TheTyrants 1zz Turbo - and not turbo now!

[thetyrant]

Got it mostly back together last night after late shift in garage, just had to refit bumper etc today and been out for a quick drive just now and thankfully smoke screen has gone

I initally fitted the new actuator that came with turbo but its stronger than the one that came with kit it seems as after getting a few miles i tickled into boost and it tried to shoot off like a scalded cat! lol...looks like  it was trying to do nearer to 10psi so i backed off quick and will check logs later see what i did,  nipped back home and swapped actuators over which was fun with hot exhaust/turbo!, at least ive got a spare for higher boost later down the line

Will get some more miles on before i give it any pain make sure its all nicely bedded in.

Ian

[thetyrant]

Just checked the datalogs from run out earlier with the stronger actuator, boost cut was activating which surprisingly was set at only 8.7psi from original map that came with ecu/kit etc, it actually kicks in 1.4psi before the limit so most boost it made today was 7.3psi and it felt a good bit quicker than the 5.5psi i was seeing before, cant wait to try 10psi once i get a clutch sorted, which will probably be my xmas project all being well.

I have been looking at clutches and i know a few people run the Corolla compressor oe spec clutch which i am pondering also, however im concerned its not going to be enough of an upgrade and im trying to find out if its actually any different to the normal 2zz 190 celica/corolla clutch, does anyone have more input on that ?

Exedy do am upgraded street organic clutch as well as paddle type, even the upgraded organic im wary of as they often have firmer centre springs which can cause an awful rattle up on deceleration, i would rather avoid that if i can as it gets on my tits. Paddle clutches are just awful unless on track so dont want that!

 On my old Evo2 i got a place in OZ called Raceclutch to make me a custom clutch which used a stock sprung centre with custom friction material and higher clamping loads, it was an amazing clutch capable of holding 400ftlbs, full throttle launches and was quiet in operation as well as lasting 40k miles!   expensive though but i might ask him if he does one for the 1zz/2zz as an option. 

Helix or Competition clutch are other options but i dont know if they suffer from upgraded spring rattle as well which seems common on uprated units, i dont know why these companies think its a good idea to upgraded the centre springs even on mild upgrades like this, has anyone run a Helix on CC on here ?

Ian

[Petrus]

A clutch must be able to transfer torque.
As such a 2ZZ clutch, although fit for the 190 hp, may not be able to hold the torque of a turbo 1ZZ with 190 hp.

Manufacturers should specify the torque a clutch and pressure group can hold.

[s12vea]

On my old TTE turbo running 10psi I ran the compressor 2zz clutch oem feel and still going strong today with present owner Greg.

My current setup running 9psi GT28RS circa 250bhp is running helix it's more than up to the job and prob the best of the uprated clutches without being too harsh but far from oem feel.

Gary is running the compressor clutch on his and handles the torque currently. If I could swap to that myself I would just to have the oem feel.

I think it will depend how the car is driven I guess

[Gaz2405]

Yeah in running the compressor clutch with 230ftlbs if I remember correctly..edit

220ftlbs when rolling roaded,  but was at 10 psi then.

Tracked it at 12-15psi 😂

[s12vea]

If the clutch continues to hold out Gary I will change mine lol

[Petrus]

On the pages of phoenixfriction the rating of many clutches they stock is given under the specs header ( the clutch rating should have a 20% safety margin; i.e. should be ok at 120% the spec.)
They also list the other cars the parts are used on.

https://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-ymm_product_list.aspx

[thetyrant]

On my old TTE turbo running 10psi I ran the compressor 2zz clutch oem feel and still going strong today with present owner Greg.

My current setup running 9psi GT28RS circa 250bhp is running helix it's more than up to the job and prob the best of the uprated clutches without being too harsh but far from oem feel.

Gary is running the compressor clutch on his and handles the torque currently. If I could swap to that myself I would just to have the oem feel.

I think it will depend how the car is driven I guess

Thanks for the input, how do you find the helix for coast down noises ?  also you say far from oem feel is that just heavy or grabby etc.

Cheers
Ian

[s12vea]

Coasting zero noise

A fair bit heavier and a little grabby, Once the clutch is warm it makes thinks  a tad smoother.

I would go compressor clutch

[thetyrant]

Yeah in running the compressor clutch with 230ftlbs if I remember correctly..edit

220ftlbs when rolling roaded,  but was at 10 psi then.

Tracked it at 12-15psi 😂

Did you find any spec that shows the 2zz compressor clutch is any different to n/a 2zz unit ?  most places im looking they say they are same but its not 100% cler.

Neither car has the torque of a turbo 1zz but especially the n/a 2zz which isn't really any different torque wise to a n/a 1zz at 133lbs, compressor 2zz is 170lbs so getting closer but turbo is going to be putting out 200+ lbs so while the 2zz compressor might cope initially be interesting to see how it works out longterm.

Ive been down this road many times and getting a clutch that can cope with torque, driving style, last well,drive nice and not cost earth isn't always easy!

[thetyrant]

Coasting zero noise

A fair bit heavier and a little grabby, Once the clutch is warm it makes thinks  a tad smoother.

I would go compressor clutch

Hmm thank that's good on the noise front as that's a pet hate of mine, I don't mind little heavier and grabby if it can handle the abuse, I do sprints so launching does happen all be it as sympathetic as I can be, last thing I want is to fit compressor clutch only to burn it out after a couple of events, I will ponder it though.

[Gaz2405]

Yeah in running the compressor clutch with 230ftlbs if I remember correctly..edit

220ftlbs when rolling roaded,  but was at 10 psi then.

Tracked it at 12-15psi 😂

Did you find any spec that shows the 2zz compressor clutch is any different to n/a 2zz unit ?  most places im looking they say they are same but its not 100% cler.

Neither car has the torque of a turbo 1zz but especially the n/a 2zz which isn't really any different torque wise to a n/a 1zz at 133lbs, compressor 2zz is 170lbs so getting closer but turbo is going to be putting out 200+ lbs so while the 2zz compressor might cope initially be interesting to see how it works out longterm.

Ive been down this road many times and getting a clutch that can cope with torque, driving style, last well,drive nice and not cost earth isn't always easy!

No couldn't find any specs,  but for £125 it was worth a pop!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F252076656049

[thetyrant]

Ok some experiments today with the tune now ive got some miles on the turbo, short story ive switched off the VVT for 2 reasons first i want to concentrate on fuel/igniton tuning and the VVT makes this more complicated as its altering the VE of engine in midrange, secondly i wanted to see the difference it makes in torque with the idea i can reduce initial torque to help clutch cope until i get that uprated.

Initial findings are that without the VVT ive lost around 10ftlbs in midrange which you can feel, then boost creeps higher in revs and it catches back up so mission accomplished on helping clutch cope and still a rapid little car

Also new turbo is pumping a little more air at top end as boost is creeping up more, on old turbo it was around 4.5psi until over 5k when it slowy creeps upto 5.8psi at topend, new turbo is similar at low revs but creeps upto 7.5psi at top of revs, i dont think this is VVT related as its past point of when it retarded back to zero on old map, i guess i could add in some VVT advance at top to help reduce boost but at moment at least in 3rd gear its well within my current limits which is keep it under 10psi for time being, have yet to do a full throttle pull in higher than 3rd gear so may have more creep then, we will see.

Ive done once of my Virtual Dyno comparisons as below for those interested, as you can see extra boost has pushed wheel horse power upto 185hp and brought peak torque of 155ftlbs in much later in revs as boost builds.

Still got some work to do on fueling and ignition maps but its getting there slowly.

[s12vea]

Good progress on the tune, keep the torque progressive and the clutch should last another day

[KRAMSNEHPETS]

I am runnig a standard genuine Toyota 2ZZ clutch with no issues

[s12vea]

I am runnig a standard genuine Toyota 2ZZ clutch with no issues

Really.

In that case I'm changing mine

[thetyrant]

I am runnig a standard genuine Toyota 2ZZ clutch with no issues

I am runnig a standard genuine Toyota 2ZZ clutch with no issues

Thanks, what torque though and at what rpm? Rotrex power delivery is much easier on clutches but you must have a big unit on there at power in your signature

[KRAMSNEHPETS]

Have to look it up! Think it came in at about 220. Yes, power delivery is very linear so not as harsh on the clutch as a turbo would be

[thetyrant]

Have to look it up! Think it came in at about 220. Yes, power delivery is very linear so not as harsh on the clutch as a turbo would be

Would be interested to see a dyno graph if you have one? Bet it's an animal

[s12vea]

I can confirm marks 2 is a beast!

[thetyrant]

I've been pondering what I can do to improve things further on install, I think adding some connections to intake pipework to allow me to fit a recirculation dump valve to help turbo life, also want to plumb rear rocker cover vent to pre-turbo side as well to help suck out fumes like it does in stock layout.

Currently I've got the front rocker PCV connected via a catch can to the one fitting on intake pipe tube pre-turbo, this gives it vacumn like stock but without risk of boost pressurising crank case, like it would if left attached to inlet manifold, I know most just add a extra 1way valve into stock layout but I think this is better solution as less risk if valve fails.

Rear rocker vent I've just got a filter on like most do to let it suck/vent air as required, however on car I removed turbo from this was piped to intake tube (where I now have pcv attached) which I think is better for reducing crankcase pressure and sucking out fumes same as oem layout.

Going to mean getting someone to weld some fittings onto pipework as my alloy welding is not so good! I have a local guy in mind so will speak to him next week.

Running a recirculation dv will stop the turbo stall on lift off which sounds good but not good for turbo health longterm.

Also Im thinking of fitting larger oil return to sump, currently it an-8 as kit came with it but i think is borderline especially due to angle of sump fitting.

Will update once I have progress on it all, meanwhile more mapping to do

[thetyrant]

Got a crappy video of it on my phone today so i could hear what it sounds like from outside, its not bad considering how little the silencer is on there!  hopefully link below works...

[Petrus]

Thanks.
Not bad at all.
Goes to show how effective a muffler the turbo is. Logical too as all the energy of driving the supercharger comes from the exhaust gas.

[thetyrant]

Much larger sump return fitting arrived today now i just need to fit it and make a new connecting pipe from turbo, probably overkill but im sure the current -8an fitting into sump is borderline flowing enough especially when engine is cold and oil is thicker, if it was straight down into sump it would be fine but its got to turn 90degress into the sump and as the sump side are tapered make it slightly uphill for last part as well  which is not helping, so i want to be sure its right before driving it anymore hence the larger fitting etc.

Typically another huge project as come along as well, as in moving house!! so i need to get this sump sorted before i downsize to a smaller garage at the new place which will be ok once ive sorted it but initially will be just throwing everything out of my current double garage in there so no room for tinkering until i get it all sorted out.

I was going to do clutch over xmas as wasnt planning on moving until after then but things changed,  probably be the new year now before i get settled into new place and sort garage out so i can change clutch but we will see

[thetyrant]

Busy one today, sump off and larger oil return fitted then cleaned it all up and sealed it back on,i had to modify my existing oil return tube for a more direct route to sump but im still not 100% happy with that and will fabricate a new one as soon as I can, refilled with oil and quick test drive to warm it though and all seems ok so far, a was good to be back in for blast with some boost

Refitted some of the heat shielding at sides of exhaust area but think I will leave off the big shield though.

Also fitted new accessory belt as it was looking a sorry state and long overdue a change!

That's probably it for awhile now as I pick up keys to new place next week so that will keep me busy for a little while, as soon as I get chance im going to fabricate the new oil return pipe though as want that done asap so its not to think about again.