TheTyrants 1zz Turbo - and not turbo now!

[thetyrant]

This morning ive been fettling a few small jobs ready for tomorrow.

 First up was to redrill turbo actuator bracket to give arm a little more clearance from exhaust pipework out of turbo,  plenty of clearance when cold ( 5mm or so) but once hot its nearly touching it with way exhaust expands/moves!  now ive got about 10mm clearance now so hopefully that will be enough and once hot later i will check.
 
I plan to re-route exhaust route from turbo to cat in future as while its a work of art and nice compact route from turbo to down under subframe its all very tight!...will bring it from turbo exit flange straight back over top of subframe then down and into cat, i noticed on Dick Sloans SP turbo setup it goes that way.

Also modified the bracket for my fire extinguisher mounting to go onto passenger seat front mountings, this bracket has been in about 4 of my cars now! each time with small tweak it does the job

Drilled a hole in dash cubby side so i could route my usb cables (1 charge, 1 data) for incar PC to tidy up wiring.

Found my little HD bullet cam and trying to find a way to mount incar nicely, no joy yet might be a job for next time or get new camera as its not great one, will stick it on outside for some footage if i remember

[thetyrant]

Brakes bedded in this afternoon, good run out including a blast up and down my favourite local road Hartside pass   had some fun with a Focus ST on way back down think he got a shock when he couldnt shake me off, i would of passed him if i had known road was clear

Pic of front wheel after bedding in, quite a dusty pad but man does it stop the car

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And a few after cleaning all ready for trackday tomorrow

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[Gaz2405]

Brakes bedded in this afternoon, good run out including a blast up and down my favourite local road Hartside pass   had some fun with a Focus ST on way back down think he got a shock when he couldnt shake me off, i would of passed him if i had known road was clear

Pic of front wheel after bedding in, quite a dusty pad but man does it stop the car

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And a few after cleaning all ready for trackday tomorrow

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Thye do make quite a fun sleeper car don't they 😂

[thetyrant]

Back home in 1 piece after pretty successful trackday at Croft   managed just over 100 track miles and car never missed a beat, track stayed dry most of the day with just a few light showers towards end of afternoon but it never really got wet on track and was even quite warm out of the wind when sun was out.

Started day with some concerns about blue smoke out the back on sighting laps but it was just coming out the hairpin on start/finish straight, looks like oil getting passed seals in turbo most likely due to the oil return im still not 100% happy with, i just kept sessions short (6-7 laps) and kept an eye on the oil level and had no other issues, i did have  to top it up a little at lunchtime but never got below half on the dipstick so nothing terrible but needs sorting.

Im not sure if its the turbo seal itself leaking from when i had previous revision of oil drain to sump and breather setup, or the oil drain is still not just flowing enough and its backing up in turbo, i think its probably both so first job is get sump off and make a belt and braces drain setup to ensure there is no more problems there, will probably replace turbo again as well as its cheaper than refurbing but will see how oil drain works out.

Intake temps were my other concern and while as expected it was higher than ideal it wasn't terrible, in the morning with sun out i was sat mostly around 45c IAT until i started to really rev it out (which makes more boost due to creep) then IAT just started to nudge 50c but seemed to peak at that and didnt go any higher, in the afternoon sun had gone in so slightly cooler air and 40c was about the norm with occasional peaks of 45c if using all the revs/more boost so not bad considering the little air to air IC in front of gearbox.

Of course will be much better for trackdays with a water to air chargecooler as discussed but at least i know for now that i can at least get by with this IC and on the road its plenty capable, also for sprint events i do it should be ok as well so no urgency to change it until boost goes up at later date once i do the clutch.

Other than above car was spot on, front tyres are well past their best but held on ok just felt a bit squidgy, suspension again coped well but the soft Tein springs are not firm enough for really pushing on track so another project for future, capable enough just a bit soft.

Noise test on new exhaust went well at 92db so quieter than i tested there with totally stock car which was 93db!

Fuel consumption after 50mile drive over to scotch corner services to top it up before getting to track worked out at 38mpg so happy with that, it was mostly off boost but did have to climb over stainmore and lot of dual carriageway speeds, in total i used a full tank of fuel +£10 topup to get 60miles there then do 100 track miles and 60miles back home, not bad considering.

[JB21]

Back home in 1 piece after pretty successful trackday at Croft   managed just over 100 track miles and car never missed a beat, track stayed dry most of the day with just a few light showers towards end of afternoon but it never really got wet on track and was even quite warm out of the wind when sun was out.

Started day with some concerns about blue smoke out the back on sighting laps but it was just coming out the hairpin on start/finish straight, looks like oil getting passed seals in turbo most likely due to the oil return im still not 100% happy with, i just kept sessions short (6-7 laps) and kept an eye on the oil level and had no other issues, i did have  to top it up a little at lunchtime but never got below half on the dipstick so nothing terrible but needs sorting.

Im not sure if its the turbo seal itself leaking from when i had previous revision of oil drain to sump and breather setup, or the oil drain is still not just flowing enough and its backing up in turbo, i think its probably both so first job is get sump off and make a belt and braces drain setup to ensure there is no more problems there, will probably replace turbo again as well as its cheaper than refurbing but will see how oil drain works out.

Intake temps were my other concern and while as expected it was higher than ideal it wasn't terrible, in the morning with sun out i was sat mostly around 45c IAT until i started to really rev it out (which makes more boost due to creep) then IAT just started to nudge 50c but seemed to peak at that and didnt go any higher, in the afternoon sun had gone in so slightly cooler air and 40c was about the norm with occasional peaks of 45c if using all the revs/more boost so not bad considering the little air to air IC in front of gearbox.

Of course will be much better for trackdays with a water to air chargecooler as discussed but at least i know for now that i can at least get by with this IC and on the road its plenty capable, also for sprint events i do it should be ok as well so no urgency to change it until boost goes up at later date once i do the clutch.

Other than above car was spot on, front tyres are well past their best but held on ok just felt a bit squidgy, suspension again coped well but the soft Tein springs are not firm enough for really pushing on track so another project for future, capable enough just a bit soft.

Noise test on new exhaust went well at 92db so quieter than i tested there with totally stock car which was 93db!

Fuel consumption after 50mile drive over to scotch corner services to top it up before getting to track worked out at 38mpg so happy with that, it was mostly off boost but did have to climb over stainmore and lot of dual carriageway speeds, in total i used a full tank of fuel +£10 topup to get 60miles there then do 100 track miles and 60miles back home, not bad considering.

How were the pads?

[s12vea]

Great first shake down

[thetyrant]

How were the pads?

Awesome as expected and more stopping power than my tyres but still able to control it no problem, lifespan is the key on this compound so more of a longterm test on that one, i just wanted to see if it would work on a light/low powered car and it did, XP10 is probably a better starting point for you though i think.

[thetyrant]

Small update, obviously with the lockdown car has hardly moved for past few weeks and with all the free time on my hands now im off work ive been pondering next move!

I have considered pulling off the turbo and selling it then going back the NA route for more serious track build (when they open!) possibly 2zz as well, however its more just for something to do than anything else as i love the building as much as the driving! and with no driving to do i dont not what to do next lol

However for now i want to stop this smoking issue which seems to be getting worse before i give up and pull off the turbo, ive yet to compression test engine but im sure its ok as never had issue before going turbo and ive not done a lot of miles or ran much boost into it to damage anything, most likley culprit is still the turbo backing up oil from the return to sump as ive still not got it as good as i want it so thats what im working on now.

Got the car up in the air today to take some measurements on this sump issue and now have a plan, im on fabricating a new sump fitting to give a much better flow path into sump, will get some pics and details when i get further on with it all but fingers crossed this will be last time i have to remove the sump to sort it!

Wish me luck

[thetyrant]

Ok new fitting welded up by welder man, took longer than normal due to lockdown but he has it done and back with me now

Oil is ordered so hopefully that arrives as planned tomorrow and ive made a start stripping car down ready to drop sump off now.

Couple of pics showing the old fitting into sump and the new one next to it, new one ive made with a angle of approx 30deg relative to the flange that will mount to sump back face, this will give me a slight downhill into the sump whereas at the moment its slightly uphill due to way the sump face angles towards front of car, i dont understand why more people dont have issues with this when just putting a fitting straight onto that back face as the angle is all wrong, i guess it depends on length of pipework from turbo and oil flow etc, ive read TTE revised their oil drain pipe to make it longer i think?  whcih was to help with this as people were having smoking turbos, mine is a short direct run down from turbo so any restriction/uphill is soon backing oil into turbo.

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Also please to see intercooler entry is nice and clean with no oil getting through that side of turbo, or engine breathing to heavy into it from rear valve cover vent which is plumbed in pre-turbo to intake pipe.

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Ok time to get this sump off and clean everything up to get this fitting in place, ive made a fishplate with captive nuts to go on inside face of sump to hopefully clamp everything nice and tight, need to trim it once sump is off though.

 

[JB21]

2ZZ all the way Ian, you know deep down its the only real option 

[thetyrant]

2ZZ all the way Ian, you know deep down its the only real option 

Haha yes but im too concerned about the quality of used engines these days (hence why i went turbo really) and dont really want to rebuild,  i know i will get carried away doing that and spend a fortune building a 500hp capable motor lol!
 
Will see what happens when i get this sump back on, shame i cant really drive it to test but should be able to get a reasonable idea with a few runs to shop and back, enjoying working on it again even if it is the nasty job of removing sump and cleaning it all up.

Got it all apart before stopping to feed, sump is cleaned up and ready to drill 2 new mounting holes, fishplate to go on inside im just tweaking now to make sure it all fits nicely.  Im hoping i have enough sealant left as my local halfords is shut so will be a mission to get more locally, got half a tube so should be ok as its the fat end of tube left and thin end did last change

[thetyrant]

Getting there now, its so hot out the back  in sun where ive been working on it ive had to come in for a drink and cool off!

All sorted, cleaned and painted just waiting for it to dry then i can bolt/seal the return fitting on, probably leave fitting sump onto the engine until tomorrow so i can give it another clean out to be sure its spotless.

Will get some pics once assembled but below is comparison of fittings ive used..

Top one is a -10an fitting i put in 1st to mate upto the Blue AN fitting elbow that came with kit, kit came with EP sump that this blue fitting was onto but i sold that sump so bought the black bulkhead fitting to go into stock sump, this was too small ID imo at approx 9.8mm and angle not great either, might of been better in EP sump but it was a bit low down on that as well.

Bottom one is one ive been running since i removed above, this is a 19mm OD hose tail fitting with 13mm ID, not bad just wrong angle, i was hoping the larger ID would be enough to offset the angle but seems not and quite a long fitting as well which didnt help.

Middle one is what ive fabricated from a piece of 4mm plate and 19mm OD x 16mm ID tube, as you can see the angle is much greater and while it looks very steep when bolted onto sump and car on level ground its not that steep into sump, pipework from turbo is made from same size tube and just a silicone elbow joins them up, size wise i think im well covered and hopefully with the better angle we get rid of turbo leak/smoke.

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[thetyrant]

Final progress report for today, did a mockup on the car and needed to tweak length of tube on both turbo drain and sump fitting, got it all sorted and then new fitting sealed onto sump ... now just need to final clean and bolt up onto engine tomorrow and fill her up with oil

Few pics below, 1st end on view of difference between old straight fitting and new angled one.

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Next some pics of it mocked up on car and one showing inside fishplate etc..

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Last one, final mockup after trimming tubes and my silcone fluro-lined elbow in place

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[thetyrant]

Todays jobs all completed, sump refitted with new sealant and turbo drain pipework all connected back up with new gasket at turbo end, new oil filter on and sparkplugs removed to give them a quick visual inspection and check gaps, they look nice and even across all 4 with good colour.
 Going to leave it overnight for sealant to go fully off then tomorrow fill up with new oil thats just arrived and see what happens!

Pipework...
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Plug..
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[thetyrant]

OK update time!  yesterday filled up with oil then warmed it up in garage to check for oil leaks, all seems good on that front which is a bonus , took it for a test drive to the shops and was able to put it through its paces a little but its still blue smoking! although it does seem less than before it still does it when you boot it from low revs, cant see much as revs go up as it was quite windy so smoke doesnt hang around long and ive got to watch where im going!  Couldnt do a lot of miles maybe 10 max due to lockdown.

It could just be some residue from before i sorted the drain pipework so will do some more miles when i get opportunity and see if it improves, damn lockdown is a pest for testing stuff like this as i would normally do a long drive to get some more info.

Im starting to think its the motor now though and not the turbo! it could still be the turbine side seal on turbo is leaking a little but its only done around 1000 miles and even if there was a little leaking past to cause the smoking i dont think it would drop oil level so much, the way these turbo seals work it would usually need to be very bad to cause any noticable oil usage and make lots more smoke than it is in the progress, i noticed on trackday it was using it and had to keep it topped up through the day, not a huge amount but i didnt do a massive amount of miles so i guess all things considered it was using more than is ideal.

Im thinking a compression test is next on cards to see what cylinder pressures are like, car runs perfect other than the smoking and plugs looked ok as above so its a bit odd, i know a compression test wont tell the full story but its easy to do and will give me an idea, i just need to get my hands on compression tester now as cant go into work for it, might pop to halfords if im passing on way for other essentials.

Engine history for reference, its a 2005 car and presume original engine, done 105k now and i bought at 96k, full toyota service history with previous owners and last one removed pre-cat manifold at approx 93k and i got it with car precats looks perfect to me. Its always run sweet as a nut and Ive never really had to top oil up much between changes since i got it including track use, its only since turbo its started smoking and using it, as previous posts i had put this down to turbo but pretty sure that is all good now which only leaves the motor, could be bores/pistons or stem seals i guess but engine doesnt seem to breathe heavy and get very little blowby residue in my catch can on PCV line so not sure.

Hopefully get a drive on sunday as need to get shopping for my parents and take it through so will see how that goes and decide from there, fingers crossed smoke reduces and all is good but im not optimistic on it lol

I have everything to put it back to N/A apart from the 2 crush ring gaskets for manifold to cat pipe, if anyone reading this has some spare let me know please

[s12vea]

I still reckon it's the turbo, I had issues with a rebuild turbo that smoked the supplying company blamed the engine and drainage.
But funny enough after replacing for a different turbo the issue stopped.

[thetyrant]

I still reckon it's the turbo, I had issues with a rebuild turbo that smoked the supplying company blamed the engine and drainage.
But funny enough after replacing for a different turbo the issue stopped.

It could be yes, ive just had a run out to shops and no smoke on start up or just pottering about town with little to no boost/revs etc,  however heading home there is a longish hill where im coasting down on engine braking for maybe 30secs and when i hit accelerator at bottom big cloud of blue smoke!....thats more like valve stem seal issues ive seen in past, but they often cause smoke on startup as well which im not getting!  weird one.

[thetyrant]

So today this happened!   

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Turbo looks free from oil in turbine and return pipework was totally drained of oil unlike previous where i would get some build up that drained when i removed elbow, so thats the good news!  turbo and new drain pipework etc all seem in good order and working as they should

Now the bad news!      pics below looking into exhaust ports, as you can see we have some oil seepage or evidence of on most of the valves, so stem seals are shot 

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So what to do now!....i really dont want to pull the head off to do these as from what i can see and have read about getting head out with engine in place is a proper mare!  anyone done it care to comment ?

At least it looks like ive found the source of the smoke, although i dont know what bores/pistons/rings are like so i need to do a compression test to get an idea on that i guess.

Im starting to think engine will have to come out and a 2zz might go in its place!  pondering all the options now.

[Carolyn]

So today this happened!   

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Turbo looks free from oil in turbine and return pipework was totally drained of oil unlike previous where i would get some build up that drained when i removed elbow, so thats the good news!  turbo and new drain pipework etc all seem in good order and working as they should

Now the bad news!      pics below looking into exhaust ports, as you can see we have some oil seepage or evidence of on most of the valves, so stem seals are shot 

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So what to do now!....i really dont want to pull the head off to do these as from what i can see and have read about getting head out with engine in place is a proper mare!  anyone done it care to comment ?

At least it looks like ive found the source of the smoke, although i dont know what bores/pistons/rings are like so i need to do a compression test to get an idea on that i guess.

Im starting to think engine will have to come out and a 2zz might go in its place!  pondering all the options now.

Yes I've done the head off and on, in the car.  Probably quicker to drop the engine.  The biggest pig is the hose on the back of the head that goes to the oil warmer/cooler.  The JDM car doesn't have that so I reckon my MR S would be easier.

[thetyrant]

Yes I've done the head off and on, in the car.  Probably quicker to drop the engine.  The biggest pig is the hose on the back of the head that goes to the oil warmer/cooler.  The JDM car doesn't have that so I reckon my MR S would be easier.

Thanks for that it does look an absolute pig to get off in car with that inlet manifold!

[Carolyn]

Yes I've done the head off and on, in the car.  Probably quicker to drop the engine.  The biggest pig is the hose on the back of the head that goes to the oil warmer/cooler.  The JDM car doesn't have that so I reckon my MR S would be easier.

Thanks for that it does look an absolute pig to get off in car with that inlet manifold!

The inlet manifold is pretty easy to get loose from the head. It's the other stuff that's attached to the head that all adds up. 

Looking at your valves, I'd be wanting to clean the backs of them up - which we do on the lathe.  Anyway,
if you're going to get the valves all the way out- you have to pull the head.

I must say, (looking at your pics) I do doubt that your valve seals are the totality of the problem.  I strongly suspect your rings are buggered too.

So, I'd say drop the engine, open it up and do rings, honing, head refurbish and big end shells....

[thetyrant]

The inlet manifold is pretty easy to get loose from the head. It's the other stuff that's attached to the head that all adds up. 

Looking at your valves, I'd be wanting to clean the backs of them up - which we do on the lathe.  Anyway,
if you're going to get the valves all the way out- you have to pull the head.

I must say, (looking at your pics) I do doubt that your valve seals are the totality of the problem.  I strongly suspect your rings are buggered too.

So, I'd say drop the engine, open it up and do rings, honing, head refurbish and big end shells....

Thanks for input its much appreciated, other issues apart from the stem seals are my concern and if i go through all the hassle of changing them ive still 105k engine which like you say could probably do with at least rings/hone etc,  if i pull it apart that much i wouldnt want to put back stock internals and at least stronger rods.

Anyone know if you can get stronger forged rods to go on stock pistons ? i know in my Evo days we used to do what was known as a "rod job" which was basically pop out rods and pistons, fit forged rods onto stock piston then refit and engine was then safe for 500hp with no other machining needed, was good cheap mod as long as mileage wasnt crazy and bores in good shape worked well. You can also get stock bore forged pistons for them but bit risky fitting them without a rebore, tended to be on smaller size which mean noisy and oil usage so not ideal unless just a big boost track engine.

So at the moment im going to put it back to NA then i can drive if needed and weigh up my options.

Todays job is remove rest of turbo kit and fit my old manifold cat etc then all i need is some crush rings for exhaust and its alive again, Turbo kit may or may not be for sale depending on which way i go next but if anyone is looking for a SP240 kit let me know we can chat

[Nvy]

The inlet manifold is pretty easy to get loose from the head. It's the other stuff that's attached to the head that all adds up. 

Looking at your valves, I'd be wanting to clean the backs of them up - which we do on the lathe.  Anyway,
if you're going to get the valves all the way out- you have to pull the head.

I must say, (looking at your pics) I do doubt that your valve seals are the totality of the problem.  I strongly suspect your rings are buggered too.

So, I'd say drop the engine, open it up and do rings, honing, head refurbish and big end shells....

Thanks for input its much appreciated, other issues apart from the stem seals are my concern and if i go through all the hassle of changing them ive still 105k engine which like you say could probably do with at least rings/hone etc,  if i pull it apart that much i wouldnt want to put back stock internals and at least stronger rods.

Anyone know if you can get stronger forged rods to go on stock pistons ? i know in my Evo days we used to do what was known as a "rod job" which was basically pop out rods and pistons, fit forged rods onto stock piston then refit and engine was then safe for 500hp with no other machining needed, was good cheap mod as long as mileage wasnt crazy and bores in good shape worked well. You can also get stock bore forged pistons for them but bit risky fitting them without a rebore, tended to be on smaller size which mean noisy and oil usage so not ideal unless just a big boost track engine.

So at the moment im going to put it back to NA then i can drive if needed and weigh up my options.

Todays job is remove rest of turbo kit and fit my old manifold cat etc then all i need is some crush rings for exhaust and its alive again, Turbo kit may or may not be for sale depending on which way i go next but if anyone is looking for a SP240 kit let me know we can chat

You can use Molnar rods on the stock pistons but if I was doing that Id fit both pistons and rods. I read somewhere that stock pistons can do around 300 hp.

[thetyrant]

You can use Molnar rods on the stock pistons but if I was doing that Id fit both pistons and rods. I read somewhere that stock pistons can do around 300 hp.

Ok thanks another option then, problem with uprating pistons as well its then a full engine build as you need to rebore to suit, if stock pistons are good to 300 then makes sense to keep saves reboring/full strip if bores are honeable of course, then coupled with stronger rods and new rod bearings should make a strong enough engine
 for minimal expense.

So far my options are as below.

• Run current engine as is in NA form and just keep topping up oil and putting up with smoke!
• Replace just valve stems seals in situ and take a risk on rest of engine health, na or turbo optional
• Strip this engine and do part build with new stems seals, clean up head, pistons/rings/hone etc
• As above but used stronger rods (molnar?)
• I also have chance of another smoker 1zz engine cheap which might be an option to build although if bores are bad could get expensive.
• Fit 2zz motor! 

HMMM

[Nvy]

You can use Molnar rods on the stock pistons but if I was doing that Id fit both pistons and rods. I read somewhere that stock pistons can do around 300 hp.

Ok thanks another option then, problem with uprating pistons as well its then a full engine build as you need to rebore to suit, if stock pistons are good to 300 then makes sense to keep saves reboring/full strip if bores are honeable of course, then coupled with stronger rods and new rod bearings should make a strong enough engine
 for minimal expense.

So far my options are as below.

• Run current engine as is in NA form and just keep topping up oil and putting up with smoke!
• Replace just valve stems seals in situ and take a risk on rest of engine health, na or turbo optional
• Strip this engine and do part build with new stems seals, clean up head, pistons/rings/hone etc
• As above but used stronger rods (molnar?)
• I also have chance of another smoker 1zz engine cheap which might be an option to build although if bores are bad could get expensive.
• Fit 2zz motor! 

HMMM

Price wise 2zz and your bottom end fully built will run the same money. Building the engine will ensure that you have everything brand new and wont rely on luck for the 2zz engine.