'00 track car

[Alex Knight]

My 2ZZ is a road car, so not a direct comparison. It's extremely tidy, with lots and lots of work done, plus it's 110% reliable. Some very nice parts on it too.

I'd value my car at circa £12K right now.

For context, I sold it for £4K in early 2015.

[JB21]

My 2ZZ is a road car, so not a direct comparison. It's extremely tidy, with lots and lots of work done, plus it's 110% reliable. Some very nice parts on it too.

I'd value my car at circa £12K right now.

For context, I sold it for £4K in early 2015.

£12k seriously? How have you got to that figure?

[AJRFulton]

I guess when cars get to this age, they are worth what people will pay - especially with custom specs.

A friend has a Championship white, 2001 Civic type R, with full red carpets with black/black interior. Totally original with 80k miles.

Car is immaculate, I'd go as far as saying it is probably top 25 cleanest Mk1 Type R's in the country and IMO the most desirable (and rare) colour combo. He turned down an offer of £23k for it - which was very decent - but his logic is selling an appreciating asset and how do you replace it (he only uses it a handful of times a year).

I don't know whether to sell or not - I'm just fed up with it - I want a race car that works.

[Iain]

Would putting back in a humble 1zz not float your boat then? Id guess you would race in a different class/series, but much more chance of getting the reliability you want.

This thread is exactly why im leaving a 1zz in my track car. Sure we know its not very quick in a straight line, but i dont care about that one bit. The fact it works is all i need and want.

[Joesson]

@AJRFulton said:
I don't know whether to sell or not - I'm just fed up with it - I want a race car that works.

You may well be closer to the perfect race car than you think!

From Autosport.com:
I always thought that this quote was from Innes Ireland in speaking about the Lotus cars...

I was curious, so I did some checking... and I found this reference:
"Famous Quotes From F1"

... in '59 I ran out of brakes four times -- and I don't mean they didn't work very well, I mean I had none. Like the main oil line had sheared. You know, so that oil, you know, when you put your foot on the floor, the oil just went squirting out into the atmosphere. I'd always believed that Colin was close to genius in his design ability and everything, if he could just get over this failing of his of making things too bloody light. I mean, Colin's idea of a Grand Prix car was it should win the race and, as it crossed the finishing line, it should collapse in a heap of bits. If it didn't do that, it was built too strongly.

-Innes Ireland

[Alex Knight]

£12k seriously? How have you got to that figure?

Quite easily. As has been noted above, something is worth what someone is willing to pay, and I believe that someone would pay that.

For example, the seats alone are worth £1500-£2000 (and increasing) and that's without the genuine Recaro subframes.

That's getting on for half of what I first sold my car for.

[1979scotte]

If you don't love it anymore sell it.
Getting rid of mine was one of the best decisions I've made in life.
People with 100% reliable unmodified cars probably cant understand how much of a drag it becomes.

[J88TEO]

I used to own a garage and I have advised customers to get rid of their troublesome cars...

[moca2cv]

I guess when cars get to this age, they are worth what people will pay - especially with custom specs.

A friend has a Championship white, 2001 Civic type R, with full red carpets with black/black interior. Totally original with 80k miles.

Car is immaculate, I'd go as far as saying it is probably top 25 cleanest Mk1 Type R's in the country and IMO the most desirable (and rare) colour combo. He turned down an offer of £23k for it - which was very decent - but his logic is selling an appreciating asset and how do you replace it (he only uses it a handful of times a year).

I don't know whether to sell or not - I'm just fed up with it - I want a race car that works.

Always disheartening to read stuff like this but totally get where you're coming from - been there, done that!

For what it's worth I'd put a 1ZZ in and just enjoy it. I've got a whole bunch of juicy bits to take the 1ZZ to 170bhp ish and I've put that all on hold because, frankly, it's pretty good fun as it is and I can beat on it all day long with zero concerns I just added an oil cooler so all I have to do is take wee breaks now. It's still a very capable car on track and will show up plenty others in the right hands! (Just not mine 😂)

[Iain]

For what it's worth I'd put a 1ZZ in and just enjoy it. I've got a whole bunch of juicy bits to take the 1ZZ to 170bhp ish and I've put that all on hold because, frankly, it's pretty good fun as it is and I can beat on it all day long with zero concerns I just added an oil cooler so all I have to do is take wee breaks now. It's still a very capable car on track and will show up plenty others in the right hands! (Just not mine 😂)

How did you manage to get inside my head and steal all my logical thoughts! 😜

[AJRFulton]

Would putting back in a humble 1zz not float your boat then? Id guess you would race in a different class/series, but much more chance of getting the reliability you want.

This thread is exactly why im leaving a 1zz in my track car. Sure we know its not very quick in a straight line, but i dont care about that one bit. The fact it works is all i need and want.

I'd still be in the same class with a 1ZZ, just 3 seconds a lap slower.

Finding other series means travelling a long way, so kind of stuck with what is available in Scotland. Even getting to my next closest tracks - Croft is 4.25hrs and Oulton Park is 5hrs with a trailer. Getting to the decent English series, you're talking 9-18hr round trips for each event. Reality is for the time and effort - it's a once a year treat.

[Mark A]

I was in a similar position when building my weekend/track day toy.I did the conversion over lock-down on my own and nearly killed myself a few times, no 2 post lift etc. Once I'd finished it starting leaking from the rear main seal so gearbox off and replaced but I needed a month off from it as it was starting to get me down but I would say hang in. Now everyday feel a little low I grab the keys and go for a little drive, it puts a smile on my face after about 2 mins of driving, makes all the hard work worth while.

[AJRFulton]

Been slowly working back to find the problem - which thanks to some help from JSpec - I've identified as a fueling issue. Seems the pump isn't working. I had been using a (eBay) fuel pressure gauge, but seems sensor is gubbed - as soon as ignition comes on it shows pressure which has fooled me. Taking the pipe off there is no pressure.

Traced the fuel pump wires back, and I've never actually been behind my dash. Opened it to find the above, which is pretty nasty. Whilst I've did a lot to this car, I bought it as a prepped race car (was never meant to be a project)

As said before a cat had gotten into the car over winter and used the loom as a scratch cord, but it's pulled out wires behind here too. So my guessing, after unwrapping a lot of tape, one of these loose connections drives the fuel pump. Where they go though!!

I've already replaced the looms, and put on the MWR 2ZZ conversion rig. As soon as I get this running again that is getting torn out and started again. Everything is getting labelled too. Given the rest of the car was done to a decent standard - surprised how bad the wiring is!

[JB21]

Been slowly working back to find the problem - which thanks to some help from JSpec - I've identified as a fueling issue. Seems the pump isn't working. I had been using a (eBay) fuel pressure gauge, but seems sensor is gubbed - as soon as ignition comes on it shows pressure which has fooled me. Taking the pipe off there is no pressure.

Traced the fuel pump wires back, and I've never actually been behind my dash. Opened it to find the above, which is pretty nasty. Whilst I've did a lot to this car, I bought it as a prepped race car (was never meant to be a project)

As said before a cat had gotten into the car over winter and used the loom as a scratch cord, but it's pulled out wires behind here too. So my guessing, after unwrapping a lot of tape, one of these loose connections drives the fuel pump. Where they go though!!

I've already replaced the looms, and put on the MWR 2ZZ conversion rig. As soon as I get this running again that is getting torn out and started again. Everything is getting labelled too. Given the rest of the car was done to a decent standard - surprised how bad the wiring is!

Glad you've found the issue, must be a relief. It all makes sense now if the fueling was out. Guessing you never had a engine check light for this issue?

[AJRFulton]

Glad you've found the issue, must be a relief. It all makes sense now if the fueling was out. Guessing you never had a engine check light for this issue?

I run an aftermarket ECU. Dash is bare minimal.

There is a theme round here when it comes to other people doing the work!

Does it run now if you put 12v direct to the pump wires?

That is tonights job. Going to pop down to see Andy at J-Spec after work and nick another fuel pump assembly and loom - just incase the Walbro 255 has failed, a 2nd pump will easily eliminate that (very useful having J-Spec literally 5 mins from my house and Andy is great to deal with)

It's not in keeping with the rest of the car tbf.  The bodywork is a bit tatty with dinks and scrapes and bumper held together with tie wraps (most cars in a race paddock seen to tie wrap the bumpers on - logic being it does less damage when they get ripped off) - but it's a non-road legal race car so to be expected. Everything else had been done pretty much right, and have found very few bodge jobs...... until I went behind the dash for the first time in 3.5yrs of ownership.

To be fair the actual layout of the switches, dials, etc - isn't too bad (I do like the light up thermal circuit breakers instead of fuses) but..... it is a tangled mess and some of the connections are not the best, or been put together badly and as said.... a cat got into the car over winter and has pulled things out with its scratching - I'm not sure where the loose wires go. It probably isn't as bad a job as it seems, but the 10 point cage makes getting the dashboard out a chore, and even with the interior totally stripped and seat out - there still isn't much room in there. Perhaps the lack of room to manoeuvre is the reason why it seems to have been wrapped in fabric tape then stuffed into an area you can't really see - out of site, out of mind and all that.

I've changed the car a lot since I got it, although mainly spent 3yrs changing 2ZZ engines as they don't seem to like track use. Hoping this incarnation, essentially a brand new engine, fixes the problems (issue is the problems are varied, so can't pin it down to one thing).

[Mark A]

Are you sure it is not mice in the car and chewing the loom/wires?

[AJRFulton]

Are you sure it is not mice in the car and chewing the loom/wires?

Definitely been a cat, it has scratched all my old seat as well.... and sprayed urine to mark its territory, left hair balls........ and the biggest give away - I caught it in there! I suppose in a round about way, the plus side of having a cat in there.... no mice.

I have an access hatch in the bulkhead which I had left open over winter, despite the car being covered and indoors (I had pushed it into what was an old stable, it's an old farm building and cats can get in by jumping up on a wall and getting through a gap the eaves) there is still a way in. Tight squeeze, but a cat can get in.

[AJRFulton]

Ok.....

My engine is running but......

I spent the day with Andy down at J-Spec. The guy is an absolute star.

Pretty much fully rewired the car. Brought the wiring back OEM and will make relevant race scrutineering mods from here.

Aside from fresh harnesses, I also bought the MWR 2ZZ Conversion harness - keeps it all clean.

Anyway long story short....

My Apexi - engine doesn't run.
Spare Apexi Andy had - doesn't run.
Celica ECU - starts immediately.

I can't run the OEM ECU due to the top end work. Cannot work out why both Apexi units won't start the car. Mine worked fine with old (now broken) harness.

Any ideas?

[Alex Knight]

You're welcome to come over and try your Apex'i ECU(s) on my 2ZZ car if you like? That'd tell you definitively if the ECU is goosed.

I'm in Perthshire.

[AJRFulton]

Cheers Alex, I'm up your way all the time as my Mrs is from your neck of the woods but..... We are away on holiday as of midweek, so wouldn't be back up until end of August.

That said, surprised we didn't think of that today given Andy has a 2ZZ MR2. I'll ping him a message and drop that in on Monday to see if he could test it. Rules out everything then and 5 minute job to test.

I suspect both the Apexi units are fine - very unlikely to have 2 known working units fail - but something daft is stopping it starting. Although if it is gubbed I would be replacing with ECU master.

Only difference is my new loom is straight out a 1ZZ and unmolested (bar throttle body wiring mod), and I'm using the MWR plug 'n play conversion kit, rather than bodging a harness.

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-plug-n-play-adapter-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/

My old loom ended up a mash of repairs and broken wires, just with engine changes and work with the racing. With J-Spec 2 mins down the road, it's easier just to get another loom in future - that kit takes hours off the job.

I am running slightly larger injectors right enough. Lost faith in the OEM ones as they kept failing, so went aftermarket. Although would you expect those to fire on an OEM ECU and not an Apexi?

[Alex Knight]

You're welcome, no problem.

I'm also using the MWR harness. Presume you have bypassed the adapter harness for the immobiliser wires?

What size injectors are you using?

[AJRFulton]

450cc Denso injectors - MWR ones. Had 2x OEM injectors failing (one old, one new) so as said lost faith in them.

Immobiliser shouldn't be relevant with the Apexi? Never had any bypass on the old loom.



I reckon I'm going to keep the car dashless



Aluminium clad the centre console for the switches and gauges. About 15kg out the car. Gets it down to about 950kg.

[AJRFulton]

@Alex Knight

Gave my Apexi to J-Spec today, so see what he finds. However he has the modified loom rather than standard loom with MWR harness. Given my Apexi was last known working on a modified loom - assuming it works on his (will find out tonight). I may take you up on the offer of trying it on yours as that will then be as close to like for like as possible.

I'd be next passing your neck of the woods either the evening of Friday 12th or afternoon/evening Sunday 14th if you're about?

[Alex Knight]

@Alex Knight

Gave my Apexi to J-Spec today, so see what he finds. However he has the modified loom rather than standard loom with MWR harness. Given my Apexi was last known working on a modified loom - assuming it works on his (will find out tonight). I may take you up on the offer of trying it on yours as that will then be as close to like for like as possible.

I'd be next passing your neck of the woods either the evening of Friday 12th or afternoon/evening Sunday 14th if you're about?

Hi there,

You're welcome to come over on the 12th. Can't do the 14th though.

Keep me posted.

[AJRFulton]

Hi there,

You're welcome to come over on the 12th. Can't do the 14th though.

Keep me posted.

No probs bud. I'll let you know. As said away on holiday from midweek.