MR2 Roadster prices on the rise... keep stock or still go 2zz?

Started by LeEdFollow, March 8, 2023, 11:15

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LeEdFollow

G'day peeps :)

Just a general curiosity here...

I've noticed that MR2 prices are starting to creep up as more are being scrapped/parted out and I'm questioning my own plans to 2ZZ swap my car this summer.

In the current climate where clean/unmodified original cars (in general, not just the MR2) are generally fetching more than modified examples would it be prudent to keep the 1ZZ? Because my car has a full Toyota service history and receipts for everything its every had done to it... a lot of that goes out the window as its no longer applicable once you change the engine.

I've seen a number of 2ZZ swapped cars for sale (some sold easily, some have been hanging around for a long time) and its hard for me to gauge whether the 2ZZ adds true value (Not necessarily talking about money here) to the car to warrant doing the swap or whether the swap itself is actually putting off future owners or narrowing the number of interested owners.

I've now got 100% of everything I need to do a 2ZZ swap this summer, but I'm wondering whether the smarter option is actually to pass on the car as it stands and then sell all the 2ZZ conversion parts as a separate kit.

What do you guys think?

Petrus


Carolyn

Unmolested original cars will always appreciate best. 

Have you gone through the 2ZZ engine?  I ask 'cos many have had a hard life and may not last very long before developing big problems. 
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Topdownman

If you are not planning on keeping it then stay 1zz would be what I would do.

Best to do the 2zz on a cheap donor car with a bad engine.
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LeEdFollow

Cheers all.

Yes my car is not perfect at all, but the 1zz itself is in great condition and uses zero oil. So seems a shame to remove it.

I'll probably let fate decide :) Will advertise the car this summer and if I can find a new home for it I will, otherwise will push on with the 2ZZ swap this Autumn with a view to passing it on next summer.

LeEdFollow

Quote from: Anon on March  8, 2023, 13:08MR2 ownership, I don't think its a profit making scheme. If it is I'm totally missing something.

They are the only affordable mid engine rwd sports car, and that gives a massive return in intense unassisted driving pleasure.

If you're making choices to do with money, then just sell it now for whatever you can, and work at McDonnalds or something with your hours!!

The price appreciation dream? Not sure they even cover their rent due on garage space.

This has nothing to do with making profit. I never bought this MR2 project expecting to even break even. Losing money and time over it was always the expected outcome.

But what I wanted to establish was "does the world need another 2ZZ powered MR2" or "does the world want a restored MR2 kept as close to original as possible"?

You can go work in McDonalds if you want :) I've never worked in retail lol

Trust me, I have plenty of other projects on the go to fill my time completely. But its about doing right by the car.

In another 10 years there will probably be very few original roadsters left on the road. So do I want to preserve a 'survivor' or leave behind what some may consider a "molested" car. That's really the question.

So now I've restored the MR2 I'll enjoy it and try to find a new home for it this summer. Whoever takes this car off me is going to be getting something very special. But if nobody comes to get it then I guess that answers my question on what the market wants and in that case I'll push on with the 2ZZ swap.

Ardent


Joesson

It has never seemed sensible to my way of thinking to buy a car with a good working engine and take the heart out of it and put in something that has been used and likely abused.
I would enjoy what you have or sell it and buy an oil burner to play with.
That way there are two 2's that are likely viable/ buyable other than one modified one that may or may not be.

Zxrob

Here is my view, may get a few comments but hey ho

I have been looking for a 2zz for trackdays, my 1zz is fine, handles lovely but just lacks power, my problem is, most out there are either high mileage ones or look like dogs, and if you look about, including this forum, they aint that reliable and that puts me off.

Rob
Adventure before dementia 😁

Alex Knight

You'll have more fun in a 2ZZ than a 1ZZ. If the difference in value is holding you back, it'll be negligible.

You have everything you need, get on with it. You won't regret it.

SuperArt

You can have the most kosher MR2 in the world but even if it is fully loaded with OEM options it will not add the same value as those parts would be worth sold individually.

This effect is more noticeable and worse when the parts fitted aren't kosher.

Sod resale value. These cars are pocket change nowadays and they're not appreciating, used cars are in a bubble market right now. In the real world these slightly higher prices is only barely keeping up with double digit inflation so values are only crawling up if at all.
Just drive and enjoy.
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Dev

Has anyone heard the term period correct.
A 2ZZ would be considered historical for this car as far as transformative conversions go and if done right in a way that looks factory would fetch more to a real buyer that wants to drive and not collect.
What would lower the the value is if the car was bastardized to where it looks like someone personalized the car to match their own taste that even the most casual observer can tell.
If it looks like it came that way from the factory thats all that matters if retaining max value is the goal.



Bernie

IMO going turbo is the better option as the install is reversible and once you've gone 2ZZ you're in it for the long haul along with an engine that's mostly been ragged all it's life

Also 2ZZ great for a track focused car but keeping it in lift on a road car for performance seems a less enjoyable experience v turbo


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Petrus

Quote from: Dev on March  9, 2023, 02:54Has anyone heard the term period correct.



Aiiii Dev. ´Period correct´ is in this case ánything turn of the century/early century especially JDM. Even ´stanced´ is.
Take mine. Whatever you may think of it, period correct it totally is  :))  Go figure  ;)
Best not to put to fine a point to it.

For vaue, better to not molest the car.
Ceteris paribus a nice working 1ZZ is worth more than a 2ZZ with a question mark.
As a rule mods do at very best not add value unless it is a nice TTE turbo and even thát narrows the field.

They áre increasing in value if nice low mileage. Still not worth the garage rent though. Basically they never will increase more than that. It will always be a mass produced Toyota.
There will always be plenty about and unless something which fell trough a wormhole in time, nobody will need to feel it cultural barbarism to personalise even ´butcher´ one for personal enjoyment.
Them´s for fun, not good investments nor historic monuments.

Just enjoy driving the wheels off!!


Call the midlife!

The way the UK ones are rotting from the ground up I would say that general, overall condition of the shell and rolling chassis will soon become more important than what's in the engine bay.
With Toyota not making many of the major structural elements anymore, such as the front subframe/chassis strengthening pieces and the way they rot, there's going to be more and more consigned to the scrap heap.
And the ones going to the breakers will soon not have the parts to keep up with demand for the same reason.
06 cars on fairly low mileage and otherwise reasonable condition under threat of disposal for want of a chassis brace etc.
60% of the time it works everytime...

Carolyn

I don't think 'there will always be plenty about'.  There were never many sold in the first place, numbers are fast going down and, as Midlife says, many are rotten.  The good solid ones that are looked after are relatively few in number.
 
As for it being a cheap mass produced car and never being worth much, there are plenty examples of cheap (often terrible) mass produced cars that have become expensive collectors' items.  Who would have bet on the early escorts and fiestas becoming expensive classics, back when they were new?  Or how about an 850 Mini Minor, which was a total rot-box?

There are now just over 5,000 registered in the UK. And just under 3,000 on Sorn (most of which will never see road use again).  Deduct from those numbers, rotten cars, parts cars and highly modified cars and they are getting quite rare.

@Gibla has proven that really good ones are bringing prices in the £6,000 to £7,000 range as of 2022.  My bet is they'll keep going up.
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Petrus

Ofcoúrse the value will increase. Heck, even just keeping up with the inflation is a race to the sky! The ham question is whether that outpaces the rent value of the garage space.

Looking at the Mk.1 and Mk.2 which had inferior rsut protection/sperior prodcution numbers, those are still quite affordable.


Carolyn

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J88TEO


Gibla

Answering the op ?

If it's maximising your investment , sell an unmodified car along with the unused 2zz bits n pieces this would trump any completed 2zz converted car value (easily)

In general there seeems to be 4 states of MR2 mk3

1) Totally unmodified or untouched ie OEM
2) Bodily enhanced MR2 < tasteful or not
3) Performance enhanced mods <wheels n tyres, brakes,suspension,exhaust,engine to a greater or lesser degree, *expensive* invariably
4) Combo of 2) +3) << *some* are very desirable and have been done really well, others less so

It really does depend on what you are wanting from your car.....I can only comment from my pov, to sell on, it's far easier to sell on an unmodified car in good condition, *but* it's far more fun to drive around in something that's got a wee bit more poke (in my case I have experienced the joys of a supercharged car and currently am satisfied with good exhaust mods eg Zero)
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Petrus

Quote from: Carolyn on March  9, 2023, 11:01This might be of interest:

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/toyota_mr2_roadster_vvti

Indeed.
Since 2005 the number has gone down from the 11k max to 8k now.  Not that bad no considering the wear, tear and rust started in 2000.  Or am I misunderstanding SORN?

Call the midlife!

Quote from: Petrus on March  9, 2023, 12:06Indeed.
Since 2005 the number has gone down from the 11k max to 8k now.  Not that bad no considering the wear, tear and rust started in 2000.  Or am I misunderstanding SORN?
SORN means it's been declared as off the road, so not scrapped but for whatever reasons not currently taxed to be used on the road.
Such as my pair both currently garaged in various states of refurbishment before being sold/put back into use.
But it also applies to the countless ones used purely for motorsports/track use (I believe but could be wrong) that I don't think can be classed as scrapped if they still have a chassis/engine number.
60% of the time it works everytime...

Petrus

Quote from: Call the midlife! on March  9, 2023, 12:18SORN means it's been declared as off the road, so not scrapped but for whatever reasons not currently taxed to be used on the road.
Such as my pair both currently garaged in various states of refurbishment before being sold/put back into use.
But it also applies to the countless ones used purely for motorsports/track use (I believe but could be wrong) that I don't think can be classed as scrapped if they still have a chassis/engine number.

Ok, so basically the 8k still exist. Meaning that since 2000 only 3k have gone even if only some 6k are in more or less use on the road. Even that is less than half ´lost´ in over 2 decades.

Petrus

Quote from: Anon on March  9, 2023, 12:46MR2's are not all that popular, and often mocked for being uncool....

Mass produced Toyota cabrio for hairdressers  ;)

They will increase in value but imo the current trend is about the steapest they will see. It is a few years past the bottom and it will level out when they near the average of Mk.1 and 2. As with those the exceptional examples will fetch exceptional prices from collectors.

As to the op example, the largest value is in the dríving. The increase less that the cost of the garage space.

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