And now I find myself on this website... s:P :P s:P
I've been looking at Celica 190s, MR2 Mk3s and Mitsu FTO's
I heard MR2 Mk3s were slow so kinda ignored the idea.
Celica 190s look good but pre facelift interior looks a bit tacky...
FTO's i think fastest out of all? (anyone know for sure?)
+ FTOs feel like a mini RX7 cockpit style seat position!!! s8) 8) s8)
then i realised MR-S have some amazing gearbox???
so really its FTO vs MR-S ?
what would be quicker?
I like the idea of convertible for summer + RWD (would ideally want a hardtop too) MR-S has good looks.
But the FTO looks amazing out the box, has the V6 sound, 4 seats and 200bhp... lol
Enlighten me please.
Nick s:D :D s:D
(R.I.P. Honda Civic)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/EK_nick/4.jpg)
Hi,
I am qualified to answer this question (I knew one day I would)
I have had 3 FTO's GR ( 4 SPEED TIP) GPX (MANUAL) GPvR (5 SPEED TIP) and now have a 54 plate MR2
The FTO is a lovely car, has the looks, has the speed, has boot space !! and quite economical. the 4 seats is only ok if you have passengers with small legs, not sure on your finances, but they are getting a bit long in the tooth now unless you go for a 1997 facelift model, newest you are gonna get is a 2000 but be prepeared to pay over 8k
Insurance is bad group 20 !! mainly due to the parts being a nightmare to get, and the fact that it was never a uk car. scrap yards are fine, but things like alternators, brake disks, and most other parts you dont buy second hand cost mega bucks, if you go ahead be careful, things can go bad very quickly, I spend nearly 2k in 6 months of ownership on one of my 3 babies, alternator,cambelt, water pump, then heater matrix (whole dashboard off job)
Its an expensive hobby having an FTO
As for the MR2, only had mine 6 months, if you like driving go carts, like the wind in your hair, and have no luggage, then the MR2 is fine, mechanics wise they seem to be tip top and parts are easy to come across. insurance looking at group 13 and a basic 2000 model looking at 5.5-6k, a jap import MR-S looking at 4.5k-5.5k
person you should pm is starzz121
her other half drives an FTO and she has the mr2. If its straight power you want though then get the FTO in the v6 version, but if you want something with playability in the corners then the mr2 is the way to go, plus with a few modifications could have a brilliant cornering car with more than enough power for the straights
thanks! well i can get insured on an FTO... already found that out!
just getting a quote for an MR-S now...
how much quicker is an FTO compared to MRS ?
dont they have the same 0-60 in 7secs ?
how can you tell you have a true MRS and not just a kitted up UK MR2?
how can you tell if your MRS has LSD ?
If an MRS is slower... how much cash and what mods would be needed to make it as fast as an FTO?
sorry about all the questions!
Nick s:D :D s:D
MR-S is the same as thr MR-2 - just a different name.
There are various special editions and more variety of body kits on the Jap cars, but I think only 1 or 2 actual special editions that increase power (and not by much)
The 'trick' gearbox you refer to is the automatic SMT - which is also on UK MR2s.
If its outright speed you require, why not just get an Imprezze and wind up the turbo?
It is not worth comparing MR2 VS FTO for BHP
They are not in the same league
MR2 1.8 VVTI = 138
FTO GS 1.8 = 160
FTO GR V6 2.0 = 180
FTO GPX V6 MIVEC 2.0 = 200
Biggest issue for me when I had my FTO's was comfort, they are very harsh.
Classic quote from Max Power for FTO'S
"Should be up with Porsches, struggles to beat Mondeo's"
Quote from: "blackpool1974"It is not worth comparing MR2 VS FTO for BHP
They are not in the same league
MR2 1.8 VVTI = 138
FTO GS 1.8 = 160
FTO GR V6 2.0 = 180
FTO GPX V6 MIVEC 2.0 = 200
Biggest issue for me when I had my FTO's was comfort, they are very harsh.
Classic quote from Max Power for FTO'S
"Should be up with Porsches, struggles to beat Mondeo's"
Unless you turbo one of course! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
MR2 turbo kits will give approx
TTET 197Bhp
TTET SP240 238Bhp
C2 & Hass will be approx 270Hp
cant remember what the PE kit gives but its something in the middle and the prolex Supercharger is around 240Bhp iirc
either way a lot more than the FTO, all depends what you want though
All Mr2's and MrS's (same basic car and engine as above) come with LSD's regardless of year.
MR2 = RWD
FTO = FWD
'Nuff said if you like driving proper cars. s8) 8) s8) s;) ;) s;)
I do love the way the FTO looks I must admit, and if it were RWD it would be a no-brainer if I'm honest. Either car is fun, it just depends what price you put on having a convertible rather than a tin-top.
Quote from: "simonp"All Mr2's and MrS's (same basic car and engine as above) come with LSD's regardless of year.
s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Who told you this??
Quotea jap import MR-S looking at 4.5k-5.5k
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: I wouldn't expect much for that money!
i thought the MR-S manual gearbox had different gear ratios in 2nd + 3rd ?
different leagues of speed? surely they cant be that far apart? (fto vs mrs)
ive read 0-60s on them both being just around 7secs...?
i was originally going to buy an fto before i got my mr2. and yes the fto is a lovely car, but you will find that the fto suffers the same as the mr2 with a lack of tourque.
one thing that changed my mind was the maintaing cost for the fto. yes they are not a bad price but running one can be. alot of mitsi dealers won't touch them, and if they do they tend to take your wallet at the same time.
don't get me wrong i love the fto, and think it is gorgeous, but the 2 cars you are comparing are like chalk and cheese, and perform very differently.
the mr2 is much lighter so the fto may have more power but its fornt wheels have to pull all that weight. the 2 is under a ton and rear wheel so acts far more like a sports car. the handling on the 2 is more nimble and far superior for twisty country roads.
neither car will be a straight drag race winner, not with out some serious cash being spent on the engine. and 0-60 times say very little about a car.
what you want to look at is power to weight ratio, and how that car delivers it (puts it on the ground) a ford mustang would out drag a 2 easily, but stick it on the nurembourg ring and the 2 will beat it.
my advice is go and test drive both cars, get a feeling for both and see what you think. thats the only way to make a decision. and at the end of the day you have to drive the car, so it needs to be your choice. you also have to remember we are all a little biased on this forum, same as the FTOOC would be about their car. (go visit their forum as well its very good and should give you more info)
yeh thanks! ive been on that board for a while now too!
obviously i knew that they were two totally different cars but they seem to be in the same kind of market for some people as you also said you were choosing between them...
Say im looking to spend £4k - £5k... FTOs i'd be looking at Facelift MIVECs 1997 (-1999 if lucky)
MRS' First example ive seen is a black 1999 with 34k miles for £5,300
so are the gears on MRS manuals the same as UK manuals??
I would test drive both but cant see that happening tbh! Especially with the tight Toyota dealerships around here!
i believe their are minor variations.
i think that there was a discussion on the forum where we discussed gear you were in when you hit 80. if i am correct in my thinking (correct me if i'm wrong) the jap imports had to change up from 2-3 at 70 ish, where as the uk spec will hit it in second!
i think that the jap spec has a slightly shorter gear ratio to cope with the heavy traffic of japan. where the uk car is slightly longer gears to cope with long motor way drives. (or something like that).
makes sod all difference!
my advice is if you want power, get the mr-s and then turbo it, or chip it.
standard 138 bhp
n/a 160 bhp = £1000- £1500 (dependant on what bits, but taking into account exhaust mods and a unichip)
engine swap 190 bhp £2500 - £3000
turbo anywhere between 200-300 bhp £4000 (after all bits and tweeking)
super charger 240 bhp £4000 (there or around roughly)
Quote from: "N777CK T"i thought the MR-S manual gearbox had different gear ratios in 2nd + 3rd ?
different leagues of speed? surely they cant be that far apart? (fto vs mrs)
ive read 0-60s on them both being just around 7secs...?
As for the ratios, they are different for mr-s and mr2, ive owned both and i felt the mr-s 5 speed was better geared for acceleration, the ratios were shorter and it picked up speed a lot quicker. However when crusing on motorway revs were higher. I was lucky enough to get a mr-s with lsd as it is a option in japan and not all of them have it.
As for the Mr2 i own now its now a 6 speed and all the uk models have lsd. i feel the ratios are not as good for acceleration but the crusing revs are a lower making long journeys better and the 6th gear also helps with a theoretical top speed of 170ish whilst the mr-s hit the limiter at 140mph. i will be turboed shortly so the 6 speed will work to my advantage for turbo as for NA the jap spec gearbox would be better for acceleration.
0-60 time is around the 7s region on the mr2 not too sure about the fto but since the fto is a 6 cylinder it would should have slightly better mid range pull and top end.
what engine did ur civic have? i use to own a ek4 vti-s, great car and did miss vtec when i switched to the mr2 but for handling the mr2 is in a league of its own, the turbo should recoup the difference..
as for test drives, give a shout out to local owners, or come down to a meet. people are quiet welcome to show off there cars.
i guess most would take you out, and some will let you try them out (can't make any promises) and i'm guessing the same goes for the FTO lot. we've met them and they a nice bunch!
engine swap 190... £2500 ? can it be done
what condition engine are we talking about here?
this is the VVTLi 190 ZZT231 engine right?
what about the K20 out of a Civic Type-R ? how much would that cost? lol ive seen a few people with them on the internet...
Quote from: "kashy"i use to own a ek4 vti-s, great car and did miss vtec when i switched to the mr2 ..
i thought the vtec on the hondas and the vvti on the toyotas are almost the same!
engines swaps can be done rogue in coventry does the 2zz swap, and i do believe he has been putting the mk 2 turbo engine in a roadster as well
price is a rough estimate by the way
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"Quote from: "kashy"i use to own a ek4 vti-s, great car and did miss vtec when i switched to the mr2 ..
i thought the vtec on the hondas and the vvti on the toyotas are almost the same!
DOHC VTEC is similar to VVTLi (you get a kick)
VVTi is just like SOHC VTEC
vvtli 190bhp is quite similar to vtec with a lift point at 6k. That engine is similar style to the DOHC vtec. The Stock vvti engine is also DOHC but not vtec.......
you may remmeber the crxs where they use to come in a 1.6 16v and a 1.6 vt, the vvti engine is similar to the 1.6 16v as both are DOHC and 16v however both lack vtec/lift.
The engine swap with the 190bhp is a good route to take if you want to stay NA. Ive read in places that the swap does match/beat the S2000. The K20 route is possible but means a lot of custom fabrication and will end up costing around the £5-6k region id imagine. Few guys on spyderchat rekon $12-$15k, LINK HERE (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29129&highlight=k20).
so can anyone clear up / point me in the right direction so i know all the differences between an MR2 and MR-S ? and the different versions of them...?
thanks. nick.
Quote from: "N777CK T"this is the VVTLi 190 ZZT231 engine right?
the 190 engine is the 2ZZ-GE
Quote from: "N777CK T"so can anyone clear up / point me in the right direction so i know all the differences between an MR2 and MR-S ? and the different versions of them...?
In terms of the differences between years of MR2 Roadster: m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4807 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4807) m
Between the MR-S and MR2 we don't seem to have a handy list, so here's what I can remember off the top of my noggin:
MR-S has shorter gear ratios over the European gearbox
MR-S did not have an LSD as standard until 2003 (I think), MR-2 has always had one as standard (definitely).
MR-S will come with a silly Japanese radio s;) ;) s;)
MR-S has no rearmost plastic 'nappy' so the CAT is visible from the rear of the car
MR-S has no factory alarm, just immobiliser (UK cars have a Cat1 Toyota branded alarm fitted at port of entry)
There was a basic version of the MR-S which came without power windows, radio etc (I think even steel wheels!) - these seem to be very rare indeed.
The engines are the same regardless of country, same power. The only differences there are:
Japanese cars do not have the third post-CAT O2 sensor for ODB-II compliance.
Japanese ECUs do not use standard ODB-II signalling, and reading the fault codes is impossible (or to be exact, nobody has found a code reader that works yet!)
I think that's everything.. or most things, at least.
ok thanks for that... just read all about the 2ZZ-GE swap and got a nice insurance quote on it so think a UK spec one will do for me at first.
s:) :) s:)
MR-S might be too much hassle as i've been looking at imported cars a while...
Quote from: "kanujunkie"person you should pm is starzz121
her other half drives an FTO and she has the mr2. If its straight power you want though then get the FTO in the v6 version, but if you want something with playability in the corners then the mr2 is the way to go, plus with a few modifications could have a brilliant cornering car with more than enough power for the straights
lol wher eu got that from i get my mr2 in 5 weeks and my fella drives a golf hehe bless!! i think he wishes he drove an FTO!!
i think you mean squidge! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Just thought i'd chip in. I have an FTO (GR - V6) pre facelift, as well as my MK1 MR2 Supercharger.
For all out speed (at least off the line) my MK1 MR2 kills the FTO. Though bear in mind I have a modded SC s;) ;) s;)
However, have been using the FTO as a daily driver for almost a year and it's never missed a beat (touch wood). They are actually very reliable (at least GR's are; I hear the mivecs are a touch more stressing on their engines). Performance between GR and GPX isn't enough to worry about, the Manual box gives better performance though. When looking at an FTO you will often be told to go for the best condtion one regardless of Transmission and I agree... I am a manual zealot and my SC is manual, but the FTO's tip tronic really is quite good. Not when you are moving around car parks (the usual clunkyness of an auto selector) but out on the road it's a joy to use, esp if you swap the gear change direction as some do (inc me). Just floor it and switch up/down with a flick of the wrist no need to take your foot off the throttle! Feels cool though real hardcore racers will always take the manual option.
If you are going facelift post 97 then I rec the GX (rebadged GR sports package that I have) which has 5 speed tiptronic instead of 4 and a stronger box + 10 more horses (180 vs 170).
I haven't driven a MK3 mr2 however though I know they are not as fast stock as a manual GPX is supposed to be ( ~6.8 ). I'd say they may be quite even upto 80mph in other guises. MR2 should handle better of course (I hope so!) and the FTO is a FWD car which while that sounds rubbish it's extremely good at handling (one of the best FWD cars for handling in a lot of reviews).
best points about the FTO?
.Looks Gorgeous/looks as if it's worth loads more than it costs
.Very practicle (large boot and back seats for 'stuff' though not really seating for 4 adults for long journeys - i treat it as a 2-seater anyhow.
.Nice driving feel/sporty supension/handling
.Equipment (Digital AirCon + few other toys and IMO sporty interior if you get the seats that have a subtle grey/blue instead of the shell suit multi coloured nonsense)
.Camskill, Japco and other places have all the bits you need!
.Beautiful to drive and still outhandles a lot of cars even rwd ones power steering seems nicely weighted.
.Excellent sound... idle is quiet but deep (esp with sports zorst) but best sound comes from the V6 itself when you work it towards redline (how it likes to be driven) it literally ROARS and sounds amazing... (not as good as an S2000 or what have you but for the money it's very sweet). Mivec on top sounds good too but maybe a bit more harsh than the normal V6 which sounds good anyway.
bad points
.Not as fast as it should be or looks to be
.Everyone trys to race you (esp stealth novas/chavs)
.Tinny metal (lightweight build considering size @1100 - 1200kg average)
.If you crash it midly, it will likely be written off due to parts VS car value - HOWEVER japco can save you!
.Front drop links (go quite often - cheap and easy to replace though)
.Insurance group - prob best not to get one until at least 25 (i'm 33)
.Drivers side central locking is weak (can be fixed cheaply)
.Sometimes harsh ride (lack of soundproofing and sporty setup don't help)
.Rattly Tappets, doesn't harm but can sound like a tractor at idle until warm on a cold winters day. Adjustable on the GPX/Mivecs, have to be replaced on the GR/Non mivec V6. Around £200 to replace (yourself). Drives fine with it, and normally passes within first 5 minutes. In summer you are not likely to hear it at all and it's only due to higher mileage (~60k?), replace them and get another 60k before it rattles again (I THINK)
thanks for that! but i forgot to let you know i changed my mind in the end and got this!
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/EK_nick/DSC00621sharp.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/EK_nick/800.jpg)
hope you like s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
FTO at 25? im 20 and an FTO was a hell of a lot cheaper than this on insurance! s:P :P s:P
they are beautiful cars,
i hopeyour pockets are deep they require a lot of garage time, and it aint cheap.
Brave man, but I congratulate you. They are gorgeous and we all know about how they drive s:) :) s:) s:) :) s:)
How many miles is on it? Did it have it's rebuild yet? RX7 (FD3s) was in the running when I looked at cars previously but i'm so damn paranoid about the running costs/engine rebuilds.
I would still have one over many cars if I had the cash for repairs.
As for the FTO info, it will still be of use to someone in future who may be looking. FTO doesn't even start to compare to the RX7 as a serious driver's car though, but it is a VERY sensible all rounder and quite light in the pocket.
I'm suprised you even got insurance on the REX at your age! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"i think you mean squidge! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Think I have come accross this post a little late...
Yes its me who used to have an FTO and my other half still does s:) :) s:) guess it's too late now to offer to take you out in both....! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
The Rex is a good choice - drive safley & enjoy.
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"i think you mean squidge! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Think I have come accross this post a little late...
Yes its me who used to have an FTO and my other half still does s:) :) s:) too late now to offer to take you out in both! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
FWIW this would be a no-brainer for me.....
I know I haven't got an MR2 (yet..... s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: ) but I feel like I can add some info anyways.
The FTO is FWD (I detest FWDs but that's beside the point) and it will torque steer like mad if you want to run any decent power in the future. Fact. Twinned with no-one really seems to realise how important power to weight ratios are in the 'real' world anymore. That V6 lump will weigh a ton.....what with it being over the front wheels also means you're going to spend a fair bit getting a correct suspension set up (if you throw yourself seriously into the mods) so make something out of it.
Yes for traffic light grandprix the FTO will have the top end but to buy a RWD, light, nimble and a convertible for the same money (ok, maybe a little more) thats just screams "Pick me! PICK ME!". Unfortunately the roads today don't allow for a lot of top-end fun, I think small and nimble is the way to go. (thats my excuse to the other half as well....er......yeah)
The FTO has more room, a boot and will be more practical over all so it really does depend on what you want. A sports car or a practical car....
My fun car Is a Mazda RX7 that i've gone cra-zy on and as I love my jap cars, I tend to only go for the ones that will give you more in the long run.....i.e. tunability and i'm ashamed to say, a bit of "Wow! WTF is that?!" factor.
Just my2 pence worth....
edited to say....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA good on you fella!!!
Don't worry about the engine re-builds, at £3k a pop for new ones it's not too crazy....apart from the fuel bills!!
What has it had done etc.....I can put you onto a good Rex tuner as well....
s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "Chris_h"MR-S is the same as thr MR-2 - just a different name.
There are various special editions and more variety of body kits on the Jap cars, but I think only 1 or 2 actual special editions that increase power (and not by much)
The 'trick' gearbox you refer to is the automatic SMT - which is also on UK MR2s.
If its outright speed you require, why not just get an Imprezze and wind up the turbo?
Wouldn't bother with the Scooby, especially modded. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I've had 2, WRX and STI, theyre a massive drain on your finances, always getting nicked and it will only be time before either your crank or piston goes pop. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
You must have had some bad experiences then fella
It does cost a fair bit to get them running decent power (not the newer sti's) and that is money you'll never get back but thats the same with any car youmod....
The Subaru was great, it's just so sad they have a 'chav' image now.
Right about them being nicked all the time though.....for one of the quickest point-to-point cars out there, they're great for bank robbers! That's why the plod have invested in a few! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
But they were always going to be sort after cars....for a car that fits 5 adults very comfortably, enough bootspace to pack away a couple of suitcases with sports car performance....they were bound to be.....
Not that i'm saying FWD isn't ultimately a pile of **** if ultimate performance if what you are after, and an MR2 is the easy/sensible purchase if you are after a street racer (compared to a slower, less modifiable and FWD FTO). However, the FTO weighs less than most cars it's size (mine is 1150kg which is less than an s2000 for ex). Sure the V6 is going to be heavier and it's over the front wheels, but in my experience having come from a "sorted" mk1 MR2, then Mr2SC to using an FTO on a daily basis you don't loose THAT much in handling on every day road trips (even fast driving). As I said, the FTO handles very well for a FWD up there with the integra type R.
I still wouldn't reccomend one over an MR2 if speed/handling/racing is your bag but sometimes people want a less extreme car with a tad more practicality at a VERY good price (that also looks good) and that is the slot the FTO fills (it's also pretty safe with it's FWD for when my GF uses it, it's a shared car).
Obv the original poster wouldn't have been happy with an FTO if he's gone for the demon RX7 s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: but let's not write the FTO off as it is suitable for many as a stylish second car, and I love every minute i'm driving it (as I don't drive everywhere like i'm trying to win some imaginary "race" on the street).
The other cars mentioned (Skyline, Scooby, Evo etc) of course they are going to be far ahead of an FTO in their capabilities but they are not in the same price range (£2k for a half decent FTO). FTO is a decent, cheap package that in V6 form is fast enough for many normal drivers, but I agree it's not the best tuners car but not everyone wants to go to the extreme in EVERY car they buy. s:) :) s:)
I agree, of course they don't.....but buy the looks of the original posters civic, I could tell he's a 'modder' through and through... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Anyway another soul captured by the REX.....next stop, world domination... s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: