I recently bought an MRS 2001 with 80000 miles on it, i think i made a big mistake today when i broke down, the engine started knocking and then when i pulled up at traffic lights its stopped altogether.
I think the engine partly seezed. I put oil in it as it was lower than low and oil light never came on, the engine didnt overheat as its water cooled. but the engine management came on. I kept driving with it on. So i filled it with oil and jump lead started it and turned over but still knocking checked under the cover and the sparks are in place ok, sounds like the pistons or big head are away just keep knocking on the block loud.
I need advice on what i should do:- 1. Buy a new engine and get Toyota to fit very expensive i imagine.
2. Buy a second hand engine from a breaker and get a local garage to fit a fair bit cheaper
3. Recondition the existing engine if someone is an expert in it is there anyone on here which can help?
4. Reapir somehow?
5. Can an MR2 work in the MRS? if so its an 1.8vvti dont know the difference between MR2 and MRS?
6. What would you the expert do in my position?
I would really appreciate help on this situation, i cant believe i was so stupid. I could have probably prevented this.
Thanks for you time reading.
Yours Rab Scott Hawick, Scottish Borders. 07877469893
If it's any consolation there is a good chance that you old engine was oval bored,eating oil and on it's way out anyway you probably could have only postponed things.I would definitely go for no2 as long as you can verify the mileage and year of the car its come from with a post 2003 engine being the 1ZZ of choice,I don't see any reason why you can't drop an MR2 engine in there as it is the same engine as the MRS.
Number 3 has big variables in it. I had a VR6 rebuilt and it wasn't cheap.
The engine is definitely goosed. Probably span a bearing on the big end and damaged the conrod and crank shaft. Best case scenario with that engine would be being able to skim the big end of the conrod and the big end journal. Worst case is you'll need a new crank shaft and set of conrods. You don't know until you take the sump off and look. Like Bryan said. Probably something else wrong with it in the first place.
I'd go for option 2 out of your list.
What about hidden option 7? Drop in a 2ZZ.
OK before you do any of those, check the condition of the precats.
If they are intact then it may not be oval bore syundrome.
After checking that and assuming your main cat isnt fubar, then I would go with option 2 also.
If you choose option 1 you may as well buy a new car it would be cheaper.
oh dear, commiserations, it's never a happy situation.
I would suggest option 2 is your best bet, I wouldn't worry about whether the engine comes from an MR2 or MR-s. But I would factor in gutting the precats (if there's anything left of them) and replacing the maim cat.
Give Olberj a call and see if he has any recomendations of sources or garages. Sjspitz might be able to offer sources too.
Best result would be a lowish mileage engine produced after 2003.
Good luck
Tough luck and we feel for you.
If you bought it from a garage and very recent, you may have some options under sale of goods.
Otherwise its source a secondhand engine, or cut your losses and sell as is...
Oh dear sounds exactly like the problem I had with my Celica (same engine unfortunately).
As suggested, if you are buying a second hand engine... its best to make sure it has come out of a 2003 onwards car.
Alternatively, on ebay they are selling reconditioned enginers (including fitting) for £900 with warranty ...
Just be careful when buying a second hand engine, could be expensive if it was to happen again.
Quote from: "Chris_h"Tough luck and we feel for you.
If you bought it from a garage and very recent, you may have some options under sale of goods.
Otherwise its source a secondhand engine, or cut your losses and sell as is...
Definitely something to do if it was a garage purchase.
Personal purchases are very different, but you never know. The first thing you have to prove in that case is the seller knew of the fault and failed to disclose it, though you might not be home and dry on that. Worth checking all the dash lights come on when you turn ignition on (especially oil and CEL). If they don't somebody's been fiddling with them.
I just got a price 54 plate MR2 engine 48000 miles on it, £850 +vat then i would have to pay for the fitting. I think it is a bit expensive any thoughts?
I got a phone call this morning from a guy on this forum saying that the 2001 engines prduced then before 2003 were slightly faulty anyway with piston rings going lose and dry oil was only a partly fault to what would have happened eventually.
I would imagine any engine before 2003 would be a lot cheaper but should i spend more and get a one like above it is a 1ZZFE and should work. I would let the mechanic know about the precats etc for cleaning anyway.
Does anyone who of cheaper engines 2003 onwards if that is the best to get? and How long would this type of engine take to fit? I have a friend who is a very good mechanic who would do it cheaper than most but just wondered how long it would take to change since it has to come out from underneath.
It was a private sale no garages were involved and i wouldnt trouble the last owners just want to get it fixed as its very much worth it as i plan to keep it till i am old and grey. I am only 29 so hopefully will become a great classic.
Thanks again for your support
Robert Scott
Hawick
Scottish Borders
As far as my knowledge goes, the 2003 onwards is the same engine, just without the issues s:) :) s:)
My 2000 engine on my Celica only lasted 84k. But this is very common on the pre-2003 models... Big Ends, Small Ends, Pistons, Oil issues, etc.
Tbh, I think that price on the 54 plate engine is reasonable... Bout the same price as a refurbed engine... Just need to get a price on fitting. I had mine fitted by a couple of mates and paid £150 plus oils, coolant, fluids, etc...
Sounds like a reasonable price to me.
After 2003 they changed the design of the pistons to avoid the oval bore problems.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Sounds like a reasonable price to me.
After 2003 they changed the design of the pistons to avoid the oval bore problems.
I was the mystery user who called in the morning... This is what I was trying to explain about engines that are 2003 onwards
That price seems ok to me
Mohammed s:D :D s:D
yeah i think it might be a good price as the breaker is only 18 miles from me and the fact its still in the MR2 which is written off. i could see it before it gets took out.
I might just get it, as i have seen others on ebay similar but there again they are miles away and you never know what your buying sometimes + i dont want the older version oval bored engine as it might do the same again, they might look all clean and silver but you never know. I know they tried the oval bore on Honda super bikes and they did a similar thing and never lasted very long.
But here is my alternatives i found but i will keep searching just incase, if nothing turns up in a week i will get the one from my local breaker.
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CELICA-MR2 ... arParts_SM (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CELICA-MR2-ROADSTER-1-8-VVTI-1ZZ-ENGINE-99-05-/330280164323?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM) m
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-1-8-VV ... arParts_SM (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-1-8-VVTI-ENGINE-1ZZ-99-05-/230354742854?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM) m
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toyota-MR2-Roadst ... arParts_SM (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Toyota-MR2-Roadster-Engine-2004-Petrol-1-8-16V-VVTI-37k-/270621632663?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM) m
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-CELICA ... arParts_SM (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-CELICA-3SGE-ENGINE-94-99-/250675395156?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM) m
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MRS-MR2-EN ... arParts_SM (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MRS-MR2-ENGINE-1-8-VVTI-SUPPLY-FIT-99-2006-/370406920744?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM) m
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-1-8-VV ... arParts_SM (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-1-8-VVTi-00-06-ENGINE-SUPPLY-FIT-WARRANTY-/180551080446?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM) m
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-AVENSIS-CE ... arParts_SM (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-AVENSIS-CELICA-MR2-1-8-VVTI-RECON-ENGINE-00-06-/120611135157?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM) m
Price looks okay to me. Added bonus if you can see it running in the car up the breakers too!
Regarding the whole list of options, wrote a reply to a similar Q yesterday : l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30803&view=unread#p376436 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30803&view=unread#p376436) l
Consider the option already mentioned above too - there's one sure fire way to get around the risk of future 1ZZ failures - ditch the cruddy 1ZZ altogether s:P :P s:P lol
Personally, I would rather go with a used 2003 onward engine than a recon. Trouble with recons is that they are of variable quality and may or may not work well or last long.
As for fitting a 2zz, that involves a lot of extra work and some parts, wiring ect and also needs the matching gearbox to make the most of it. Main problem with 2zz is finding a good one. They seem to be rarer than rocking horse shit at the moment.
Chris
Maybe another option instead, v6? or I've got 3S-GTE here going spare? s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: lol
But yes, as in the post i've linked to above - expect extra work if moving away from the 1ZZ! (I'm sure it would be worth it though).
how much we talking and how much extra work?
Quote from: "rabscott2003"how much we talking and how much extra work?
Realistically, you would be looking at £4500 to do either properly and effectively. 2zz is less work, but you need to fit a half decent exhaust manifold and system to allow it to rev out properly. 1mz means cutting into the chassis rails and again, free flowing exhaust.
Realistically, finding a 2zz in good order is going to be a luck of the draw thing, I have been looking for months and have only been messed about by the salvage trade.
Chris
ill just go with my local supplier, its a safer bet and probably with less hassle and the cheapest option.
I got another price £895 delivered fully reconditioned engine originally from 2006 celica. engine has been dissassembled; new bearings and crankshaft fitted, new head gasket, recon cylinder head new piston rings and honed block. 27000miles on it the guy said. 1zzfe engine.
here are the pictures of this engine
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMG_0816.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMG_0817.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMG_0818.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMG_0819.jpg)
Now i know it sounds good, but how can i actually know if it is a 2006 and with 27000miles on it? The guy said he sends engines in a metal container customised for the engine, and a 6 month warranty comes with every one, also i asked him why he would change an engine crank shaft etc when the engine has only done 27000miles and is only 4 years old, he said to be sure that we dont get a problem and that warranty would last. And the fact that when they import the engines from japan they dont know exactly how much mileage they have on them as odometers can be faked.
Saying that he said i could view it if i wanted before i buy. There company is called Idealengines from Barking London. So they seem to know what they are talking about.
I dont know whether to go with this one rather than the 2004 from a mr2 in the scrap yard which has 47000miles on it for £100 more.
Does anyone know if this could be a reconditioned 2000 model and not a 2004 which they say it is? I see there is a model code on it could i find out what kind it is as i dont want a oval bored engine.
The thing is i know the MR2 in the local breakers is a 2004, I am in 2 minds..................???
Just had a phone call from a company in Yorkshire Full engine swap including alternator, starter etc full service warranty 3 months, they specialise in engine swaps its a 2006 mr2 23000miles from the UK they are a breakers so the car has had an front end smash, they do however have to keep my old engine and alternator etc here is the link m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... TQ:GB:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370406920744&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123) m
Now i have 4 options what do i do...................?
Haggle with the breakers,be tough with them and offer them £200 less than they want and see where you end up.
Quote from: "rabscott2003"i dont want the older version oval bored engine as it might do the same again, they might look all clean and silver but you never know. I know they tried the oval bore on Honda super bikes and they did a similar thing and never lasted very long.
sorry to hear about your engine woes and hope you get it sorted without too much hassle. My 2000 W car seems to drink oil a bit. Just to clarify, the older 1ZZ engine never left the factory with oval bores (we hope) it is a problem that can develop, whereas the Honda NR750 to which I assume you refer left the factory with oval pistons (like tins of spam) and 8 valves per cylinder, so a bit of a difference!
I have put a deposit down on a yorkshire firm who is going to give me a 2006 23000miles engine including alternator, starter all parts from the 2006 and do a straight swap, all for £1195 they are going to clean all cats and do a service on the car including warranty. Now i hope the AA can uplift it for me. Also in the deal for an extra £50 they can swap the wiper linkage arms and blades which on mine are a bit old and loose, and the electric aerial.
So it looks like i could be up and running in no time. I am going to do a report for this and ask the garage to take pictures throughout the change over.
Hopefully with this recommendation others can do what i am doing and have a car that should last me a long long time.
Quote from: "rabscott2003"Does anyone know if this could be a reconditioned 2000 model and not a 2004 which they say it is? I see there is a model code on it could i find out what kind it is as i dont want a oval bored engine.
The block
NEVER changed during the production life of the 1ZZ, so I dont know why you are fixated on the early ones having 'oval bores'.
There was a problem with the bores
GOING oval when they fail, and the reasons for that have never been completely explained (except to say that the Avensis suffered the same problem and it doesnt have pre-cats s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )
I would say an oval bore in our engine is potentially a major problem for an engine re conditioner as the liners are incredibly thin 2mm and are built into the block with the ali block is formed( the aluminium block is cast around the grey cast iron liners). Not much meat there! in all honesty all I can imagine being done is a measure up and a light hone, no serious machining can take place with that little metal there. If its oval its f**ked, so its a question of buyer beware.
norman
When oil control rings on pistons don't do their work ANY engine ends up with oval bores.........unless it's a Wankel, s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
The engine pictured above is NOT suitable to go into a UK/EU spec Roadster (or some J-Spec's that had the oil cooler) - it is missing the water return connection from the oil cooler/warmer in the head which should be present just below the inlet port closest to the flywheel.
You can blank the other connection off in the pipe that comes out of the thermostat housing, but in the winter you will find your oil takes a VERY long time to warm up - even with the turbo, I find mine takes ~5 miles before it even starts to register on my oil temp. guage.
I'll think you will find the spelling is GAUGE s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Well all i can say is my MRS will be in the hands of the fitters now at the breakers in yorkshire. They are putting a MR2 2006 23000 miles engine in it.
They said it will work fine.
Sounds good to me, you will have to let us know if you would recommend them after putting some miles o. the new engine.
I will do a report on it all with pics thanks again
Quote from: "rabscott2003"Well all i can say is my MRS will be in the hands of the fitters now at the breakers in yorkshire. They are putting a MR2 2006 23000 miles engine in it.
They said it will work fine.
Hey, who is doing the engine swap for you?
Is it Dewsbury auto salvage by any chance?
Yes its Dewsbury Autosalvage.
they did my engine too - did a good job :-) :-) :-) i got a 2006 @18000 miles for £900
now mine runs as smooth as ever :-) :-) :-)
Hi, am new here to the forum but very interested in your thread. Could you tell me how your engine swap has gone and if you have had any problems?
My car needed an engine swap and have used the same company. Just wanted to know about your experience with them?
Many thanks.
Quote from: "MTandMC"Hi, am new here to the forum but very interested in your thread. Could you tell me how your engine swap has gone and if you have had any problems?
My car needed an engine swap and have used the same company. Just wanted to know about your experience with them?
Many thanks.
Sounds like he's having problems from the sound of his other post. l viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31502&p=383729#p383729 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31502&p=383729#p383729) l
Yes you can see that I'm not that happy at the moment. Had the engine swap... then had gearbox trouble as it would find 1st, 3rd and 5th after only 100miles of driving back from Dewsbury (gearbox fine before swap).
Then local garage tried to fix and the gear cables snapped as they were kinked (they think they got kinked when the engine was fitted). Dewsbury sent more cables and local garage then fitted to which seems ok.
I was assuming the engine would be complete with all anxilleries etc... but apparently not, so the battery is losing it's charge still as was before the swap.
Dewsbury did send a replacement though which I have just recieved but no idea what condition this is.
So they are trying for sure. Just think they need to work on their people skills and supply their customers with the right paperwork etc... as it all sounded a little 'back street' to me. We asked for some form of paperwork just to state that a newer engine had been fitted but they said they couldn't do it otherwise they would have to charge us VAT? I only wanted a piece of hand written paper stating a newer 2006 engine had been fitted with low miles so that when we came to selling it the new owner would know the mileometer wasn't true and 50'000 miles less than it was showing!
So I am happy to get the car back for sure but not that it has taked over 4 weeks to do!
you don;t pay vat
you pay a price
they pay teh vat to teh treasury
Quote from: "MTandMC"We asked for some form of paperwork just to state that a newer engine had been fitted but they said they couldn't do it otherwise they would have to charge us VAT?
In other words - you paid cash in hand and they're not going to tell HMRC about it and, thus, nobody pays tax.. If there's a paper trail and they're ever audited they're in serious bother, so naturally they'll refuse to create a paper trail..
I wonder if HMRC are reading? s;) ;) s;)
might be worth reminding them of teh fact
seeing as how any offence is comitted by them not you
reporting them if they don;t play ball costs you nothing
Sounds like they need to work on their basic mechanical skills too if they managed to munch the gear shift cables! (in addition to their customer service skills and dubious book keeping!).
Thanks guys I realise they dont want a paper trail but it all seems just 'hooky' to me. Not even supplying a hand written note for the customer just to say they fitted a newer engine is really bad customer service. And dont get me started on the staff who kept fobbing us off and telling us to ring this and that number and speak to a different person each time.
And still got one of the same problems of the battery losing its charge!