VIN# expertise sought

Started by Petrus, October 1, 2022, 23:30

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Petrus

My car has some ´unusual´ details going on with it.

For one it was unloaded from the carrier boat late March ´03 yet a PFL model.
Weird but it is what it is for whatever reason.

Secondly the homologated tyres are:
4 x 185/55R15*
* optional 205/50R15 front and/or rear
Weird but.... you get it.

Next is the VIN # JTDFR320200028543.
I have checked and the VIN plate on the firewall in the engine room, the chassis# under the bonnet(hood), license papers all are the same.
The 10th character should be the production year:
V/1997; W/1998; X/1999; Y/2000; 1/2001; 2/2002; 3/2003; 4/2004; 5/2005; 6/2006; 7/2007; 8/2008; 9/2009; A/2010; B/2011; C/2012; D/2013; E/2014.
No ´0´ :eek:
Hmmmm. That should not be should it?

The rest of the VIN data matches with the car.
Also checked on the license plate number and the history from the MoT concerning ownership/kilometers/periodic inspection et all are coherent.

I remember another VIN# popping up here with a 0 too much as well and that did not get anywhere.

Does any of you have any more info/ insight?
Thank you, much obliged.

Petrus






Ardent

Tricky, some pages suggest VIN do not us 0 or o
https://www.alldata.com/us/en/support/repair-collision/article/vin-to-year-chart

Which suggests that's wrong as your plate clearly does.

Some sites do not recognize the vin an suggest an error. Others are OK.

https://www.toyodiy.com/parts/q?vin=JTDFR320200028543
https://www.amayama.com/en/catalogs/toyota?_s=h

Joesson


@Petrus
My 2002 car's 10th character in the VIN is 0.
From the sites that @Ardent directed us my car was built in 05/2002 and according to my V form first registered 07/ 2002.
It was sold to the previous owner by a Toyota dealership with all the glossy documentation that it was a Toyota approved, previously owned car.

In the case of the Petrus vehicle there is clearly something wrong as the on car plate shows the weight to be 1235KG!

Petrus

#3
Quote from: Joesson on October  2, 2022, 10:02In the case of the Petrus vehicle there is clearly something wrong as the on car plate shows the weight to be 1235KG!


and if you add the front & rear up you get 1275 even!

Gets more confusing still as for mine the Tara is 1100 kg because the hardtop is counted as part of the car because it came fitted as such off factory.

Theoretically this leaves 175 kilo for occupants and luggage.

Indeed @Ardent mine is kosher, correct and has a zero as tenth digit.

Now there are some loose bits of info:

- @Joesson´s is confirmation.

- The VIN# converters are very much if not exclusively oriented on the US whereas the párts suppliers are not*

- Although only 28.000 were sold in the US, total production was 78.000, meaning 50.000 móre

I wonder if the serial number (the last 7 digits) can shed more light. It is logical that the chassis was stamped in óne plant in fairly large batches on the base of projected sales.
The tenth digit adds a complication to that logic though as it points to a differentiation in number stamping.

* the Amayama decoder does recognise the number and reproduced the exacts same date as on the Vin plate, adding that production date was Oktober 2000. I claim day 02 as that coincides with mine  :))

Thanks @Ardent.  I had already found when ordering a part before Covid that the data was coherent on the Amayama site but did not follow up on all live link fields until you provided the link.
Ergo the ´0´ on mine probably means 2000  8)

@Joesson your car took 2 months from being stamped to delivered.
Mine 2 months shy of three yéars.

MikeBoo

It was very common in the UK (and possibly other countries) at the time for cars to be sat for several years in a field/disused airfield after manufacture before sold & registered.

Nothing odd or unusual as to the VIN:
10th character: Identifies the model year.
For example: 1988(J), 1989(K), 1990(L), 1991(M), 1992(N), 1993(P), 1994(R), 1995(S), 1996(T), 1997(V), 1998(W), 1999(X), 2000(Y)------2000(0), 2001(1), 2002(2), 2003(3).
Therefore, yours is a 2000 year-built car, the same as mine.
9th character: Identifies VIN accuracy as check digit.
11th character: Identifies the assembly plant for the vehicle.
12th to 17th characters: Identifies the sequence of the vehicle for production as it rolled of the manufacturer's assembly line.
2001 Toyota Liquid Silver (1D0) with hard top & original soft top.
Yokohama AD08RS all round.
Replacement manifold, BC coil overs,
Whiteline anti roll bars front & rear & Ultra Racing front strut brace.
Location = East Hampshire, UK

Petrus

Quote from: MikeBoo on October  2, 2022, 11:46Nothing odd or unusual as to the VIN:
10th character: Identifies the model year.
For example: 1988(J), 1989(K), 1990(L), 1991(M), 1992(N), 1993(P), 1994(R), 1995(S), 1996(T), 1997(V), 1998(W), 1999(X), 2000(Y)------2000(0), 2001(1), 2002(2), 2003(3).

See the issue?

Solved ofcourse but I do wonder how that can be. Stamping both/either a ´0´ and/or a ´Y´. But hey, question answered; Oktober 2000.
Small wonder it´s a PFL despite being first registered auntumn 2002.

MikeBoo

Quote from: Petrus on October  2, 2022, 12:01See the issue?

Solved ofcourse but I do wonder how that can be. Stamping both/either a ´0´ and/or a ´Y´. But hey, question answered; Oktober 2000.
Small wonder it´s a PFL despite being first registered auntumn 2002.
I don't see any issue.
In the UK the plate designation changed with new registrations changed from annual to twice yearly from 1999.
2001 Toyota Liquid Silver (1D0) with hard top & original soft top.
Yokohama AD08RS all round.
Replacement manifold, BC coil overs,
Whiteline anti roll bars front & rear & Ultra Racing front strut brace.
Location = East Hampshire, UK

Petrus

Quote from: MikeBoo on October  2, 2022, 12:17I don't see any issue.
In the UK the plate designation changed with new registrations changed from annual to twice yearly from 1999.

Plate registration is nothing but an administrative assignation. My son´s car has it´s foúrth license plate number. My DAF and my Nimbus are in a different MoT registry even with non EU plates!
All of these three have been reïmported from a pre-EU registration in a now EU country.
All admin and totally seperate from the chassis number, just línked to it.

A serial/vin number is not quite the same; it is stamped in the chassis.
Apparently stamping both/either a ´0´ and/or a ´Y´ is .... odd. It means that the number sequencer on the press alternated between the two depending on the market thát chassis is going to with a different code for the year in 2000 only.
I find that surprising.


MikeBoo

I suppose where I coming from is that with the UK year/plate designation change, the powers that be which control the VIN definitions also changed the VIN year designation for 2 possible reasons:
  • The next letter after Y (2000 VIN) would be 'Z' (2001) and then what at 2002, if '0' then it would be very confusing and if 'A', this would cause duplicates unless an additional digit was added to a VIN.
  • If the next letter 'Z' was used then there's also the possibility of confusion over the digit '2'.

It makes sense to me to double up at the year 2000 to align the digit with the year.
2001 Toyota Liquid Silver (1D0) with hard top & original soft top.
Yokohama AD08RS all round.
Replacement manifold, BC coil overs,
Whiteline anti roll bars front & rear & Ultra Racing front strut brace.
Location = East Hampshire, UK

TheTigerUK

Do you know what letter is what plant ?

Mine is a 2002 reg built in 2000

11th character: Identifies the assembly plant for the vehicle.
Say it with love, say it with flowers but never, never, say it in writing.

Not perfect and not cheap :)

Petrus



Position 11 Plant

Code   Description

0-9 (All numeric)   Japan
A   Onnaing-Valenciennes, France (TMMF)
C   Cambridge, ON, CA (TMMC)
D   Japan
E   United Kingdom
K   Japan
J   Japan
M   Baja CA, Mexico (TMMBC)
N   Kolín, Czech Republic (TPCA)
R   Lafayette, IN, US (Subaru of Indiana Automotive)
S   Princeton, IN, US
U   Georgetown, KY, US
W   Woodstock, ON, CA (TMMC)
X   San Antonio, TX, US
Z   Fremont, CA, US (NUMMI)

No detail in the code thus about whích plant in Japan. Must have something somewhere about that though.

Ardent

According to wiki

Sagamihara plant

Petrus


bobbe

My 02 also has a 0 for as the tenth character in its VIN. First registered March 2002, Amayama says manufacture date of 2002.01

To confuse things somewhat, my 05 MR2 also has a 0 as the tenth character. It's a facelift car, with all the bracing and other changes for a facelift car, first registered in March 2005, and Amayama shows a manufacture date of 2005.01

VINs on both cars all line up with all documents, and both are recognised correctly when input into the Toyota owner's site.

So, I'm not convinced that the tenth character of the VIN is a reliable guide to production date

MikeBoo

Quote from: bobbe on October  4, 2022, 22:15My 02 also has a 0 for as the tenth character in its VIN. First registered March 2002, Amayama says manufacture date of 2002.01

To confuse things somewhat, my 05 MR2 also has a 0 as the tenth character. It's a facelift car, with all the bracing and other changes for a facelift car, first registered in March 2005, and Amayama shows a manufacture date of 2005.01

VINs on both cars all line up with all documents, and both are recognised correctly when input into the Toyota owner's site.

So, I'm not convinced that the tenth character of the VIN is a reliable guide to production date
That's odd, please can you post the first 11 characters of your VINs, only the 12th to 17th character are unique and Iodentifies the sequence of the vehicle for production.

2001 Toyota Liquid Silver (1D0) with hard top & original soft top.
Yokohama AD08RS all round.
Replacement manifold, BC coil overs,
Whiteline anti roll bars front & rear & Ultra Racing front strut brace.
Location = East Hampshire, UK

bobbe

Quote from: MikeBoo on October  4, 2022, 22:33That's odd, please can you post the first 11 characters of your VINs, only the 12th to 17th character are unique and Iodentifies the sequence of the vehicle for production.



02 car: JTDFR320400

05 car: JTDFR320100

Petrus

Actually this makes more sense than a ´Y´ and ´0´ for the same year which makes no sense at all.
If the ´0´ is in this case has a different meaning this would be in line with the ´0´ not existing as year code.

Next is try deduce what it does mean.

@Dev, what is the 10th digit of yours and the registration/production dates?

Same your MR-S @Carolyn ?

MikeBoo

My 2001 car VIN starts with: JTDFR320400
2001 Toyota Liquid Silver (1D0) with hard top & original soft top.
Yokohama AD08RS all round.
Replacement manifold, BC coil overs,
Whiteline anti roll bars front & rear & Ultra Racing front strut brace.
Location = East Hampshire, UK

Petrus

Quote from: MikeBoo on October  4, 2022, 22:56My 2001 car VIN starts with: JTDFR320400

The 9th digit is a checksum number for the total code. It is used to validate the number as Toyota issued in the decoders. Has no meaning itself.
1 - 8 should be the same for all MR2s and the 11th too.

Lóve these apparent enigmas.
Even more  8)  identifying the ´issue´ 15 years after the last car  ;D

Mezula24

My November 2005 MR2 also has a 0 displayed as the 10th.character on it's VIN numbers.
All VIN numbers on my car match and match documents.
Recognized on Amayama.
Clear on all checks.
All original Toyota documents/wallets etc.included with car.

Petrus

Quote from: Mezula24 on October  4, 2022, 23:10My November 2005 MR2 also has a 0 displayed as the 10th.character on it's VIN numbers.
All VIN numbers on my car match and match documents.

The plot thickens as to it NOT being a year code in this instance.

Even more  8)  than the oil level exception this  :))

MikeBoo

Quote from: Petrus on October  4, 2022, 23:28The plot thickens as to it NOT being a year code in this instance.

Even more  8)  than the oil level exception this  :))
Maybe we've been using the wrong VIN standard, have a look at Wikipedia in particular the sections headed:
  • Classification
  • Components
2001 Toyota Liquid Silver (1D0) with hard top & original soft top.
Yokohama AD08RS all round.
Replacement manifold, BC coil overs,
Whiteline anti roll bars front & rear & Ultra Racing front strut brace.
Location = East Hampshire, UK

Petrus

Quote from: MikeBoo on October  4, 2022, 23:37Maybe we've been using the wrong VIN standard, have a look at Wikipedia in particular the sections headed:
  • Classification
  • Components

I was thinking along this line because all European owners report the ´0´.
This would fit if the European cars differ fron Japan/USA, hence I asked @Dev and @Carolyn.

Carolyn

Quote from: Petrus on October  5, 2022, 00:03I was thinking along this line because all European owners report the ´0´.
This would fit if the European cars differ fron Japan/USA, hence I asked @Dev and @Carolyn.

My Vin:  ZZW30-0033900
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Petrus

Quote from: Carolyn on October  5, 2022, 08:08My Vin:  ZZW30-0033900

Thanks.  Which seems to confirm that Toyota stamps the VIN# region specific and thus the 10th digit on Europeas cars is nót the year code.

Is it a 2002?