Hass + Thor = Good (pic heavy)

[Anonymous]

Since no-one (barring Slacey) picked on the fact I've now got my car back from Thor now, I guess I'd better make a spanky new thread on the subject. I warn you know, this is going to be a very long post, but I think it's for the best if I cover everything in detail so it's all down in one place.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:



The Problems

First off, let's have a re-cap of my many problems:

- Profec wouldn't work (no boost at all when it was connected)
- Bogging (possibly going very lean) at 1600-2200rpm when WOT in 3rd gear + above
- Knocking at top end of rev range
- Exhaust moving all over the shop, and melted bumper
- e-Manage wiring a complete mess (my fault entirely)
- Air filter was completely mangled after it fell off and got caught in the driveshaft
- BOV sounded like a dog barking (not a problem per se, but something I didn't want to live with)
- Stereo not working
- Horn not working (again, my dodgy install)

So that was the state of the car when I took it to Thor Racing. On top of all that work that needed doing, I also asked them to weld an O2 bung into the downpipe that I could use for a wideband O2 at a later date. Oh, and I also asked for a compression test across all four cylinders to make sure I hadn't done any damage when running on a rubbish tune. Basically, I left the car with them with the instructions that I wanted the entire install checked over and sorted, and left the judgement of exactly what that meant up to them.


The Solutions

Right, now time for the good stuff. The compression test was fine, as they recorded a healthy 12.5bar across all four cylinders, so at least I know that not only have I not damaged my engine, but I also have a healthy one in the first place (at least as far as I can tell without stripping it down).


General work done on the Hass kit

Basically, they tidied up my install, as you can see from the picture below:



Not a great deal of work there, but it's a bit more presentable now.


Exhaust work

Thor removed the entire exhaust system (downpipe, muffler, cat etc) and painted the whole lot in high-temp silver paint.





The pictures simply do not do the quality of the work justice. Quite honestly, it looks like a truly high quality exhaust system now, and not the couple of bits of bent steel thrown together that it used to. Before I took the car up to Thor, there was already some rust marks and staining on the steel itself, and it really didn't look very good at all: Now I'd be happy to show the kit off to anyone and everyone, and not feel the need to say things like "Yeah, I know it looks a bit sh*t. But I can go really fast now!". Now I can just stand there and pose.  s8) s8)   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

They also mounted a new hanger on the exhaust to stop it wiggling around quite so much:



It still moves, but nowhere near as much as it used to. Again, nice work. You can also note the new clamps they put on which actually hold the exhaust together, rather than just bending the metal (their words, not mine. I know that no-one else with the Hass kit has had too many issues with the original clamps coming off, and I certainly never did. Still, I thought it worth mentioning).


BOV

Yay! No more ugly black lump there anymore!  s:D s:D



I have no idea what make it is, but it's fully adjustable and makes a proper 'pssssshhhh' noise now instead of it sounding like I've got a small puppy trapped back there. Vast improvement, and I've also got a stronger spring for it when I go uprated internals in the future...  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:


Intercooler Scoop

Perhaps the biggest surprise for me was the work they did to the piece of metal that Hass laughably call the scoop for the IC. Check it out:









Now that is much better! No more flappyness, and again it looks like how it should have come in the first place. I know it was as simple as drilling a little hole and attaching a cable tie round the IC hanger, but nevertheless I likey muchly.


Profec screen mounting

Not much to say here really, except that I basically copied Sean's install.



Done job. The Profec works perfectly now, except it can't see the maps on the e-Manage (I get a communication error, probably needs a firmware upgrade). That's no biggie, as I have the support software on my laptop anyway, which is far easier to use.


Mapping of the e-Manage

Let's be honest, this is probably the only thing people are actually reading this thread for. So here you go:

6psi: 182rwhp, 156ft/lb
8psi: 205rwhp, 173ft/lb
10psi: 218rwhp, 188ft/lb

Quite healthy, I'm sure you'll agree. I'm sure you'll also notice that they're slightly down on Sean's numbers, which could be down to the fact that I asked them for a very safe tune as I still had BP Ultimate + a bottle of octane booster in the tank, and didn't want to start knocking as soon as I put just SUL in; or that my revised-edition kit simply isn't as good as the original. Either way, I'm not too fussed. 10psi is still an absolute blast, and everyone should try it once in their lives.

Also, the hesitation/bogging I had at low rpm/high gear has gone. That says a lot about the difference between the Hass tune and Thor's, if you ask me.


Things noted by Thor

I'm running BKR6E plugs gapped @ 0.7mm, but Thor recommend moving to BKR7E plugs instead. Also, I'm running Motul 5w-30 for my oil as recommended by Opie Oils at JAE: Thor reckon this is miles too thin, and I should change to 10w-50 instead. I don't know who believe here: The guy that sells oil for a living, or the guy that works on engines for a living. The car is a bit rattly top-end since I've started using the thin stuff, so I think I will try going to the thicker oil next change. Mark, when I spoke to you about that funny rattling noise that we both have on trailing throttle, I think it might be down to the oil. Don't know how you feel about that hypothesis, let me know.


Bad points

Yes, I do have a couple of quibbles still. I spoke to Thor about changing the BOV for something different when I dropped the car off, and was told that they would call me back with a couple of ideas so I could research them on the 'Net and call them back with a decision. They just went and changed it anyway, which I do feel a bit hard done by. The BOV isn't to my style, but I am very happy with the noise it makes, and that was pretty much the result I was after. Still, it would have been nice to have been rung back as promised.

After leaving Thor and filling the car up on Ultimate alone (no octane booster), by the time I got home the car was making some very noticeable clanking noises, and I heard a huge bang from somewhere behind my head. This was only at 3000rpm, too. I can't see any oil anywhere and the car pulls healthily enough, but I've put some more OB back in just in case the tune wasn't as safe as I'd hoped for. I'll ring them first thing Monday to confirm that they did tune it as I asked, and I'm still hopeful that the huge bang was the exhaust popping. Again.  s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:

Also, there was a distinct lack of phone calls from Thor regarding the state of my car. I originally wanted to pick it up last Saturday, and when I hadn't heard anything from them by Friday I rang them myself, only to be told the car wasn't finished yet. Not a major issue (I did say it didn't matter too much if it wasn't ready within one week), but it would have been nice to have been informed. Likewise this week, where I had to ring again on the Friday to see if my car was ready.

I'm also a little concerned at the work done to the IC scoop, as now it's a solid thing there's more chance of ripping the whole IC off (instead of just the scoop) should I catch it on something. Time will tell of course, but I'll be avoiding speed bumps like the plague from now on.


Good Points

Despite the last few paragraphs, I would have no hesitation in taking my car back to Thor for more work. The level of workmanship is second-to-none, they know their stuff and will quite happily chat to your for hours about what you want/have had done to your car. Seriously, I cannot express my delight at the end results of a fortnights' work on my baby. I am extremely happy with Thor, both in the work they did and the friendliness and professionalism of the staff.


There's not a lot more I can add really, except that the car is now exactly how I hoped it always would be. I'm enjoying driving it again, something that I haven't really done in a while. I'm back.  s8) s8)











Oh, and my stereo and horn work fine now!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[philster_d]

Also, I'm running Motul 5w-30 for my oil as recommended by Opie Oils at JAE: Thor reckon this is miles too thin, and I should change to 10w-50 instead. I don't know who believe here: The guy that sells oil for a living, or the guy that works on engines for a living. The car is a bit rattly top-end since I've started using the thin stuff, so I think I will try going to the thicker oil next change. Mark, when I spoke to you about that funny rattling noise that we both have on trailing throttle, I think it might be down to the oil. Don't know how you feel about that hypothesis, let me know.

is this any help...........

If you see an expression such as 10W-40, the oil is a multigrade.

This simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades, in this case 10W & 40.

This is made possible by the inclusion of a polymer, a component which slows down the rate of thinning as the oil warms up and slows down the rate of thickening as the oil cools down.

It was first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the routine of using a thinner oil in winter and a thicker oil in summer.

For a 10w-40 to attain the specification target a 10W ( W = winter) the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity at low temperature. The actual viscosity and the temperature vary with the viscosity grade but in all cases the lower the number, the thinner the oil, e.g. a 5W oil is thinner than a 10W oil at temperatures encountered in UK winter conditions.

This is important because a thinner oil will circulate faster on cold start, affording better engine protection.

For a 10w-40 to attain the other specification target a 40 oil must fall within certain limits at 100 degC. In this case the temperature target does not vary with the viscosity grade, if there is no "W", the measuring temperature is always 100degC. Again the lower the number the thinner the oil, a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100 degC., which is typical of maximum bulk oil temperatures in an operating engine.

The engine makers are, of course, very well aware of this and specify oils according to engine design features, oil pump capacities, manufacturing tolerances, ambient temperature conditions etc. It is important to follow these guidelines, they are important and are an are stipulated for good reasons.

If the engine has been modified, the operating conditions may well be outside the original design envelope. The stress on the oil caused by increased maximum revs, power output and temperature may indicate that oil of a different type and viscosity grade would be beneficial.

Cheers
Simon

[Anonymous]

That's basically what me and Mark were told when we spoke to him, hence buying the thinner oil. Still, I'm going to change next time and see if I notice any difference. If not, then I'll simply change back.

[kanujunkie]

**puts fingers in ears and closes eyes**

la la la la la la la, not reading it, not listening to you  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[markiii]

Dan,

you beat me to it I was going to call you tonight.

observations from me.

oil, you'll remember we debated teh whole oil thing with Simon at JAE and both have (just looked in my cupboard) 5w40

nice work from thor,

did you get teh old bov back they aren't cheap?

did you have your second exhaust leg welded on (hope so since they painted teh exhaust)

exhaust clamps, mine were blowing off all over teh place so I had it welded, Thor aren't teh only ones to think teh Hass clamps are shit.

Intercooler scoop, still reckon mine is teh best compromise   s:D s:D  

How much did it cost you?

whats teh blue hose to teh left of the engine bay?

new exhaust hanger, I tried that location as well, and it's so hot that teh hanger melts teh rubber hanger, so I suggest you keep an eye on it.

[kanujunkie]

good to see you got her sorted out at long last, have your feelings changed overall then

[Anonymous]

@Mark

You're right, it is 5w-40. My bad, but I still think I'm going to try and change it, and see what happens.

Yup, made sure I got the BOV back.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Didn't get the leg welded on, I didn't actually know they were going to paint it (was never asked), so it's kinda buggered that up now. Not entirely sure where I go from here.

Totally agree with you re the scoop, but then again I didn't know they were going to do that either.

Total cost was £692.66 inc. Not bad, but the original quote was £300 +VAT. Then they saw how much needed doing...  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Blue hose is new vacuum tubing, I didn't have the pressure sensor + solonoid set-up properly so they had to remove the old stuff and sort it out. Not exactly colour-coded to the rest of the car, I know.

I'll keep an eye on that rubber, thanks mate.


@Stu: I'm honestly happy with the car again. Pulling past absolutely everything on the road is something I don't think I ever want to give up!  s:D s:D



One more thing to note: I've been out today in it, and there is definately a new clanking sound coming from somewhere in the engine bay. It's not there at idle, and after about 3K revs the exhaust is so lour I can't hear if it stays or goes. It could be the exhaust knocking against the IC piping, or it could be the fact that when they removed the valve cover plastic cover, they didn't put the two plastic bits back in the front side and that could be rattling. Or it could be that that loud bang I heard yesterday was something Very Bad Indeed. What would be the first sign I'd done something horrible to the internals? Apart from the noise, I presume there would be oil seeping somewhere, what's the easiest part to take off to check?

For now, I'm just turning the stereo up.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[markiii]

not sure about Thors clamps but backfires had a habit of blowing my exhaust joints apart, might be worth checking

[Anonymous]

Nope, all clamps are still nice and tight, I just checked.

There's also the possibility it was the Krankvent coming from the rear breather port knocking against the throttle body, as I've just noticed they were pretty close together. I'm planning to tape a bit of rubber between exhaust and IC piping to rule that out as well.

Guess I'll just have to take her out tomorrow and see if it's gone.

[Slacey]

Glad to see it's all running well at last (although as you mentioned in your first post I knew that a while ago  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ). As for the clanking, I'm going to stab a guess that it's the same as mine (happened from day one) and that's the exhaust knocking against the subframe - if you look at the right leg that exits the car it's only mm from a solid part of the car. Or, it could be something totally different!  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

Hmmm, I never thought of that... It's possible, seeing as how my exhaust is now in a completely different position to how it was (i.e. it's no longer pointing at the sky).

Does yours still make the noise, or has it been fixed by all the welding and extra hangers you put on? And any difference when you put Kirk's mounts in?


Blimey, so many questions: I'll be labelled the next Mefarri soon!  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[aaronjb]

Glad to see you've got it back, Dan  s:) s:)

It all looks reasonably good to me (though I do wonder how long those cable ties will last, before the metal cuts through them with vibration)..

Now, when do I get my ride?  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

[Slacey]

Does yours still make the noise, or has it been fixed by all the welding and extra hangers you put on? And any difference when you put Kirk's mounts in?

No, it still makes the noise on occasion, although it did improve with the motor mounts as they took away a lot of the movement in the system.

[markiii]

I've yet to cnculusively prove it but judging by the sudden lack of paint on teh cross brace I suspect the bend beofre teh silencer is tapping on the frame (left hand side)

thats the next rattle on my klist to eliminate, I've spent teh last few weeks tracking them down and have got rid of most of them.

[Anonymous]

Profec screen mounting

Not much to say here really, except that I basically copied Sean's install.

Where did that housing come from? It would be perfect for mounting my iPaq.

[Slacey]

Where did that housing come from? It would be perfect for mounting my iPaq.

Search for 'navpod', you'll find the info you need.

[TommyD]

Good to hear it's all running fine again and Thor seem to have done a good job there. Though I think they could up their personal service a little by contacting you next time there is a delay. (Might get them to fit my profec) I guess getting it remapped was the most expensive thing? Not sure about the scoop design, I have yet to see a good answer to this though Mark's rejigged nappy is my choice so far.

I have finally decided that the exhaust has to be overhauled and so I'm going to get a new setup made which hangs better that the existing wobbly mess with a bigger silencer and swopout cat. I will post some pics when it's done in Feb.

[spit]

Dan, useful posting, thanks!

Great to have you upbeat about the car and Hass kit again. From the pics it looks like Thor have done a sterling job for the money, especially considering the work you've had done on top of the dyno and mapping. Nice one!

I'm interested to know more about the BOV, and whether a recirc model is available. No trapped puppys here.....more like sick pigeons in my case!

Also, it'd be good to get to the bottom of the "best oil" discussion. I'm still confused by the advice, but probably need to get something a little more hardy given the mileage/age.

[markiii]

for a recirc the stock Hass one is more than good enough

why noty buy Dans old one? it works fine on my setup

[Anonymous]

Heh, who needs salesmen when you've got Mark?  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Ste, if you do want my old one give us a PM and we'll sort something out.

Oh, and I was wrong about the clamps all being tight. I couldn't see last night as it was dark, but the clamp between the silencer and the exit pipe has worked itself loose: I can see exhaust gas streaming out of it in daylight, so I'll nip that up in a bit and hope that cures the rattle (which I've now narrowed down to only being there under load when the car's moving, I can't replicate it when standing over the engine bay and tugging the throttle cable mechanism thing).

Tom, the tuning cost me £200 + VAT according to the invoice. Sean's map will work fine for your kit though...

[Slacey]

(Might get them to fit my profec)

I'm a lot cheaper (as in free) if you need this doing.

[Anonymous]

I always knew you were cheap, Sean  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[TommyD]

Cheers Sean, that would certainly be cheaper   s:D s:D   As soon as I get this exhaust done and got through the MOT (fingers crossed) I'll give you a call.

[Anonymous]

MOT? Haven't you got another year-ish yet before you need one of those? Or are you getting it done just to make sure you'll pass ok when the time comes?

Apologies if you've already mentioned this elsewhere matey!

[TommyD]

I'm due in March this year. The car was registered in March 03.  s:? :? s:?