The nearly an Elise Project

Started by Danny Scarbro, February 22, 2022, 14:47

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moca2cv

Great build!

Quote from: Danny Scarbro on February 22, 2022, 22:03After that I'd like to get a rear wing made up to see if can make the rear feel abit more planted on the faster sections.

Check out T89 Racecar Wings - Cal makes proper wings, and his aluminium aerofoils are lighter than the carbon 'tuner' blades by some margin. My whole set up (1600mm wide, 220mm chord and 250mm legs) weighs barely 5kg. Can't recommend them highly enough.

As for losing weight... there's loads of little bits to get rid of! I binned the centre console, and relocated the cigarette lighter to under the steering wheel, and behind there is all the airbag gubbins - in the bin :) If you haven't removed the passenger airbag too that's a good few kilos. Rogue doorcards are a couple of kilos lighter than the stock ones, even without taking in to account the speakers... and so on and so forth. You'll get there :)

Danny Scarbro

Quote from: JB21 on February 26, 2022, 19:46Yeah I'll give you a shout if doing these tracks. Got all 3 on my list this year so we can catch up.

Current spec of mine below. Very well balanced, and puts out a decent lap on any track.



Thanks for the detailed info, do you find the 220 profile rear tyres ok on the 7" rim. (I have just fitted the same as finding 16x8 rears of a nice style/offset is a pain!

Any days planned yet?

Dan


Danny Scarbro

Quote from: moca2cv on February 28, 2022, 21:02Great build!

Check out T89 Racecar Wings - Cal makes proper wings, and his aluminium aerofoils are lighter than the carbon 'tuner' blades by some margin. My whole set up (1600mm wide, 220mm chord and 250mm legs) weighs barely 5kg. Can't recommend them highly enough.

As for losing weight... there's loads of little bits to get rid of! I binned the centre console, and relocated the cigarette lighter to under the steering wheel, and behind there is all the airbag gubbins - in the bin :) If you haven't removed the passenger airbag too that's a good few kilos. Rogue doorcards are a couple of kilos lighter than the stock ones, even without taking in to account the speakers... and so on and so forth. You'll get there :)

That's good to know regarding the wing, Will check them out! Ill try and document the weight loss bits I do, want to try and take some weight out the doors but maintain the stock doorcards. I hadnt thought about the airbag! Need to check that! Thanks


JB21

Quote from: Danny Scarbro on March 10, 2022, 10:15Thanks for the detailed info, do you find the 220 profile rear tyres ok on the 7" rim. (I have just fitted the same as finding 16x8 rears of a nice style/offset is a pain!

Any days planned yet?

Dan



Fine mate yeah. Also ran 225 AR1's with no issue.

Danny Scarbro

#29
Next little update on the MR2 is done, So we managed to get the Gearbox removed from the Elise and then switched it with the box from the MR2.

Will be interesting to see if there is much difference between the stock Honda LSD and the M-Factory one, hopefully not too much but if there is maybe it will push towards a plated one in the future.

Box was fairly easy to take out of the MR2 and replace albeit with the help of the guys at GIZ motorsport, with the Elise the whole engine had to come out, so another plus on the MR2 side of things!





At the same time I also fitted a Fidanza lightweight flywheel and genuine Honda Clutch kit (I cant stand the aftermarket kits and never really see the point on a NA build).



In terms of what this means to the ratios I used the following Calculator to show the difference, as you can see its now alot shorter. I'll never see anywhere like 140mph on the tracks I go to anyway so it was all wasted before!

Before;



After;



So what does it feel like? It so much more eager and really feels alot more torquey lower down the revs. Thankfully driving normally it isn't much worse as its still sub 4k at 60mph so I'm relieved about that. When your on a spirited drive it really has woken it up and it drops right back into the power band when changing gear, makes it feel like a really special engine/box set up....Cant wait to get the ITBs on now!

Cars due an MOT at the end of the month then will be booking a Cadwell in April to give it another shakedown before getting on with the ITBs/cams etc.

Really loving this little car. So pleased I bought it!

And a little pic behind the new daily.



Dan

moca2cv

Quote from: Danny Scarbro on March 10, 2022, 11:19Box was fairly easy to take out of the MR2 and replace albeit with the help of the guys at GIZ motorsport, with the Elise the whole engine had to come out, so another plus on the MR2 side of things!


Ah! You're the K swap at Giz!!! Ash and Tom said they had a special MR2 in :) Love those guys 🥰

Short ratios ftw, sounds like you've found the sweet spot!

A7DUO

#31
Great project and great work too - really impressive spec and work, well done.

Having come from the Elise and Caterham world in the past - was interesting to see the A048's going on as I've run these on Caterham's and I bet they were good on the track or road in the dry in your MR-2.  Honda K20 must be amazing in one too, but the 2ZZ is an impressive upgrade too, and your car even looked quite well sorted when you acquired it, but its really quite awe-inspiring now. 

Although the Caterham is obviously a different animal (and perhaps more comparable to the Elan copy that is the now very well received MX-5), I find it interesting comparing the MR-2 to the Elise - as they do have quite a lot in common.  Having had an early Elise S1 with MMC brakes and a later S1 111S more recently - there are great when they were nearly new and low mileage, but they are simply not that durable and get tatty quickly and then when you look at the price of a good one today an MR-2 is a no brainer now.

I suppose what I'm getting at is you have proved we can create a well sorted, track focussed machine that isn't dogged with the 'delicacy issues' of a Rover K-series block in an expensive Lotus chassis.  Rock on, great work, and enjoy the fruits of your labours - as I am sure you do regularly  ;D
Matt (2001 MR-2 Roadster, 2016 Caterham 420R, 2008 Mini Clubman CooperD)

Danny Scarbro

Quote from: moca2cv on March 14, 2022, 10:45Ah! You're the K swap at Giz!!! Ash and Tom said they had a special MR2 in :) Love those guys 🥰

Short ratios ftw, sounds like you've found the sweet spot!

That's the one, they're both really good guys, nothing but good stuff to say about them.


Danny Scarbro

Quote from: A7DUO on March 14, 2022, 21:10Great project and great work too - really impressive spec and work, well done.

Having come from the Elise and Caterham world in the past - was interesting to see the A048's going on as I've run these on Caterham's and I bet they were good on the track or road in the dry in your MR-2.  Honda K20 must be amazing in one too, but the 2ZZ is an impressive upgrade too, and your car even looked quite well sorted when you acquired it, but its really quite awe-inspiring now. 

Although the Caterham is obviously a different animal (and perhaps more comparable to the Elan copy that is the now very well received MX-5), I find it interesting comparing the MR-2 to the Elise - as they do have quite a lot in common.  Having had an early Elise S1 with MMC brakes and a later S1 111S more recently - there are great when they were nearly new and low mileage, but they are simply not that durable and get tatty quickly and then when you look at the price of a good one today an MR-2 is a no brainer now.

I suppose what I'm getting at is you have proved we can create a well sorted, track focussed machine that isn't dogged with the 'delicacy issues' of a Rover K-series block in an expensive Lotus chassis.  Rock on, great work, and enjoy the fruits of your labours - as I am sure you do regularly  ;D

Thanks for the kind words, it really is very similar to the Elise and with the power/theatre of the K20 is comparable on track to. Id like to get booked on a Lotus of Track day and see what kind of difference there is.

I just love the fact that its so much easier to live with, parts are readily available and things are alot easier to replace, for example if you have a little off you can buy and bolt on replacement panels/bumpers not have to get a whole new clam.

You make a really good point about the Elise's looking and feeling tatty. Suppose its the differnce between something that is built with everyday use in mind and something built purely to be as light as possible for performance and feel. (ill no doubt find this on track!)

Dan


Danny Scarbro

Few more little things happening with K20MRX this weekend.

The car is currently running a mix of Yellow stuff pads on the front and Apec on the rear and ultimatley they are just not strong enough for the track.

I tried to order some CL RC6endurance pads for the front however apparently the fit of them is quite poor so I have changed to the Winmax W6. I have heard good things about how long they last and still provide some good bite so will be good to see what they are like.

On the back I had purchased some PBS Track pads so im going to try them, Hopefully it wont make it too unbalanced.

Because I have now gone up to 16" wheels at the back with a wider tyre I also need to raise the ride height a little at the back to avoid any rubbing.

If I have enough time I want to get the exhaust exit modified so it comes out between the rear crash bar instead of below. This is a) because it sits really low to the ground atm and b) because i think it will look better! In time I would like to a get some form of flat floor and small diffuser so it will be out the way for this too.

And lastly I also want to modify the gear shifter, it is fairly high currently especially with the gearknob I use, because of the length of it I feel even at the shortest throw setting it is still far too long. So reducing the height of the shaft should solve this. I can always use some spacers under the whole assembly to raise it back up if it doesn't feel in as good position after.

Me & Matt are booked on at Blyton on Sunday so will be great to see how all the changes feel. So to recap since the last trackday the following will have changed;

Previous;
Tyres - Zestino Gredge 195/205
Wheels - 15" front & rear
Brakes - Yellow stuff/Apec pads
Gearbox - Stock EP3 Box with M-Factory LSD (4.764FD)

Current;
Tyres - Yokohoma AO48 205/225
Wheels - 15/16" staggered
Brakes - Winmax W6/PBS Track pads
Gearbox - DC5 box (Shorter 4/5/6) & LSD with M-Factory 5.417FD

Super excited about it  ;D

Dan

Alex Knight

That's a crazy short final drive.
You'll love it!

JB21

Didn't know PBS make pads for the ZZW30 callipers. Have you got a link to the pads?

Danny Scarbro

Quote from: JB21 on March 17, 2022, 17:22Didn't know PBS make pads for the ZZW30 callipers. Have you got a link to the pads?

Only do the rears' from what I can see mate, but here;

https://exoracing.co.uk/pbs-protrack-rear-brake-pads-for-toyota-mr2-1zz/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5ae009TN9gIVEoFQBh3kfwDhEAQYAyABEgK9hvD_BwE

Think I got mine off an ebay shop though

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401720253672

Dan

Danny Scarbro

#38
Not such a great update this one unfortunately, the prep for Blyton all started ok....

Got the pads all changed in the morning, suspension raised up at the rear and just a general check over.

The chaps at GIZ then helped out with sorting the exhaust tailpipe and shortening the shifter and I planned to pick the car up after a meal on sat night...





However when we went to start the car at about half 9 on the sat it wouldn't start. Checked the battery, tried some jump leads. Nothing. Seemed very much like the immobiliser not working as there was no fuel pump noise. Spent the next few hours checking different buts and pieces till we found a Relay that was shot. Popped a new one on and there was life!

Thank goodness, was very close to calling it a night on a few occasions but prevailed in the end!

Sunday morning came and took a steady ride over to Blyton, unfortunately on the way the car was spraying a light amount of oil out the back which was worrying. So when we got to Blyton we had a good look over to try and determine where it was coming from. At first looked like it was from the sump plug however after abit more searching it was a lot worse...

The fill/level plug was totally missing, so the oil had been spraying out of the hole when it was running and not leaking when stationary. I was gutted and thought surely it can't have not been put back on. Looking at the pic I took when the box was put back in it was clearly there but can't have been tightened correctly. Very annoying and worrying but these things happen.

So we went to the local B&Q and autoparts store to try and find a temp solution... turns out a radiator plug worked just enough to bung the hole. So we filled the box back up with oil and started our trackday!



The car felt absolutely brilliant! The gearbox has made such a big difference and made the car feel really sharp albeit it's strange getting used to the different gears for different parts on the track.

The brakes were night and day different to the Yellow stuff pads, I do however think I'll want to go abit sharper again as the initial bite is still abit lacking at speed.

The tyres also felt way better but to be honest it still needs more rear tyre as it was fairly oversteery! Think it would have been better with a 195/225 or 205/245 stagger.

Things took a turn for the worse on the first session after lunch though as a few laps in the box started popping out of gear, 3 times on one lap. Knowing that the box had been ran low on oil on the journey to the track we called it a day straight away and I limped the car home holding it in gear.

Absolutely gutted to say the least as the box has only just been put in I really hope there's nothing too damaged in there, fingers crossed it just needs some new bearings etc.

On a brighter note we took the Mx5 as a support car so got to finish the day in that so we didn't miss out on any track time. It was great fun in a totally different experience!

So what's the plan, well I've had a lot of outlays on the cars recently so I'm going to take the engine and box out the car on my next day off then park the car up for a few months whilst I concentrate on getting the Elise sold to free up some funds.

I'll then get the gearbox sorted, want to give the engine a freshen up and get the cams and itbs mocked up. I want to have a check over the subframe and future proof it and probably give the engine bay a kick of paint along with a painted rocker cover.

I'll then pop it all back in and get it booked it to have the new cams/itbs mapped before it's first outing.

This probably won't be for a few months but fingers crossed will get the car back better than ever for the start of summer.

So an all round disappointing weekend but having a few sessions in the car in the morning made me really happy and I know the cars going to be even better after.

Was also really nice to meet some other MR2's on the track, not sure if any of them were on here but nice to catch up.

We only put the go pro on at the start of the afternoon so may have got one of Matt's sessions and a few out laps of me swearing at the gearbox when it started popping out so I'll get them uploaded!

Dan



Alex Knight

Have you thought about fitting a 2ZZ gearbox?

Danny Scarbro

Had a day on the MR2 on Thursday and got the engine out.

Was my first time taking an engine out from the bottom, so much easier!

With the Subframe and ARB removed it came right out the back with the car just on axle stands. I must say though thank goodness the previous owner put in the bulkhead access panel, made getting at the back of the engine bay so much better!








Plan is now to clean up and paint the engine bay, treat the subframe and then put it back on its wheels whist we sort the box/engine. Then Ill clean up and paint the engine and box, fit the cams and itbs (fingers crossed they fit upto the access panel).

In other news Ive aquired a APR GTC-200 wing for the back, will be getting some mounts made up so it is level with the roofline, I believe this is the best area?

Dan



SV-3

"In other news Ive aquired a APR GTC-200 wing for the back, will be getting some mounts made up so it is level with the roofline, I believe this is the best area?"

Check with @Petrus?
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Petrus

Quote from: SV-3 on March 26, 2022, 13:56"In other news Ive aquired a APR GTC-200 wing for the back, will be getting some mounts made up so it is level with the roofline, I believe this is the best area?"

Check with @Petrus?

Just under it. The flow goes down and you want it just in the border zone between ´clean´ air and turbulence.

Al try to fit the base of the support no too far backwards.
Imagine the car as a plank on two rollers with each end sticking out a bit beyond the rollers. You´ll see why you want the down force where.

moca2cv

Quote from: Danny Scarbro on March 26, 2022, 11:41In other news Ive aquired a APR GTC-200 wing for the back, will be getting some mounts made up so it is level with the roofline, I believe this is the best area?

Dan


Great choice of wing! Re height, I went for in line with the top of the glass of the hardtop. Works alright as far as I can tell, and doesn't restrict rearward visibility either 👍🏻 My uprights were about 25cm tall. Can dig out the drawing if you like.

Danny Scarbro

Quote from: Petrus on March 26, 2022, 16:28Just under it. The flow goes down and you want it just in the border zone between ´clean´ air and turbulence.

Al try to fit the base of the support no too far backwards.
Imagine the car as a plank on two rollers with each end sticking out a bit beyond the rollers. You´ll see why you want the down force where.

Thanks Petrus, that's a really good analogy. I will aim for that area then!


Danny Scarbro

Quote from: moca2cv on March 27, 2022, 10:40Great choice of wing! Re height, I went for in line with the top of the glass of the hardtop. Works alright as far as I can tell, and doesn't restrict rearward visibility either 👍🏻 My uprights were about 25cm tall. Can dig out the drawing if you like.

I've just had a look at the Job you did on your, looks really good. If you could dig them out that would be brilliant!

Thanks

Call the midlife!

Lovely read, how happy are you with the gauges in that position rather than below your eyeline on the top of the dash?
60% of the time it works everytime...

thetyrant

Damn thats a shame on the gearbox but hopefully once thats sorted your good to enjoy it some more!

You know where we (Carbotech) are if you need more bite from the pads once you get rest of car dialed in :D

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

Danny Scarbro

Quote from: Call the midlife! on April  5, 2022, 13:59Lovely read, how happy are you with the gauges in that position rather than below your eyeline on the top of the dash?

Thanks, I have found it fine so far. Naturally you do have to look away quickly but also I'm normally on track with Matt so whoever is in the passenger seat always keeps an eye too. So it's handy been visible from both sides.


Danny Scarbro

Quote from: thetyrant on April  5, 2022, 14:47Damn thats a shame on the gearbox but hopefully once thats sorted your good to enjoy it some more!

You know where we (Carbotech) are if you need more bite from the pads once you get rest of car dialed in :D



Thanks a lot, I get the feeling will be In touch later in the year!