Ok so have browsed here and the interweb and found that apparently, my 2 needs "Toyota Electro-Hydraulic power steering fluid (part no 08886-01206)" power steering fluid.
Quick question; will this stuff do any harm to my car if I cant get the above for a short period of time?
m http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... zone=PLPz1 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_270369_categoryId_255219_langId_-1?cm_sp=Intelligent_Offer-_-Product_List_Zone_1-_-Blank&iozone=PLPz1) m
Thanks
Given the cost of a new pump, I would not risk it. Far cheaper to hire a car for a day or two imo.
Chris
Mod action, moved to maintenance forum.
Chris
Others on here have driven without power assistance for a while.
I have to say that it's difficult not to agree with Chris, but I personally doubt that using the Halfords universal fluid would damage the system. The main problem is that all of the car manufacturers try to keep a monopoly on the spec of their particular fluid when in reality it probably all comes from the same jar!
Historically, there are reported issues of seal failure, albeit over very very high milages, if you use the wrong fluid. I think the difference is between organic and synthetic but I may be wrong.
Same problem with SMT hydraulic fluid.
Personally, I would use it and have on the Saab but never had to on the 2.
If it's just a top up then I'd use it for sure. I wonder what your local indy woud use?
QuoteI wonder what your local indy woud use?
An l in would! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I meant what wood
Personally, I wouldn't risk it....!
What would I do?
Well, if you need to top up your fluid (rather than a full system refill?), then its simple:
1) Check to see why the level is low in the first place: the level shouldn't really fall at all, so you could have a leak..?
2) Buy the Toyota stuff, top up your system.... s:D :D s:D ]
3) Buy some 250ml plastic bottles off Ebay.
4) Decant EHPS fluid into said bottles, and sell to MR2ROC members for a nominal fee...? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
*whimpers*
I have a leak, the pipes have rusted and d1ick2ski is kindly sending me another set. I was driving the car for around a week before christmas, with grinding sounds from the steering wheel getting progressively worse and when I saw the oil on my drive I put two and two together. I parked it up and havent driven it for two weeks until I could get it into a garage to confirm the pipes need replacing and sort out getting them replaced, which I did yesterday. I was concerned that continuing to run to car on NO fluid would do more damage to the extremely expensive pump than running it around with this fluid in it. There was fluid still in the resevoir but below the minimum marker so I topped it up with this stuff from Halfrauds. Since topping it up, the grinding has stopped.
I have expressed to my other half my concern about using the correct fluid, but he has insisted that it will be fine to drive to work and back (5 miles each way) for a week until I get the new pipes, and I intend to get the "proper" stuff from Toyota and drain and re-fill with that.
I'm now at work, with my car in the car park. Not sure whether to continue driving it.... s:? :? s:? s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
Ps. I noticed when starting it after picking up from the garage yesterday a "P/S" light flash up briefly on my dashboard. First time I've seen this in the 4-5 times I have started the car since topping the fluid up.
I'm really worried now... :-/
I would suggest your other half is right, as long as its short-term (very!).... s:? :? s:?
Having seen inside, it is likely that running the pump empty WILL destroy it within a minute, as the pump vane assembly relies on the fluid for lubrication and cooling.
After you get the replacement pipes, fill with the Toyota stuff: but now it'll be necessary to actually drain the WHOLE system, as you have mixed the types of fluid...?
I'm not saying 100% that the Halfords stuff WILL cause problems, but as you now have a mixture, it possible / likely that they'll combine with detrimental effects, long term....
Maybe not..but its not worth the risk, tbh...? s:? :? s:?
Just out of interest, how stiff IS the steering in "fail" mode..? Is it like a normal pre-PS car, or is it silly hard..? ( s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )
If its not too bad, then if you unplug the connectors from the motor then it'll just be you and the rack: no electronic / unpredicatable interferences..
I suppose, short-term, you COULD drain the system, leaving fluid in the rack, and join the 2 pipes out of the rack together, basically bypassing the the pump, but retaining the rack lubrication...?
That way, you wont be fighting the piston in the PS mechanism, as you will be if you just unplug everything and leave the pump inline.....?
I havent actually experienced any change in the feel of the steering at all, so I'm assuming I stopped driving it before it got to the point where it was being affected. It has felt just as light as normal with no difficulties in turning. I was getting the grinding noise only when I turned the wheel to the extremities but not when only slight steering.
Since topping it up, its driven around 30 miles, so I might just park it up for the rest of the week now and wait til I can get it fixed. I knew I would have to completely drain and re-fill due to the mixing of the fluids so thats fine. I'm assuming it'll have to be drained to replace the pipes anyway, so I'm going to buy the toyota fluid and ask the garage to fill it back up with that when he does the pipes.
Quote from: "Dyn-Evo"After you get the replacement pipes, fill with the Toyota stuff: but now it'll be necessary to actually drain the WHOLE system, as you have mixed the types of fluid...?
sounds like good practice to me, to use all fresh fluid anyway
Quote from: "Dyn-Evo"1) Check to see why the level is low in the first place: the level shouldn't really fall at all, so you could have a leak..?
2) Buy the Toyota stuff, top up your system.... s:D :D s:D ]
3) Buy some 250ml plastic bottles off Ebay.
4) Decant EHPS fluid into said bottles, and sell to MR2ROC members for a nominal fee...? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
i like your entrepreneurial spirit s:) :) s:)
Ok just rang my local Toyota garage and he seemed vague about how sensitive the system is and that they have "Dextron 3" on the shelf, and that they "just use that".
Getting a bit confused now. Is this the right stuff and if not, where on earth can I get the proper stuff from???
We have had many in the US that have topped off our fluid with non EHPS fluid only to have the PS pump fail in due time.
I wouldn't have risked it and I too have suffered as a result of topping off my fluid. Right after topping off the fluid my PS became noisy and then it failed after a months time.
s:? :? s:?
I've often wondered about the various "Liquid Gold" oils that Toyota use / specify....!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
(Mk1 4AGZE supercharger oil springs immediately to mind..!)
Dexron 3 is a General Motors GEARBOX oil, ffs...!? s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
It is somewhat thinner than Dexron 1+2, but is for gearboxes, nonetheless....
So..Toyota themselves say they use "Dexron 3" in the EHPS application, do they...?
Thats either B/S.....or there's a rip-off going on here..... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "Dyn-Evo":?
I've often wondered about the various "Liquid Gold" oils that Toyota use / specify....!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
(Mk1 4AGZE supercharger oil springs immediately to mind..!)
Dexron 3 is a General Motors GEARBOX oil, ffs...!? s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
It is somewhat thinner than Dexron 1+2, but is for gearboxes, nonetheless....
So..Toyota themselves say they use "Dexron 3" in the EHPS application, do they...?
Thats either B/S.....or there's a rip-off going on here..... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I do not know and wouldn't presume to know how your dealers operate, however in the US many of the dealers have ruined others peoples PS pumps by using regular PS fluid.
I was also advised by the dealer to use regular PS fluid and one other dealer asked me to use ATF fluid which is the Dexron which is incorrect.
After many discussions on Spyderchat this misinformation came to light when someone pointed out that the newer Toyota cars have Electric Steering and use the Dexron.
Unknown to the that person there is a difference between an electric steering unit and a hydro-electric pump which our cars are fitted with.
There have been some that have substituted a different kind of EPS fluid for the SMT transmission only to have the 0 rings swell and cause a ruined pump.
Your best and safest bet is to pay the price for the expensive EHPS fluid. Maybe it's a re-badged fluid that you can get cheaper somewhere else, I don't know but what I do know is that it's certainly not regular PS fluid.
Quote from: "Dev"Your best and safest bet is to pay the price for the expensive EHPS fluid. Maybe it's a re-badged fluid that you can get cheaper somewhere else, I don't know but what I do know is that it's certainly not regular PS fluid.
+1 to that!
Quote from: "catkins"Getting a bit confused now. Is this the right stuff and if not, where on earth can I get the proper stuff from???
Give that part number in your 1st post to MrT and they surely should get it for you... I can't believe they'd suggest they would use something different though, that can't be good!
N.B. in Jul 2010 it cost me £29.75 for 1 litre so I'd assume it's quite a bit over the £30 mark now as it was about £24 in 2009!
Quote from: "catkins"Ok just rang my local Toyota garage and he seemed vague about how sensitive the system is and that they have "Dextron 3" on the shelf, and that they "just use that
I really do hate to say 'I told you so'. Your other half was right. I think we need a response from 'oilman' if he still posts.
Ok guys, thanks so much for all the replies, I really appreciate your help.
After topping up the fluid on Sunday, I drove it around 15 miles to charge up the battery as I needed to go pick something up and didnt have any other transport. My other half drove it a further 20 miles on the Monday morning, before dropping it at the garage and then I picked it up and drove it the 500 yards home.
Since then, I have not driven it on recommendation! The idiot in the Toyota garage said they have this stuff on the shelf at £7 a litre. I just rang again and gave them the part number... he has to order it in, and its £31 + vat. Honestly, I worry for people who just trust these plonkers if they cant even give the right advice. I even said to him "I understand the systems are sensitive on the MR2's, and have been told that I need specific fluid" to which he answered "Oh, well, we just use the Dexron." *annoyed sigh*
So, pipes are here.. just need to check all ok and cover them in something to prevent rust and then get it in the garage next week and get it filled with the PROPER stuff.
Panic (almost) over. Hopefully that 30 odd miles wont have damaged the pump?
Quote from: "catkins"I just rang again and gave them the part number... he has to order it in, and its £31 + vat.
......................
I even said to him "I understand the systems are sensitive on the MR2's, and have been told that I need specific fluid" to which he answered "Oh, well, we just use the Dexron." *annoyed sigh*
s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Well that just about ensures that I won't ever trust dealer info again.....!!
He cannot be serious (man! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ): there must be a misunderstanding...?
Unless he's just admitted to you that all the EHPS fluid they have topped up during services was filled using the WRONG stuff...
..or that he has not been trained properly...? s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Bad news, though, either way...? s:? :? s:?
This kind of incompetence probably accounts for a number of failed pumps.
Chris
Dont know, but I will certainly be raising it with however serves me on Saturday when I collect the real stuff. Although I've avoided it, I still feel annoyed that despite me actually saying that I understood I needed specific stuff, he still just said "oh, we just use that" and I feel annoyed for other people who may have and will trust that.
I've checked all our databases and it seems that your cars specifically need the Toyota stuff. They don't say why it needs the Toyota stuff, but I can't recommned anything else.
Cheers
Tim
thanks for checking Tim. My wallet will be £30 lighter this weekend lol
Apparently you can use Peugeot gold EHPSF and it only costs £8 instead of £30. At least that's what MK2 MR2 owners think. They use the same EH fluid as the MK3. An extra £22 for peace if mind isn't much though.
Bought it today. The parts guy, very smartly dressed in shirt and tie, commented "ooh, that's proper special stuff... its got Japanese writing on an' everything" and when I tried to start a discussion about it needing the specific fluid otherwise it could kill a £1000+ pump, he replied "Oh not sure, the guys in the workshop know more about it than me". This left me absolutely tamping so I just grabbed the stuff and walked out. This shirt and tie guy is who customers speak to when they ring, not the workshop guys, so he should know as much as them!! How can he give correct advice?! He had no idea about the fluid. I'm still seething now.....
Alot of information floating around the internet is absolutely brill, but some is "received knowledge" and some of that is, for the want of a better word, cobblers.
If anyone would like to try ordinary ps fluid, Im happy to donate a pump and rack should this prove or disprove the case.
Quote from: "dick2ski"Alot of information floating around the internet is absolutely brill, but some is "received knowledge" and some of that is, for the want of a better word, cobblers.
If anyone would like to try ordinary ps fluid, I'm happy to donate a pump and rack should this prove or disprove the case.
If only it where that simple s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
You can get a hydraulic fluid incompatibility that will affect pumps / seals from one supplier but be perfectly ok with pumps / seals from another. I have seen this in an investigation on brake master cylinders. Dual / multiple sourcing and batch variation are normal, but it is one of the bigger causes of odd or unexpected behaviour in components.
Chris
A conundrum within a puzzle! Its a bit like the tyre thing, lots of strong opinions, but little hard facts or way of obtaining them. Really frustrating.
Im sure Toyota and the like have the knowledge, but its not in their interests to release the info.
You'd think Mr T would just say "the only thing the system is safely compatible with is our stuff.... yes, at 30 quid a litre". Job done, lots of money made for them.
Quote from: "dick2ski"Alot of information floating around the internet is absolutely brill, but some is "received knowledge" and some of that is, for the want of a better word, cobblers.
If anyone would like to try ordinary ps fluid, I'm happy to donate a pump and rack should this prove or disprove the case.
I think a much better thing to do is a chemical analysis of the fluid rather then testing one pump without the proper equipment.
I am also sure that Toyota would not have advised this specific fluid if it was not absolutely necessary.
I think one of the big reasons why there is not a whole lot of information on the PS fluid is mainly because it's a lifetime fill.
Quote from: "Dev"because it's a lifetime fill.
True, but 'lifetime' in Toyota terms is probably seven years.
Quote from: "mrzwei"Quote from: "Dev"because it's a lifetime fill.
True, but 'lifetime' in Toyota terms is probably seven years.
I did some study into these so called lifetime fills and the logic seems to be that the fluid may not be what causes the eventual mechanical failure. BMW also has lifetime fills for a good amount of their components and you will not find a drain plug in some cases. The question is will changing the fluid help and I think that is a tough one to answer since chemistry has taken leaps forward that the old arguments probably don't hold up as well as actual trends.
In my country people believe what mechanics tell them which is probably not a good idea for things of this nature because they are not engineers or enthusiasts.
And when we talk about speculation, I think it's somewhat foolish to think there is some kind of conspiracy from Toyota that they would want you to spend a fortune on PS fluid for a car that was not massively produced. Just my opinion and own personal experience.
I hear what you say Dev and agree.
I think what I meant was that 'If it lasts 7 years then that's ok.'
'thing is now that a lot of the cars are older than that and things start to go wrong around the edges (pipes leaking, seals deteriorating, pumps breaking etc.) so the need for fluid is likely to increase. A fluid less than 30 quid a litre would be a help. I wouldn't expect Toyota to do anything and personally would use a generic fluid. I would advise others to follow the advice of the Opie oils expert.
Quote from: "mrzwei"I hear what you say Dev and agree.
I think what I meant was that 'If it lasts 7 years then that's ok.'
'thing is now that a lot of the cars are older than that and things start to go wrong around the edges (pipes leaking, seals deteriorating, pumps breaking etc.) so the need for fluid is likely to increase. A fluid less than 30 quid a litre would be a help. I wouldn't expect Toyota to do anything and personally would use a generic fluid. I would advise others to follow the advice of the Opie oils expert.
No problems. Also consider that even if you change the fluid there is no guarantee that's going to give it new life.
When my PS pump failed I looped the lines and now it feels like a manual rack. Much better then the PS pump.
Quote from: "Dev"When my PS pump failed I looped the lines and now it feels like a manual rack. Much better then the PS pump.
Bloody American English s:lol: :lol: s:lol: When you say you 'looped the lines', does that mean you just disconnected them from the pump or what?
Some performance guys on here may want to try that
Quote from: "Dev"Quote from: "mrzwei"Quote from: "Dev"because it's a lifetime fill.
True, but 'lifetime' in Toyota terms is probably seven years.
I did some study into these so called lifetime fills and the logic seems to be that the fluid may not be what causes the eventual mechanical failure. BMW also has lifetime fills for a good amount of their components and you will not find a drain plug in some cases. The question is will changing the fluid help and I think that is a tough one to answer since chemistry has taken leaps forward that the old arguments probably don't hold up as well as actual trends.
In my country people believe what mechanics tell them which is probably not a good idea for things of this nature because they are not engineers or enthusiasts.
And when we talk about speculation, I think it's somewhat foolish to think there is some kind of conspiracy from Toyota that they would want you to spend a fortune on PS fluid for a car that was not massively produced. Just my opinion and own personal experience.
There is no such thing as a lifetime oil. All oil breaks down over time and when it's a few years old, it will not be protecting like it did when it came out of the factory. Manufacturers do not care about that, in fact it's a good thing as far as they are concerned as they don't want cars/parts to last forever. Manufacturers want their cars to get through the warranty period with as few problems as possible, so they tend to factory fill (at least the transmission and PAS etc) with decent oils and say they are lifetime fills. What they really mean is that while under warranty, the oils will be fine, but after the warranty is up they don't really care. Have a look at the brands that offer really long warranties (I think Hyundai and Kia have something like 5-7 years). They don't list oils as lifetime oils.
Oils may last a lot longer than they used to, but problems are showing up. A lot of German diesels are having sludge build ups when they are about 5-7 years old and on long life service schedules. The gearboxes aren't lasting like they used to either. I mention German cars as they have been using longlife/lifetime oils for longer than other brands.
Cheers
Tim
I've only bought one litre of the stuff from Toyota. Considering I topped up with the Halfrauds stuff, travelled 30 miles and its since been parked up, will this be enough to flush and refill the system? I can't find any details about the capacity of the system but when I topped it up I put barely 300ml in before it was back to the "max" marker.