Modern progress

[Petrus]

I live in a bit of a time warp here so have a comparison daily.
The average age of the car is the region is over 15 y.o. 
Series 3 LandRovers by Santana, Lada Niva, Seat Marbella, Renault R4 are not weird exception as daily cars.
All are kept functionally safe by the downright OCD annual isnpection. All are on recent rubber.
Without exception driven with more prudence than the modern equivalents, certainly less fast.
I never ever have one on my rear bumper. Never ever are hazardously overtaken by one. Never ever blinded by one. Etc.
Pure coïncidence? or part of the price of progress in modern´safety´.

[1979scotte]

I live in a bit of a time warp here so have a comparison daily.
The average age of the car is the region is over 15 y.o. 
Series 3 LandRovers by Santana, Lada Niva, Seat Marbella, Renault R4 are not weird exception as daily cars.
All are kept functionally safe by the downright OCD annual isnpection. All are on recent rubber.
Without exception driven with more prudence than the modern equivalents, certainly less fast.
I never ever have one on my rear bumper. Never ever are hazardously overtaken by one. Never ever blinded by one. Etc.
Pure coïncidence? or part of the price of progress in modern´safety´.

As always your bit of Spain is nothing like the bit I've known for over 30 years.

[Joesson]

@1979scotte I did respond to your question about my early years in motoring but for some reason or other it didn't post, but that has been the subject of another thread!
I won't repeat myself but the biggest difference, for me, between vehicles of then and now is reliability. But that is double edged as a bag of tools some fuses and a roll of insulating tape could often get you going. Not so much chance of that today.
Driver and passenger comfort is also much better and simple safety aids such as anti freeze screen wash make a difference!
I drove as part of my job for 47 years, so a good many miles, in all weathers and times of day and night. "The elderly", of which I am now part cannot be categorised by the number of their years alone but in the content of those years.
I spent many of those years driving and I believe my anticipation is improved because of that. My reactions may not be as fast now as when I started  out but the net result, because of my increased awareness/ anticipation meets my needs, not least of all because I likely drive slower now than then.
Patience/ impatience I suggest is a factor in the outcome of many situations in all aspects of life and not least of all in driving.
Interesting to note that driving a 3L Rover  in the 60's was the place to be, wouldn't disagree, certainly not so comfortable in the more mundane. Not so dissimilar today. I drive a Fiesta, the same size as a Focus that I had one time in my working life, and in that I am very aware of my vulnerability compared to the SUV crowd.
A rule of the road that I learnt many years ago is : Might is Right.
I suggest that is more true now than then as there are more comparatively larger vehicles on the road, and they are all large when you are in a 2.
Come to that a Fiesta as well.

[scm2004red]

Modern cars are safe in the modern environment, 60's cars were safe in the 60's environment. I would have been just as dead in my 60's Rover when flattened by a contemporary 20 tonne artic, as in a modern Mercedes flattened by a current 40 tonne artic.

By being on here we are all driving a car 20 years behind modern technology, is that therefore unsafe?

I drive my 40 year old Porsche happily in modern traffic aware that it has none of the driver aids of today, always aware that some idiot in a Clio will attempt to "brake test" me by jumping in front of me at a roundabout to prove that he can, or an equal idiot wants to prove he can out perform a Porsche at the traffic lights GP, driver awareness when using an older car is paramount, largely overtaken by todays reliance on in car warnings.

In the 60's F1 drivers rarely lived to an old age, nowadays the F1 car is enormously safe for the driver.

Progress is inevitable, safety and comfort improvements are inevitable.

[shnazzle]

Christ are you guys still going?

[scm2004red]

it's boring at the moment and it's nice winding up young Mr Scott

[Dev]

 Distracted driving is the biggest problem in my country. Not just for accidents but also for those that drive under the speed limit while texting and talking.  We have laws now for this but its still not followed. I use to ride sport bikes in my youth and wanted to buy another but I cant with the way people drive these days. From what I have seen I wouldn't want to ride a bicycle.  Every day there is someone driving slow and weaving slightly out of their lane. 
 
  You can do everything in your power to be safe driver but all that effort is wasted because of one bad driver that is not in your control. After bing in two bad car accidents I stay home if the roads are not ideal.

[Joesson]

Christ are you guys still going?

Not quite sure how to take that Mr V O!

[Joesson]

Distracted driving is the biggest problem in my country. Not just for accidents but also for those that drive under the speed limit while texting and talking.  We have laws now for this but its still not followed. I use to ride sport bikes in my youth and wanted to buy another but I cant with the way people drive these days. From what I have seen I wouldn't want to ride a bicycle.  Every day there is someone driving slow and weaving slightly out of their lane. 
 
  You can do everything in your power to be safe driver but all that effort is wasted because of one bad driver that is not in your control. After bing in two bad car accidents I stay home if the roads are not ideal.

Well, it is said that "things" go in three's so maybe not a bad idea!

[Joesson]

So, does this "modern progress" mean that de coking and valve grinding are now no longer a thing?

[Petrus]

By being on here we are all driving a car 20 years behind modern technology, is that therefore unsafe?

and worse still; a small light cabrio :-)

driver awareness when using an older car is paramount, largely overtaken by todays reliance on in car warnings.

Nice wording of the Peltzman effect indeed.

In the 60's F1 drivers rarely lived to an old age, nowadays the F1 car is enormously safe for the driver.

Progress is inevitable, safety and comfort improvements are inevitable.

Nevertheless I would happily swap current day ´safe´ cars for the safe sex of those days.

[Petrus]

I suggest that is more true now than then as there are more comparatively larger vehicles on the road, and they are all large when you are in a 2.
Come to that a Fiesta as well.

The average car is way larger, above all heavier.
How many cars weighed around 2000 kilos even just 20 years ago? Never mind the eighties when electronic ignitions and safety belts were such an improvement.
Just have a look at the model development and the ligtweight cars nowaday.
Heck, even the drivers license categories have been adapted to a heavier category cars. The same level of competence is now good for WÁY heavier vehicles. Like heavier vehicles are not more of a challenge to control and not cause more havoc.
Nothing to do with safety; just money for industry and state.

[1979scotte]

I suggest that is more true now than then as there are more comparatively larger vehicles on the road, and they are all large when you are in a 2.
Come to that a Fiesta as well.

The average car is way larger, above all heavier.
How many cars weighed around 2000 kilos even just 20 years ago? Never mind the eighties when electronic ignitions and safety belts were such an improvement.
Just have a look at the model development and the ligtweight cars nowaday.
Heck, even the drivers license categories have been adapted to a heavier category cars. The same level of competence is now good for WÁY heavier vehicles. Like heavier vehicles are not more of a challenge to control and not cause more havoc.
Nothing to do with safety; just money for industry and state.

That's just not true in the UK my licence valid from 1996 allows me to drive much much heavier vans and trucks than some of my younger colleagues who passed in say 2010

[Petrus]

That's just not true in the UK my licence valid from 1996 allows me to drive much much heavier vans and trucks than some of my younger colleagues who passed in say 2010

Looked at the changes for category B (passenger cars) per 2021 yet?
Buy hey, maybe we´ve stumbled upon tet another Brexit windfall for the green island!

[1979scotte]

That's just not true in the UK my licence valid from 1996 allows me to drive much much heavier vans and trucks than some of my younger colleagues who passed in say 2010

Looked at the changes for category B (passenger cars) per 2021 yet?
Buy hey, maybe we´ve stumbled upon yet another Brexit windfall for the green island!

Won't effect me.
My licence is valid until 2049.

Also I've spell checked for you. 😉

[Petrus]

Won't effect me.
My licence is valid until 2049.

Which explains so many elderly who should not drive, driving over your islands... ;-)

[Joesson]

That's just not true in the UK my licence valid from 1996 allows me to drive much much heavier vans and trucks than some of my younger colleagues who passed in say 2010

Looked at the changes for category B (passenger cars) per 2021 yet?
Buy hey, maybe we´ve stumbled upon tet another Brexit windfall for the green island!

Time changes everything.
My Father drove motor cycles, combinations and cars legally but never took a driving test.
I passed my test in January '63 and could drive all manner of vehicles, iirc up to 3 tons capacity and 14 seats.
I only drove 3 tonners a couple of times and a small bus similarly.
When a driver reaches 3 score and ten ( that's years, not points!) a licence has to be renewed. To keep the larger capacity vehicles a test is necessary as is extra payment.
I chose not to keep the licence for larger vehicles.
The licence has to be reapplied for every three years and a health declaration made.
I understand that awareness driving tests are available later in life.

[Joesson]

Won't effect me.
My licence is valid until 2049.

Which explains so many elderly who should not drive, driving over your islands... ;-)

The Department for Transport publishes comparisons between the UK and other developed countries. Of the 38 countries looked at, the UK had the 3rd lowest rate of road deaths.

Drivers ages 16-17 continue to have the highest rates of crash involvement, injuries to themselves and others and deaths of others in crashes in which they are involved. Drivers age 80 and older have the highest rates of driver deaths.

The study finds that older drivers, who represent 15 percent of all licensed drivers, cause 7 percent of all two-car accidents (both fatal and nonfatal). Younger drivers, on the other hand, who represent 13 percent of all licensed drivers, cause 43 percent of all two-car accidents.6 Jul 2007

Who is most at risk? Older drivers, particularly those aged 75+, have higher crash death rates than middle-aged drivers (aged 35-54). Higher crash death rates among this age group are primarily due to increased vulnerability to injury in a crash.

Who Most Often Falls Asleep While Driving? ... In 82% of drowsy driving crashes, the driver was alone in the vehicle. Young People. Those between the ages of 16-29 are at the greatest risk, with two-thirds of these accidents occurring among drivers under the age of 30.

These comments were collected from a www search.

None seem to explain why "so many elderly who should not drive, driving over your islands... "

But then no reference to grinding axes either!

[shnazzle]

Let's keep this conversation away from generalisation as much as possible. 
If so, needs to be backed up  

The study of road incidents has entire government teams and private organisations behind it, so it's unlikely we're going to get a good full/valid picture here. 

It would be good to see some stats based on studies that have been done recently wrt driving tech, law changes, changes to exams, etc.

[Petrus]

None seem to explain why "so many elderly who should not drive, driving over your islands... "

Simply referring to the observations made by your fellow islanders my dear Joesson.

[scm2004red]

I sense a claim for age discrimination being brought by the Order of Ancient Drivers of Improper Motor Cars coming soon...

[1979scotte]

Won't effect me.
My licence is valid until 2049.

Which explains so many elderly who should not drive, driving over your islands... ;-)

No argument there.
The amount of people who can barely walk but still drive is amazing.
They'd never pass the fitness test for a commercial driver and it wasn't hard at least when I did it 20 years ago.

[1979scotte]

That's just not true in the UK my licence valid from 1996 allows me to drive much much heavier vans and trucks than some of my younger colleagues who passed in say 2010

Looked at the changes for category B (passenger cars) per 2021 yet?
Buy hey, maybe we´ve stumbled upon tet another Brexit windfall for the green island!

Time changes everything.
My Father drove motor cycles, combinations and cars legally but never took a driving test.
I passed my test in January '63 and could drive all manner of vehicles, iirc up to 3 tons capacity and 14 seats.
I only drove 3 tonners a couple of times and a small bus similarly.
When a driver reaches 3 score and ten ( that's years, not points!) a licence has to be renewed. To keep the larger capacity vehicles a test is necessary as is extra payment.
I chose not to keep the licence for larger vehicles.
The licence has to be reapplied for every three years and a health declaration made.
I understand that awareness driving tests are available later in life.

The only time I've ever heard anyone having there licence revoked was for eyesight and maybe heart conditions. My mother in law is the only person I know who voluntarily gave up her licence.
I won't be any different when the time comes. I won't want to give it up.

[Ardent]

The study of road incidents has entire government teams and private organisations behind it, so it's unlikely we're going to get a good full/valid picture here.

Could make for an interesting meeting,  when in some years time, they re-run the numbers and find nobody died in road incidents. Because every death, is now classed as a c19 death.
As bonkers as that is.
The 17, 27, 37, 47, 57,67, 77 year old stuffed it into a tree. But they "tested" positive for c19 less than 28 days ago.

[tomaky]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL1TNZ3JiFn/?igshid=zupc5d4z2wbi

Just going to leave this here.