Wife wants MR2 but questions

[Anonymous]

We are looking at changing her Celica for a MR2 but have a few questions.
The car will be kept on the drive. How prone is the soft top to leaking in the rain / snow?
Does it leak when driving in heavy rain?
Is there really a big differance in the cars handling after 2003 mods? I ask because she is a little nervous looking at the "tail happy in the wet threads"  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:   A 2002 car is a lot cheaper.
If driven sensibly (By her not me) most of the time and not abused and serviced as required. Will this car go on for many miles? Im looking at up to 90,000 miles in 4 years  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Thanks for any help

[Tem]

How prone is the soft top to leaking in the rain / snow?
Does it leak when driving in heavy rain?

As long as the top is ok, it won't leak. Come to think of it, I can't remember anyone complaining it leaks.

If driven sensibly (By her not me) most of the time and not abused and serviced as required. Will this car go on for many miles? I'm looking at up to 90,000 miles in 4 years  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Gut the precats  s;) s;)  (check the maintenance area)

With those gone, I assume this car would to 200,000 miles just fine with services done on time.

[Slacey]

We are looking at changing her Celica for a MR2 but have a few questions.
The car will be kept on the drive. How prone is the soft top to leaking in the rain / snow?
Does it leak when driving in heavy rain?

It is a very well made and resisatant top - they generally never leak and seem to last well. A Hardtop could be sorted for better winter protection and from experience I can say they don't leak driving in rain.

Is there really a big differance in the cars handling after 2003 mods? I ask because she is a little nervous looking at the "tail happy in the wet threads"  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:   A 2002 car is a lot cheaper.

The extra bracing on the '03 models up helps with vibration and body / chassis flex but don't alter the handling much IMO. I have a 2002 and have never lost the rear in the wet, I think the cars tail happy reputation is down to the driver, not the car itself - be smooth with the controls and you should have no problem.

If driven sensibly (By her not me) most of the time and not abused and serviced as required. Will this car go on for many miles? I'm looking at up to 90,000 miles in 4 years  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Thanks for any help

As Tem said above, a little preventative maintenance on the precats should ensure the engine stays reliable for a long time. There are a few high mileage examples in the US (100.000+ miles) so the engine seems to be a good one when you take out it's achilles heel.
Go buy one - you won't regret it.

[Anonymous]

The car will be kept on the drive. How prone is the soft top to leaking in the rain / snow?Does it leak when driving in heavy rain?

I had this problem not so long ago  http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7594&highlight=roof+leek I eventually found the cause of this problem myself, of all things it was one of the press studs on the cross cable that tucks in the ears this was catching on the frame preventing it from fully settling over the hood hinge, It's been no problem since.

Is there really a big differance in the cars handling after 2003 mods? I ask because she is a little nervous looking at the "tail happy in the wet threads"  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:   A 2002 car is a lot cheaper.
If driven sensibly (By her not me) most of the time

My wife uses the car every day of the week (I get to use it on the weekends  s:) s:)  ) apart from the odd occasion when our village was cut off by snow she has never had a problem (I span it once in the snow though  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  , heavy right foot syndrome   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  )

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice. Daft question time do earlier models still have the cat problem? (if they did not we would get an earlier model)

[Chris]

Is there really a big differance in the cars handling after 2003 mods? I ask because she is a little nervous looking at the "tail happy in the wet threads"  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:   A 2002 car is a lot cheaper.

The extra bracing on the '03 models up helps with vibration and body / chassis flex but don't alter the handling much IMO. I have a 2002 and have never lost the rear in the wet, I think the cars tail happy reputation is down to the driver, not the car itself - be smooth with the controls and you should have no problem.

Also, in a lot of those threads it turns out that the car is running on mismatched tyres, which is a no no.  Unless deliberately provoked, i've never lost the rear end on my '03.  I've not had any problems with leaks either...

[Anonymous]

All Roadsters are susceptable to pre-cat break up unfortunately. There has been more cases of the problem on pre '03 models, but that's probably on due to the fact that they have a higher mileage on them generally than a newer car.

Buy whatever age car you want, and gut the pre-cats. You'll have no worries then at all, and can get on enjoying one of the finest cars this kind of money can buy.

[Anonymous]

Im no mechanic so would a Toyota dealer remove the cats or should I go to a local garage?

[Anonymous]

Toyota probably won't touch it, or at least will charge through the nose to do it. Try a local garage, or even someone on here may help you if you tell us whereabouts in the world you are.

[Anonymous]

Im in the Newcastle North East of England if anyone knows anyone that can do this job  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

Ignore the advice on pre cats! It's probably no more than a 1000-1 chance that your car would have a problem, but everyone on here is prone to throwing silly fits about it.

[markiii]

so your going to pay for teh repairs if he';s  one of teh uinlucky ones then are you.,

thats generous

[Peter Wright]

Ignore the advice on pre cats! It's probably no more than a 1000-1 chance that your car would have a problem, but everyone on here is prone to throwing silly fits about it.

Well !  I would not go that far especialy when buying a second hand car

[Anonymous]

Does anybody actually have a list of the reported number of precat failures against number of cars sold?

What happened about the issue of bore wear causing the precat failure as opposed to the precats actually being the problem? Did anyone find anything else out? What about the alleged 4000rpm resonance issue? Does anyone actually have any detailed facts about what the real problem is?

[markiii]

at the risk of repeating what has been said on here many many times before;

TTE have commented (and no not officially) that teh 1zz has a resonance issue at around 4000rpm.

beariing in mind the amount of time when cruising that you spend around that area, it's likely that this could cause a problem.

bearing in mind the US gearbox has different ratios to us and they have a higway limit of 55mph, and they do lots more long distances, I'd bet that they spend even more time at 4000rpm cruising than we do.

oddly most of the reported failures have been stateside.

now wether the bore wear comes first or teh precat failure comes first, while nice to know, doesn't really matter for our purposes.

if you search both here and at Spyderchat you will find that;

1. There are more than just a few people with this issue.
2. Every engine failure to my knowledge has been accompanied by Precat failure.
3. No cars to my knowledge that have already had their pre-cats removed have yet failed.
4. Many more cars than have failed have shown pre-cat damage upon inspection (just read teh pre-cat gutting threads for evidence) none of those that we have gutted have yet failed.

Now bearing in mind that if a pre-cat fails, whether it is a cause or a symptom, 2 things can happen.

a) parts fall into the main cat, when enough material is here to block it you will get excessive backpressure, no power, and oil will be forced past the piston rings exacerbating bore wear.

or/and

b) parts will get sucked back into the engine during valve overlap. Since teh bores are aluminium and as anyone whos gutted theres can tell you teh pre-cat material is cermamic, very sharp and hard. Gues which will win teh battle? Your bores will get damagaed and you will have oil blow by.

and round and round we go.

now bear in mind that in the UK you DON'T need your pre-cats to pass an MOT, both legally, and as has been proved by many that have since passed theirs.

So tell me why you would take the risk of leaving them in?

There is absolutely zero downside to removing them.

So I repeat WHY would YOU take the risk?

If your toaster had a chance of blowing up and burning your house down, and tehre was an easy and cheap preventative fix that had no downside.

Would you just say oh well chances are it won't happen to me? Thought not.

[Anonymous]

Some excellent replies but nobody knows anyone in the North East that could do this at a price  s:) s:) ? Or do you

[Anonymous]

So I repeat WHY would YOU take the risk?

Errr, because my car is still under warranty so I'm happy to leave it for the time being. My current plan is to sell the car before it's two years old anyway, as I have my eye on something different.

So we still don't know how many failures there are compared with number of cars sold? Didn't the corolla have the same problem but not have any precats (can't honestly remember!)?

I personally (and that's the main point, it's my opinion which could well be wrong) believe that the precats are an effect of another problem, but as you point out, and has been covered many times before, are probably the main contributing factor to the engine going. If it was an effect, I'd like to know what the main factor is that makes them go in the first place.

The problem with problems like this is that you don't hear anything from those people that have had no problems, it's always the people that have issues that make the noise.

Whilst an old post, this is still interesting. OK it's a small sample, and 10% is still quite high, but it highlights the question of how bad a problem are the precats? One thing you can't say is whether those people that have gutted their precats would have ended up with a blown engine  s:( s:(

How many people who have had engine failures have also pushed their car before it's fully warmed up? I can understand that you say that gutting the precats can stop your engine letting go, but it could mean it's a long lingering death as opposed to a quick one.

Please don't take these comments the wrong way, I'm just trying to give you my thoughts on the whole situation. I realise some of you guys have a lot more experience with the greasy bits of the car so have far more knowledge than me in those areas, I just like to see an objective two sided discussion rather than everybody just agreeing without thinking about the issues  s:) s:)

[markiii]

Hanslow,

I wasn't so much addressing my post at you, as to Martins iresponsible "just ignore it, it won't happen to you" post.

as far as I know, there have been some corrollas. and quite a few Avensis with thsi problem.

neither have pre-cats.

which is why personally I think the pre-cats are a symptom.

however

once the precats go they make teh problem worse very quickly, which is why statistcally (ok I don'thave numbers) the amount of roadsters with issues is so much more evuident than on the other vehicles. Add on that the roadster is likely to get thrashed more than a corrolla or Avensis, it's likely they will be cruising at 400rpm more.

thats my personal beleif at the moment for what it's worth.

however if your out of warranty or keeping the car for a while it makes sense to remove teh pre-cats before they can be anissue of any kind, cause or just a contributing factor.

IIYAMA, if you can get to Herts at some point I can take care of them for you.

The December meet is looking full, but I expect another one in January if there is enough demand.

[Anonymous]

Hanslow,

I wasn't so much addressing my post at you, as to Martins iresponsible "just ignore it, it won't happen to you" post.

Oops sorry  s;) s;)  Guess I was having a paranoid moment LOL  s:D s:D

Just to leave some things on a positive note, I've had my '2 for a year and half now and it's never skipped a beat  s:) s:)  However, now that I've got a garage, the calling of a car with no roof whatsoever is becoming stronger by the day  s:D s:D   s;) s;)

IIYAMA, I had the same concerns as you when I first bought one. I still bought one and have not regretted it. The car has given me plenty of smiles and good drives so far. In some ways it'll be sorely missed when it eventually goes as it works just as well with the roof up as down giving the best of both worlds.

[Anonymous]

Markiii i will remember that offer thanks. Just need to visit a dealer and get a nice part ex on her celica  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

I too am just after some balanced debate. No one on here has any statistics no the problem.. Not trying to be irresponsible, honest!

I think this club has a responsibility to find out the details of the problem, state them publically and - if necessary - force Toyota to respond.

But all we ever seem to do is talk about gutting, which isn't IMHO the most appropriate way forward.

[Tem]

Does anybody actually have a list of the reported number of precat failures against number of cars sold?

I do. At least 18% of local cars have blown the engine. There's no data for possible issues that were handled outside dealers, so the percentage might be even bigger.

So there's no need to worry about it if you feel lucky  s8) s8)

[Anonymous]

Tem, how local is local and how many numbers of cars is that? Just curious  s;) s;)

[Tem]

how local is local

I meant Finland  s8) s8)

how many numbers of cars is that?

6 of 32.

[Anonymous]

One thing you can't say is whether those people that have gutted their precats would have ended up with a blown engine

And I for one and more than happy to live with that ambiguity. If anything ever does take my engine out, I know it won't be precats. So, the question is: "Since I'm only going to own the car for a year or two, should I bother with removing the precats?" This is a no-brainer - of course you remove them.

If the problem affects your car, you won't get a warning, you won't get any indication until your motor is already terminal. So let's say that happens. Now you need to replace the motor. Even under warranty, this job will be attempted by mechanics in some shop who may never have worked on a Spyder before. They will make mistakes. Following the job, expect rattles, leaks, CELs, and it will take some time to track down everything and return the car to good service. And you'll always be wondering.

Some call it a pleasure, but for me, the maddening part of owning an MGB was never knowing when or how it would fail, but just knowing that at any moment a freakish disaster could spring out of nowhere and strike hard. I don't want any of that with this car.