Now for the ol' razzle Shnazzle

Started by MrChris, March 20, 2022, 19:52

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shnazzle

Quote from: MrChris on July 12, 2022, 09:51Yeah and on the boot lid. Will be easy enough to sort out.

I'm really unsure what to do about the spring. I know the suspension is old, but I didn't really want to splash out just yet. I'm wondering if I can replace the spring with one from BC? Maybe I need to do a pair? Do you know the spec of the coilovers so I can source the correct spring?
Ah yeah I swapped the bootlid. Twice haha. That reminds me to maybe scratch out the one on our current car.

BC sells. Springs separately for sure. They are 4/6kg I chose, not the 5/7. But you can go for those of course if you want to replace all 4
...neutiquam erro.

MrChris

Quote from: shnazzle on July 12, 2022, 10:18Ah yeah I swapped the bootlid. Twice haha. That reminds me to maybe scratch out the one on our current car.

BC sells. Springs separately for sure. They are 4/6kg I chose, not the 5/7. But you can go for those of course if you want to replace all 4

Okay I'm just on to them now to see about a replacement.

Am I wasting my money do you think by only replacing the spring? Should I do it as a pair? Should I get all 4 springs redone? Should I just get totally new suspension? I don't really know how to tell if the suspension is past its best..?

1979scotte

We've all got different budgets.
Personally I would replace all of the front suspension.
It's the labour that costs.
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MrChris

Quote from: 1979scotte on July 12, 2022, 10:30We've all got different budgets.
Personally I would replace all of the front suspension.
It's the labour that costs.

I don't mind doing the labour myself as I've done everything else so far... just never done suspension. Thing is I've got coilovers so really I'm in for a full set, rather than just the front, and therefore knocking on for 1k in suspension parts alone.

Really want to keep the cost down for now, I just want to be able to drive it with a view to upgrading/updating later.

If I went back to stock suspension am I really saving all that much?

Topdownman

I would be happy just changing one spring while you decide what you want to do with the suspension. It is certainly OK to do that for MOT purposes. I would be more worried about changing dampers in pairs than springs personally.

Just my opinion though, I am no expert!

(PS I should mention I have a set of coilovers for sale which I think are 5/7 springs should you want to splash out!).
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Joesson


@MrChris
I've just replaced the front shock absorbers with KYB, repainted the OE springs, and replaced the dust covers. On the rear I had to remove the shocks to check the dust cover condition, these were almost as new! Touched up the paint on the springs and replaced all.
I don't follow your reasoning that you need replace front and rear because you have coil overs!

As @Topdownman said If I was undecided I would change just one spring as a very temporary measure, but as both springs are of the same age and suffered more or less equally I would  change springs in pairs for a longer lasting fix.

Joesson

@MrChris
A PS to the above having read another of your posts explaining your MOT situation.
I would replace the one spring, obtained from the coil over supplier.
Removing the assembly is likely not so different from an OE assembly.
The top mount is angled and needs to be placed correctly. I painted a mounting screw head for location relative to the body mount.

Below the arch you will need to remove the brake hose / shock fixing and the ABS bracket. Remove the top mount fixings and then the two large nuts and drive out Carefully) the fixing bolts.
Spring compressors are needed to remove and replace the spring.
Tighten / torque the top shock nut before refitting. I held the top mount in a vice, it won't torque up on the car.
Replacement is a reversal of the removal and located by your paint mark. Put the top nuts on loosely and then lift the shock to replace the bolts, Nuts to rear.
Tighten the top mounts tighten the strut bolts and the torque up the assembly and replace the removed brackets.
The cable handbrake operation is dependent upon the hydraulic cylinder position.
Tightening the hard lines will help!
If this alone does not work, check the free movement of the cables. If OK then have a look at @Carolyns How To on here.
If that does not work  I suggest removing the pad carrier and pads and resetting the piston by screwing it in( special tool needed) fully and then out a full turn to leave the slot in a N/S position.
Screwing in the piston will determine if the piston is stuck or not.
( Mine were well and truly stuck and I considered refurbishing the calipers but decided on replacements at £75 each, although I did refurb the fronts, following the How To on here.)
Replace pads and carrier.
Then follow the How To again.
Having read much about handbrake operation on here I am of the opinion that you will be chasing your tail if you don't follow that procedure.
Let us know how you get on.

AJRFulton

#57
I have a box full of springs for BC BR's - which to be honest... I'll never use again as I no longer have a BR suspension.

I honestly couldn't tell you the spring rates as they came with the car - however imagine they'll be at the stiffer end of things..... However, for the cost of postage, I'm happy to send a couple. Or if you're near the west coast of Scotland.

MrChris

Quote from: AJRFulton on July 13, 2022, 11:46I have a box full of springs for BC BR's - which to be honest... I'll never use again as I no longer have a BR suspension.

I honestly couldn't tell you the spring rates as they came with the car - however imagine they'll be at the stiffer end of things..... However, for the cost of postage, I'm happy to send a couple. Or if you're near the west coast of Scotland.

That is very generous of you, thank you. I'm in the West Midlands so it would be difficult to pick up though I'd love a drive up to Scotland :)

Please can you let me know what postage is and I can ping you the cost? I'll pop a donation to the club too.

AJRFulton


MrChris

Rightio a bit of an update:

- 2x banjo bolts now have new copper washers. When I took them off each one only had 1 washer :o Will bleed them later and attempt to readjust the handbrake for the 100th time.
- Non-matching VIN numbers scraped off.
- Screen wash topped up and what do you know? It works just fine  :-[

In answer to some previous comments:

@Topdownman I if I'm going to spend in the multiple 100s I'd probably just go new but thanks for pointing them out.

@Joesson Looks like @AJRFulton may be able to sort me out with a couple of new fronts. If so hopefully that will sort the front suspension for MOT and get me on the road. Having spoken with @shnazzle he advised the following:
1) undo 3 top mount screws
2) undo 2 big bottom bolts on body, leave top one in.
3) undo the top mount bolt
4) lift car to relieve pressure off spring
5) remove the big bottom bolt and pull strut out

This then hopefully negates the need for using spring compressors.

As for the handbrake I've followed @Carolyn guide and watched a couple of YouTube videos. I sincerely hope it's just the fact there's air in the system due to the banjo bolts leaking. The cables are moving back and forth.

Call the midlife!

The handbrake works off a worm drive and pinion kind of system directly pushing the piston from inside, I'm reasonably confident it's unaffected by any air in the system.
60% of the time it works everytime...

Joesson

#62
@MrChris
Banjo bolts need two washers and sometimes a special crush washer, ask me how I know!
I read of @AJRFulton 'S very kind offer.
Can't comment on the removing springs without spring compressors and maybe coil overs are somewhat different, never tried that, but please be aware there is potential energy in a compressed spring.
You will also need to compress the spring to get it back on again. Make sure you are not in line of fire!

As previously, if the caliper pistons  are not in the correct starting position you may be disappointed.

shnazzle

Quote from: Joesson on July 13, 2022, 17:24@MrChris
Banjo bolts need two washers and sometimes a special crush washer, ask me how I know!
I read of @AJRFulton 'S very kind offer.
Can't comment on the removing springs without spring compressors and maybe coil overs are somewhat different, never tried that, but please be aware there is potential energy in a compressed spring.
You will also need to compress the spring to get it back on again. Make sure you are not in line of fire!

As previously, if the caliper pistons  are not in the correct starting position you may be disappointed.
Ye of little faith. You use the car to compress the spring! Haha

Mind, this trick does not work on stock front suspension. Not enough space for the uncompressed spring to come out with the strut. Works fine on the rear.

Also this trick is not sanctioned by any mechanic :) But... I reckon it's a lot safer than a few spring compressors I've used!

Also... Coilovers springs are about the same length under pre-load as they are unloaded. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I'll let your spine decide
...neutiquam erro.

Carolyn

Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 13, 2022, 17:07The handbrake works off a worm drive and pinion kind of system directly pushing the piston from inside, I'm reasonably confident it's unaffected by any air in the system.

Except that it won't pump out the piston properly if it's spongy.
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Call the midlife!

Quote from: Carolyn on July 13, 2022, 17:39Except that it won't pump out the piston properly if it's spongy.
I always thought the handbrake was fully mechanical with the worm drive but I suppose it makes sense with the official operating instructions.
60% of the time it works everytime...

MrChris

Well the dodgy strut/spring is out. Having trouble unwinding part of it but I suppose that's to be expected. I *think* the damper is "okay". The spring was severed right through though and under no compression whatsoever, though I did use your method @shnazzle :) As for my coilover spanners, they're utterly useless for these BCs  >:(

AJRFulton

#67


I'm assuming the last number is spring rate?

If you could measure dimensions to confirm they are the same?

As an alternative to postage, I'm heading down to Dover next Saturday. If there is an M6 service station nearby?

Weight wise these are maybe 2.5-3kg each. Postage won't be crazy

Ardent

Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 13, 2022, 17:41I always thought the handbrake was fully mechanical with the worm drive but I suppose it makes sense with the official operating instructions.
Reminds me of this post.
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?msg=786930

shnazzle

Quote from: AJRFulton on July 13, 2022, 22:23

I'm assuming the last number is spring rate?

If you could measure dimensions to confirm they are the same?

As an alternative to postage, I'm heading down to Dover next Saturday. If there is an M6 service station nearby?

Weight wise these are maybe 2.5-3kg each. Postage won't be crazy
That's a lot of springs!

Diameter.length.spring rate is the decoding of the numbers.

62.180.005 and 62.200.007 would be the boyos.

10kg for hardcore track :) 
...neutiquam erro.

MrChris

#70
@AJRFulton
Wot @shnazzle said, fronts i need are 62.180.xxx - so the 005s should be ideal.

I'd prefer postage if that's okay as I need to get them on in time for MOT retest.

AJRFulton

#71
I'll get these packaged up tonight and sent off tonight or tomorrow. Not sure of the exact weight, but we'll be talking about a tenner postage.

I'll give you 2x 62.180.005 - given I only use my car on track, and I'd consider them stiff road springs, I would never use them anyway so.... they'll just be lying there forever. Condition wise, I'd imagine they are near new, I've never used them - just been in a damp garage for a few years. Powder coatings flaked away in a couple of bits and minor surface rust on them - you might want to treat them before putting them on.

PM me your address or the nearest Yodel store if you prefer.

MrChris

Quote from: AJRFulton on July 14, 2022, 09:49I'll get these packaged up tonight and sent off tonight or tomorrow. Not sure of the exact weight, but we'll be talking about a tenner postage.

I'll give you 2x 62.180.005 - given I only use my car on track, and I'd consider them stiff road springs, I would never use them anyway so.... they'll just be lying there forever. Condition wise, I'd imagine they are near new, I've never used them - just been in a damp garage for a few years. Powder coatings flaked away in a couple of bits and minor surface rust on them - you might want to treat them before putting them on.

PM me your address or the nearest Yodel store if you prefer.

I've sent you a PM with my address, absolute lifesaver!

So I've got the top mount off the shock, it was not budging yesterday, so have just whacked it with a hammer and it fell off. Lots of rust, the bearings are pretty bad but they move in the top mount - am thinking I can pump some grease back in to help them after giving a good wash out with something like WD40?

The rest of the shock needs a bit of clean but I'm absolutely astonished that the shock absorber seems fine. It compresses smoothly and returns smoothly. Watched a YouTube video on how to test shock absorbers and the movement is basically the same. Astonishing for shocks as old as these.

shnazzle

Quote from: MrChris on July 14, 2022, 12:06I've sent you a PM with my address, absolute lifesaver!

So I've got the top mount off the shock, it was not budging yesterday, so have just whacked it with a hammer and it fell off. Lots of rust, the bearings are pretty bad but they move in the top mount - am thinking I can pump some grease back in to help them after giving a good wash out with something like WD40?

The rest of the shock needs a bit of clean but I'm absolutely astonished that the shock absorber seems fine. It compresses smoothly and returns smoothly. Watched a YouTube video on how to test shock absorbers and the movement is basically the same. Astonishing for shocks as old as these.
Equally flabbergasted. Maybe it was the springs that needed replacing. I always thought the struts were past best
...neutiquam erro.

Carolyn

Quote from: MrChris on July 14, 2022, 12:06So I've got the top mount off the shock, it was not budging yesterday, so have just whacked it with a hammer and it fell off. Lots of rust, the bearings are pretty bad but they move in the top mount - am thinking I can pump some grease back in to help them after giving a good wash out with something like WD40?



I'd wash them thoroughly with petrol.  Yes petrol - get all the old dry grease out and force in plenty of fresh grease.  you don't want the bearings sloppy.  If, by 'pretty bad- you mean tight, then clean and re-grease will be fine.  If you mean loads of play - they're done.
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