Fuel consumption - E10?

[Beachbum957]

Been covered on here a few times.
 As you say too early to tell.
Will it run on e10? Yes.
Optimally? No.

Will you be able to tell the difference?  Probably not on modern cars.

Most reports of changes are more anecdotal than definitive.  For example, the actual measured energy difference be tween E10 and ethanol free is 3%.  The repeatability of vehicle fuel mileage measurement is no better than +/- 2% even under laboratory chassis dyno conditions.  All things being equal, any difference will be very hard to measure.

The other factor is the electronics and O2 sensors adjust for different conditions, so that can mask any change as well.

[Petrus]

Will you be able to tell the difference?  Probably not on modern cars.

Most reports of changes are more anecdotal than definitive.  For example, the actual measured energy difference be tween E10 and ethanol free is 3%.  The repeatability of vehicle fuel mileage measurement is no better than +/- 2% even under laboratory chassis dyno conditions.  All things being equal, any difference will be very hard to measure.

The other factor is the electronics and O2 sensors adjust for different conditions, so that can mask any change as well.

Done to near death this.

Modern sensors will adapt to the fuel so mask it yes.
For the rest the ´noticeble´ is about how sensitive the driver is ánd about what he/she chooses to want to believe.
Just like with different tyres, geometry set up, some kilos more/less in the frump.

Just came back with the old Volvo 340 and it is most definitely noticeble. The 1.4 Renault engine has ´hotter´ cams, sports filter and less restrictive exhaust. It is véry sensitive to the fuel used. On 95 (no ethanol) it ´dieseled´ upon switching off. On E5 (95) it does not. On E10 there is an almost flat spot when the second stage opens.
Also to keep up the same speed up steep mountain passes it needs to switched to ´sports´ earlier on E10 than on zero ethanol.

So you can bet there is a difference.
Just masked and easier to miss/ignore with modern power house engines.

[Ardent]

Will you be able to tell the difference?  Probably not on modern cars.

Might be true on a "modern" car MR2s are not modern.
My daily is 8 years old. A lot newer than my 2. But that is not really modern now either.
I could certainly tell the difference when the daily was fed some e10. And reflected in my mpg stats.

[Petrus]

Might be true on a "modern" car MR2s are not modern.
My daily is 8 years old. A lot newer than my 2. But that is not really modern now either.
I could certainly tell the difference when the daily was fed some e10. And reflected in my mpg stats.

8 y.o. is at least a gen younger than the MR2. Has a newer gen OBD2 (code storing memory!*) too ánd should meet twó emisslon levels tougher.

For mé a red neon warning is the übergründlich Mercedes ´not E10 compatible´ list which is a quite clear ´88 and pre RüF cat, cut off. 
E5 is probably too low a % to upset the apple cart or any parts but 10% is beyond the tolerance of the fuel design.

A ´chemical´ caveat: Ethanol is hygroscopic. Our much appreciated Jason used this to test the ethanol contents in pump stuff.
This has two sides for us. On the one it eliminates any water in the system by suckin´it up. The second, other side of that is that this renders the octane boosting of the stuff useless, in effect lowering the octane rating. If that is the case, the knock sensor of the engine will retard the ignition, prevent damage at the cost of performance.

* to clear the memory for MoT you need to drain the ECU capacitor. Is both off topic and illegal so not going deeper into it 

[A7DUO]

so would I be right in thinking, form most, on a run - an Mr-2 mk.3 returns 50mpg at best on E5/Super and 45mpg on E10?  Also was there any difference in fuel consumption on the facelift cars post 2003 or are they all the same generally? (although I suppose the 6th gear post 2003 could save a few MPG's on a run as it is a higher ratio over the 5 speed that added 6th)

[TheTigerUK]

I seem to average mid/late 30's using Shell E5

[Chilli Girl]

so would I be right in thinking, form most, on a run - an Mr-2 mk.3 returns 50mpg at best on E5/Super and 45mpg on E10?  Also was there any difference in fuel consumption on the facelift cars post 2003 or are they all the same generally? (although I suppose the 6th gear post 2003 could save a few MPG's on a run as it is a higher ratio over the 5 speed that added 6th)

Crikey, I don't think at best an MR2 has seen 50mpg - I did get 45mpg on a trip from southern England to Scotland once in my first facelift.  My current pfl tends to be just over the 30mpg mark.

[Petrus]

Crikey, I don't think at best an MR2 has seen 50mpg - I did get 45mpg on a trip from southern England to Scotland once in my first facelift.  My current pfl tends to be just over the 30mpg mark.

Fuel economy is as driver does 
Even mainly roof up vs mainly down makes a comparison futile.
For just about every make/model there are bell diagrams with a modal and average use with a wíííde max. - min. range at both sides.

E10 vs 100% petrol is only theoretically the caloric difference as the 1ZZ-FE is designed for 100% and suboptimal for anything else. About, a little over 5% is to be expected. Ditto the performance.

[A7DUO]

good points and good to know, thanks

[normanh]

44mpg the other day, nice run on M25 of 190 odd miles 19.76 litres fuel. Cant see a significant difference tbh between E5 and E10

Norman

[TheTigerUK]

I filled up yesterday (E5) and did a MPG check after I had stopped crying and my average was 31.5 MPG it goes to show I have been driving quite spiritedly of late, I shall have to go back to my more sedate steady driving

[McMr2]

I filled up yesterday (E5) and did a MPG check after I had stopped crying and my average was 31.5 MPG it goes to show I have been driving quite spiritedly of late, I shall have to go back to my more sedate steady driving

Using the throttle like an on/off switch, only way to do it in an mr2 

If you drive it gently 45+mpg is definitely attainable on a run.

[Ardent]

I filled up yesterday (E5) and did a MPG check after I had stopped crying and my average was 31.5 MPG it goes to show I have been driving quite spiritedly of late, I shall have to go back to my more sedate steady driving

It's the weight penalty of all your bling.

[Petrus]

Using the throttle like an on/off switch, only way to do it in an mr2 

By Jove! Is there on ´off´ mode? Could you have enlightened me befóre I starved the engine of lubricating oil drifting??