TheTyrants 1zz Turbo - and not turbo now!

Started by thetyrant, November 4, 2019, 12:42

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thetyrant

Not done a lot on this due to house move over past few weeks but have had a couple of blasts out over xmas on the odd dry day we got,  still puts a smile on my face even at low boost :D

I have been working on plan to fit a Windows Tablet install in the dash cubby then i can run the Link software and use it instead of adding gauges, managed to pick up a 7" Linx tablet over xmas so been working on that past few days and got all software installed and working ok intially, also been trying to get USB over wifi working with little usb hub gizzmo to free up USB port but not having a lot of luck, its working just not stable enough due to some latency issue so im going back to cable instead for now, just need to get a bracket made up so its all held secure in cubby, reason for using this tablet is it just fits nicley in cubby when opened so nice and stealthy will get pics once i have something to show..

Turbo wise ive still not fully happy with oil return setup and need to get on with that, now the house move is sorted and garage kind of organised im hoping to get the car inside then i can resolve this problem, replacement turbo is leaking/smoking now so no doubt the oil feed/drain issue isnt working as it should!, although damage could of been done before i fitted the larger pipework but either way it all needs looking at before i sort the turbo seals again, will probably get my original unit refurbed then its ready to go on once im happy with oil supply/drain.

Once thats sorted i can make a plan on clutch upgrade so i can turn up the boost....then i will need to look at intake cooling but thats further down the line.

:)

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

thetyrant

OK car is squeezed into garage as i need to get this oil drain issue sorted so i can start to have some fun in the car and plan next stage of mods.

When i originally fitted the Turbo kit i wasnt happy with the angle that the turbo core sits at, basically the oil drain which should be directly at bottom in 6 o'clock position is not and infact at quite an angle, as it was like this on previous car and all pipework made to suit (also looks same on pics of TTE kits ive seen which uses same turbo) i presumed it would be ok... WRONG! :)  what i should of done is sort that angle out and modify any pipework etc that needed doing right at the start, but i just wanted it all on there so i didnt and so have been fighting this issue of oil backing up in turbo then leaking/smoking.

I replaced the turbo to rule out the seals in that as it was an unknown and looked well abused so hoped replacement  might cure it but it didnt help enough, initially it look to of but after some time the leaking/smoking started out of new turbo so oil drain needed sorting,  i didnt want to pull the turbo again and it had all supposedly been working ok on previous car i hoped improving/enlarging oil drain pipe and fitting into sump would be enough, this helped a little but not enough so turbo angle needs sorting once and for all which should sort the problem.....i hope!

I was going to replace the turbo again at same time but after speaking to turbo supplier he said the seals should be ok if i sort the draining issue as ive done so little miles etc, so hopefully dont need another one and i thought this was good of him as he could of just sold me another which is why i contacted him.

So ive made a start pulling turbo this week and should have it all off this weekend to sort it, it was nice to see no oil in the air out to intercooler pipes so its only getting into exhaust turbine,  hopefully once turbo drain angle is corrected and pipes redone it will be all good.

Will update as i make progress and hopefully get some pictures which might better explain whats going on.
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

1979scotte

This draining issues sound exactly like the ones that I had
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

thetyrant

Quote from: 1979scotte on January 25, 2020, 00:14This draining issues sound exactly like the ones that I had

Was yours just the sump fitting being too low or did you have other issues ? 

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

1979scotte

I never figured it out. I thought it was a dodgy turbo bought a new turbo sold the car and got my V6.
The new owner had the same issues and traced it back to the oil return. He has sold it now I believe.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

thetyrant

Quote from: 1979scotte on January 25, 2020, 09:51I never figured it out. I thought it was a dodgy turbo bought a new turbo sold the car and got my V6.
The new owner had the same issues and traced it back to the oil return. He has sold it now I believe.

Probably same issue as mine, just had turbo off and done some measuring it turns out in stock saab clocked position the oil drain is 20degrees away from the optimal straight down position, at first i though it was 35deg comparing it to manifold flange so set it at that and refitted, but it was a touch too far due to engine ports being a slight angle, more measuring and turbo back off for more tweaking and now its within a degree or so now of 6 o'clock so should be lot better.

Ive done some research on turbo drain angles and seems +/-15degs is maximum recommended by most but of course more straight down the better, of course rest of pipework plays a part and the TTE kit has a very long roundabout drain pipe which will help a little compared to mine which was pretty much straight down to sump. What i dont know is how the TTE or SP240 kit came when new but i would hope they clocked turbo slightly from standard saab postion to get better draining, as my turbo has been off and rebuilt before i got it at least once who knows who set it all up like it was, when i fitted the recon unit i just checked it was same as what came off and mainly looked at compressor outlet so it matched pipework,  i didnt measure core postion but looks to be the same so maybe when old turbo was rebuilt it was done to saab spec and then problems started, 5-10degrees difference would make it worse for sure.
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

thetyrant

All back together apart the return pipe down to sump, ive chopped up old one and done a mock up for new turbo angle, i could weld it all back together but i want as few joins as possible so just going to get some more tube then i can fab up new pipe and im good to go, fingers crossed once this is done that will be the smokey/leaky turbo issue sorted!  if not might go back to NA lol 

Not the easiest thing to get picture of but below gives you an idea of difference with old setup being top picture.

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

thetyrant

OK back on the road today finally, was delayed by getting some tube to fabricate the oil return but all done :D

Im about 80% happy with oil return setup now, new pipe down from turbo came out well but reason for not being 100% happy is the fitting into sump, its a bit longer than i would like and quite a way for oil to travel at near level with little drop so not ideal, and may pull sump again and make better solution but hopefully it will do for now, certainly no sign of leaks or smoke on warm up in garage so fingers crossed that's it sorted, if not only thing left to do is improve sump fitting but be nice if i dont have to pull it off again!

Also decided i need to improve the breather situation as concerned crankcase pressure is higher than it should be which wont be helping oil return either, turbo kit came to me with rear rocker breather/vent re-routed to the turbo intake pipe and the side of rocker cover PCV breather was using stock pipework to throttle body vac source, im not sure if there was an extra 1 way check valve or it was relying on PCV to stop boost entering rocker cover as i didnt remove that pipe to see, i didnt want to rely on PCV or a cheap ebay check valve so went a different way!

What i initially ended up doing was fitting a small filter on rear breather/vent which seems a common solution others have had success with, i then used the port on turbo intake pipe to connect the PCV valve via a catch can as i thought there would be enough vacuum on the intake pipe to help suck out vapours and reduce pressures, but checking it today there is very little vac at low engine speeds at least which is no doubt due to the large diameter intake pipe and slow air speed, basically there has not been much helping reducing pressure in crankcase which wont have been helping my oil return issues!!

I did pan to revist the breathers after initial setup but with everything else ive not got around to it until today.... so ive now connected PCV back onto original vac pipe from throttle body via my catch can and a extra 1way check valve, which i pulled from servo feed pipe on an Subaru Legacy in scrap yard today, i had the brain wave this morning about using one of these so went down to scrappy and got a few from various turbo cars which should be way more reliable than cheap ebay tat!   i now have the subaru check valve and PCV in that breather line so hopefully keep boost out the crankcase and suck out the pressure/vapors which i wasnt doing before!

Rear rocker vent i connected back to turbo intake pipe as per the way kit was on the previous car, at least there is some vac rather than breathing to atmosphere which will be better, however i am  going to get another check valve so i can connect it back onto its original vac source on throttle body (currently blanked off) as that is large/strong feed so makes sense to get it connected back up to reduce crankcase pressure, will add another catch can in that pipe as well to keep intake clean.

Hopefully get out for a test drive tomorrow see how the new oil drain and breather setup works :D
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

thetyrant

Pulled car out garage this morning and let it warm up, no leaks visible and no smoke out exhaust...result! :D...took it for a fairly gentle test drive 15miles or so with minimal boosting and still no smoke or leaks....so far so good!

Going to go out for a more brisk run now and few mapping tweaks so will see how we go with more sustained boosting....fingers crossed!

:)

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

thetyrant

Not a huge amount to report but had some coolant issues which turned out to be nothing but the sensor misreading!,  found this after changing thermostat and bleeding it a million times!  still at least i know its all good now :)

Got my In-car dash cubby PC display pretty much sorted for viewing data from the Link Ecu, save having lots of gauges i can just run the PCLink software and configure whatever i need to display on there as well as use it to tweak map if i want, bit tricky on small screen but can be done,  just need to run the USB cable and tidy bracket up and its all done, will get pic of it all when i remember.

Next job is trackday prep as got myself booked on for Croft on 9th March, mainly just servicing including change oil/filter then strip/clean/grease and bleed the brakes and quick bolt check and that should be it.

I am a little concerned about noise with the current small carbonfibre silencer and while it sounds reasonable level to me and a really nice tone i would rather be safe than risk issues at noise testing, also im not a fan of loud cars and prefer the stealthy approach, plus be nice to reduce drone for longer trips so ordered up a lot of exhaust parts which arrived today, went for biggest silencer i can fit in without changing cat pipework and its a 18" long x 6" diameter 2.5" bore item from everyexhaustpart on Ebay, its their extra quiet version which means it has a trick centre perforated tube with a gap in middle, sort of like 2 silencers inside 1 can from what i can see, so that and few elbows, bit of pipe and some mikalor clamps should be pretty straightforward i hope, just need work out best place for hangers once mocked up on car and make those, pic below of what i have so far...

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

thetyrant

Exhaust is coming along, sounds nice and good bit quieter on initial fire up so happy so far just need a road test, got it mocked up on car with clamps then removed to tack weld exit pipework so it doesnt fall off once it gets hot!, also ive not got any stainless wire or gas for my mig so will get someone who is better at welding stainless to finish it off once im happy with it doing the job, tacks and clamps should hold it for now.

For the hangers i used 6mm stainless threaded bar and made like a long exhaust clamp with one end upto the rubber hangars, think i will upgrade to 8mm though as while it seems solid enough looks a bit thin.

Gained a few kg as the carbon one is very light but needs must, think new is 3kg heavier so sure it wont be a problem.



Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

thetyrant

Had a good exhaust road test yesterday inbetween the awful weather!, so far its perfect for me with a nice sporty sound but much lower in overall volume than the carbon, pottering about at normal speeds and in town much easier to be stealthy also incar noise/drone much reduced as well so more pleasant place to be on longer journeys, still lets you know its a straight through system though once you get on loud pedal and still crackling on overrun so all good :D

Will see how it develops over time as they always sound different after a few miles on them.

Will get a sound clip when/if it ever stops raining for more than 5 minutes, i suspect it will sound a bit quiet on video but we will see, also need to get a slot with my stainless welder guy to finish off fabrication now layout is proven, im tempted to change it to bumper exit but then remember im trying to keep car looking stock as possible so maybe not, easy to do in future though if i wanted :)

Did some mapping tweaks when i was out as well, was a bit rich on top end so leaned that back and need to get out to try the tweaks today.

Quick pic below of the  Cubby mounted Windows Linx7 Tablet running PC link, still need to drill a hole to route cables out of sight but you get the idea, tablet is mounted in one of these tablet mounts that is designed to go on car headrest posts for kids in back, i then made a fold down bit of pipe in the cubby to clip it to so easy to remove and  bracket folds flat to allow cubby to closed.

Shame i cant get the USB to Wifi hub working consistently but at least with direct cable connection i know its best it can be, just need to keep an eye on tablet battery and thats why i havent got taskbar hidden on current layout, it seems to last for a fair few hours once fully charged so shouldnt be too much of a problem just fully charge it before trackdays etc, also has a cable splitter into tablet so i can switch to either charge or data for connecting to Link Ecu so easy enough to flick between each, unfortunately you cant do both with this tablet.

Beauty of this setup is i can monitor live data from Ecu/Engine without need for extra gauges, need to wire in a oil temp and pressure sensor to Link inputs as future project then i can add those to layout, im able to log directly onto tablet as well at touch of a button which is handy.
I have a small Bluetooth keyboard/mouse pad if i need to do more but its fiddly so will keep using laptop for mapping but it is possible to do everything on tablet if needed.


Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

Gaz2405

One of the advantages of running an ecu that isn't from the stone age!! 😂
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

thetyrant

New exhaust all sorted and working well, ended up getting the exit elbows and pipework after silencer welded as didnt trust the clamps to hold it together due to tight bends etc, also changed the hanger after silencer to 8mm bar as the 6mm was a little weedy, ive left pre-silencer hangar as 6mm but for now ive got some 8mm bar left to replace that as well when i get a minute.

 Sounds is really nice i think, cold start and low revs is quiet which is good for my neighbors, pootling around its pretty stealthy and has a nice deep note in midrange when you give it a little right foot, doesnt get loud with revs either and just sounds good to me :)
In a perfect world i would like it as it is with option of even quieter for longer trip as there is some drone when your coasting down off throttle, i think only way to get rid of that is go for a chamber silencer like the OEM ,but of course thats more restrictive, will see what it noise tests at next week.

First Trackday since Turbo install is this coming monday at Croft so will get it noise tested there,  forecast looks reasonable at least half the day so hopefully get a few dry laps to see how it performs now, will be keeping a close eye on Intake Air Temperature as that is weakest link i think, fingers crossed its within acceptable limits for me and clutch holds up ok.

New front discs and Carbotech RP2 pads going on this weekend in prep for the trackday, not a compound we usually fit on these light cars but i wanted to test it so will see how it performs compared to the XP8 in there at moment.

Fingers crossed its a fun day an will try and get some videos :)
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

JB21

Coming along nicely. Any vids on track?

You selling the carbon backbox?

thetyrant

Quote from: JB21 on March  6, 2020, 16:55Coming along nicely. Any vids on track?

You selling the carbon backbox?

Will try and get some video at croft, just need to find my camera after moving house!

Not sure what to do with carbon back box will prob keep as spare for now but may sell in future.
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

JB21

Quote from: thetyrant on March  6, 2020, 20:12
Quote from: JB21 on March  6, 2020, 16:55Coming along nicely. Any vids on track?

You selling the carbon backbox?

Will try and get some video at croft, just need to find my camera after moving house!

Not sure what to do with carbon back box will prob keep as spare for now but may sell in future.

No worries. Dibs on the carbon exhaust if you do come to sell. Where did you buy it from by the way?

Good luck tomorrow. Let us know how the RP2 pads work 👍

thetyrant

Quote from: JB21 on March  8, 2020, 09:41No worries. Dibs on the carbon exhaust if you do come to sell. Where did you buy it from by the way?

Good luck tomorrow. Let us know how the RP2 pads work 👍

Will let you know if i decide to sell carbon rear box, it was made by PTR exhausts in Brackely for Silverstone Performance and this particular SP turbo kit, its a bit of a work of art so might polish it up and hang it house or if i get carried away loosing weight of car i know there is 3-4kg to be saved by refitting it :D

RP2 Front pads and new Bremtech discs went on yesterday, havent fully bedded pads yet as didnt want to work the new discs too hard right from the off and generally do 50 miles or so of light/medium braking to temper the discs before subjecting them to high temp of pad bedding, got that done yesterday and will give pads a proper workout today but so far from the braking i did yesterday they are going to work well....very well :D

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

JB21

Quote from: thetyrant on March  8, 2020, 10:01
Quote from: JB21 on March  8, 2020, 09:41No worries. Dibs on the carbon exhaust if you do come to sell. Where did you buy it from by the way?

Good luck tomorrow. Let us know how the RP2 pads work 👍

Will let you know if i decide to sell carbon rear box, it was made by PTR exhausts in Brackely for Silverstone Performance and this particular SP turbo kit, its a bit of a work of art so might polish it up and hang it house or if i get carried away loosing weight of car i know there is 3-4kg to be saved by refitting it :D

RP2 Front pads and new Bremtech discs went on yesterday, havent fully bedded pads yet as didnt want to work the new discs too hard right from the off and generally do 50 miles or so of light/medium braking to temper the discs before subjecting them to high temp of pad bedding, got that done yesterday and will give pads a proper workout today but so far from the braking i did yesterday they are going to work well....very well :D



Exactly why I wanted the exhaust, weight saving. The OE 1zz box weights a tonne. Any chance of links to the parts for the new box? 😁

Pads sound promising, may go for them if good on track. Will be ordering some XP pads either way in coming weeks.

thetyrant

Quote from: JB21 on March  8, 2020, 10:10Exactly why I wanted the exhaust, weight saving. The OE 1zz box weights a tonne. Any chance of links to the parts for the new box? 😁

Pads sound promising, may go for them if good on track. Will be ordering some XP pads either way in coming weeks.

Sure, below is what i bought to make new exhaust and all this was from everyexhaustpart on ebay, i got them to expand some of elbows so i could slip joint it all where needed, was just going to slip joint and clamp it all but ended up getting exit pipework welded to ensure it doesnt fall off!

Should be same if fitting to stock cat flange just you would need a flange either made or cut off old stock silencer box.


90 degree 2.5" 63mm Tight 1D Mandrel Exhaust Bend T304 Stainless Steel QTY 3
Item price £ 32.00
Quantity 1 set of 3
Item number 112222275939


Universal Extra Quiet 6" Stainless Steel Silencer Muffler Box With Extra Baffles
Item price £ 60.00
Quantity 1
Item number 112677916229


T304 63.5 MM 2.5" APPROX STAINLESS STEEL TUBE EXHAUST PIPE @ 500mm
Item price £ 12.99
Quantity 1
Item number 352221401405
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

JB21

Quote from: thetyrant on March  8, 2020, 11:20
Quote from: JB21 on March  8, 2020, 10:10Exactly why I wanted the exhaust, weight saving. The OE 1zz box weights a tonne. Any chance of links to the parts for the new box? 😁

Pads sound promising, may go for them if good on track. Will be ordering some XP pads either way in coming weeks.

Sure, below is what i bought to make new exhaust and all this was from everyexhaustpart on ebay, i got them to expand some of elbows so i could slip joint it all where needed, was just going to slip joint and clamp it all but ended up getting exit pipework welded to ensure it doesnt fall off!

Should be same if fitting to stock cat flange just you would need a flange either made or cut off old stock silencer box.


90 degree 2.5" 63mm Tight 1D Mandrel Exhaust Bend T304 Stainless Steel QTY 3
Item price £ 32.00
Quantity 1 set of 3
Item number 112222275939


Universal Extra Quiet 6" Stainless Steel Silencer Muffler Box With Extra Baffles
Item price £ 60.00
Quantity 1
Item number 112677916229


T304 63.5 MM 2.5" APPROX STAINLESS STEEL TUBE EXHAUST PIPE @ 500mm
Item price £ 12.99
Quantity 1
Item number 352221401405

That's great Ian, thank you. Would you say this set up is considerably lighter than the stock unit?

thetyrant

Quote from: JB21 on March  8, 2020, 11:22That's great Ian, thank you. Would you say this set up is considerably lighter than the stock unit?

I would think so but will weigh my stock backbox and let you know, new one with all pipes is around 7kg from memory
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

thetyrant

I didnt weigh mine but apparently stock silencer is 12.8kg according to Spyderchat :D
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

JB21

Quote from: thetyrant on March  8, 2020, 11:29I didnt weigh mine but apparently stock silencer is 12.8kg according to Spyderchat :D

That's great. I'll just use the flange of my blown cobra back box.

thetyrant

Quote from: JB21 on March  8, 2020, 11:33That's great. I'll just use the flange of my blown cobra back box.

From memory the stock pipework is just under 2.5" diameter so 1st elbow from this to silencer will need to be different size each end if replicating what ive done, im sure when i was initially planning this on n/a motor i found someone who did a reducer elbow so it would slide over stock pipework after cutting off flange going upto 2.5" into silencer, im sure the people i got my parts off would do one as they were very helpful for me.

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

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