU.