Scared of Sliding

[Sian]

First I apologise, I have searched, seen and read everything tyre related.

I'm currently driving like an old person, especially on roundabouts and corners. I'm living in fear of the back end kicking out and causing an accident. I don't want to be a boy racer but I do want to enjoy the car rather than keep thinking I'm going to die! I've been driving over 10 years albeit a bog standard Punto but have done pass plus, IAM advanced test, skid pans, track days (little taster ones nothing serious) etc never been in an accident, love cars. Not entirely sure why I'm so worried, I think the mid engine thing is what bothers me.

It's a 2006 FL with the following setup (on when bought):

Toyo Proxes T1R all round, good tread all over.
Front 205/50 R 15
Rear 225/45 ZR 16

Pressure front 26 rear 32

Are the front tyres too wide? And as they are all wider should they have higher pressures than the MR2 manual suggests? It also has a hardtop on most the time, if that weight makes a difference.

It's worth pointing out this is my only car, I need to use it in all weather, all year round. Yesterday it did not like the rain (wasn't torrential, just normal) I could feel the back twitch a bit on a couple of corners despite doing an embarrassingly slow speed. It didn't feel anywhere close to actually kicking out but it was enough for my paranoia! Do I just need to grow a pair?   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[shnazzle]

Nope certainly not. If the back seems that twitchy, something is amiss.

Front tyres are indeed a tad wide but that won't back unmanageable. Pressure higher on the front will make it more prone to understeer so give it a try. The front going is not as bad as the back.

Alignment. It's important. A good 4 wheel alignment by a competent outfit.

Rear subframe integrity ok? That's what your rear suspension is connected to so it kind of needs to be in one piece  s:) s:)  

Worn bushes in the suspension arms on the rear.

Toyo T1R aren't the most confidence-inspiring tyres,but that's a personal preference. Others still swear by these.

..the list goes on.
Basically the story is (put in tape and press play).. the MR2 handling is very sensitive to tyres and general maintenance of the car. It's very different from a bog standard front wheel driven car.

But...do remember that you have no traction control or any of those fun toys that normally make it feel like the car is never going to be beyond your control.
You are the traction control.



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[JoeCool]

That's weird. You've got all the training ticks in boxes. And I run the same tyre sizes only in very much 'summer' rubber and even through the depths of winter the car felt stable, although I didn't provoke it, obviously. OD check the stuff Schnazzle mentions though.

I'd say perhaps it is just confidence in the car. They do feel quite twitchy and the rear does do  lot of the work, that's WHY they're fun to drive! It might be worth getting a geomoetry check, and when the T1R's are worn out it might be time for a more modern tyre compound....

But yeah, I don't think this will be car related. This is confidence related. These cars are as biddable as a labrador despite the mid engine. I can't say I've ever had the rear close to coming around on me unless I've been doing something truly stupid in a safe environment. They WILL let you know when the back end is approaching the limit, there is room for error there, they don't (in my experience) just snap, you have options to correct.

PErhaps some more track time in this car? If another carlimits day comes up I can't recommend them enough, they really sort you out.

[shnazzle]

And there you have it...two completely different answers and none the closer to an answer hahahaha

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[mikek]

+1 on all of the above.

Toyo's have softer sidewalls. We run Kate's at 28 front and 36 rear. She drives hers all year round with no issues. How old are the tyres?......

Also and most importantly you have to learn to drive a rear wheel drive car, it is very different to a point and shoot front wheel drive car, especially in the wet, cold etc.

[Bernie]

+1 on all of the above.

Toyo's have softer sidewalls. We run Kate's at 28 front and 36 rear. She drives hers all year round with no issues. How old are the tyres?......

Also and most importantly you have to learn to drive a rear wheel drive car, it is very different to a point and shoot front wheel drive car, especially in the wet, cold etc.

+ 1 ^^^^^^^

[K T M Rider]

Several other replies appeared as I was typing this, but here it is anyway.

Are the front tyres too wide?

probably. For £96 you could get a pair of 195/50/15 T1rs for the front fitted through tyre shopper and as the existing fronts are the stock PFL rear size - sell them to someone on here on here (or on ebay) for say £40 ?

as they are all wider should they have higher pressures than the MR2 manual suggests?

I think quite a few on here run at 36psi on the rear for stock sizes anyway. Have just put my rear (old / FL stock size) potenzas up from 32 to 36 and car feels quite a bit better.

Do I just need to grow a pair?   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Maybe some time getting to know the car on track / private road / airfield / would help here. Even just chucking it around a deserted supermarket car park........

[1979scotte]

Get full wheel alignment.
I have run 205 on the front with no issues. Grips like a limpet although I think the car feels better on 195.
The only time any of my MR2s have had wayward handling was when the tyre pressures were out. The tyres were past their best or my subframe was split in half.
And this is with considerable more power than stock.

[lamcote]

I have finally got round to replacing my dampers with a full set of KYBs. I can't believe the difference it has made to the way the car handles (and rides). The rear always felt VERY nervous but now, with all the new dampers on, the rear absolutely sticks like glue, even though it actually has less negative camber on the back with the new dampers. It literally feels like a different car. Are your dampers old?
(NB I had the rear dampers replaced before the fronts and that made the rear almost dangerous in the wet, so don't just replace the rear dampers whatever you do!)

[Sian]

Thank you all.  I only got the car a few weeks ago and think it's most likely a me issue.  I just wanted to check the set-up sounded ok to everyone first and it seems like it is.  

In the dry I can tell my confidence has improved a lot already but the wet knocked it back.  I must point out that other than a very slight twitch on the corner in the wet yesterday, the car has given me no reason for this paranoia. I had the worry before I got it. I bought the car off someone on here who had it as their everyday driver and asked them if the back end had ever spun out for them and they said no, not in the slightest.  They also seemed a little surprised that I'd became concerned about it and we both agreed it was probably only an issue when people were being idiots!

I'm thinking it's my car equivalent of when you Google that you have earache and half hour later have came to the conclusion that you have cancer!

Perhaps some more track time in this car? If another carlimits day comes up I can't recommend them enough, they really sort you out.

I would love to do that, I will have to keep an eye out.

Toyo's have softer sidewalls. We run Kate's at 28 front and 36 rear. She drives hers all year round with no issues. How old are the tyres?......

Also and most importantly you have to learn to drive a rear wheel drive car, it is very different to a point and shoot front wheel drive car, especially in the wet, cold etc.

I don't know the exact age of the tyres, I could dig the paperwork but def no more than 6 months, more likely 3, and have only done 2k on them.  I will try with that pressure setup, thank you  s:) s:)   When you say learn to drive rear wheel do you mean it comes with practice or should I actively look for videos etc for help?  I've already watched a couple but it seemed like opinion of whoever was doing the vid rather than fact so to speak.

If I don't feel any better about it all in a few months I'm going to book it into D1 Customs and just have it completely checked out to put my mind at ease. I will mention the mechanical reasons you guys have given me to look out for.

[jvanzyl]

D1 check will answer all the car related possibilities.  So that'll save you a lot of time!

[shnazzle]

D1 check will answer all the car related possibilities.  So that'll save you a lot of time!

+1

If Steve gives the ok. It's all you haha!

Age of tyre is stamped on the sidewall btw.

In form of 4 numbers. Week number and year

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[carolineasb]

I got a twitch from our TF yesterday but that was because I wellied it just a wee bit too much coming out of a junction also it had rained after a few dry days which had left a dust coating on the road  s:( s:(  otherwise she is perfectly fine!

Not long after we got Oldie, I spun her on a slip road 180 degrees in roughly the same weather conditions as above  s:( s:(  Then my hubby spotted she had wrong tyres on the back and also a hole in the rear subframe  s:( s:(  I've never spun a car before and I know it kind of knocked my confidence a bit but I now know how far to push the cars and the things that were wrong have been fixed!

[Enjay]

I spent a great deal of my early driving days in a Mk1 Capri.  If the back end wasn't sliding out something was wrong.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Nearly all the cars I have driven have been front engine, rear wheel drive and so the back end kicking out is not new to me at all and in a well balanced car, it feels very natural and controllable.  I much prefer it to what happens when front wheel drive starts to lose its grip.  

However, I find mid engined cars a bit different.  I find the slides a bit less predictable and sometimes understeer is just as likely as oversteer.  My Mk1 MR2 was very much like that and a friend wrote his one off in an unexpected understeer (admittedly in poor conditions).  So far my Roadster has been absolutely fine: excellent handling, nice and predictable, but I haven't ever pushed it to the extreme limits.

[Sian]

Thank you, it's good to hear other peoples experiences and opinions. I've upped the tyre pressures tonight to the 28 & 36 mikek suggested so I will see how I go with that.

Age of tyre is stamped on the sidewall btw.

In form of 4 numbers. Week number and year

I had a look for 4 numbers but couldn't see anything. Maybe it's different on toyos? I'm not too bothered to know it's age but just curious now! I will probably Google it in a bit.

[Ardent]

It will be there somewhere. will be somethnig like 4814
Generally it is the last 2 you are interested in. 4814. Tyre born in the 48th week of 2014.
Which would be ok as that would tell you your tyres are 3 years old. (ish)

[Sian]

It will be there somewhere. will be somethnig like 4814
Generally it is the last 2 you are interested in. 4814. Tyre born in the 48th week of 2014.
Which would be ok as that would tell you your tyres are 3 years old. (ish)

I genuinely can't find one. I've just been out with a torch and still can't find it. I know you probably won't be able see in enough detail on this photo but if you could say which area like top right that it should be written in? I googled and it said it should be next to the DOT writing but there's nothing there!

[attachment=0:3nog7486] ia0 20170723_163247~2.jpg ia0 [/attachment:3nog7486]

[SteveJ]

Look at the tyre on the other side of the car - the full DOT info is only printed on one side of the tyre so the one you have pictured is on the inboard side. If it's not visible on the other side, check the direction arrows are correct.

https://www.toyotires.com/tires-101/reading-a-sidewall

[2 of the left]

Any vehicle is good as the tyres that are fitted - With my pfl - Toyos 15's all round - No problems after full change after 6 years - On my fl I have Potenzas, Again no probs - Check the rear subframe It may be split!!

[Ardent]

SteveJ
+1

[Sian]

Look at the tyre on the other side of the car

Haha that sounds so obvious but I never would have thought of it! I looked at front and rear but both on the same side. I will look in the morning. Thank you.

Check the rear subframe It may be split!!

It probably is best to check the subframe but I assume I'll need to get under it for that, maybe even remove the nappy? It's kept on the road at the moment so not something I can do easily but many people have mentioned the subframe. I will look into it thank you.

[Ardent]

Welcome to the joys of 2 ownership.

Once sorted, rewards are measured in pleasure and size of smile.

And you cannot get that size of smile (automotively) cheaper than a 2.

Money parted with now, is best viewed as an investment, rather than, an expense.

[Sian]

Once sorted, rewards are measured in pleasure and size of smile.

Yes I have to say I already have quite a smug looking grin when driving it... Well unless it's raining!

No I'm not too bothered about money spending within reason. I just wish I had a drive so I could at least have a curious nose at things myself - not that I'd know what I was looking at! I've had a good nose from above and had the torch out for a closer look. It's quite interesting but I have no way to get under and look at the main bits. Ho hum, trying to find the balance between car spending and house deposit (for somewhere with a garage)   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Call the midlife!]

Once sorted, rewards are measured in pleasure and size of smile.

Yes I have to say I already have quite a smug looking grin when driving it... Well unless it's raining!

No I'm not too bothered about money spending within reason. I just wish I had a drive so I could at least have a curious nose at things myself - not that I'd know what I was looking at! I've had a good nose from above and had the torch out for a closer look. It's quite interesting but I have no way to get under and look at the main bits. Ho hum, trying to find the balance between car spending and house deposit (for somewhere with a garage)   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

I'm fortunate as I have a garage but also a fairly high kerb on the roadside out front, if I just want a quick shufty underneath I can usually just put one side up on the pavement/kerb and wriggle under! Gives the neighbours something to talk about if nothing else!


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[Sian]

I'd probably do that if the kerb was higher and not on a main road!

Well finally figured out the tyre age, it was on the opposite side of the car.  All made in 2016 so that's good!