Supercharger kit

[Petrus]

Any reason why not to fit this TRD supercharger kit for tthe 1ZZ-FE.
Comes complete with TRD piggyback ECU.

I know the word is that it does not fit but I have also read on Spyderchat that the ´Corky´ guy modded one to fit without molesting the firewall.

If it does not fit or otherwise a dead end, than ok. I just think it só much more elegant than a turbo/comprex 

[Nvy]

There is a guy around here who has c30-64 rotrex kit. I think hes willing to let it go for around 1500-1600 euros, I can contact him in case you are interested. Its 190 horses I think, PE kit.

[Petrus]

Thanks Ivo but no dice here.
It´s either TTE turbo or TRD compressor or.... n.a. 


Anyway, just received a package; an imo great mod :-)

[househead]

Which kit is it? I was under the impression TRD produced a supercharger specifically for the 1zz.

I would personally take supercharged over turbo any day. More power right through the rev range and no lag. What's not to love?!

[Petrus]

Yes it is the kit for the 1ZZ-FE in the Corolla/ Vibe/ Celica.

It is supposed to be plug & play.
The power gains are modest in comparison with turbo/rotrex installations but it is available from idle.
The ham question is what mods are needed to get it to squeeze between intake and firewall.

[thetyrant]

Its a nice idea and i looked into it before going turbo and i loved the twin screw SC kit i built on my MX-5, there are a few issues with TRD kit though and finding one is most difficult thing and price often crazy!, also fitting them into a MR2 is a challenge due to engine/firewall location compared to the corolla, doesnt even fit the Celica due to bonnet angle so think some bulkhead mods would be needed on MR2.

The kit is also a bit limited as being non-intercooled feeding direct into the inlet ports on head (basically replacing the manifold with a supercharger) it will suffer with heatsoak issues, especially on MR2 with no direct airflow compared to being in front engined car like corolla, i think price/performance its not a viable option unless you picked up a cheap kit and didnt mind modify things to fit.

I also looked at the Rotrex centrifugal setup but cost to do that right is expensive as just the charger with oil supply etc is £2500, then you need all the brackets and pipework fabbed up etc, main bonus of rotrex is its a nice linear power delivery so just like a bigger engine, also easier on the engine as no boost low down unlike a exhaust driven turbo and less hear as well, some like that some want power everywhere which only a twin screw SC or Turbo (correctly sized) can do.

All in all i decided to go low boost turbo in the end for various reasons, price vs performance being the main one and coming across a used kit at right money was a bonus, i was going to build one with Turbokits manifold which might of worked out cheaper but thought i would try this SP240 kit and see how i get on.

Short answer is TRD SC kit is rare/expensive/compromised with heatsoak issues and power limits and not an easy fit into MR2

[Petrus]

Short answer is TRD SC kit is rare/expensive/compromised with heatsoak issues and power limits and not an easy fit into MR2

Thanks.
Nót prepared to mod. the firewall and cannot find any specifics on how to mod the sc to make it fit.

Because of the heat thing, it is one of the very few examples of a lower temp thermostat making sense.

They do pop up from time to time and are now no longer sought after appearantly. Often with the TRD piggyback ECU. Asking prices 1500$ and seen them go under 1K. So say 1500€ fitted.
For me that would be a go íf, big ÍF, I can find what to do to make it physically fit. The rest is a simple as you could whish for.

An original TTE turbo is the only other option to make my little frog a Ceratrophys but those are even rarer and likely not cheaper fitted.

[thetyrant]

Pretty sure easiest way to get it in would be to cut the firewall and make a boxed cover for hole with more space, not a huge job but not simple either.

A lower temp thermostat is not going to affect the high inlet temperatures from trying to squeeze the extra air in with this kit which is main issue in my mind, also the heavy lump of the charger will be a real heatsink stuck behind firewall, i couldnt believe how heavy these chargers are and the M45 i used on mazda was a brute, the M62 i replaced it with was even more so!

People often think fitting a lower temp coolant stat lowers engine operating temps, in reality it rarely does it just makes it warm up the last bit slower as it opens sooner, under normal running stock stat will be wide open usually anyhows so no gain from fitting lower temp unit, other than slower warm up.

Easiest way to improve the cooling (if needed to) is add an oil cooler to keep that under control, improving the stock coolant cooling (again if needed) is difficult maybe a better/thicker radiator can help or adding fans etc, difficult to do right with limited space as well, a vented bonnet to let heat out there would be good but of course far from stock looking!

If you could get a TRD SC kit for 1000 then thats worth thinking about, just the installation and things to worry about but think your looking at more than 500 to get someone to squeeze it in there.

One other issue with the TRD kit is the piggyback ecu is poor, apparently it just controls an extra 5th injector to add some fuel, very crude and like they used to do in the 1980's!  really you need a better ecu either piggyback to add fuel or preferably a standalone setup to get full control, either way more expense to buy and get mapped etc.

[Petrus]

Pretty sure easiest way to get it in would be to cut the firewall and make a boxed cover for hole with more space, not a huge job but not simple either.

A lower temp thermostat is not going to affect the high inlet temperatures from trying to squeeze the extra air in with this kit which is main issue in my mind, also the heavy lump of the charger will be a real heatsink stuck behind firewall, i couldnt believe how heavy these chargers are and the M45 i used on mazda was a brute, the M62 i replaced it with was even more so!

People often think fitting a lower temp coolant stat lowers engine operating temps, in reality it rarely does it just makes it warm up the last bit slower as it opens sooner, under normal running stock stat will be wide open usually anyhows so no gain from fitting lower temp unit, other than slower warm up.

Easiest way to improve the cooling (if needed to) is add an oil cooler to keep that under control, improving the stock coolant cooling (again if needed) is difficult maybe a better/thicker radiator can help or adding fans etc, difficult to do right with limited space as well, a vented bonnet to let heat out there would be good but of course far from stock looking!

If you could get a TRD SC kit for 1000 then thats worth thinking about, just the installation and things to worry about but think your looking at more than 500 to get someone to squeeze it in there.

One other issue with the TRD kit is the piggyback ecu is poor, apparently it just controls an extra 5th injector to add some fuel, very crude and like they used to do in the 1980's!  really you need a better ecu either piggyback to add fuel or preferably a standalone setup to get full control, either way more expense to buy and get mapped etc.

Summing up the issues perfectly.
I would not be flooring it for prologued periods so the lower base temp of the thermostat would give just a bit more leeway.
Was thinking scoops on the side vents and already have the bonnet vented.
Good point about the mapping. That is a hole you pour money into.

Ah well, one is allowed to dream no?!
Probably not a good idea to give me forced induction anyway.
Best think of something to unbolt and box ;-)

[thetyrant]

Haha yes you gota dream sometimes

TTE turbo kit is the easy answer but again so rare and hence demand a premium, i saw on here recently a guy might be splitting one of his crashed car but not seen advert and he never replied to my message expressing interest , maybe it sold off the forum or its not been listed yet but im interested to see what it makes if it does come up on here, to me its got to be worth £2k+ all day long as despite its limitations as its a proven and well tested solution for those looking for extra power, also being factory approved has big benefits especially if your country needs relevant approval papers  etc, im trying to make an enhanced version of same thing with what im building now

[Petrus]

Yes, have exchanged som messages with him.
Dug into the paperwork (with great help from Jason) and it would be my ónly legal option.
Still a 15 y.o. kit and although agreeing with you on the pricing, with added costs to make it work on my car not worth that to mé.

A pita that NOS is such tricky stuff that I do not want to mess with it. On my diesel cabrio I had 15% butane boost 

[Snelbaard]

Thank you Thetyrant for your detailed explanation, you talked me out of getting a supercharger. To think last week I almost bought a supercharged Corolla!

Does anyone know if the TTE turbo kit will also bolt straight onto a 2ZZ and play nicely with it?

[Petrus]

Does anyone know if the TTE turbo kit will also bolt straight onto a 2ZZ and play nicely with it?

Yes and no, it will not, not at all.

[thetyrant]

Thank you Thetyrant for your detailed explanation, you talked me out of getting a supercharger. To think last week I almost bought a supercharged Corolla!

Does anyone know if the TTE turbo kit will also bolt straight onto a 2ZZ and play nicely with it?

I was thinking of doing same and buying a SC corolla but price is silly over here still and also the hassle of cutting bulkhead to get it in as well the the heatsoak issues it will have i decieded against that as well, there is a local member ot me who has done it though and also has a SP240 kitted car so one day i will drive both to compare.

TTE kit wont fit the 2zz directly as the exhaust mounting flanges are different, to do it properly you would need to change the manifold part but rest of it would technically bolt on, piggyback ecu would not work with 2zz very well i dont think so you would need a solution to that.

One of other reasons i went turbo is if i do blow it up and want to go 2zz all i need is to change the manifold to bolt up what i have to a 2zz motor if i wanted, i would probably stay 1zz though as used engines are plentiful and cheap at least at moment.

[Petrus]

I was thinking of doing same and buying a SC corolla but price is silly over here still and also the hassle of cutting bulkhead to get it in as well the the heatsoak issues it will have i decieded against that as well, there is a local member ot me who has done it though and also has a SP240 kitted car so one day i will drive both to compare.

That would be móst interesting indeed. Ditto concerning what was needed to make space for the blower.

[Petrus]

I actually asked Rogue Motorsport about supercharger upgrade of 1zz instead of 2zz swap and they literally told me "no way, the 1zz is too fragile for supercharger". Keeping my fingers crossed yours doesn't blow.

Yet Toyota provided both turbo and supercharger dealer kits for the 1ZZ-FE...

Probably more a case of how much hp is expected.

[thetyrant]

I actually asked Rogue Motorsport about supercharger upgrade of 1zz instead of 2zz swap and they literally told me "no way, the 1zz is too fragile for supercharger". Keeping my fingers crossed yours doesn't blow.

Strange comment but i think maybe more of a generalization depending on final goals and usage maybe, also i know 2zz is more there thing and what they like to do these days, although the Turbo kit ive just bought from them was off a car that Patrick (the owner @ Rogue) actually bought to swap the turbo kit to his own 1zz motor car, only reason he didnt was a another rather special GT86 came along at a good price so he put his money into that.

Ive done a fair bit of research and 200-220hp is deemed safe for a 1zz as long as in good health and tuned correctly, many people run more than that and 250hp is not unusual but at there own risk and i guess a lot depends on how its used, 250hp used for occasional bursts on road will be no issue, try and get it to takeit all day long on track is a whole other ballgame   Conrods are the weak part of the 1zz so an upgrade of those would be ideal if pushing much over 200hp i think.

The TTE turbo kit was kept around 180hp to retain warranty and 100% Toyota reliability so the little extra over that im planning should be ok i hope, we will see!

[Ardent]

@mr2noob

The installation manual is in the reference section. Would give you a good idea.

[wotugonado]

Timing is everything...... It is very possible to find one, mine will be up for sale soon once its been removed and inspected. To coin a phrase "keep em peeled"

[househead]

Timing is everything...... It is very possible to find one, mine will be up for sale soon once its been removed and inspected. To coin a phrase "keep em peeled"

I think it's fair to say a few people are waiting for this to drop!

[wotugonado]

It came down to garage space, @househead you saw how rammed my garage is. Sold off some other parts so room is now available. Regarding price I won't know till I've checked it all over.....

[1979scotte]

@thetyrant please stop quoting bhp as a limit on a 1zz. Bhp doesn't brake engines torque and boost break engines. Keep torque below 240ftlb for SAFETY. That is considered safe for the gearbox.

@Snelbaard
TTE turbo is absolutely no good for the 2zz it's too small to do it justice its a tb2559 you want something much larger like a GT28**

The reason people slag off the 1zz for Fi is because you can't just boost it up to the eyeballs like a 3sgte its fine on a small gt25 turbo with 10psi and good cooling.
The 2zz has much stronger rods from factory and hold much more boost from much bigger turbos. Also because they have much less torque than bhp you can make over 300bhp on them and only 230 ftlb for example they work really well with rotrex.
As ever the key is the mapping and the amount of time (read money) you are willing to spend to get a great tune.

Thats my opinion anyway.

[thetyrant]

@thetyrant please stop quoting bhp as a limit on a 1zz. Bhp doesn't brake engines torque and boost break engines. Keep torque below 240ftlb for SAFETY. That is considered safe for the gearbox.

@Snelbaard
TTE turbo is absolutely no good for the 2zz it's too small to do it justice its a tb2559 you want something much larger like a GT28**

The reason people slag off the 1zz for Fi is because you can't just boost it up to the eyeballs like a 3sgte its fine on a small gt25 turbo with 10psi and good cooling.
The 2zz has much stronger rods from factory and hold much more boost from much bigger turbos. Also because they have much less torque than bhp you can make over 300bhp on them and only 230 ftlb for example they work really well with rotrex.
As ever the key is the mapping and the amount of time (read money) you are willing to spend to get a great tune.

Thats my opinion anyway.

Indeed torque is the usual culprit for breaking rods especially, ive quoted power as its easier for people to relate to a lot of the time, also as a general rule on 4cylinder at least peak power is often a higher number than peak torque so if say working to 220 max whether its power or torque its safe limit,  but as you say many run more with gearbox being problem with higher torque as well as the rods.

I will try to remember and quote both in future to stop you moaning lol

[Petrus]

As ever the key is the mapping and the amount of time (read money) you are willing to spend to get a great tune.

Thats my opinion anyway.

Well, Í agree.

[Petrus]

Bhp doesn't brake engines torque and boost break engines.

Now with the Ford myth at LeMans in the picture, that saga if told completely is actually the perfect example of this.
Ford never got it that there ís a substitute for cubic inches and persued pooring gearboxes into the big blocks instead of developing their small blocks.