2/2000 with about 30tkm's
Started to make this clattering sound a while ago, it was barely hearable when I went to complain about it, the car was still under warranty then. After browsing SC maintenance area, I figured it's the belt tensioner. Toyota didn't hear anything, they said every sound they hear is normal and I should keep on driving and pay attention if it gets any louder.
Well, it did get louder...so I went in to complain again...this time the car was out of warranty already. This time they heard it too and thought it's the belt tensioner, which was changed under warranty. Didn't help anything though, the same clattering sound is still there and only keeps getting louder.
The next thing I notice is loss of oil, which also very suddenly turned black. Lost about 0.5l within 50km and it turned from "newlooking" to black. And got a definite loss of power as well. No signs of white cat particles on exhaust, or big white smoke, but everything else matches... s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Fingers crossed that it isn't the dreaded... well, you know what I mean, I don't dare say it! s:( :( s:(
Tem
Have you been able to pull your O2 sensors to see the pre-cats (although you will need a suitable O2 socket) ?
L
Quote from: "Lusaka"Have you been able to pull your O2 sensors to see the pre-cats
No, just got the car back today. The first thing I do tomorrow is call Toyota.
(don't have an O2 socket anyway)
Quote from: "Slacey"Fingers crossed that it isn't the dreaded... well, you know what I mean, I don't dare say it! s:( :( s:(
Well Sean's jinxed it again. Sorry Teemu, but your engine is stuffed now, as is anyone else who reads Mr Lacey's messages regarding engine problems!!!!
Quote from: "Peter Laborne"Quote from: "Slacey"Fingers crossed that it isn't the dreaded... well, you know what I mean, I don't dare say it! s:( :( s:(
Well Sean's jinxed it again. Sorry Teemu, but your engine is stuffed now, as is anyone else who reads Mr Lacey's messages regarding engine problems!!!!
But I didn't say it, I didn't!!
Yeah, OK - your right, it's screwed now! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
If its a 2/2002 model, how come its out of warranty already?
Ah...my bad, 2/2000 that is. And registered 9/2000.
I too have a noise apparently its the crankshaft told by 1 dealer out of warranty too 1 month so got the warranty extended and added a little more oil in the car just gona have to get it fixed under warranty + its only done 3000 miles after the service from MR T the documents signed by MR T and my self state the car has been inspected and has no mechanical or electrical fault ha ha ha ! should be a laugh.
Its funny how it happen just after the warranty is over well no way i got it exteneded by the lady at the reciption whom was more intrested me getting toyota insurance and how she saved 30 pounds woooooooooooo peeeeeee i said REALLY WOW sign here seen as uve checked the car and ill speak to u in a months time chaO!
Precats have turned to dust, main cat is stuck, pistons and cylider walls are scratched and very worn. Piston moves some 2-3mm's inside the cylinder. Also the crankshaft/bearings have marks on them.
Need I say more? s:? :? s:?
Remember that the noise only recently appeared and it was barely hearable with stereo and heater/blower off. I wouldn't have noticed it, if I didn't recently take the stereo completely off. And the powerloss only appeared just before the engine was opened.
I don't think the parts can wear out that much within the few km's drive after the powerloss appeared (the dealer said it's ok to drive it to them). So anyone who's waiting for obvious signs like powerloss (or cat particles from pipe or big smoke, neither which I didn't get so far) most likely already has a dead engine s:? :? s:?
...and after reading the posts on SC about some ppl having 3 engines replaced...guess I'll feel like sitting on a time bomb even after this one's fixed... s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
doh
Quote from: "Tem"I went to complain about it, the car was still under warranty
I went in to complain again...this time the car was out of warranty
Just got a call from Toyota and they will replace the engine, manifold, O2 sensors and cat under warranty. *phew*
yep, toyota is pretty good with warranty, especially if it is a known issue
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "Tem"I went to complain about it, the car was still under warranty
I went in to complain again...this time the car was out of warranty
Just got a call from Toyota and they will replace the engine, manifold, O2 sensors and cat under warranty. *phew*
Keep an eye on them though - so far all of the engine replacements have been bottom-end only (ie. short-engines) - the top end is being re-used and if there was no oil in it for any length of time there are going to be problems with the hydraulic tappets and the valve timing gear.
Quote from: "SteveJ"Keep an eye on them though - so far all of the engine replacements have been bottom-end only (ie. short-engines) - the top end is being re-used and if there was no oil in it for any length of time there are going to be problems with the hydraulic tappets and the valve timing gear.
Yeah, I was wondering about that...
Shame that I "have" to put the car on sleep when I get it. I can imagine how easy it will to complain about possible future problems next summer s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "ullujee"...... service from MR T the documents signed by MR T and my self state the car has been inspected and has no mechanical or electrical fault ha ha ha ....
How can they get you to sign that theres no mechanical or electrical faults? After all, you pay them to inspect it so only they can "certify" that s:? :? s:?
It could be a very clever way of making you liable for a law suit in the future. If a fault is found at a later date & he has signed to say nothing is wrong when he infact knew there was, they would have a claim of fraud s:!: :!: s:!:
Just a guess but not bad for 07:30am s:D :D s:D
Got her back yesterday s8) 8) s8)
Now anyone got any tips on how to drive the break in period nicely...??
The TRD clutch and flywheel are just screaming "REV ME, ABUSE ME!" s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "SteveJ"Keep an eye on them though - so far all of the engine replacements have been bottom-end only (ie. short-engines) - the top end is being re-used and if there was no oil in it for any length of time there are going to be problems with the hydraulic tappets and the valve timing gear.
Just reread this and you got me worried s:? :? s:?
Before the engine blew, it used to have "no" power until 2000rpm and then very smooth to some 4krpm, which has the torque peak. Now it feels dead till about 3000rpm, where the engine comes alive and goes smoothly from there...
Also, I got some noise again, sounds like the belt tensioner, but since I've never heard it, I can only guess...I wonder if anyone could download this clip and convert it to normal mpg or something:
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8366 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8366) m
(I'm not even going to mention that the power steering unit sounds like it's going to die any minute now s:cry: :cry: s:cry: )
ive got a bit of a clattering sound coming from my engine, really noticeable when you change gear at 3000 revs. think it might just be a corroded heatshield somewhere thats vibrating. still makes me paranoid though! s:( :( s:(
check teh heatshield around your cat pipe.
normally the casue.
already had that one removed as that corroded aswell! any others i should check?
which one?
theres one actually around teh cat and one supposedly welded to the bit where it goes from 2 -1 just before teh cat.
Quote from: "Tomr2"still makes me paranoid though! s:( :( s:(
I know the feeling...and hate it! s:? :? s:?
Could be that I'm hearing perfectly normal voices that have been there forever, but I never payed any attention to...wish I knew someone local with stock Roadster, so we could compare our paranoias s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "markiii"which one?
theres one actually around the cat and one supposedly welded to the bit where it goes from 2 -1 just before the cat.
the one that is around the main cat. can you see the other heat shield (the one that goes from 2-1) from looking into the engine bay or do i need to get it up on the ramps? by the way, which ones are 2-1? s:? :? s:?
you'll need to be under the car.
follow the cat pipe to where it meets teh manifold, there the pipe goes in to 2 flexi joints before hitting the flange that bolts to the manifold.
there are 2 or 4 small bolts to undo, then sinply bend teh heatshield a few times until any remaining weld snaps.
only snag is the heatshield is there to protect the plastic undertray from melting.
IRRC you don't have the plastics anyway though so shouldn't be a problem.
cheers mate, its a lovely day so i might get the car up on the jacks and have a look
just had a look and it doesn't look corroded at all
neither di mine, the weld had cracked though.
I removed it and problem gone.
just remembered that the engine only makes a clattering sound when its warm. does the heatshield need to be hot before it vibrates?
thats how mine started, as it got worse you could hear it when cold as well.
looks as if its gonna be tricky getting the 2 bolts out as they're heavily corroded s:( :( s:(
cant get them off mate, a 10mm isnt big enough and an 11mm just rounds it off s:( :( s:( any suggestions?
I didn't have quite such a bad problem.
if all else fails mole grips x 2 and lots of effort.
Quote from: "Tem"Got her back yesterday s8) 8) s8)
Now anyone got any tips on how to drive the break in period nicely...??
The TRD clutch and flywheel are just screaming "REV ME, ABUSE ME!" s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Yes I read an interesting article last week about engine break-in. It basicalyy says that having to run an engine in gently over a period of time is a myth and that manufacturers probably only recommend this because if they told you the best way to break in the engine they may be liable for litigation if there are any negative consequences i.e. you crash the car and die.
Guess you're wondering what the best way to break the engine in is? Warm the engine up thoroughly and then thrash the engine. It is important that this is done as soon as you drive the new engine. This sounds a bit mechanically unsympathetic doesn't it? Well read this:
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Yeah i think i've read this before Rusty..but IIRC this guy is talking about motorbikes is he not?
While the guy may be right, don't just take one person and their one view as gospel... (especially when they've such a naff site design s:) :) s:) )
Quote from: "phil4"While the guy may be right, don't just take one person and their one view as gospel... (especially when they've such a naff site design s:) :) s:) )
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: He probably also has another site fixing knackered new engines...
To be fair though I know that my old 206 GTI apparently didn't need running in, because apparently the GTI engine is run ona testbed at max RPM for so long before it passes inspection..
While that's all well and good it's different when the engine is linked to a new driveshaft etc. I bet the extra strain on the engine is exponentially increased..
Quote from: "MRMike"Yeah i think i've read this before Rusty..but IIRC this guy is talking about motorbikes is he not?
Yes he is talking about bike engines but I can't see it makes any difference. After all running in is mainly concerned with devoloping a good seal between piston rings and the cylinder liner so I can't see that bike or car engines are going to behave differently in this respect.
Just thought it might be of interest as an alternative view - if we don't consider other possibilities then how do we ever progress. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Definitely Rusty..I wasn't saying it was worthless information! Sorry if I gave that impression s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
ISTR recall that many. many years ago you could buy Riley sports cars "ready run in". [Urban legend has it that] Running in was achieved by a factory mechanic driving the car at speed between Coventry and Birmingham until the engine seized. Said mechanic would then jump out and enjoy a smoke whilst the bits cooled down. Once the engined had cooled and unseized, the car was driven gently back to the factory from where its new owner could take delivery of an already run in Riley!
Quote from: "phil4"While the guy may be right, don't just take one person and their one view as gospel... (especially when they've such a naff site design s:) :) s:) )
Phil, I hear what you're saying but equally, why take the general consensus of many people as gospel. With regard to running-in we hear lots of similar opinions from many people - that engines should be run in gently and this is reiterated in the manufacturers' manual. Before Roger Banister ran the mile in under 4 minutes the general opinion was that it wasn't possible and this milestone had remained unbroken for years. After he broke it, it was then broken again by a number of different people in a relatively short period of time. I know this has nothing to do with engines but general opinion is usually founded on the majority reiterating what they have heard from someone else.
Just going back to the engine running in thing - did you know that many manufacturers subject their brand new engines to a full throttle engine run as part of a final test before the car leaves the factory but these same manufacturers then advocate some sort of gentler running in procedure in the car manual. This makes no mechanical sense other than protecting the owner from writing the car and his / herself off after working the engine hard for the first 500 or 1000 miles.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that any particular method is right or wrong but merely that we should keep open minds to alternative possibilities. Hey, someone has to play the devil's advocate once in a while s:) :) s:) After all - each to his own
FWIW, even the manual says that "Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break-in.", but continues with "But following a few simple tips for the first 1000 km (600 miles) can add to the future economy and long life of your vehicle:" s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
(and then it lists the break-in stuff)
Quote from: "RUSTY"Quote from: "Tem"Got her back yesterday s8) 8) s8)
Now anyone got any tips on how to drive the break in period nicely...??
The TRD clutch and flywheel are just screaming "REV ME, ABUSE ME!" s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Yes I read an interesting article last week about engine break-in. It basicalyy says that having to run an engine in gently over a period of time is a myth and that manufacturers probably only recommend this because if they told you the best way to break in the engine they may be liable for litigation if there are any negative consequences i.e. you crash the car and die.
Guess you're wondering what the best way to break the engine in is? Warm the engine up thoroughly and then thrash the engine. It is important that this is done as soon as you drive the new engine. This sounds a bit mechanically unsympathetic doesn't it? Well read this:
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
I have raced motorcycles and have broken some new racing bikes in, as described in the article.
In the manual of racing bikes (KTM) those were the instructions (more or less). First fuel deposit (120 kms) never make full rpm, go to around 75% of power, in 2nd and 3rd gear, never maintaining constant speed, accelarating and decelarating all the time. Do more 380km, never maintaining full blast for long, but accelarating lots of times till full blast and decelarating, in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear. Change the oil, and oil filter and that's it. Ready to race.
I know that guys that race in car trophees (almost stock cars, and all of the same model) do the break in the same way.
So, I have broken in my Mr2 the same way. Picked the car from the shop, headed to the Spanish mountains, drove gently for 100km, went on mountain roads, and have done the same as described in the break-in of the motorcycle.
When I left the car at Toyota Shop with 1200km, and asked to change the oil (non synthetic) and the oil filter and put synthetic oil, they looked at me as if I was crazy, but they have done as I demanded. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Well...the break in is over and...uhm...any guesses? s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
The car pretty much refuses to go above ~60mph...and it can't even keep that speed on uphills, even if I floor it on 3rd. And when I tried to rev it on 1st, it made a helluva noise around 5-6k and couldn't even reach the limiter...
Precats seem ok, no loss of oil...and feels perfectly normal with light throttle and city speeds.
I was thinking that the old precats must be blocking the main cat/muffler, which they didn't bother to change...
Definately - old main cat is screwed. It seems jonboy has the same problem as well now.
Quote from: "Tem"I was thinking that the old precats must be blocking the main cat/muffler, which they didn't bother to change...
Your saying that they left your old manifold on here? Or new manifold with the old main cat?
Get rid of that main cat before your new engine is toast!
New manifold with old main cat...I doubt they even bothered to check it.
I'll get rid of the main cat, but I'll be wanting a new one from warranty first. I need it for inspections anyway s8) 8) s8)
(I was this " close to get the Ricoh racing exhaust from 143hawaii already)
Jesus, I'm amazed at the sheer Muppetness of MR T not checking the main cat after the pre-cats have broken down. If you didn't know what you know, Mr T could be staring at another engine replacement claim.
When my precat went they didn't replace the main cat, I did tell them to inspect it though and they said all was fine. To be honest I don't really believe this, so I'm just going to see how the car goes in the immediate future, apart from the white in the exhaust I've had no further symptoms. I'll definitely get it changed at the 10k service.
I really want a decat pipe. Howver I also quite like my warranty. I was wondering why there was never a removable decat pipe made...you cut cut the cat out of the exhaust then simply have a decat pipe with clamps on either end. So come service time and emissions time you could swap the old cat back in without having to pay for the privilidge of having it welded back each time. If in theory you could do this...presumably it would through CELs when the deacat was in place would it not?
H&S will make you a decat pipe that replaces teh cat pipe for approx £150
but bottom end torque will suffer. unless you chip it as well.
you would need to use an O2 conditioner, then it will be ok
Quote from: "markiii"H&S will make you a decat pipe that replaces the cat pipe for approx £150
but bottom end torque will suffer. unless you chip it as well.
Sorry about topic drift Tem!
Presumably I'd loose torque because of the loss of back pressure...to effectively plug this I'd need a chip that'd be user programmabe..rather than an off the shelf chip? Is that corrrect Mark?
Do you think H&S could make a self removable decat like i mentioned Mark? It's just with my old car it was a bloody pain to keep getting it put back on. The garage I had it installed at offered a free remove and replace shceme though..do H&S offer anything like this? Sorry I should really ring myself..but alas I am lazy
can you get chips that can have different maps at the touch of a button? so you could select 'economy map' for when its MOT time this would be handy if you've de-cat'd...
Quote from: "MRMike"Quote from: "markiii"H&S will make you a decat pipe that replaces the cat pipe for approx £150
but bottom end torque will suffer. unless you chip it as well.
Sorry about topic drift Tem!
Presumably I'd loose torque because of the loss of back pressure...to effectively plug this I'd need a chip that'd be user programmabe..rather than an off the shelf chip? Is that corrrect Mark?
Do you think H&S could make a self removable decat like i mentioned Mark? It's just with my old car it was a bloody pain to keep getting it put back on. The garage I had it installed at offered a free remove and replace shceme though..do H&S offer anything like this? Sorry I should really ring myself..but alas I am lazy
correct, I am summising that teh chip could be adjusted to make the best result with teh decat.
What your suggesting qwould still have 4 bolts and 2 flanges though I don't realy see any benefit to doing that over just swopping a decat pipe for teh cat pipe as and when needed.
however with the pre-cats and no main cat you can pass emissions.
Quote from: "MRMike"Sorry about topic drift Tem!
No worries, it's still on topic anyway s;) ;) s;)
Back to my car, the mechanics were sure the main cat was also changed and remember opening it to find the cells were gone in there as well. According to my cars service history it hasn't been changed though...I guess I'll take the main cat off for test, install some ear plugs and see how the car runs without any pipe s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
They also checked some stuff through OBD and even if there weren't any errors, one of them was pretty sure the VVT isn't working at all. They are going to change the VVT-i controller OCV and see if that makes a difference (next tuesday, when they get it).
I'll ask them to hire Steve, if that's the case s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "SteveJ"Keep an eye on them though - so far all of the engine replacements have been bottom-end only (ie. short-engines) - the top end is being re-used and if there was no oil in it for any length of time there are going to be problems with the hydraulic tappets and the valve timing gear.
I'm sure your keeping an eye on this by now anyway. but if teh VVTI isn't workign check you oil level.
I know when mine went in, with its extremely low Oil level the car would labour past 4500 rpm..they replaced the pre-cats..and refilled the oil level, didn't touch the VVTI mechanism at all, and the car feels fine. So like Mark says the oil level could be important. I had no idea about the Oil pressure controlling the VVTI timing gear until Mark told me
yep found out teh hard way that low oil means bugger all vvti.
Actually I've been checking the oil daily s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
It's just fine, doesn't seem to be losing any. I guess the VVT system got hurt when the engine blew..
*yawn* ...this is getting boring...
They changed the VVT controller valve and VVT started to work. But the car still won't go above 60mph. Now they said that they didn't change the cat after all and will change it and the manifold this time. And now they even thought that it's probably not safe to drive the car, so I got a Corolla for the week (they'll change the cat+manifold this friday)...
Oh btw, they said that Toyota Japan is very strict about the 3 years/100tkm and didn't even do the engine swap under warranty. Toyota Finland covered the whole thing...
Here we go again...the engine is losing oil fast, turning it black and making funny noises s:? :? s:?
While I'm at it, I might as well nag a bit about local Toyotas quality of work...though there aren't any finns here. The transmission oil check bolt was loose and dripping oil. The intake filter cover wasn't closed and there was a rag on top of the filter. The L-pipe before it wasn't connected to the box. One rear STB bolts was crossthreaded. Several scratches and dents in the engine compartment, rear fenders and rear bumper. They agreed to change the cllutch and flywheel to TRD for free, but I got charged for it and they even resurfaced the stock flywheel, which I had to pay. One of the water coolilng hoses broke off after some 50 miles, cause they didn't attach the clip. I wore out new pair of S03's, cause they didn't set the rear toe after the engine work.
...and they just don't seem to care about my complaints...
bloody hell mate, talk about being unlucky! what kind of monkeys do they have there working on your car?? is there not another dealership close by where you can take it to? any other dealer has got to better than that one!! s:? :? s:?
Of F**K i was hearing a clattering last night, suffering from loss of power Pre-3K and some other weird noises, remembered this post and have just re-read it.
Am PROPERLY worried as my '03 is showing ALL the same signs as Tem's.
Haven't checked oil etc yet though s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Quote from: "bigun007"Of F**K i was hearing a clattering last night, suffering from loss of power Pre-3K and some other weird noises, remembered this post and have just re-read it.
Am PROPERLY worried as my '03 is showing ALL the same signs as Tem's.
Haven't checked oil etc yet though s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
I hope you don't have to join this club s:? :? s:?
Go check your oils 5 mins ago s;) ;) s;) And while you're at it, check the precats and the tailpipe for white powder...
hmmm, an 03 failing aswell huh? i though toyota had made some differnces to the piston rings to stop oil getting past, but i suppose that still wouldnt prevent a blown engine caused from broken precats.
i really wish there was a pattern to these failures like a particular year or type of oil, driving style etc.. but it just seems be so random... s:? :? s:?
Can't check because car is @ home and haven't driven to work.........am PETRIFIED!
I think MrMike's was the first '03 to go though?
My pre-cat went..and it started to consume lots of oil, but the engine never let go though. Luckily for me!
Thought something was wrong the other night until I relalised that the banging was a screwdriver that fell behind the exhaust! Doh s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Has anyone had this blown engine problem twice????
Cos I have....
First time round they changed the engine parts. Now this this time they've changed the engine parts and the exhast from the manifold back.
Does anyone know what are the chances of me getting a blown engine again?
Quote from: "rainmen23"Has anyone had this blown engine problem twice????
Cos I have....
First time round they changed the engine parts. Now this this time they've changed the engine parts and the exhast from the manifold back.
Does anyone know what are the chances of me getting a blown engine again?
Welcome to the club (and I don't mean MR2 ROC) s:? :? s:?
They changed my engine as well, but left the blocked cat in there. Bye bye new engine s:? :? s:?
(there are several similar double blowns in SC as well)
Thx for the welcome
Though I'm on my second block, head (engine head that is) valve rods and 16 new valves and new manifold, exhast system
does this count?
Quote from: "rainmen23"Thx for the welcome
Though I'm on my second block, head (engine head that is) valve rods and 16 new valves and new manifold, exhast system
does this count?
Well...to be honest, even if everything was done right, you'll never know when/if it'll blow again s:? :? s:?
Check this thread:
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46) m
The worst case was on his 5th engine at about 25k miles and then he sold the car s:? :? s:? Some drive over 50k miles without any issues and then the engine goes.