Hmm, what are the chances? I remove my pre cats, which were fine anyway, only to have the warning light come on for the first time a few days after.
It came on today on my way back from a friends house. I wasn't really driving excessively, although had noticed when in second and floored, the car slurred a bit before it got going. This only happened in second, no other gear.
I dropped down to my local MR T on the way home who ran through the diag machine and said it was to do with the oxygen sensor. I then got a bit of paper saying something was loose and it has been tightened. The light has since gone off but I've been told to keep an eye on it. He also said it was due to "this mysterious part" not being tightened that the engine was running a tad on the rich side. Any ideas what this might have been? I couldnt speak with the mechanic as he went home, I only got the revised version from the sales desk...
Still, they didnt charge me for it..
if it was a loose 02 sensor that woudl probably explain it
th error code was probably a bank too rich error
Nothing serious then. Probably you didn't tighten down one of the 02 sensors after gutting the manifold.
Is good to know as I may be gutting mine over easter.
Hi Slurpy J
Just as a matter of interest, has it stopped popping when you exhaust / rev ?
Thanks
Rob S
Thanks Mark, put my mind at ease a little...
It still pops a little.. not as much as it did, but occassionally. I still find though, if I'm at low revs and say, in third, and I floor it, it will start to accelerate, then for a second or so, seem to lose power, then come back in again.. only wasy i can describe it is say you turn a hose on, and the water flows ok, then comes out in a large burst and seems to stutter, before flowing again.. you know?
/is probably making no sense at all!
Just a thought, have you re-set your ECU since you made the change. If not just disconnect the battery for 15 mins that will reset the ECU which will then re-educate itself to the new set-up. I did this after I had my new exhaust system was fiited, it made it a lot smoother. s:D :D s:D
On the low rev pick up I must admit my car does not like being pushed like this, so I just change down and away it goes, more noticable in the 6 speed cars due to the gear settings.
Thanks
Rob
Ahh, no haven't tried that Rob.. will give it a go tonight.
Cheers buddy
I have just been out to lunch in it, and it's basically not right. I will accelerate fully in 2nd, 3rd or 4th and just get no response from the engine.. maybea chug, then it'll go.. but when i get to around 3.5 - 4k rpm the engine continues to rev but doesnt seem to feed any power to the wheels, ie the car sounds like its accelerating but it isnt...
Whats up with my baby?? s:( :( s:(
if revs are going up but speed isnt sound like clutch has gone?
Yep - if the RPM is going up out of sync. with the real speed then the clutch is lunched.
No not liek that... hmm what I mean is, it'll chug and lurch then accelerate.. then just not accelerate as quickly as normal.. like it'll hover around 50mph for ages even though the engine sounds like it's trying to go faster and my foot is floored.
Could it possibly be the injectors?
Pretty sure it's not the clutch as it's not shooting up (rev wise) and not moving like it would with a clutch.. just the engine feels unresponsive and slow. Sorry for not explaining it clearly..
Could be spark plugs ?
Are you getting a CEL Slurpy ?
Not at the moment.. had one on Saturday but Toyota reckoned it was just a loose O2 sensor and it's gone since then.
The only thing that has changed recently is the new Che manifold and new air filter.
Any one confirm - could this be caused by a leak ? Loosing compression ?
I've just topped up the oil and refueled... checked there was nothing loose etc in the engine bay. If anyone else has any suggestions as to what it might be, please let me know. I'll see what it's like on the way home from work. s:( :( s:(
Hmm just read this thread http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10676&highlight=rpm and this sounds very much like what mine is doing. Will drop it off to have the spark plugs checked this week..
s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
could be some bad fuel causing a misfire or could be a dirty spark plug by the sounds of things
Well I refueled, topped up the oil and replaced all the spark plugs with new ones as it still did the same thing.
Basically, the symptoms are stuttering, lurching acceleration/power when on full throttle in any gear and then lack of power/acceleration over 5,000 rpm.
My thoughts are that perhaps there is a leak in the new manifold somewhere and thus, when you floor it, air is escaping as the pressure is greater than when you are gradually accelerating. That might also explain the lack of power over 5000 rpm? Just speculating though, I could be talking crap!
I've just dropped it off at Jemca in Kingston and they're going to take a look at it for me tomorrow. Hope it's nothing serious!
Has this problem been with you since dropping the precats? If it has, then that would seem the obvious thing to investigate (ie anything that was dismantled/re-assembled or disturbed during the process.
IMHE the chances of a coincidental failure somewhere else are far less likely than a self-inflicted issue (but there's no accounting for bad luck!).
There's a lot of simple stuff you can do to exclude it as a contributor to the problem eg ECU reset, MAF clean, O2 clean.
That said, if it turns out to be a firing issue, its a very simple job. Sure you'll get it sorted OK.
Nice one.. well last night I reset the ECU, replaced all the spark plugs, topped up the oil and refueled and there was still no change sadly. It may just be, like you said, new O2 sensors/cleaning them or a problem with the MAF> The issue has only occurred really since I had the new manifold fitted, so I reckon it'll have something to do with that.
Hoping it's nothing too serious, although the engine sounds fine otherwise.
I have my old manifold here now if you wanna borrow it to test back in original config.
Great.
Just got a call from Toyota who have said my Catalytic converter is breaking up internally and needs to be replaced. They are calling me back in 15 minutes with a price for parts and labour.
dont even pick up the phone. new main cat from toyota is 6/7/£800 start looking for a 2nd hand main cat. first port of call as always is w www.gt-international.com (http://www.gt-international.com) w
Quote from: "edward.carter"dont even pick up the phone. new main cat from toyota is 6/7/£800 start looking for a 2nd hand main cat. first port of call as always is w www.gt-international.com (http://www.gt-international.com) w
or send me a PM - I've got one lying around. J-Spec though s:oops: :oops: s:oops: but guess thats OK for you Slurpy
problem solved in a matter of mins s:D :D s:D
F*ck me! Toyota want £1300 for the two cats that have gone..
Right so GT-international or Spit it is.
Spit, you say yours is J-spec. Why do you think that will be fine on my UK 00? Sorry I'm not that knowledgable about it all!
Quote from: "Slurpy J"F*ck me! Toyota want £1300 for the two cats that have gone..
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Sorry - but that's rather amusing.
They've just quoted you to replace the preCATs
that you just removed!The MR2 has three CATs in total - two in the manifold (the precats that you gutted, that they want to replace) and one main CAT (in the exhaust itself).
I just phoned the the girl in the service dept... this is the convo we had:
M = Me T = Toyota
M - Hi im a little confused as to what I'm being quoted from, is it the pre cats that have gone or the main one in the exhaust?
T = It's the pre cats
M = I dont want to replace the pre cats, they havent broken up, its a new manifold in there, that doesnt have pre cats fitted.
T = You haven't changed the manifold, you've added an accessory
M = No no, I definitely have replaced the manifold, it cost me £150 last week.
T = No, you have two catalytic converters in the car, both of them have gone.
M = Well I'm happy to pay for the one in the exhaust if that's gone, but I'm not giving you well over a grand just to put back what I've just removed. I could give you the old manifold back if I wanted to do that. I think the main cat in the exhaust should be £600. Is that what has gone?
T = I dont know, I'll clarify with the technician in the morning for you and call you back.. sorry about this!
Do I really want these muppets fixing my car?!?!
Slurpy, I thought you installed a Che header? Didn't they notice the lack of even room for pre-cats, never mind the pre-cats themselves?
I'm worried now, I've just ordered a Che header myself as an alternative to gutting, is your main cat break-up anything to do with your new header?
Rich
I dont even know if my main cat has broken up! I dont even know what's wrong with it now. I think they have just seen there are no pre cats and have said, yep, they've broken up, he needs new ones.
Doh, must have been typing this as you were typing your last message.
Still worried, think the Che header helped knacker the main cat?
Rich
Who would have thought MR T actually diagnosing a problem with pre-cats. s:wink: :wink: s:wink: I wonder if they actually noticed the manifold was different. i.e. there's no space for them in a Che manifold.
ooops a little late there amongst the flurry of posts. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
So confused! I still have no idea what's wrong with my car and if they really do think my pre cats have broken up, there is no way I want them to try and suss out what really is causing the problem!
if the main cat has gone then give Adam(Jap GT300) a pm, he'll have a second hand one for a lot cheaper than £600
I'm no expert here. But it seems too much of a coincidence that this happened soon after the manifold swap. I'd plump for a leak somewhere in the system or a 02 sensor going belly up after being pulled out of one manifold and stuck in the other.
That's what I reckon... either a leak or an O2 sensor. Will the O2 sensor cause these sort of symptoms?
I also can't see how replacing the header would cause the main cat to break up, if that's what they are saying?!
Mine is for sale, need to recoup some losses here.
Low milage and good condition, I even have the gaskets.
Say £100 ? also if your still giving me that exhaust to give for mark ? then lets say £80 s:) :) s:)
PM me
Philster
Yeah nice one!! The exhaust is ready to collect so we can swap then.
If I find out tomorrow that's what I need, then I'll take you up on that buddy! Thanks
Quote from: "Slurpy J"T = You haven't changed the manifold, you've added an accessory
What a quality line... s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Bizarre and ridiculous treatment you're getting from MrT Slurpy.
I'll sit back and watch for now, but if you need any bits at rock-bottom prices, let me know.
.....and re. the J-Spec Cat (which you probably don't need now), I was mis-led by the MR-S in your signature line. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
No worries. My view on it now is that I'm not paying the diagnostic fee when all they have told me is what I'd written in the notes anyway (I have replaced the manifold - thus the pre cats have been removed)
If, when they ring me in the morning, they restore any sort of faith that they know what they are doing, then I'll leave it with them. If however, they still are unable to differentiate fully, their arse from their elbow, I'll be taking it elsewhere.
What makes me laugh is there solution for the pre cats crumbling away is to replace them. Hmmm, where do you think these pre cats have disappeared to if they have crumbled away? In my engine perhaps? In which case, sticking two new ones in might not be the wisest option..
If there is no leak, I wonder if the cat had taken some percussive damage during the changing of the manifold. There aren't that many connections to get wrong electrically with replacing the manifold.
Are all the nuts and studs in place? Leaks can be a right pain.
So, haven't heard back from Mr T yet, but I did have a chat with a local mechanic. He suggested that because I changed the air filter and the manifold at the same time, the pre-cats, which were cleaning the air previously, are obviously no longer there, so the lambda sensor is receiving all kinds of different information than it's used to, and the mixture will be much richer. Thus, my car will lurch on full throttle etc and generall cause the symptoms I have been having. I asked if it's possible the ECU just needs to re-learn my engine set up, and he said that's "very likely".
So, is it worth asking MR T to just reset my ECU for me and then leave the car well alone, just so I can see if the problem fixes itself? I was also thining about ordering two new O2 sensors, just to be on the safe side.
Can someone also advise me, if an O2 sensor had gone, wouldn't that generate a CEL? The trouble is, I have no CEL at the moment, so it's hard to diagnose a problem..
hang on a minute, i thought you'd already disconnected the battery for 15minutes to reset the ECU??
I did, but that didnt seem to do the trick.. I wasn't sure whether I definitely reset it or not s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "Slurpy J"I did, but that didnt seem to do the trick.. I wasn't sure whether I definitely reset it or not s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
if it was off for 15mins then yes you did reset it and it would have cleared the ECU's memory
Ahh ok, thanks Stu.. well that's annoying... Toyota are calling me back in the next few minutes.. will let you know what they say
Hmmmmm.........
The plot thickens.
Interested to find out what the problem is - as a 2000 owner still with Pre-Cats, the Che Manifold is probably the route Im going to take...... but want to know how to resolve the issue your having at the moment, as knowing my luck with cars, the same ( if not worse ) is bound to happen to me.
dont worry this is a fitment issue, not a product issue
Do you reckon its just a leak somewhere then Stu ?
Quote from: "projectneon"Do you reckon its just a leak somewhere then Stu ?
that or a damaged O2 sensor, its just hard to diagnose over the web, we'll wait to see what Mr.T says about it all
Mind if I run it up to you later if Mr T give me jip, just to get your opinion on it Stu?
Tell me if your gonna do this I need to get out of here for 5 mins too.
Well, I've just spoken to Toyota again. They have said it's definitley the catalutic converter that has gone and it will definitely cost me £1300 to replace. They have said they will fax through diagrams of all the parts and costs etc so I know what I'm paying and getting so I'm just waiting for that fax before I plan my next move.
Looks more than likely though that I'll be buying that Cat off you Philster, if that's still ok?
Ok so this is what they have said I need:
T17104-22061 Exhaust M/Fold - 432.23
T17173-22010 Gasket Manifold - 14.05
T17410-22132 Exhaust - 626.61
T17451-22060 Gasket, Exhaust - 7.57
So they want me to replace the manifold I have JUST put in and the cat?? I can understand the Cat, but not the manifold.. surely they have got that wrong?
They also wrote:
Customer complained of vehicle feeling sluggish on acceleration. Carried out diagnostic checks, found catalyst convertor to be broken up internally. Requires replacing.
cant believe they are trying to replace your manifold with a standard one lol thats like turning up with a twin exhaust and then they tell you the prob is you sprouted an extra tip, you need a standard exhaust to fix that!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Whats the exhaust charge for ? I thought you recently had the TTE exhaust fitted?
Quote from: "projectneon"Whats the exhaust charge for ? I thought you recently had the TTE exhaust fitted?
presume thats to replace the main cat
OIC
/thick mode
I have the crush gaskets too s:) :) s:)
Genius!
New update: here's the conversation I just had with the technician:
T - "Hi sir, I'm Andy one of the technicians who has been working on your car"
M - Hi andy, I'm confused as to why everything needs replacing, please can you explain this to me
T - basically, you have the two cats in the manifold, the common ones that are known to break up. These have broken up and fallen into the main cat and that's why we have to replace both parts.
M - But they havent broken up. On my letter I wrote to you, which had the key to my car with it, it said I have just replaced the manifold with a performance manifold which does not have pre cats fitted to it. The old manifold is sitting next to me here in this very room, with the pre cats still attached to it. So they cant have broken up and got into my main cat.
T - I wasnt made aware of this, all I was told was that you had fitted a sports silencer
M - Well, did you not see, during your £160, 2 hour investigation, that there is physcially no room on the new manifold to fit two cats in there
T - (Somewhat embarrassed) I'll go down and have a look at it now and call you straight back
s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Still there is some fault to be found
He's just rung me back
T - Right, I've just looked at it and I have to agree with you, there is no way the pre cats could have fallen into the main cat as there are none to collapse
M - Right, so did you not see that befoer
T - I havent looked at this, I've just been asked to call you relating to your concerns
M - Ok, but you can see why I was concerned. You were trying to charge me £1600 for two parts I don't need.
T - Totally, let me just get you the price for the main cat
M - Hang on a sec buddy, I dont want a main cat. Are you sure the main cat is broken up, I cant see how it could be when all Ive done is replace the manifold
T - That's true, let me look at this myself today and work out what the problem is.
M - I think it may be a leak in the manifold fitment somewhere or an O2/lambda sensor
T - That's possible, but if it were an O2 sensor we'd get a CEL error
M - But we did, and you reset it on Saturday
T - Once again no one told me this
M - (losing the will to live) Really?? I wrote it in the note to you guys
T - Ok let me go and work out what the problem is with your car and call you back this afternoon
s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Classis lack of comunication there then!
At least this new guy seems to have some idea though, let's hope he can crack it!
edit: also does this not show that toyota are very much away of the precat issue?
Things like this just make me cringe in having to take it to my local Mr T - havent done this yet - as havent needed any work / service done - only done about 3k in it - and owned for about 6 / 7 months........ I dont look forward to it though.......
This is an absolutly facinatting thread highlighting the inadequacies of the so-called specialists. It reminds be of the evolution of early man. Soon Mr T technicials will have evolved to a point where they will be able to walk & perform basic communication.
Good luck Slurpy - Make sure you don't pay for that initial investigation !!
So I rung them yesterday evening and asked them, as a first step, to clean the MAF sensor as that was a part I was worried about and hadn't got round to sorting myself.
They have just rung and said "We've just replaced the MAF filter and the car drives perfectly now.."
So hang on a minute.. not only did they try and charge me £1600 for parts I didnt need, and mis diagnose the problem twice.. I've now actually diagnosed the problem myself.
What would you do with regards to paying them, because every part of me is all for telling them to pop their figures up there preverbials.
for info the maf sensor is £100 it takes literally 30 seconds to fit so dont let them charge you any more than that, all the messing about so far i think they should at least pay something toward it as a gesture!!
Yeah, I've said to them I want to fit it myself... they reckon they can have it in for me for tomorrow I think.
I may just clean it when I get home and see if that fixes it.
I think I'm well within my rights to not pay any diagnosis fees and to ask them to pay some money towards the MAF sensor, bearing in mind they tried to fleece me of well over one and a half grand..
Could of been a costly mistake............
Use your charm - maybe get a freebie :-) :-) :-) s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "Slurpy J"Yeah, I've said to them I want to fit it myself... they reckon they can have it in for me for tomorrow I think.
I may just clean it when I get home and see if that fixes it.
I think I'm well within my rights to not pay any diagnosis fees and to ask them to pay some money towards the MAF sensor, bearing in mind they tried to fleece me of well over one and a half grand..
definately dont pay for diagnostics as a minimum, as they didnt diagnose it right at all, in fact they got it quite wrong!!
Failure to read the notes.
Failure to actualy check the things they said they had... etc.
In an inevitable twist to the tale, it turns out they never cleaned my MAF like they said they had. I come home, clean it with some carb spray, the car is perfect again.
£1600 for a new cat and manifold or £4.99 for some carb spray... hmm..
slight difference in price then :-) :-) :-)
hehe Slurps 1 Toyota 0
So Slurpy, how did you deal with Mr T re payment etc? Did they actually have the front to charge?
Well, I already paid for the new MAF by the time I'd got home, because I was assured they had cleaned it and that didn't work, so I've got a refund on that, and I'll be going back on Tuesday to get a refund for the diagnosis fee which has now been wrong no less than 3 times.
I never received my refund. I wrote to Jemca's head office and had no reply. I then sent an email to the Director of Customer Relations at the Toyota GB Head Office. Within an hour the manager of Jemca Kingston was on the phone explaining that he would issue me with a refund and a goodwill gesture, and I would have something in writing within two working days. Two weeks past and still nothing.
Here is the email trail thus far:
1st email to Toyota, following unanswered letter to Jemca
Dear Ms Fisher,
I'm hoping you are the right person to speak with concerning the ongoing problems I have been having with one of Toyota's official dealers, Jemca in Kingston.
I booked my car in to the service department on Tuesday 11th April for a diagnosis and repair. It is a 2000, X Reg Toyota MR2. I left a detailed note with the keys to my car explaining that I had recently replaced the manifold on the vehicle with a performance manifold which had no "pre-cats" within the manifold shell. Since then the car had been slightly boggy on full acceleration and over 5,000 rpm the car lost power. I stated in the note that I thought it may be a possible air leak at either end of the manifold, a dirty or faulty O2 sensor or a dirty/faulty MAF sensor. I asked them to investigate the issue for me and suggest what needed to be done to rectify the issue.
After several phone calls later in the day, having been promised I would receive a phone call back, I was finally able to speak with Demelza, who works in the service department at Kingston. She advised me that my manifold needed replacing and the main cat also needed replacing as the catalytic material had broken up internally. I was very surprised by this diagnosis and explained that I found it highly unlikely that the manifold should need replacing as I had, only a few days earlier, fitted a new one to the vehicle. Demelza explained that I "...had not fitted a new manifold to the car, I had simply added an accessory." Somewhat bemused, I asked to speak with one of the main technicians. Demelza explained they had all left for the evening but I she would ring me back first thing in the morning. I asked her to fax me over a copy of the diagnosis sheet, which I have enclosed for your reference. It clearly states that a diagnostic check was carried out and they found the catalyst converter to be broken up internally.
The following morning, having received no call from Demelza, I rang the service department again and managed to speak to one of the technicians onsite, Adam. I asked Adam to explain why both the manifold and the main cat needed replacing. Adam explained that my Pre-Catalytic converters in the manifold had broken up and fallen into the main cat, thus rendering both the manifold and main cat useless. I explained to Adam that this simply could not be the case as the manifold on the vehicle did not have any pre-cats fitted to it, and that there aren't even any chambers on the new manifold for pre cats to be located. Adam explained he wasn't aware of this and would go and have a look and call me back. He rang me back within 5 minutes and confirmed that there were no "pre-cats" and that I was right, the manifold did not need replacing. When I asked why he had not seen this in the first place he explained that he hadn't been looking at my car and had merely rang me to explain the situation. He went on to suggest that just the main cat needed to be replaced and that I didn't have to pay for the manifold as well. I again explained that this would be highly unlikely as if there were no pre-cats to break up and fall into the main cat, the main catalytic converter should not need replacing? Adam explained that he would do a full assessment of the vehicle and get back to me later that afternoon.
At this point I was shocked that Jemca would have lied about carrying out a full diagnostic, when evidently, they hadn't even looked at the manifold to see whether it had pre-cats fitted. It also showed that they obviously hadn't read any of the notes that I had written and left along with my key. I was also being asked for £1600 for parts that did not need replacing.
At 5:30pm on the same evening I rang Demelza to ask why I had not been called back. Demelza explained that they had not been able to look at the car again today but they would investigate it thoroughly on Wednesday morning. Although not ideal, as I had now been without the car for three days, I asked that it be looked at first thing and also asked Demelza to get the technician to clean the MAF sensor on the air filter as this can sometimes cause similar symptoms to those the car was suffering. Demelza advised that she would suggest that to the technician and they would ring me back in the morning.
Demelza rang me the following morning to explain that the car had been checked over, and a MAF sensor from another car that was in for servicing, had been fitted to my vehicle. My vehicle ran perfectly after this, so a faulty MAF sensor was diagnosed. She said the part was not in stock but would be available on Wednesday 19th April following the Easter break. I then asked Demelza if the technician had tried cleaning the MAF sensor and she replied "That was one of the first things he did and it made no difference I'm afraid, it definitely needs replacing."
I collected the car that afternoon and paid £180 to Jemca. £100 for the new MAF sensor and £80 for the diagnosis.
I decided, on the way home, to buy some Carb spray so that I could try and clean the MAF sensor myself to see if I could get any negligible improvement for the weekend. Having cleaned the MAF sensor with a few sprays of the carb cleaner, the car was back to normal and ran perfectly. The technicians clearly had not tried to clean the sensor as I had requested, and were just looking to sell me yet another unnecessary part.
I find it sickening that, had I not questioned any of the diagnosis that the Jemca Kingston branch carried out, or had any prior knowledge of the car and its engine, I would have now paid well over £1800 for parts that I did not need. I've since had the car checked by an independent garage who has advised me that the manifold and catalytic converter are in perfect working order and the whole car is mechanically sound.
It does nothing for the increasingly grim reputation that garages and dealerships are receiving, when a company as supposedly reputable, honest and efficient as Toyota can ask for £1800 for a problem that cost me £4.99 to rectify.
I am still without a refund for the £100 I spent for the MAF sensor, despite having cancelled the order and I also feel extremely unhappy at having to pay £80 for a diagnosis that was not only wrong no less than three times, but ended up being a diagnosis I mentioned myself in the detailed note I left for your technicians.
I sent a letter similar to this email to Toyota Jemca's complaints department over two weeks ago and have had not had any reply whatsoever as of yet. I feel thoroughly let down by Toyota and I am seriously considering purchasing a different vehicle after this appalling customer service. I am also considering forwarding all this correspondence to local press and trading standards, should I still not receive any correspondence back from your company.
I have attached both incorrect diagnosis sheets that Jemca sent me, and the original letter I sent to them 2 weeks ago.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Regards
Reply from Toyota
Dear Mr Cohen,
I refer to your e-mail message of today to Sarah Fisher. Ms Fisher is not in the office now until Tuesday 16th May and I have, therefore, passed your message to our Customer Relations Manager, Mrs Emma Toms. I know that Emma will be in touch with you as soon as she is able.
Regards
Jean Soden
Secretary to Sarah Fisher, Director, Customer Relations, HR & Training
After two weeks of hearing nothing back from Jemca
Dear Sarah,
It disappoints me to have to write to you again concerning my email dated 9th May regarding my experiences with Jemca Toyota in Kingston.
I did receive a call, as promised, on the 9th May, from Jason Harrison. He explained he was very sorry for what happened and that I would, without question, receive a full refund and also a gesture of goodwill as recompense for the problems I had suffered. He said he would put something in writing on Thursday 11th May detailing what this gesture would be, and also issue the refund.
I have, now two weeks on, received no letter from Jason, no refund, and heard no mention whatsoever of any gestures of goodwill. I am shocked to discover, considering the severity of the problems I had suffered, which could have led me to be out of pocket to the tune of £1800, that this case has obviously not been looked upon with any degree of priority.
When I spoke with Jason on the 9th, he did his utmost to assure me that I could return to Jemca Kingston, safe in the knowledge nothing like this would happen again and that their customer's satisfaction is vital to them. I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, but now I feel there is little Toyota can do to restore any faith I once had with this company.
I am hugely disappointed with the outcome and feel I have no other choice than to report this matter to trading standards; an avenue I did not want to have to take.
I look forward to hearing your views on this matter.
Regards,
Their reply
Hello Mr Cohen
Thank you for alerting me to the fact that Jemca Kingston have not yet written as promised. I'm extremely disappointed to hear that they have let you down once again. I will contact Jason again this morning to understand why this has not yet happened and will revert to you immediately thereafter.
In the meantime, please accept my apologies for this unsatisfactory service.
Kind regards
Emma
then...
Hello again Mr Cohen
Please find below the response from Jemca (Kingston) and a copy of the letter which was sent to you directly. It appears that Jason's absence from the office was the reason for the delay in the letter, however I am assured that the reimbursement was requested before then so should now have registered on your account.
Once again, I apologise for the delay and trust that this now meets with your approval.
Kind regards
Emma Toms
(the letter stated I should have had a refund, the letter was sent on the 19th and they would offer me a free service)
My final reply
Dear Emma,
Thanks for your swift reply. There are a couple of things however, with which I am still dissatisfied.
The Word document which you have sent to me, which was supposedly written and sent to me on the 19th May, has a creation date of the 23rd May, today, at 11:03 am. It therefore appears that the letter wasn't sent to me on the 19th, as, by the looks of it, it hadn't even been written then. Given my previous experiences regarding the honesty of Jemca Kingston therefore, I find it highly likely that the letter was rushed out to me today with the date written to reflect the 19th (which would also explain why no hard copy has arrived).
Whether this is the case or not, I'm also unhappy with the goodwill gesture that Jemca Kingston have offered. Having suffered, now on numerous occasions, the incompetence and unsatisfactory customer service that this branch offers, I am in no way inclined to return my car to them to have any work carried out, including the free service they have offered.
I am however, currently trying to source a rear spoiler that Toyota produce for my MR2 (Rear Spoiler: Part number PZ402-W0450-AB, painted in Astral Black). The spoiler should be no more than the price of my 80k service and I would be happy to accept that as recompense for the poor service I have received up until now.
I am sure you can understand my frustrations and I look forward to hearing from you shortly.
Kind regards,
That's it for now!
jeepers s:shock: :shock: s:shock: and the worlds longest post goes to Chris!
go get em mate, good to see you got em cornered.
Yet again, I still don't understand why so many people are so worried about a 'service history stamp' being up to date from a garage, when they buy a second hand car.
This post yet again just shows what a waste of money it is to have a 'dealer' (or most garages for that matter) service your car.
(Obviously, during the warranty period you have no choice)
As I would think that the majority of people on this forum are 'enthusiasts', isn't that what it's all about? Servicing and maintaining your pride and joy yourself.
All modern cars generally only require an oil and filter change at the required intervals, with an occasional air and fuel filter with spark plugs.
Isn't it in your own interests to learn how to do this?, it's really not difficult at all.
I have to say that I really feel for Slurpy, as if he hadn't bothered to do his homework, he would have ended up with a monsterous bill for stuff not required, and to make it worse, not knowing that he had been ripped off blind!
As some of you know, I sold my 2 last year and bought a Honda Integra Type R (DC5), and guess what?, Honda dealers are no better! Suffice to say, I do my own servicing and maintainance (what there is of it)
Anyway, I say 'power to the people' and stuff dealers and garages!
A nice thought, but the fact remains that weather garages are servicing cars properly or not, a fully stamped service book makes the car both more sellable, and more valuable when the time comes to get rid of it. As long as that remains the case, then my car shall return to the main dealer every 10,000 miles.
I'll also add at this point, that I have never had any problems with my dealer whatsoever.
I have a 1994 Scorpio which I do all the servicing on myself including new poly bushes, shocks, springs, calipers, disks pads and I just keep all the receipts. I will do this with the 2 once it is out of extended warranty.
The Scorpio goes to Halfrauds once a year for an oil change because they only charge me £30 and it's not worth messing the drive up. Again this is what I will do with the 2 because you get a proper receipt for an oil change which is what most people would be looking for from a service. The added recipts just show that the car has been looked after so shouldn't affect the value of a 5+ year old car.
I totally agree about the value thing, but also have real worries about the validity of the stamps actual meaning when you think how many other incidents like Slurpy's happen and the owners are unaware or not as clued up as him. I really don't trust dealers and am quite happy that my 2 is out of warranty and I'm no longer tied to the dealer.
I wonder if Slurpy's 2 would be worth the £1800 more ,that the dealer was going to charge ,just for the fact that the work had a main dealer's ticket?
My other car is under warranty and that get's full dealer attention, as the cost if that went wrong would be considerable. Not entirely happy with those dealers either. I think having a dealer you can trust is of real value.