Tyre availability

Started by Topdownman, September 15, 2021, 22:11

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Topdownman

I have been looking at tyre availability and have produced the attached document to show the current position as I find it very confusing when you are looking at new ones. Hopefully this will make things easier in making a decision.

Pre face lift sizes are still available in stock fitments and matched sets at present.

Facelift wheels are not available in stock fitments and matched sets in any manufacturer at the original bridgestone potenza speed rating of W. All the facelift rear sizes now are only made in a V speed rating which is less than the specified W of the old (no longer available) Bridgestone potenza tyre. Compromises therefore need to be made to fit facelift cars by changing either the front fitment or the rear (or fitting the V rated rear). This opens up more choice for both pre and facelift cars if you change one of the sizes.

It is worth noting that it is recommended to have the same speed rating on both axles and that the pre facelift oem specification is only V on the rear wheels which supports a change to the V rating but if you do go for a 215/45/R16 V rated tyre (or a non-standard combination), make sure you declare your new tyres to your insurer to cover yourself.

For discussion on which tyre to choose, the MR2ROC tyre database is here;

https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=3313.175

And recent discussion is here;

https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=69799.0

I found this test interesting because it includes 3 tyres on the list and helps you to prioritise what you want from your tyre when you make your choice;

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Auto-Bild-16-Inch-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm
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Gaz mr-s

I'd like to add a note of caution for anyone considering tyres, & looking at that test result.
The winner was the Kumho, - it was a surprise winner & Kumho had not publicised that they had upgraded the tyre, which the journalist would have expected. 
I couldn't find any other report to corroborate the Kumho, so when I needed to buy tyres I played safe.

Ardent


Topdownman

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on September 15, 2021, 23:16I'd like to add a note of caution for anyone considering tyres, & looking at that test result.
The winner was the Kumho, - it was a surprise winner & Kumho had not publicised that they had upgraded the tyre, which the journalist would have expected. 
I couldn't find any other report to corroborate the Kumho, so when I needed to buy tyres I played safe.

Its definitely a minefield!

Based on those test results, I would pick the 6th place Hankook because it did well it the areas that I value most.
"Racing" tax disc holder (binned), Poundland air freshener, (ran out), Annoying cylinder deficiency,  (sorted),
Winner of the Numb bum award 2017
Readers Ride

06 not V6 readers ride

shnazzle

Another word of caution. Tyre tests are usually done on something like a BMW 3-series. Not a mid-engined little sub-ton car.
Massively impacts the rating. For example, I know a lot of Subaru Impreza track guys are wildly unimpressed with the Yokohama AD08 believe it or not...

.. Everything is relative
...neutiquam erro.

1979scotte

Quote from: shnazzle on September 16, 2021, 08:30Another word of caution. Tyre tests are usually done on something like a BMW 3-series. Not a mid-engined little sub-ton car.
Massively impacts the rating. For example, I know a lot of Subaru Impreza track guys are wildly unimpressed with the Yokohama AD08 believe it or not...

.. Everything is relative

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Our cars are so different to almost anything out there. Then you have to factor in the small wheel and tyre size compared to most modern vehicles it's a minefield.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Gaz mr-s

Quote from: Topdownman on September 16, 2021, 06:45Its definitely a minefield!

Based on those test results, I would pick the 6th place Hankook because it did well it the areas that I value most.

Yep,  it's fared very well in a few of them.

Gaz mr-s

Quote from: 1979scotte on September 16, 2021, 09:06Our cars are so different to almost anything out there. Then you have to factor in the small wheel and tyre size compared to most modern vehicles it's a minefield.

It's not as bad as that, just look for tests for 16". 

1979scotte

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on September 16, 2021, 09:18
Quote from: 1979scotte on September 16, 2021, 09:06Our cars are so different to almost anything out there. Then you have to factor in the small wheel and tyre size compared to most modern vehicles it's a minefield.

It's not as bad as that, just look for tests for 16". 

That would be counter productive as I run PFL 15" wheels. 😉

I still feel the reviews need to be for cars of a similar type.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Beachbum957

Quote from: 1979scotte on September 16, 2021, 09:06I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Our cars are so different to almost anything out there. Then you have to factor in the small wheel and tyre size compared to most modern vehicles it's a minefield.
Tire tests are interesting, but are only applicable if the tires being tested have sizes to fit the MR2. Different markets have different options.  Most of the tires listed in the linked test are not even available here in North America, and the 1 or 2 that are sold here don't have sizes to fit the MR2.  So the test is basically useless.

What we need to do here in the US is find tire sizes that might fit, and then compare the meager options.  The problem isn't too bad for PFL, but 16" options for FL cars is very limited.  We run 16" wheels all around and basically have just a couple options if we want the same tire brand front and rear, and not one of them is in OEM sizes or even that close to OEM.  The options get slightly better if we go much larger in diameter or width, but not much.  Going back to 15" wheels is slightly better.

Quote from: shnazzle on September 16, 2021, 08:30Another word of caution. Tyre tests are usually done on something like a BMW 3-series. Not a mid-engined little sub-ton car

Even if you find a test that includes the tire you may want, does the test result apply to a small lightweight car? Since the tire construction has to vary somewhat based on size (such as SL vs XL), is the size they tested similar to what you need?

It is a minefield.

Gaz mr-s

I view them as the best independent guides available.  The Hankook k125 has been praised in several tests. FWIW, there a few owners have them & like them.
I await to see more tests featuring the Kumho.

Iain

..And this is why i dont bother with tyre reviews, too many variables to factor in.

Personal experience or reviews from trusted people are much more beneficial.

Dev

Quote from: Iain on September 16, 2021, 13:04..And this is why i dont bother with tyre reviews, too many variables to factor in.

Personal experience or reviews from trusted people are much more beneficial.

 The first thing I ask is how stiff are the side walls. If they say they are soft and comfortable I make a big pass on them.
   Everyones needs are different and not everyone has a wide range of experience or knowing what to look for in a tire except for the difference between the old tires compared to new ones that are still breaking in.
The other big problem is everyone thinks their choices are good because they double down on bad choices until the honeymoon period is over and the tires show their true colors.
 I found out what was good by actually trying my luck but once I found tires that agree with me I try to find the same set next time.


Zxrob

#13
I wish I had a £10 for every time tyres are discussed and the end result is the same

For most of us average Joe drivers, an average middle of the road brand will be sufficient for tootling about and driving like "miss daisy" on the UK's roads, unless you are a fast track day type or racing, stop kidding yourself

Tyre condition and correct inflation is more important imo

Of course, we all have a personal preference, dont we, ?

Rob

Adventure before dementia 😁

1979scotte

Quote from: Zxrob on September 16, 2021, 17:03I wish I had a £10 for every time tyres are discussed and the end result is the same

For most of us average Joe drivers, an average middle of the road brand will be sufficient for tootling about and driving like "miss daisy" on the UK's roads, unless you are a fast track day type or racing, stop kidding yourself

Tyre condition and correct inflation is more important imo

Of course, we all have a personal preference, dont we, ?

Rob



You're probably right along as they don't have soft sidewalls. When I went from Toyo T1R to Yoko AD08R  is was a revelation .
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Dev

Quote from: 1979scotte on September 16, 2021, 19:36
Quote from: Zxrob on September 16, 2021, 17:03I wish I had a £10 for every time tyres are discussed and the end result is the same

For most of us average Joe drivers, an average middle of the road brand will be sufficient for tootling about and driving like "miss daisy" on the UK's roads, unless you are a fast track day type or racing, stop kidding yourself

Tyre condition and correct inflation is more important imo

Of course, we all have a personal preference, dont we, ?

Rob



You're probably right along as they don't have soft sidewalls. When I went from Toyo T1R to Yoko AD08R  is was a revelation .

I have driven two cars that were fitted with Toyo T1Rs. It was very soft even at low speeds because of the sidewalls but the owners seems to like them and thats all that matters. People have different expectations and use case. One time I was stuck with a set of soft tires because I believed blindly in tire reviews and it was like a jail sentence until I could be done with them. Later on I found out they earned the name of novacanes.






The Other Stu

Quote from: Zxrob on September 16, 2021, 17:03I wish I had a £10 for every time tyres are discussed and the end result is the same

For most of us average Joe drivers, an average middle of the road brand will be sufficient for tootling about and driving like "miss daisy" on the UK's roads, unless you are a fast track day type or racing, stop kidding yourself

Tyre condition and correct inflation is more important imo

Of course, we all have a personal preference, dont we, ?

Rob


I had a set of T1Rs on mine at the correct pressure. I was driving like Miss Daisy in the rain and still managed a 360 spin when I hit a diesel / water mix coming off a roundabout on a dual carriageway.

The Ns20s and Rainsports I've run since are a completely different kettle of fish.

1979scotte

Quote from: The Other Stu on September 17, 2021, 09:35
Quote from: Zxrob on September 16, 2021, 17:03I wish I had a £10 for every time tyres are discussed and the end result is the same

For most of us average Joe drivers, an average middle of the road brand will be sufficient for tootling about and driving like "miss daisy" on the UK's roads, unless you are a fast track day type or racing, stop kidding yourself

Tyre condition and correct inflation is more important imo

Of course, we all have a personal preference, dont we, ?

Rob


I had a set of T1Rs on mine at the correct pressure. I was driving like Miss Daisy in the rain and still managed a 360 spin when I hit a diesel / water mix coming off a roundabout on a dual carriageway.

The Ns20s and Rainsports I've run since are a completely different kettle of fish.

Never found them to lack for grip rain or shine just robbed the car of its sharpness.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Zxrob

Quote from: The Other Stu on September 17, 2021, 09:35I had a set of T1Rs on mine at the correct pressure. I was driving like Miss Daisy in the rain and still managed a 360 spin when I hit a diesel / water mix coming off a roundabout on a dual carriageway.

The Ns20s and Rainsports I've run since are a completely different kettle of fish.

Sorry, not being a tit, but hitting diesel in those conditions would be an issue with most tyres

Rob
Adventure before dementia 😁

SV-3

It's difficult to understand Toyota specifying a W rated tyre (Facelift model rear tyre:86W) when the limiting factor is surely the V rating for the front tyre (Facelift model front tyre:81V).
Ah, I hear you say, it's not the speed it's the load!
Well, the load/speed rating for a 86W rated tyre is 530kg/168mph; the load/speed rating for a 81V tyre is 400kg/149mph.
The nominal top speed of the standard car is <130mph which gives an almost 20mph margin with a V rated tyre.
Better still, the majority of readily available stock size tyres come with a 90V rating of 600kg/149mph!
I wonder if Toyota had a limited number of options, from a load rating point of view, at the time of manufacture and perhaps wanted a major tyre manufacturer on board?
'03 Mk3 Chilli Red (Avon ZV7's: 26F/32R)
Sony WX-920BT
"Hardtop Cognoscenti"
"Stock Cubed"
"AirCon Aficionado"
"Keeper of the Beeper"
Ex '88 Mk1b White (Yokohama A539's: 26F/28R)
Jaguar (Avon ZZ5's: 31F/31R)
"Here we all are, rumours and old toffee abound." John Martyn

Dev

Quote from: 1979scotte on September 17, 2021, 16:27
Quote from: The Other Stu on September 17, 2021, 09:35
Quote from: Zxrob on September 16, 2021, 17:03I wish I had a £10 for every time tyres are discussed and the end result is the same

For most of us average Joe drivers, an average middle of the road brand will be sufficient for tootling about and driving like "miss daisy" on the UK's roads, unless you are a fast track day type or racing, stop kidding yourself

Tyre condition and correct inflation is more important imo

Of course, we all have a personal preference, dont we, ?

Rob


I had a set of T1Rs on mine at the correct pressure. I was driving like Miss Daisy in the rain and still managed a 360 spin when I hit a diesel / water mix coming off a roundabout on a dual carriageway.

The Ns20s and Rainsports I've run since are a completely different kettle of fish.

Never found them to lack for grip rain or shine just robbed the car of its sharpness.

I would exchange sharpness with liveliness. Tires that are softer than the original manufactures tires are a travesty. However not everyone can feel the difference or even cares as long as the tires grip and perform within reasonable specifications of not being dangerous. They are the most benefited because they have many more options at their disposal.



Porker

I've just had a complete set of the Hancook Ventus K125 put on my '05. While it's early days with only around 50 dry miles on so far, initial impressions are that they are at least as sharp as the AD08R tyres that they replaced. I'll update once I have covered more miles.

SV-3

#22
Quote from: Porker on September 26, 2021, 11:11I've just had a complete set of the Hancook Ventus K125 put on my '05. While it's early days with only around 50 dry miles on so far, initial impressions are that they are at least as sharp as the AD08R tyres that they replaced. I'll update once I have covered more miles.
Are they to OEM spec?
Edit.
Scratch the above query - they are covered in the @Topdownman analysis.
'03 Mk3 Chilli Red (Avon ZV7's: 26F/32R)
Sony WX-920BT
"Hardtop Cognoscenti"
"Stock Cubed"
"AirCon Aficionado"
"Keeper of the Beeper"
Ex '88 Mk1b White (Yokohama A539's: 26F/28R)
Jaguar (Avon ZZ5's: 31F/31R)
"Here we all are, rumours and old toffee abound." John Martyn

puma2

#23
Quote from: Porker on September 26, 2021, 11:11I've just had a complete set of the Hancook Ventus K125 put on my '05. While it's early days with only around 50 dry miles on so far, initial impressions are that they are at least as sharp as the AD08R tyres that they replaced. I'll update once I have covered more miles.

this will be interesting as for someone who has had a full set of ad08r to the hancook to here about there thoughts after some millage and run in for some time.

Gibla

#24
Ditched a 4x4 Skoda Yeti in mid-Summer on the understanding I would get some 'All Season' Tyres fitted onto one of my 2's

I had long ago fancied Michelin Cross-Climate on some vehicle or other then looked on the website to see what compromises could be made to obtain a set that could fit the car (standard sizes absolutely no chance)

If these are not a success, I will wait until I go down the full Winter tyre use

https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-crossclimate-2?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQjw18WKBhCUARIsAFiW7JyMNyRmy2ktjGnXQzoQ0CQMpZQKh6YdrU5vLx4m9eArTtTwLfUvdDcaAgwfEALw_wcB

After a wee bit of fiddling, I decided that 195/55R15 MI CRSCLIMATE 2 89V XL were the best compromise I could arrive with , mine is a FL model (I purchased a very cheap set of 4 x 15'' wheels beforehand) compared with a staggered set of 15 and 16'', so it will be interesting to compare their feel + other characteristics.

Very quick first impressions:-

road noise-normal
grip - unchanged on mixed wet n dry surfaces this am
braking from ~50mph on the above roads - normal
steering feel - normal

So hopefully they will fulfill what I was after, a tyre that I will use for Winter only, to be able to get up icy/snowy roads, without requiring a 4wd. , the very low weight of the car should help greatly here!!
stock 2001 green MR-S
stock 2003 solar yellow(currently for Sale, but ....)