Polish inside headlight

[supersai101]

Hi all

So like every mr2 out there my headlights were very yellow and cloudy. I bought a 3m restorer kit and spent a good couple hours with the various grades of sandpaper and polish on a drill attachment. They are a million times better than before and from a few feet away look like new. But up close or in certain light they still look a bit milky. It almost looks like it could be from inside the lens.

Has anyone else needed to polish the inside of the light? If all else fails I was thinking of just getting new headlights but I can't believe how expensive they are, £200 each!! Bought a set of polo ones brand new for a friends car last year for about £25 each! Anyone know where I can aftermarket ones for less?

But yeah, has anyone polished the inside / have pics?

Thanks!

[Ardent]

The search is your friend.
Others have split the lights.
Not saying it is without risk, but can be done.
Include the word "oven" in your search parameter

[supersai101]

Yeah been searching for a while, seen the guide on how to do it, some people asking the same thing but nobody actually ever confirming if polishing the inside helps

Thought i'd ask again as those posts are a few years old now

[steveash]

I opened my headlights this week to paint the facelift chrome bit and polish the inside of the lenses. There is a slight milkyness to the lenses and polishing the inside didn't help. I think it even needs a very fine polish on the outside or the milkyness is within the plastic.

Opening the lights is straightforward but don't overdo the heat. 100 degrees for 10 minutes is plenty. The butyl sealant is very sticky so I'd advise having some help when separating the lens. Goo Gone will remove smeares if you do get it on the lens as I did.

[supersai101]

Yeah I opened one up today and polishing the inside didn't help. I think the outside may need sanding a lot more then polish like hell. Or like you said it might be within the plastic itself in which case nothing we can do.

Has anyone bought used headlights before? What's the going rate for used ones? Been messaging some breakers to see if they have late model ones in stock which has seen less years in the sun but want to make sure I'm paying the right price.

Thanks

[1979scotte]

Yeah I opened one up today and polishing the inside didn't help. I think the outside may need sanding a lot more then polish like hell. Or like you said it might be within the plastic itself in which case nothing we can do.

Has anyone bought used headlights before? What's the going rate for used ones? Been messaging some breakers to see if they have late model ones in stock which has seen less years in the sun but want to make sure I'm paying the right price.

Thanks

It's all pot luck.
An early car that's been garaged or had UV sealant regularly applied to the lenses will be in better nick than a later car that's been out in the elements 24 7.

I would only look to Dean at Rutland or Dick at MR2 RR for breakers.

[supersai101]

Yeah it is a weird one. My passenger one came up perfectly with no sanding just polish pad on a drill with rubbing compound on the outside. The driver one I've sanded like hell. Polished like hell. Even done the inside and still milky... at least I only need to buy 1 headlight!

[ManInDandism]

As to cost of secondhand - Dean had 2 passenger side only ones up for sale last week. One at £85 and the second at £65 with the lens on the former looking in much better condition.

I had water/condensation in one of mine which was irritating me but has now removed itself with the warm weather.  Not easy to get hot air into it via a hair dryer with it still in the car and too much effort required to remove it just for that.  I cleaned the outsides up with a some Halfords rubbing compound and find that Autoglym Extra Gloss Protection brings them up brilliantly, however 'eyebrows' are still quite yellow.  I think it's a gamble getting secondhand ones - unless I saw them in the flesh, I cant' be sure they'll be better than what I have. So it's stick or twist @ £216 each for new ones.  I wonder how much they cost to manufacture? If they were say half that price they'd shift considerably more units!     

[Bossworld]

Condensation seems to be something that effects them all, I ended up just replacing both lights on mine.

[Enjay]

I guess I'm just old school (or maybe a glutton for punishment) but I have managed to rescue some really quite yellowed lights (not just on my 2) with little more than plastic polish and a lot of elbow grease.  I have some good stuff made by "Mothers" and I also got a kit off of Amazon years ago that has some UV sealant in it.  You don't need much, so it has lasted for years.

I have not done the insides of my 2's lamps, but I have split 4 MR2 headlamps in total in the oven (I had one set with good backs and damaged lenses, and one set with good lenses and damaged backs, so I made a good set out of them). 

I did one manually with a hot air gun.  It's possible, but I really would not recommend it.  The fact that it is very hard to get heat applied evenly makes the job far more difficult and makes damage far more likely.  Heating in the oven worked very well.  The only reason I didn't do it that way initially is that my oven isn't big enough.  Fortunately, the one in my mum's sheltered accommodation was perfect.  The trickiest part was explaining to a deaf woman in hear eighties why I needed to cook my headlamps in an oven that she had never even used for food. 

[supersai101]

Yeah I did end up using the oven method in the end, I tried a heat gun first but just couldn't get the heat distributed evenly. 7 mins in the oven at 130c did the trick. But no amount of sanding / polishing will get rid of the milkiness. The other one isn't milky at all and polished up fine, so I guess the previous owner who had it for years and year, must have parked it in such a way that one light was in the shade? Who knows!

I have messaged Rutland just waiting for him to check if he has any in stock. Hopefully he has a good one. Yeah I just plainly refuse paying £200+ for a headlight, that's just extortionate mark up when you can get headlights for other cars for a fraction of the price, and they must make money on those!

[mr9]

Bump.

Any details on splitting the headlights?

1) I am after  some used LHD headlights for 6 moths while I'm driving in Europe - these seem hard to come by.
2) I was going to treat the car to some new headlights

I am thinking of buying new LHD lights - and then when returning to the UK stick the new lenses on my old RHS housing.
Can they be resealed with a bit of sealant DIY?

[The Other Stu]

Yes. But you'll need to be careful.
Around 15-20 minutes in a pre-heated oven at around 90c. You should be able to split them then (clearly, they'll be hot)

[Joesson]

Bump.

Any details on splitting the headlights?

1) I am after  some used LHD headlights for 6 moths while I'm driving in Europe - these seem hard to come by.
2) I was going to treat the car to some new headlights

I am thinking of buying new LHD lights - and then when returning to the UK stick the new lenses on my old RHS housing.
Can they be resealed with a bit of sealant DIY?

For guidance, not that I would want to try this, have a look in the How To's -

"Take the headlights apart"

[Dev]

Yeah it is a weird one. My passenger one came up perfectly with no sanding just polish pad on a drill with rubbing compound on the outside. The driver one I've sanded like hell. Polished like hell. Even done the inside and still milky... at least I only need to buy 1 headlight!

I have rescued enough headlights even ones that are rough without any sanding. The one I did a few weeks ago looked like the defect was on the inside but it wasn't. Sanding is too aggressive however these kits tell you to sand because most drills do not have the cutting power and high RPMs to burnish the plastic surface to optical clarity.  The polish needs to be the disintegration type where the abrasives get progressively smaller and finer the longer you work it.

 If you get a cheap rotary polisher and pad the whole job can be done within 5 minutes per light and maybe a second pass if its in really bad shape. You have to keep in mind that you cant do it with the headlight off the car because it needs to be secured and you cant let the polish dry out. Spraying a little water helps with lubrication as you go along.
 
The local owner was planing to buy a new set of lights because the cloudiness looked to be on the inside but even to my amazement it was on the outside and just needed to be burnished.
 If you don't want to invest in this process take it to a professional detailer that uses a rotary polisher they should be able get it done for a small amount.

[The Other Stu]

Why is sanding too aggressive? I mean, the way I've done it, I've probably taken 100th of a millimetre off the outside of my lights and they look brand spanking new.

I did mine with wet and dry by hand though. No way I was trying to sand using a drill. That'll end in tears with the light getting hot (and therefore permanently milky)

[Dev]

Why is sanding too aggressive? I mean, the way I've done it, I've probably taken 100th of a millimetre off the outside of my lights and they look brand spanking new.

I did mine with wet and dry by hand though. No way I was trying to sand using a drill. That'll end in tears with the light getting hot (and therefore permanently milky)

 The problem with sanding which is provided in these home kits is that you are removing more material then you have to and I have never had to with some of the worst lenses I have come across that looked like it needed to be sanded but the rotary was successful. These DIY kits were made to be aggressive to get to a place where everything is evened out by taking off more material and then you work your way up going finer but in doing so you remove too much material. From what I read is bad for the polycarbonate or lexan because the haze will come back more aggressively in time.
  Using a drill with sanding pads is also a big no. Using polish with a drill is a better first step most of the time because thats all that is needed but if you follow the instructions on these kits they will have you use sandpaper first which is not needed and also extremely time consuming.

   The drill is ok for 70% of most headlights but it doesnt have enough RPMs and torque to break down the polish to remove the surface oxidation layer more effectively/quickly  and add some heat to burnish the lens to optical clarity that only a rotary polisher can do. When using a rotary polisher the results are quick and most of all better than other methods with the least amount of material being removed. Some of the really cheap Rotary polishers come from China and can be bought for very little money these days so its not an expensive as an option as it use to be.
 
 Let me show you an example from this Youtube video. 

[The Other Stu]

The problem with sanding which is provided in these home kits is that you are removing more material then you have to and I have never had to with some of the worst lenses I have come across that looked like it needed to be sanded but the rotary was successful. These DIY kits were made to be aggressive to get to a place where everything is evened out by taking off more material and then you work your way up going finer but in doing so you remove too much material. From what I read is bad for the polycarbonate or lexan because the haze will come back more aggressively in time.
  Using a drill with sanding pads is also a big no. Using polish with a drill is a better first step most of the time because thats all that is needed but if you follow the instructions on these kits they will have you use sandpaper first which is not needed and also extremely time consuming.

   The drill is ok for 70% of most headlights but it doesnt have enough RPMs and torque to break down the polish to remove the surface oxidation layer more effectively/quickly  and add some heat to burnish the lens to optical clarity that only a rotary polisher can do. When using a rotary polisher the results are quick and most of all better than other methods with the least amount of material being removed. Some of the really cheap Rotary polishers come from China and can be bought for very little money these days so its not an expensive as an option as it use to be.
 
 Let me show you an example from this Youtube video. 

You're preaching to the converted on the polisher. I have a DAS6 polisher, but it wasn't hitting the spot with polishing some particularly yellow and milky lights, even done on a bench.

Certainly, sanding (by hand) wasn't time consuming. The example in my thread took less than 25 minutes.

Either way, I'm offering an opinion.

[Dev]

The problem with sanding which is provided in these home kits is that you are removing more material then you have to and I have never had to with some of the worst lenses I have come across that looked like it needed to be sanded but the rotary was successful. These DIY kits were made to be aggressive to get to a place where everything is evened out by taking off more material and then you work your way up going finer but in doing so you remove too much material. From what I read is bad for the polycarbonate or lexan because the haze will come back more aggressively in time.
  Using a drill with sanding pads is also a big no. Using polish with a drill is a better first step most of the time because thats all that is needed but if you follow the instructions on these kits they will have you use sandpaper first which is not needed and also extremely time consuming.

   The drill is ok for 70% of most headlights but it doesnt have enough RPMs and torque to break down the polish to remove the surface oxidation layer more effectively/quickly  and add some heat to burnish the lens to optical clarity that only a rotary polisher can do. When using a rotary polisher the results are quick and most of all better than other methods with the least amount of material being removed. Some of the really cheap Rotary polishers come from China and can be bought for very little money these days so its not an expensive as an option as it use to be.
 
 Let me show you an example from this Youtube video. 

You're preaching to the converted on the polisher. I have a DAS6 polisher, but it wasn't hitting the spot with polishing some particularly yellow and milky lights, even done on a bench.

Certainly, sanding (by hand) wasn't time consuming. The example in my thread took less than 25 minutes.

Either way, I'm offering an opinion.

I never meant to come off as adversarial on various methods just another option or opinion. If your method works based on the condition of your lights that was problematic where you had to wet sand thats great. Most people (not you and I) are buying these headlight restoration kits which are not needed and from what I have seen they do not get optimum results but its certainly better than where they started so they are somewhat satisfied but in my opinion they waste half a day getting it done with subpar results.

 Regarding the DA polisher I have one, a very good one in fact and they are fine but they cant do what the rotary can which is burnish by adding heat with disintegrating the polish and adding pressure by bearing down not stalling the motor. To do this the light has to be on the car and not on a bench because you need very high rpms and some pressure which would cause an accident. Fortunately the plastic used is very forgiving unlike paint so you don't burn it but if you tried it might. I have done some cars that had what looked like yellow etching between the layers and with the rotary it came out after worked it in on a second pass.

 Here is the video I was originally looking for. I disagree with the video presenter using a compounding pad and the polish. I use a polishing pad and a better quality polish and can usually get a better result. 

 

 
 

[steveash]

I think sanding is really needed when there is lacquer on the lens. My old Audi had lacquered lenses (from new) that had become chipped and looked a mess. The only way to remove it was plenty of wet and dry paper and hard work before a polish. I didn't attempt to re-lacquer

The Toyota lenses don't seem to have any lacquer or at least mine don't. Despite multiple sessions with a DA polisher though they still have a milkyness, particularly at the top. I read here somewhere that FL lights might be worse for this as the chrome inside reflects more light back into the plastic.

To be honest, mine don't look bad but it's a detail that irritates me so they'll have to be replaced eventually.

[Dev]

I think sanding is really needed when there is lacquer on the lens. My old Audi had lacquered lenses (from new) that had become chipped and looked a mess. The only way to remove it was plenty of wet and dry paper and hard work before a polish. I didn't attempt to re-lacquer

The Toyota lenses don't seem to have any lacquer or at least mine don't. Despite multiple sessions with a DA polisher though they still have a milkyness, particularly at the top. I read here somewhere that FL lights might be worse for this as the chrome inside reflects more light back into the plastic.

To be honest, mine don't look bad but it's a detail that irritates me so they'll have to be replaced eventually.

The problem with the DA polishers are they are not very effective for this kind of work. Actually a high speed corded drill using just the pad edge would work better.

 That milkiness will come out with using a rotary polisher easily because it has the power to remove paint from a car if you are not carful so this kind of surface oxidation is very easy to tackle. When detailing a car a DA is very forgiving which is what you want if the paint is fine but for any kind of serious paint correction or body work you need a rotary but most of all you need someone that has experience otherwise it can be disastrous or even dangerous causing personal injury if the pad is not properly lubricated and it slips.  However using a rotary polisher for the lights is forgiving that most people can do them as long as they don't use them at their max speed.

 The nice thing about the rotary polisher on this kind of plastic is it only removes the oxidative layer evenly and then you can stop once the result is achieved. Once the oxidation is removed what I will do is add water to dilute the polish and turn up the speed, by doing so it burnishes the surface and leaves a gloss that resembles glass. 

 I also do this for the tail lights which most people don't do because the haze is not as visible since the lenses are red but you will be surprised at how big of a difference it makes once completed.

[bobbe]

Sorry to bump this thread, but @Dev - what kind of polish do you use for this? Is there any particular brand or type that you find works best? What should I be looking for?

[Dev]

Sorry to bump this thread, but @Dev - what kind of polish do you use for this? Is there any particular brand or type that you find works best? What should I be looking for?

 Almost any polish will do considering the plastic is very forgiving. You can also use heavy cut compound polish as it will work faster. You have to make sure you spray with water on both the pad and the lens to keep it lubricating otherwise it can grab. Work it in and dont stay on any one spot for too long.

[bobbe]

Okay, thanks! In that case I'll pick up whatever heavy polish from Halfords and get Amazon's cheapest rotary polisher in the hope I can get through both headlights before its motor burns out

[Dev]

keep the rpms slow at first until you get use to it. Spray some water as you work to keep it lubricated. Once you figure it out you can finish each lens as little as 5 minutes. Those cheap rotary polishers should last a lifetime if all you do is polish headlights.