Mr Poo the MunteR2

Started by AdamR28, August 23, 2020, 11:02

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Maurici

Quote from: pistol pete on July  2, 2021, 08:20Car went well yesterday mate! looked good fun on track , I got so caught up I couldn't get over to say hi. So many people were asking for passenger laps, and chatting etc
Franks days are such a good laugh.

I reakon it would be great if you stuck a 2zz gearset in there, with the weigh you are down to, I should think you'll be on par with the 2zz in the straights, if not a bit quicker.
But man that car is desperately calling out for some track tyres after following. Looks like fun going side ways, but in comparison, when its clear in front I can happily be flat from the first corner of bunga bunga to the corner before pit exit.

With some track tyres on it, it would be a weapon!

I do like the new exit of bishops! its such a great corner now. TBF its a fun track and really suits the MR2 well
I'm three sisters next, then off to Anglesey

On a side note reading above about oil consumption, there was no blue smoke out the back ;D

By the end of the day we managed to make it flat... ish too.
It was sort of scary, but to be fair, the quicker we were going through the last corner on port foid the better the car was handling. I think Adam managed to go flat a few times, I learnt to do it without a full lift...
@AdamR28  did some further changes yesterday on track and finally the thing is driveable. Prior to the changes I span in my second lap... again!

pistol pete

Quote from: Maurici on July  2, 2021, 08:31By the end of the day we managed to make it flat... ish too.
It was sort of scary, but to be fair, the quicker we were going through the last corner on port foid the better the car was handling. I think Adam managed to go flat a few times, I learnt to do it without a full lift...
@AdamR28  did some further changes yesterday on track and finally the thing is driveable. Prior to the changes I span in my second lap... again!

Brilliant.
I know what you mean by flat ish. a very small lift on the left-hander But there is a huge difference between flatish and flat when you get to the last corner, all morning on the r888r's i had to do a very small lift (flat ish)  then i swapped to the A052s. and could go flat, the speed difference is quite a lot :)

I don't know your budget or build direction you plan on, but tyres would completely transform the car, even just a set of AR1's

Not sure who was infront of me out of you two, but I did stay back quite a bit coming to corners, as it was "entertaining" to watch on the corners shall we say, its a fabulous concept. Can't wait to see what you do with it moving forward.

I want to do the same with my doors as you have done (single skin) but I need to get some plastic windows first.
I had a quick look first thing but no one was around the car at the time to chat to

What changes did you manage to do on track. Everybody likes a slightly different setup on a MR2, I tried the rogue alignment, and wasn't for me. I have mine own and its so stable

Maurici

Quote from: pistol pete on July  2, 2021, 10:22
Quote from: Maurici on July  2, 2021, 08:31By the end of the day we managed to make it flat... ish too.
It was sort of scary, but to be fair, the quicker we were going through the last corner on port foid the better the car was handling. I think Adam managed to go flat a few times, I learnt to do it without a full lift...
@AdamR28  did some further changes yesterday on track and finally the thing is driveable. Prior to the changes I span in my second lap... again!

Brilliant.
I know what you mean by flat ish. a very small lift on the left-hander But there is a huge difference between flatish and flat when you get to the last corner, all morning on the r888r's i had to do a very small lift (flat ish)  then i swapped to the A052s. and could go flat, the speed difference is quite a lot :)

I don't know your budget or build direction you plan on, but tyres would completely transform the car, even just a set of AR1's

Not sure who was infront of me out of you two, but I did stay back quite a bit coming to corners, as it was "entertaining" to watch on the corners shall we say, its a fabulous concept. Can't wait to see what you do with it moving forward.

I want to do the same with my doors as you have done (single skin) but I need to get some plastic windows first.
I had a quick look first thing but no one was around the car at the time to chat to

What changes did you manage to do on track. Everybody likes a slightly different setup on a MR2, I tried the rogue alignment, and wasn't for me. I have mine own and its so stable

Ah. You were there with the posh mr2 silver, green, massive gay wing... :P

Pretty sure it was Me in front of you. Dont tell me you was holding back, i was sooooo excited you could not keep up.
You have just ruined my day. Bollocks.

We stiffened the rear ARB to avoid body roll and again toe out in bump... a bit counter-intuive, and i wasnt sure about it but adam was convinced it would work. And it did.

I know what you mean with the difference of flat and flat-ish... I have driven blyton with several CRAZY power cars and posh tyres and yes there is a difference at the end. But... is only a super cheap trackday tool, and with the eco tyres is so fun. What is the point to make it faster? We have other toys for that.

Not sure of the future direction... Adam is the project manager there, but ill be very suprises if i ever see any posh rubber in that car.

AdamR28

Project manager. Ha!

I'll write more later, but for now - shame we didn't get to chat Pete, I also tried a couple of times but you were speaking with someone else or not there. Never mind!

Couple of vids:


And later in the session when Port Froid was flat. Not comfortable, but a lot of fun on the ditchfinders!


Have some data to look over too, which should be interesting.

JB21

Quote from: AdamR28 on July  2, 2021, 10:45Project manager. Ha!

I'll write more later, but for now - shame we didn't get to chat Pete, I also tried a couple of times but you were speaking with someone else or not there. Never mind!

Couple of vids:


And later in the session when Port Froid was flat. Not comfortable, but a lot of fun on the ditchfinders!


Have some data to look over too, which should be interesting.

Haha brilliant, looks so much fun. Lap times look quick also, 1:14's maybe...on ditch finders too. Very similar times to mine last time out at Blyton (pre-track layout tweak) and I was on AR1's, just shows you don't need fancy rubber to go quick, driver skill can easily make up for the lack of grip available.

pistol pete

#430
Quote from: Maurici on July  2, 2021, 10:33Ah. You were there with the posh mr2 silver, green, massive gay wing... :P

Pretty sure it was Me in front of you. Dont tell me you was holding back, i was sooooo excited you could not keep up.
You have just ruined my day. Bollocks.

We stiffened the rear ARB to avoid body roll and again toe out in bump... a bit counter-intuive, and i wasnt sure about it but adam was convinced it would work. And it did.

I know what you mean with the difference of flat and flat-ish... I have driven blyton with several CRAZY power cars and posh tyres and yes there is a difference at the end. But... is only a super cheap trackday tool, and with the eco tyres is so fun. What is the point to make it faster? We have other toys for that.

Not sure of the future direction... Adam is the project manager there, but ill be very suprises if i ever see any posh rubber in that car.

Yeah that was my MR2

Sorry, Yeah you car was quick when you intially get on the power , but I was short shifting around 7.5k and holding right back into corners as yours was going so sideways I didn't want to "push" you into spinning in and then me pile into you.. but I had a lot of fun watching the MR2 going very sideways, not sure my passenger at the time liked it, he got a bit worried :) :)
On the way to Blyton my nephew wanted to know how much i had spent on my MR2, it was pretty eye watering, yours is a much lower buck option and i love it, it is quick

ECO tyres for the fun you were having is perfect. It did look at lot of fun! Maybe keep eye out for some used track tyres, they tend to be cheap and a good budget but be a great step up for the car

I compete in mine so i spend too much on it :), but i love it. Ended up doing loads a passenger laps too, they seemed to enjoy it

I was really surprised how quick it was in the straight compared to a normal 1zz, but you have lost soo much weight,  like said with a 2zz box I reckon it'll be slightly quicker than a 2zz on the straight,
TBH I have an ECU and a lot of weight out and development in mine, so you are probably quite a bit quicker than a stock 2zz as your are

pistol pete

#431
next time on track together i'd love to go out in it, happy to take you out in mine too if you ever fancied it

what are your next plans with the car?, or just run as is and enjoy!

pistol pete

#432
Quote from: AdamR28 on July  2, 2021, 10:45Project manager. Ha!

I'll write more later, but for now - shame we didn't get to chat Pete, I also tried a couple of times but you were speaking with someone else or not there. Never mind!

Couple of vids:


And later in the session when Port Froid was flat. Not comfortable, but a lot of fun on the ditchfinders!


Have some data to look over too, which should be interesting.

top work bet it was scary on eco tyres going Flat! good work i'll watch when i get home from work

Yeah defo catch up next time! It is great to see what a mk3 can do with some weight loss, stock engine and a couple of good drivers

Maurici

Quote from: pistol pete on July  2, 2021, 11:28Sorry, Yeah you car was quick when you intially get on the power , but I was short shifting around 7.5k and holding right back into corners as yours was going so sideways I didn't want to "push" you into spinning in and then me pile into you.. but I had a lot of fun watching the MR2 going very sideways, not sure my passenger at the time liked it, he got a bit worried :) :)


I'm now crying in a corner. I'll never get over this!
Glad you found it fun tho! :)

pistol pete

Quote from: Maurici on July  2, 2021, 12:40I'm now crying in a corner. I'll never get over this!
Glad you found it fun tho! :)

I'm sure you'll be fine. :) just go do another trackday and overtake all them cars you were going past (especially those pesky MX5s that were everywhere!)
It was properly well driven, it is always good seeing an MR2 going sideways, the amount of people saying it can't be done etc etc, you prove it can be
I had the wrong set up and tyres in the damp done most of silverstone GP circuit sideways, that was a lot of fun

Maurici

Quote from: pistol pete on July  2, 2021, 13:04
Quote from: Maurici on July  2, 2021, 12:40I'm now crying in a corner. I'll never get over this!
Glad you found it fun tho! :)

I'm sure you'll be fine. :) just go do another trackday and overtake all them cars you were going past (especially those pesky MX5s that were everywhere!)
It was properly well driven, it is always good seeing an MR2 going sideways, the amount of people saying it can't be done etc etc, you prove it can be
I had the wrong set up and tyres in the damp done most of silverstone GP circuit sideways, that was a lot of fun

Sadly, the camera in that session was not on. I´ve salvaged some of the fun stuff when I had the camera on...




AdamR28

Glory. Now that's not a word I expected to see in this thread  :))  Thanks for the link @JB21

Thanks also for the kind words Phil and Pete - the car is pretty 'mobile' if you want it to be, but can be driven neatly as I hope my vids show. I know you don't always get on track with everything, but I had nothing at all come past all day and managed to keep up with the boosted kit cars (with the help of a little traffic  ;)  ).

It'd be awesome to have a blast in your car @pistol pete and you would be very welcome to have a go in the Munter too - thanks!

As we have discussed before, @Maurici has a certain Mediterranean flair when it comes to pedalling a car round, so the car does tend to make some quite funky shapes  >:D During the afternoon he really got the hang of it and seemed to enjoy the car more (I hope so anyway mate!). I find that the transition between brakes and throttle has to happen just a tiny bit sooner than something like an MX5 - I guess that is down to the rear weight percentage - and if you hang on too long before transitioning you really get stung with a big slug of oversteer. Tme it right though and the car dances nicely with mild countersteering while on full power. Much fun.


Lap times... It turns out, same as Cadwell, the car ended up exactly the same pace as Munter Mk1 (on slicks - and the layout tweak at Blyton is a bit faster) with a couple of consecutive mid 1:14s not displaying on the datalogger that I didn't have in the car at all at any point. Cough. I have no doubt Mr Poo would be faster on some proper tyres, but then it would go through brake pads faster, put more load through the ageing suspension components, need a second set of wheels for when its really wet, and give more chance of oil starvation - especially not comfortable with this as it can burn 200ml in a long session! Weird that it doesn't appear to belch out any smoke though (thanks Pete).

I also feel that being mid-pack on a track day is the best place to be. For a competition car, sure, make it as fast as you can, but minimising the amount of overtakes (both overtaking and being overtaken) seems to make track days more enjoyable. I've tried both ends of the spectrum (completely bog standard 1.0L Micra & 550bhp/ton kit car on slicks) and decided I like being mediocre  ;)

Having just one set of wheels / tyres is much less of a pain too, again for competition having wets and drys and something in between is ideal, but to just turn up, burn some fuel, share the car with some mates, and go sideways a bit no matter what the weather I think it works well. I can't say I'm not tempted by some 888s or AR1s or something, but I am 99% sure the next set of tyres that go on with have 'ECO' on the sidewall again!


On that note: that's 4 days completed now, 1 of them very wet, another half wet, and 2 dry (a pretty good approximation for the UK!), and the tyres look to have over half tread remaining overall - they'll easily do another 4 days. I figure that to £35's worth of tyres per track day, which will do nicely. Obviously the rears wear faster cos there's more weight there, but with them all being on the same wheels and the same tyres I have just rotated them. Blyton is a good one for evening out left-right tyre wear too!

Brake pads... the rears started wearing a bit too fast at Blyton, they're a bit over half done now (fronts still no visible wear). It was a hot day, Blyton is hard on brakes, and I think we reached the top of their 'window'. The rear brakes also definitely lock first if you really press on too, so the planned tweaks are: Step 1) fit that bias valve, Step 2) add brake cooling if that doesn't even out the wear. Average cost per track day: about a fiver.

Damping... we actually took a bit off the damping (now at 0.5 turns from full stiff all round) and the car felt better because of it. May go softer again next time as it is still way stiffer than the theory dictates and I run other cars.

I had been trying to use a lot of rebound to calm the car down during those crazy 'fling itself off the track backwards' oversteer moments, but as Maurici said above it turns out that seems to have been almost exclusively down to dynamic toe at the rear. With the rear ARB stiffened up (I modified the drop link and added an adjustable clamp) it really settled the car down on power / corner exit, while (as you would expect) also making the front end point in with more gusto.

Oil consumption - seems about the same, maybe a little better. Got through about 40L of fuel and didn't use a full 1L of oil, more like 750ml this time. Other than oil and fuel, the car needed nothing all day once again  8)  Fuel and oil cost per day: About £60

Have settled on 35 front and 40 rear for tyre pressures. The car drives just fine like this and tyre wear is pretty even. Obviously the very outside edges are getting a bit feathered but that's to be expected!

Total track day 'normal consumables' cost: Approx £100. I'll take that, and suggest nobody else does the same maths in a fully honest way if you don't want a shock  :))

JB21

Great write up Adam, and totally agree that mid-pack is most fun on track days. I always seem to put in my fastest lap of the day chasing faster cars.

How come your tyre pressures are so high compared to OE spec? I currently only run 26 front and 30 rear with AR1's, you reckon these should be bumped up?

Maurici

Quote from: AdamR28 on July  7, 2021, 09:16As we have discussed before, @Maurici has a certain Mediterranean flair 

I genuinely dont know what you are talking about.

AdamR28

Phil, I run them so hard to get a bit more feedback from the tyre and stop them wobbling around. The sidewalls are a lot less stiff than a proper track tyre, so you need the extra pressure to add stability. The tyres are effectively a spring - sidewall stiffness plus air pressure stiffness. I would say you're in the right window for the AR-1s, defo.

I did a bit of YouTube stalking from your latest Blyton lappage (slightly tweaked / faster layout for my lap) - basically it looks like we need to get together on track sometime and have a play (with you in front so I can have a tow and try to keep up)!

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@JB21

Also grabbed a screenshot of the data from two consecutive laps after lunch. Pleased with the consistency, and that braking and lateral Gs are now clsoer to each other (confirms I was being a wuss on the brakes previously!).

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JB21

Quote from: AdamR28 on July 11, 2021, 13:25Phil, I run them so hard to get a bit more feedback from the tyre and stop them wobbling around. The sidewalls are a lot less stiff than a proper track tyre, so you need the extra pressure to add stability. The tyres are effectively a spring - sidewall stiffness plus air pressure stiffness. I would say you're in the right window for the AR-1s, defo.

I did a bit of YouTube stalking from your latest Blyton lappage (slightly tweaked / faster layout for my lap) - basically it looks like we need to get together on track sometime and have a play (with you in front so I can have a tow and try to keep up)!

You cannot view this attachment.

@JB21

Also grabbed a screenshot of the data from two consecutive laps after lunch. Pleased with the consistency, and that braking and lateral Gs are now clsoer to each other (confirms I was being a wuss on the brakes previously!).

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Love it Adam. I do exactly the same things with data, very close indeed. 100% we'll get out, let me know once your booking and I'll jump on it with you.

We'll go out and do a few laps, with you on your eco specials, me on AR1's or slicks. Then come back in and you can lend my wheels with AR1's or slicks and I'll go out on your eco specials, just to see the difference.

Then you can take my car out on slicks and show me how its done. I reckon you could push a 1:09 with optimum conditions👌

AdamR28

Well, a bit of a bump here! The car has done the odd track day since the last post, but we've been too busy enjoying it to do write-ups etc. I think I have some clips from Oulton though, which I will dig out and upload.

Handling has been calmed down significantly with the addition of more rear toe in, and the oil consumption issue has reduced somewhat too. I'd say it's more of a 1-and-a-bit stroke than a 2 stroke now, if you see what I mean! So, consistent high rpm / load running *can* start to unstick the rings  8)


I've also decided to downsize my fleet so would like to move the car on. If anyone on the forum wants it, I'll take offers in the region of £1200, and happy to attend a track day with you to help you get comfy with the car.

I've priced it such that even if you don't like it, you could break it and recoup your money (and maybe more) from:

- Koni Sports with Tein springs (I bought them new so they've not done a lot of work)
- GRP kit car seats and Schroth harnesses
- 6 speed gearbox which works perfectly
- Rear subframe is in great condition
- Wishbones, radiator, front brake calipers (rear ones have no handbrake function), fuel tank etc obviously all work well
- Custom PPE style 4-1 stainless mainfold / exhaust, no cat, makes about 98dB, ideal for track / race car
- Wheels / tyres (14" MX5 alloys)

Every body panel has some sort of hole / dent / damage so they would only be fit for the scrap man.

Of course, I'd love to see the car used as a track hack like I have, but I'm just thinking practicalities as I know this sort of thing is not for everyone!

Any questions shout up  :D

JB21

Quote from: AdamR28 on June 30, 2022, 14:13Well, a bit of a bump here! The car has done the odd track day since the last post, but we've been too busy enjoying it to do write-ups etc. I think I have some clips from Oulton though, which I will dig out and upload.

Handling has been calmed down significantly with the addition of more rear toe in, and the oil consumption issue has reduced somewhat too. I'd say it's more of a 1-and-a-bit stroke than a 2 stroke now, if you see what I mean! So, consistent high rpm / load running *can* start to unstick the rings  8)


I've also decided to downsize my fleet so would like to move the car on. If anyone on the forum wants it, I'll take offers in the region of £1200, and happy to attend a track day with you to help you get comfy with the car.

I've priced it such that even if you don't like it, you could break it and recoup your money (and maybe more) from:

- Koni Sports with Tein springs (I bought them new so they've not done a lot of work)
- GRP kit car seats and Schroth harnesses
- 6 speed gearbox which works perfectly
- Rear subframe is in great condition
- Wishbones, radiator, front brake calipers (rear ones have no handbrake function), fuel tank etc obviously all work well
- Custom PPE style 4-1 stainless mainfold / exhaust, no cat, makes about 98dB, ideal for track / race car
- Wheels / tyres (14" MX5 alloys)

Every body panel has some sort of hole / dent / damage so they would only be fit for the scrap man.

Of course, I'd love to see the car used as a track hack like I have, but I'm just thinking practicalities as I know this sort of thing is not for everyone!

Any questions shout up  :D

Shame you're selling up Adam  :(

Chilli Girl

Yeh, that is a great shame - I used to enjoy reading and watching your vids and how you were getting on with it Adam.
Ex owners of Chilli red facelift 52 reg called Chilli, silver 55 reg called Foxy and blue pfl W reg MR-S called Sapphire. Now 2 less!

Petrus

Change is inevitable.

Very happy to read that Adam is offering the fun to be continued at a bargain.

Iain

Sad news Adam, but nothing lasts forever. Hopefully someone snaps the munter up for some fun