Fibre vs copper washers

[Ardent]

I know this is hardly a biggie, but the sump plug washer.

Any benefits vs pit falls from using a copper washer vs a Mr T Fibre washer. If it is fibre. Think the last one looked more like ally.

I know it's something that only gets changed once or twice a year so cost is not really an issue, but it can be frustrating when you forget to get on. (then don't forget) but You can buy a bag of 10 or 25 of copper washers for not much more than the quid Mr T will relive you of. Just to have on standby.

[Joesson]

The last oil change I did I had the same predicament, no new replacement.
I believe it likely that the old metal/ fibre washer could likely be reversed, presenting a different surface to each mating face and reused. But I've not tried it and so walked to my local garage that I use for MOT and acquired a copper tubular type washer that I used with good effect,in that it didn't leak.
My recollection of early sump plug washers as being copper and iirc have refaced them on a piece of abrasive paper.
There is very little pressure on this important joint and at worst an annoying drip would be the result which would require a messy solution but unlikely a disasterous occurrence.
My nearest/ worst experience in this respect was having an oil filter come off around 200 miles after a Main Dealer service. This was signalled by a clunking noise and clouds of smoke in my rear view as the oil hit the exhaust!

[Topdownman]

I bought 10 of the ally/fibre ones off ebay years ago and still have a few left, they were very cheap as I recall. A lot cheaper than Mr T certainly.

[Ardent]

I bought 10 of the ally/fibre ones off ebay years ago and still have a few left, they were very cheap as I recall. A lot cheaper than Mr T certainly.

If you can locate them. Could you measure one.
From other post searches. I think an internal of 14mm. But thickness and width would be handy

[Ardent]

The last oil change I did I had the same predicament, no new replacement.
I believe it likely that the old metal/ fibre washer could likely be reversed, presenting a different surface to each mating face and reused. But I've not tried it and so walked to my local garage that I use for MOT and acquired a copper tubular type washer that I used with good effect,in that it didn't leak.
My recollection of early sump plug washers as being copper and iirc have refaced them on a piece of abrasive paper.
There is very little pressure on this important joint and at worst an annoying drip would be the result which would require a messy solution but unlikely a disasterous occurrence.
My nearest/ worst experience in this respect was having an oil filter come off around 200 miles after a Main Dealer service. This was signalled by a clunking noise and clouds of smoke in my rear view as the oil hit the exhaust!

Something like these?


Rather than flat

[Joesson]

@Ardent

Xactly.

[Topdownman]

If you can locate them. Could you measure one.
From other post searches. I think an internal of 14mm. But thickness and width would be handy

This is what I am talking about,
ebay

I still have 9 left so I must have bought 20! I assume that all toyota sump plugs are basically the same. I have been using them on my 1MZ engine for years with no problem, I cant remember if I was using them on the 1ZZ too but the measurements of mine are approx. 12mm internal and 21 mm external.

Heres one sat on a 1MZ plug;

[Ardent]

Much appreciated

[Dev]

I only use the Toyota fiber washer because it was designed around the torque value listed in the service manual. For the last ten years or so I use a torque wrench for the oil pan bolt because it is a crucial bolt that if you over tighten it you weaken the threads as time goes on until one day it starts leaking or worse it strips.

Most people who tighten this bolt including service professionals over tighten because they fear if its not tight enough it can be catastrophic. It also makes it a pain to remove as I have helped others change their oil and they need an extension because the last person who tightened over did it. 
 
 I know of people throughout  the years that needed new oil pans because service people and some owners ruin the threads. Its not one of those things that just happens, its happens over a period of time.


 

[fawtytoo]

The garage I used for my Smart told me I needed a new sump because the thread for the plug had been stripped.
It couldn't be tapped because the sump is aluminium and there was not enough metal to tap.

I suggested it was their fault, as they're the only ones to touch the sump plug. How else could the thread be stripped unless they're being heavy handed? Or using the wrong washer.

So what you're suggesting Dev could be right.

[Joesson]

The garage I used for my Smart told me I needed a new sump because the thread for the plug had been stripped.
It couldn't be tapped because the sump is aluminium and there was not enough metal to tap.

I suggested it was their fault, as they're the only ones to touch the sump plug. How else could the thread be stripped unless they're being heavy handed? Or using the wrong washer.

So what you're suggesting Dev could be right.

What material was the sump plug made of I wonder?

[Dev]

The garage I used for my Smart told me I needed a new sump because the thread for the plug had been stripped.
It couldn't be tapped because the sump is aluminium and there was not enough metal to tap.

I suggested it was their fault, as they're the only ones to touch the sump plug. How else could the thread be stripped unless they're being heavy handed? Or using the wrong washer.

So what you're suggesting Dev could be right.

The aluminum sumps are notorious for the threads going bad. I helped an owner with one and noticed that it had a rubber O ring not a washer. We had to find the torque specs for it. If anyone owns an aluminum sump its best to not let anyone touch it or bring the torque wrench with you to trusted mechanic. The stamped steel ones are a lot more forgiving but over time with excessive tightening its still worth the trouble using a torque wrench even if its for making it a lot easier to remove the bolt for the next oil change.
 

[Ardent]

@Topdownman
Order placed.
Not many it would not fit.
Specifications.


Manufacturer part number: 1I706082
Reference OE/OEM number: 90430-12031, 9043012031
Exchange part numbers: 90080-43037, 9008043037, 12101-54042, 1210154042, 90430-12036, 9043012036, 90430-12018, 9043012018, 90430-12027, 9043012027, 90430T0024, 90430T0024, 9008-043037, 90430C0005, 90430C0005
Size: inner diameter 12mm/0.47inch outer diameter 21mm/0.83inch thickness 1.8mm/0.071inch
Material: aluminium + cotton


Suitable for
For Toyota 4Runner 1990-2018
For Toyota Avalon 1995-2016
For Toyota Camry 1989-2018
For Toyota Celica 1990-2005, 1985
For Toyota Corolla 1985-2018
For Toyota Cressida 1985-1990
For Toyota Echo 2000-2005
For Toyota FJ Cruiser 2007-2014
For Toyota Highlander 2001-2016
For Toyota Land Cruiser 1991-2016
For Toyota Matrix 2003-2014
For Toyota MR2 1985-1995
For Toyota MR2 Spyder 2000-2005
For Toyota Paseo 1992-1999
For Toyota Pickup 1990-1995
For Toyota Previa 1991-1997
For Toyota Prius 2001-2016
For Toyota Prius C 2012-2016

For Scion iM 2016
For Scion iQ 2012-2015

For Lexus CT200h 2011-2016
For Lexus ES250 1991
For Lexus ES300 1992-2003
For Lexus ES300h 2013-2016
For Lexus ES330 2004-2006
For Lexus ES350 2007-2016
For Lexus GS F 2016
For Lexus GS200t 2016
For Lexus GS300 1993-2006
For Lexus GS350 2013-2016, 2007-2011
For Lexus GS400 1998-2000
For Lexus GS430 2001-2007
For Lexus GS450h 2013-2016, 2007-2011
For Lexus GS460 2008-2011
For Lexus GX460 2010-2016
For Lexus GX470 2003-2009
For Lexus HS250h 2010-2012
For Lexus IS F 2008-2014
For Lexus IS250 2006-2016
For Lexus IS300 2001-2005

[Joesson]

I have noticed that some sump plugs have a cross point, screw driver socket and the tool to fit it is a cross handled screw driver.
That should prevent over tightening but will likely go the way of all cross point sockets/ drivers.
For those that are concerned and do not have a suitably small torque wrench-
I have never used a torque wrench on a sump plug. I put the sump plug in with my fingers until resistance is felt.I then use a 6 point socket of correct size, a long socket or short extension bar helps. I then hold the socket in place with one hand and with the other cup my palm over the head of the wrench and tighten the plug. Almost zero leverage, no danger of over tightening.

[Ardent]

Whilst I wait for my 20 sump washers to turn up. Got impatient and went to Mr T bought 2.

That was a mistake.
£1.95ea +VAT £4.68

Ally with pressed cotton on on both faces.
You cannot view this attachment.

[J88TEO]

I bought a box of these washers a few years back and still have enough to last me to my last day on this planet!

[Topdownman]

Jason, they are far too large!

[SV-3]

Seal, (oil drain plug)
p/n T90080-43037
21mm od
12mm id
2mm thick
(available in either fibre, aluminium or vulcanized rubber versions - go figure)

[BARNPOT2000]

Seal, (oil drain plug)
p/n T90080-43037
21mm od
12mm id
2mm thick
(available in either fibre, aluminium or vulcanized rubber versions - go figure)

presumably these would be suitable?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174852000262?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=r4WxEGeHSnG&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=6h-f4Xk3SSu&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Joesson]

presumably these would be suitable?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174852000262?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=r4WxEGeHSnG&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=6h-f4Xk3SSu&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Yes indeed, even the same colour as those supplied by Mr T.

[Carolyn]

This is a 1/4" bsp dowty washer, used to seal hydraulic fittings up to 300 bar.  One of these does the job and will probably never need replacing.

[McMr2]

Maybe I ought to know better, but in over 20 years I've never replaced a sump washer.

[Joesson]

Rather than let this thread fade away-
Am I correct in  thinking that some garages/ oil change specialists remove the old oil via the dipstick hole thus avoiding the complication of differing plug washer types and dimensions and over/ under tightening the plug.

[J88TEO]

Yes....we used to do that...years ago.