Mr Poo the MunteR2

Started by AdamR28, August 23, 2020, 11:02

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Petrus

Q&D:

Stiffen the front ARB a bit.
Stiffen rear springs a bit.
Bolt on a Silly Big Wing on the back.

The latter adds traction at the rear only, not changing the frequency of the rear suspension (apart from slówing it down a whiff because of extra load), can be done in half an hour for 100 Euros while you think about the rest.
Don´t like it; it´s off in 15 minutes and resold or re-used in a different project easily.
Oh and mine now is under 3 kg. in all.

AdamR28

Quote from: Petrus on May  6, 2021, 10:52Stiffen the front ARB a bit.
Stiffen rear springs a bit.
Bolt on a Silly Big Wing on the back.

Thanks for your input as always!

However, these three things will also achieve the following:

- Make the car stiffer (already said I don't want to do that).
- Add weight (don't want to do that)
- Add drag (don't want to do that)
- Add cost (don't want to do that)
- Take a lot more time to do than the solution I came up with (don't want to do that)

thetyrant

Will be interesting to see how the changes go :), ive played around with the Whiteline bars on mine and found with rear one even on full soft it was too much for me on a sprint event with cold tyres, it just kept trying to swap ends mid bend as car loaded up outside wheel coming onto power no matter how smooth i was, disconnected it and next run was fine so i refitted stock rear bar which seems to work for me and sold rear whiteline.

I probably should of kept the rear whiteline for trackdays as it felt ok on the one i did with it, no doubt the warmed up tyres helped and it certainly helped reduce body roll a touch as well, im like you i prefer car of softer side but some reduction in roll is good and why ive kept the front whiteline which is on stiffest setting, car doesnt understeer for my style at all and is very balanced even on cheap hankook road tyre i ran at croft on monday in wet.

Had a EP3 Civic owner lad drive it as well and he was expecting understeer with snap oversteer but was amazed how well it turns in and just grips and its so hard to unstick the rear!  to be fair it was on the Zestinos semis at time but he was passenger for many laps when Hankooks went on and rain came down and was still impressed, as was i for budget tyres!

Keep up the good work :D
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

AdamR28

Really good info that, thanks Ian! I have a set of Whiteline ARBs knocking about as an option if I want down the line.

Still have some wheels for you! Might be up in the Lakes next weekend (15th) if any good to you?

Petrus

 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Enjoy!!

I have the marine quality pleather for the tonneau in and am out sourcing the fittings.

thetyrant

Quote from: AdamR28 on May  6, 2021, 11:43Really good info that, thanks Ian! I have a set of Whiteline ARBs knocking about as an option if I want down the line.

Still have some wheels for you! Might be up in the Lakes next weekend (15th) if any good to you?

If you decide not to use the rear whiteline i might be interested to have it for trackdays just let me know  :)

Hmm what were the wheels?  sorry ive totally forgotten!    :-[  :-\  :o
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

JB21

Cadwell looked a lot of fun mate. A track i'm desperate to do.

Interesting points on dynamic rear toe too, if you don't want to stiffen it up then looks like you'll have to find a nice static toe in balance? I current run 3mm total toe in on the rear, but as its quite stiff it wont affect dynamic toe nowhere near as much as yours. Mine is set-up quite safe with 3mm, but I like the balance, it suits my intermediate skill level.

Would love a go of the MunteR2 versus mine, polar opposite MR2's but in your hands would pump out very similar lap times I'd bet. Managed to weigh mine last time out at Oulton....950kg bang on so running just shy of 200hp p/ton.

Crazy how you can pull similar G's to me running wide rear AR1's, just shows how functional your aero is. Aero is next on my list of mods.

I'm back at 3S on Monday, first time since the evening session we attended. Hopefully it goes better for me this time, lol.

Keep up the good work.

Roj

All interesting stuff. Glad you're sticking with your mantra of keeping it supple. I like a bit of roll to feel what the car is doing.

A bit off topic but do you still recommend the Apec brake pads @AdamR28?

Gaz mr-s

May not relevant but I've seen it written that some of the race guys don't use a rear a/roll bar at all.

Petrus

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on May  6, 2021, 21:10May not relevant but I've seen it written that some of the race guys don't use a rear a/roll bar at all.

It is mostly about whether the driver needs or prefers understeer or oversteer.
For a given set up, the less rear sway bar the more grip at the rear and relatively less at the front.
Personally I get nervous by understeer. Again a heritage of motorcycle racing probably.

There is a bit of an adder under the gras. By changing the sway bar either fron or rear the roll frequency of the car is changed.
As a rule of thumb the rear needs to be a bit quicker that the fron, just like the suspension frequency.
The reason being that the front not only gets into the corner firts, it also it stééred. To get a balanced response, the rear needs to be a bit quicker.
It is therefor interesting that TRD doúbled the rear spring rate for both the Sportivo and Racing springs whereas the stock is 50% stiffer; it ups the rear frequency.
By softening/removing the rear sway bar the roll frequency is lówered at that end; it will set in the corner later.
More grip but lagging a bit. It will be most noticeable in chicanes. Will also have more ´swing back´ when correcting oversteer.

It illustrates thé tricky thing with suspension; everything affects everything else. There is no such thing as júst more/less grip at either end.

AdamR28

Quote from: thetyrant on May  6, 2021, 12:35If you decide not to use the rear whiteline i might be interested to have it for trackdays just let me know  :)

Hmm what were the wheels?  sorry ive totally forgotten!    :-[  :-\  :o

Okey doke, will do, cheers!

Pair of FL 16" rears, FOC if you still want em mate.

Quote from: JB21 on May  6, 2021, 15:10Keep up the good work.

Thanks Phil, and thanks for the toe info! I am pretty sure I have less than 3mm at the moment, we'll see in a couple of weeks when I check it out.

Quote from: Roj on May  6, 2021, 20:31A bit off topic but do you still recommend the Apec brake pads @AdamR28?

Yep, still using them - and still no visible wear! Not really that surprising, as the car is much lighter than say an MX5, and has much bigger brakes.


Got an interesting day set up at Blyton Park mid June - a mate of a mate has a couple of supercars and has hired the track for the day. We've been invited along to share the day, so Mr Poo will be in some slightly less tatty company!

thetyrant

Quote from: AdamR28 on May 12, 2021, 06:28Pair of FL 16" rears, FOC if you still want em mate.


Ah yes had forgotten all about those!, i picked up a set of mx-5 15's for track use last week so dont really need those 16's now but sure someone will have them off you :D
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

Roj

Quote from: AdamR28 on May 12, 2021, 06:28
Quote from: Roj on May  6, 2021, 20:31A bit off topic but do you still recommend the Apec brake pads @AdamR28?

Yep, still using them - and still no visible wear! Not really that surprising, as the car is much lighter than say an MX5, and has much bigger brakes.


Great stuff, cheers. I have an afternoon at Knockhill in a few weeks, so I'll give them a try.

AdamR28

Quote from: Roj on May 12, 2021, 07:57Great stuff, cheers. I have an afternoon at Knockhill in a few weeks, so I'll give them a try.

How did you get on Roj?

AdamR28

#414
So, a bit of Blyton prep today. All went very smoothly which was nice!

First up, rear toe setting. It was at 10 minutes in, and my theory of it crossing to significant toe out under hard cornering seems to have been correct.

Car at full 'lift', with the rear wheel just about to come off the floor (gauge is reading 'backwards' here):

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Car at ride height...

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And with 100kg balanced on the rear corner.

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Quite a significant toe change!

Now set to 40 mins in across the axle, see how that goes.

Had a nosey at tyres and brake pads.

Pads all good.

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Tyres, more wear rear than front, and more on the left than the right - as you'd expect. They've done well for two sideways track days though, should get 5 days out of them in total I reckon. Nice even wear shows the camber settings are about right too.

Front right.

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Rear right.

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Front left

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Rear left

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Swapped them front to rear, and given next outing is Blyton (anti clockwise) that should even the left-right wear out nicely.

AdamR28

And finally a small shifter hack. Both @Maurici and myself missed 2nd a few times at Cadwell, due to the 6 speed box having reverse up to the side of 1st. You get a bit excited and push a bit hard sideways, so the shift doesn't go in at all and you're left fumbling mid corner without any engine braking!

Step in a random offcut of ali, a bolt, a nut, and a few washers.

Stops in just the right place to slip nicely into 2nd (or 1st).

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Need reverse? Just swing it out the way, then back again afterwards!

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1979scotte

Quote from: AdamR28 on June  8, 2021, 22:23And finally a small shifter hack. Both @Maurici and myself missed 2nd a few times at Cadwell, due to the 6 speed box having reverse up to the side of 1st. You get a bit excited and push a bit hard sideways, so the shift doesn't go in at all and you're left fumbling mid corner without any engine braking!

Step in a random offcut of ali, a bolt, a nut, and a few washers.

Stops in just the right place to slip nicely into 2nd (or 1st).

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Need reverse? Just swing it out the way, then back again afterwards!

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Get a 5 speed even the UK ones shift better. A JDM is better still with better ratios.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

AdamR28

Yeah, prefer the 5 speed in my daily. But can I be arsed to swap it? Nooooope!

Alex Knight

Quote from: 1979scotte on June  8, 2021, 22:32
Quote from: AdamR28 on June  8, 2021, 22:23And finally a small shifter hack. Both @Maurici and myself missed 2nd a few times at Cadwell, due to the 6 speed box having reverse up to the side of 1st. You get a bit excited and push a bit hard sideways, so the shift doesn't go in at all and you're left fumbling mid corner without any engine braking!

Step in a random offcut of ali, a bolt, a nut, and a few washers.

Stops in just the right place to slip nicely into 2nd (or 1st).

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Need reverse? Just swing it out the way, then back again afterwards!

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Get a 5 speed even the UK ones shift better. A JDM is better still with better ratios.

Surely this thing is crying out for a 2ZZ gearbox swap!

Cheap and weight penalty free way of improving acceleration.

Roj

Quote from: AdamR28 on June  8, 2021, 22:13
Quote from: Roj on May 12, 2021, 07:57Great stuff, cheers. I have an afternoon at Knockhill in a few weeks, so I'll give them a try.

How did you get on Roj?

I didn't get my 2.1 gearbox back in time so I ended up taking my Golf on track. The standard brakes on that didn't hold up well at all, horrendous pad transfer when hot.

AdamR28

#420
Quote from: Alex Knight on June  9, 2021, 07:04Surely this thing is crying out for a 2ZZ gearbox swap!

Cheap and weight penalty free way of improving acceleration.

That sounds interesting. Thanks for the heads up!



Blyton Park yesterday was quite fun!

How often do you see a Huracan?

How often do you see a Huracan on track?

How often do you see a Huracan exiting a track backwards and entering a field?

How often do you see that twice in two laps?  ;D


The owner was clearly a very confident driver, giving it full beans all day, but after coming out for a few drifty laps in Mr Poo decided to turn all the electronics off and have a go at some drifting.

It was probably the funniest thing I've seen for ages. The guy was loving it, didn't seem to be worried at all about the car, just treating it like the pile of metal, plastic and rubber that it is.

I'm glad I persuaded him only to try it at Bishops, Bunga Bunga and the final corner though!

Other cars in attendance were along the lines of... Two R8s, one V8, one V10, C63 AMG, new Panamera hybrid, 911 Turbo, Cayman GT4, Giulia quatraformagia (or whatever its called - the 510bhp one anyway), Yaris GR (also sideways a lot and in the field a couple of times), Elise, VX220, E92 M3, a 200SX that could not keep in a straight line (it was wet all day) and various others I have forgotten. So Mr Poo was obviously the shittest thing there.

My mate Danny, who was due to share my car, absolutely loves supercars / fancy cars so he only ended up doing 3 laps of driving all day - instead shepherding / persuading as many people as he could to jump in for some pax laps with me, and chatting everyone else up so he could jump in with them!

The Huracan and V10 R8 sounded glorious, and despite the wet track kept lapping with gusto, with everyone else getting plenty of track time given the low numbers and chilled vibe.

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With all the excitement I barely got any photos and completely forgot to stick the camera in the car, but I can confirm that adding more rear toe in has helped. The car will still get wildly out of shape (and catch it well) if you want, but it does actually understeer a bit at times now.

I'm unsure if it was wind direction or aero balance related, but coming out of Port Froid the car wanted to oversteer every lap - perhaps a balance shift towards a bit more understeer is required for next time.

Even in the wet the rear brakes lock first, so that bias valve I've had knocking around for ages needs to go in ideally. May explain why the car will pull 1.3g in the bends but I struggled to get over 0.9g on the brakes last time out!

Oil consumption is about the same, perhaps a little better again, though the tensioner seal is very leaky now and I have feeling that is letting as much through as the piston rings  :))

The shift stopper works perfectly, love how a simple mod cam transform a car!

So all in all a very successful and enjoyable day, with a few tweaks to make for next time if desired.

JB21

Sounds belting Adam, love a Blyton track day. Especially one littered with exotics. How did you find the new orange look Blyton? Have they lowered any kerbs? Is it any faster?

AdamR28

The exit of Bishops is sooooo wide, it takes a bit of getting used to. Its about 1s faster over a lap because of this.

The rest of it is the same bar paint, except psychologically the points where the new tyre stacks are make you give them a bit more of a wide berth, if you see what I mean!

Roj

Quote from: AdamR28 on June 19, 2021, 14:44
Quote from: Alex Knight on June  9, 2021, 07:04Surely this thing is crying out for a 2ZZ gearbox swap!

Cheap and weight penalty free way of improving acceleration.

That sounds interesting. Thanks for the heads up!


I'm mid way through a 2.1ZZ 'box swap. C66 1ZZ 6spd with LSD, with first to fifth and the final drive from a C64 2ZZ' box swapped in, keeping 6th and the slipper from the original 'box. New clutch and lightweight flywheel are in but I've been struggling to get the box lined up using a trolley jack and engine support beam, so I can't report back on the results yet!

I posted a comparison of the ratios in this thread: https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=70628.msg845311#msg845311


pistol pete

#424
Car went well yesterday mate! looked good fun on track , I got so caught up I couldn't get over to say hi. So many people were asking for passenger laps, and chatting etc
Franks days are such a good laugh.

I reakon it would be great if you stuck a 2zz gearset in there, with the weigh you are down to, I should think you'll be on par with the 2zz in the straights, if not a bit quicker.
But man that car is desperately calling out for some track tyres after following. Looks like fun going side ways, but in comparison, when its clear in front I can happily be flat from the first corner of bunga bunga to the corner before pit exit.

With some track tyres on it, it would be a weapon!

I do like the new exit of bishops! its such a great corner now. TBF its a fun track and really suits the MR2 well
I'm three sisters next, then off to Anglesey

On a side note reading above about oil consumption, there was no blue smoke out the back ;D

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