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MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => Maintenance, Problems & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 9, 2006, 05:57

Title: N.A. vs F.I Used Oil Analysis
Post by: Anonymous on March 9, 2006, 05:57
Blackstone Labs comparison of two turbo Spyders oil with other 1ZZ's.

 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=29748 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=29748) m
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Post by: heathstimpson on March 9, 2006, 06:11
Interesting article. I suppose you naturally think that loading an engine with the extremes of a turbo charger would cause more damage; your tests confirm this   s:? :? s:?
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Post by: Anonymous on March 9, 2006, 06:16
What I'd like to know is what 20ppm of ring material looks like in term of actual wear. .00001 thousandths of an inch?
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Post by: heathstimpson on March 9, 2006, 06:19
Quote from: "wts"What I'd like to know is what 20ppm of ring material looks like in term of actual wear. .00001 thousandths of an inch?
There must be a calculation for this somewhere in the mechanical engineering heaven  s:? :? s:?  Grant  s:?: :?: s:?:
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Post by: Tem on March 9, 2006, 07:16
ppm is parts per million, it's kinda like %, just smaller, so you need to know the original amount if you wish to know how much it is.

1 000 000ppm=100%
100 000ppm=10%
10 000ppm=1%
1 000ppm=0.1%
100ppm=0.01%
10ppm=0.001%
1ppm=0.0001%
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Post by: Tem on March 9, 2006, 07:30
Having read that Excel-sheet, the 20ppm means 20 parts of million in your oil was iron. Assuming you had 4 liters of oil, you had 80 microliters of iron in it. Iron weights about 7.9 kg/l, so that would equal about 0.6 grams of iron.

Anyone know how much an oil ring weights?  s8) 8) s8)  I would assume some of that came from other moving parts as well though...?

(1 lb = 454 grams)
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Post by: kanujunkie on March 9, 2006, 08:34
where the hell did the boron come from in James engine after 500m turbo'd. The trend then drops off, strange? you'd have thought that would indicate the breakdown of something, but what?

if only the good 1zz report had used Mobile 1 as well  s:? :? s:?
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Post by: Tem on March 9, 2006, 09:00
Quote from: "kanujunkie"where the hell did the boron come from in James engine after 500m turbo'd. The trend then drops off, strange? you'd have thought that would indicate the breakdown of something, but what?

I wouldn't pay much attention to the first analysis after major work like that. Might be from the oil return line welded into the oilpan, might be from wiping the oilpan with some cloth, might be the sealant, might be from plenty of this and that.

I'd worry if new stuff makes its way into the oil after the first oil change, when you haven't worked with anything related to the oil.
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Post by: spit on March 9, 2006, 09:15
Interesting post, although I don't understand a word of it  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Ignorance is bliss.   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

So does this mean we should be changing oil much more often, or is premature death a cert?

Any precautions we can take to slow the erosion?
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Post by: markiii on March 9, 2006, 09:28
I now change every 3000 miles
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Post by: aaronjb on March 9, 2006, 11:22
Quote from: "Tem"Anyone know how much an oil ring weights?  s8) 8) s8)  I would assume some of that came from other moving parts as well though...?

I guess a piston ring will weigh a good few grammes - not forgetting that there's 12 of them I think (3 rings on each piston, unless it's different on the 1ZZ)..

I'm struggling to think of any other iron parts that would wear into the oil on our cars, though - the block, heads etc are all alu - cams, crank? Bearings are probably bi- or tri-metal, but no iron there..

As usual, I'm probably missing something obvious..

Oh - wait.. Turbo journals?
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Post by: heathstimpson on March 9, 2006, 18:45
Quote from: "markiii"I now change every 3000 miles
Why so frequently Mark; isn't every 6K ok   s:?: :?: s:?:
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Post by: markiii on March 9, 2006, 19:10
who knows,

with the turbo it's worth doing it mre often for teh piece of mind.
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Post by: heathstimpson on March 9, 2006, 19:12
Quote from: "markiii"who knows,

with the turbo it's worth doing it mre often for the piece of mind.
Better safe than sorry and all that I suppose  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: Anonymous on March 9, 2006, 19:15
After seeing the colour of my oil after 5K of turbo use, I'll also be changing at every 3K now.





That's if I can still borrow you garage everytime Mark.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
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Post by: Anonymous on March 10, 2006, 01:01
Quote from: "Ekona"After seeing the colour of my oil after 5K of turbo use, I'll also be changing at every 3K now.

What Does the color of used oil mean?

 m http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ult ... 1;t=014088 (http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=014088) m
Quote from: "someguyinthe thread"The reason that Mobil 1 darkens more so than many other motor oils in an engine is because it changes color a lot when heated.

Redline oil gets even darker when heated than Mobil 1, given high enough temperatures. Castrol 5W-40, 10W-40, and Gold GC stay very much the same color as they started when heated..

Color change is a function of several things: additive package darkening, oxidation of basestocks (bad), and amount of carbon in the oil. For Mobil 1 and Redline, additive package darkening happens easily and well before the basestocks have darkened from oxidation.

How do I know? I heated the oils to many temperatures for many lengths of time. How else would I know
But, I plan on every ~3000 miles as well.
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Post by: Anonymous on March 10, 2006, 01:05
Quote from: "Tem"I'd worry if new stuff makes its way into the oil after the first oil change, when you haven't worked with anything related to the oil.
Thats why I waited until the 3rd change to submit a sample but Ieven screwed that up. Who knew M1 5W30 and M1 5W30 7500 had such a different additive package. But I guess it makes sense.

Quote...not forgetting that there's 12 of them I think (3 rings on each piston, unless it's different on the 1ZZ)..
Yes, there a still 12 in a 1Z. Two compression and an oil control ring on each.

The cylinder liners are grey iron.
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Post by: Anonymous on March 10, 2006, 01:36
QuoteAny precautions we can take to slow the erosion
Perhaps a compression check to ensure the engine's healthy to start with nit othwerise. No.

From  m http://www.synlube.com/serv02.htm (http://www.synlube.com/serv02.htm) m

FE - Iron
PPM / miles on the oil = a rough indicator of wear. If the result is more than .01 then its potentially excessive wear.
20/3250 = .006

CR - Chromium
If the value is LESS than 0.005 there is NO NEED for concern about the Chromium reading.

3ppm / 3250 = .0009
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Post by: aaronjb on March 10, 2006, 13:35
Quote from: "wts"The cylinder liners are grey iron.

Gah, how did I forget those? *puts on the stupid hat*

 s:) :) s:)

Interesting research, though, wts - and highly valuable.
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Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2006, 00:34
Other ferrous items are probably oil and water pump impellers.
Pistons, Camshafts, valves, valve guides - spark plugs but that would be bad.  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
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Post by: Tem on March 11, 2006, 13:55
Quote from: "wts"Other ferrous items are probably oil and water pump impellers.

I hope you're not getting water pump metal in your oil  s;) ;) s;)
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Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2006, 17:25
Quote from: "Tem"
Quote from: "wts"Other ferrous items are probably oil and water pump impellers.

I hope you're not getting water pump metal in your oil  s;) ;) s;)
D'oh!
I was thinking spinning metal thingies and not spinning metal thingies that are normally in contact with the engine oil.  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
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