Now that I'm in my 5th year of Roadster ownership, it finally looks like I will be scratching an itch and answering a question I've had for a long time....
What happens if I take one of these:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/LoweredSide.jpg)
And one of these:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo1.jpg)
And attack it with little more than ambition and determination!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
The kit is a Hass II kit (with a few extras) purchased from SimonC_Here, and dragged up to sunny Blackpool by Wabbitkilla and FGRob (Massive thank you to you both! s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown: ).
I've started this thread as I have never attempted anything this big before so I will really appreciate help and advice as I go along. Also I'm sure I will have plenty of queries (wanting to keep them all together as they may help others in the future!) that the collective experience on here will no doubt have answers to! s8) 8) s8)
As a starter, here is the progress so far:
Special Delivery:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Delivery1.jpg)
Dining Room:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Delivery2.jpg)
Off comes the bumper:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal5.jpg)
Off comes the manifold:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal3.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal4.jpg)
Exhaust should be off tomorrow, followed by draining the oil and giving it a right good clean in there before throwing in all the fun bits! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Oh and here's the kitchen at the minute:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/KitchenBumper1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/KitchenBumper2.jpg)
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: s:flame: :flame: s:flame:
s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown: go on lad! s:P :P s:P
Go for it s:D :D s:D
Nice to see you keeping the bits in the house and not making a mess in the garage s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
[MOD]Moved to performance [/MOD]
Yay ... looking like fun s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I am looking forward to seeing this build Paul. You've been twittering on about boosting your car since i've known you!
Good luck s:) :) s:)
note to self, I must keep mine asis and not get ideas from this thread!!
Go for it Paul s8) 8) s8) Its a fun thing to do.
Not clear from your pics but if you haven't yet done it, take the rear crash beam off as soon as you've dumped the cat. 5 minutes on that makes access to the install so much easier.
Yay s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: I can tell you that when you add the two together you get a whole lot of fun!
it sure be fun! oh and are you going to replace the manifold and down pipe gasket?
Have fun with that mate! s;) ;) s;) Be sure to invest in some ear plugs for that exhaust. However I am investigating something that may help you on that front. ( will keep you posted)
A well set up Hass kit is brilliant fun and you will enjoy it immensely. s:) :) s:) I had one set up for around 200 horses last year and that was probably the best all round turbo that I've driven.
About time Paul :-) :-) :-) Will be interesting to watch this build, you're going to love it s:-D :-D s:-D
Paul,let me know if that TTE exhaust becomes available? s:D :D s:D
It was only a matter of time Paul s;) ;) s;) come join us s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Look forward to seeing it in the flesh s:) :) s:)
Have you got the other bits needed? I didn't see mention if;
Piggyback ECU
intercooler
uprated clutch
* depending on output *
injectors
boost controller
Still looks like fun!
David
Thanks guys! Quite daunting yesterday when I said "Shall we go take the car apart?" s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
Still, I've only really removed the stuff I'd already put on anyway so if anything I've just put myself back 12 months! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Further progress shall be made today I hope!!
Quote from: "PeteT"note to self, I must keep mine asis and not get ideas from this thread!!
Don't be silly, you know some extra horses will be fun! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Quote from: "spit"take the rear crash beam off as soon as you've dumped the cat. 5 minutes on that makes access to the install so much easier.
Crash bar came off shortly after the pics but K had run off with my camera! So you'll all jut have to use your imagination! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "loadswine"Be sure to invest in some ear plugs for that exhaust. However I am investigating something that may help you on that front. ( will keep you posted)
That was my concern when the kit turned up!! Exhaust didn't look quite so big on the pics! Anything that can be done (short of fabbing up a new one) will be welcomed!! Thanks!
Quote from: "life of bryan"Paul,let me know if that TTE exhaust becomes available? s:D :D s:D
Someone who shall remain nameless has pestered me for it before I'd even put the car in the garage to start work! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I've also had interest from someone else! Vultures, the lot of you!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Although how do you fancy a rear bumper swap? My new exhaust won't fit the cut outs and I don't fancy butchering it up!!
Quote from: "AmeR"Although how do you fancy a rear bumper swap? My new exhaust won't fit the cut outs and I don't fancy butchering it up!!
I'll swap you for a proper stock one. s:D :D s:D [/vultch]
Go for it buddy, mind you, you must be really keen all that stuff has barely settled in the dining room and your fitting it already s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
cant wait to see (feel) the results.
OK, so progress today wasn't as epically good as I was hoping...
Exhaust came out:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal6.jpg)
Shortly followed by the battery, rest of the air intake:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal7.jpg)
Lots of space in there now:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal10.jpg)
And I really hope that I can remember where all these go... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal11.jpg)
But the progress was slowed by trying to work out where my air filter should go. I had originally wanted to put it here behind the battery:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal12.jpg)
Or here below the passenger side rear light:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal13.jpg)
This made my head hurt:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal14.jpg)
So I'm sat inside chowing down trying to think. Any advice or experience here would help as I'm torn between the placement options:
1. Below the light would keep it out of the way and potentially cleaner (would probably remove the over the arch tube as FGRob has recently done if I went with this option) but I'd need to take the bumper off each time that I wanted to check it properly or replace at any time.
2. Behind the battery (with battery in original place) was my original choice but seems to be a lot of stuff down there. Now I know that the PPE (?) goes behind there with the battery in place so it is possible, but I don't want my Apexi cramed in and maybe banging off anything!!
3. Where the battery currently sits and resiting the battery to down near the cross member
To lighten the mood, and for those concerned that I am taking over the house with car bits will be glad to know that I have shifted my rear bumper from the kitchen.... and replaced it with my exhaust!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/KitchenExhaust1.jpg)
Here's how I did mine, may give you some inspiration s:) :) s:)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff299/yingmcding/IMAG0456.jpg)
Sent from my finger using Jedi magic
With the Hass air intake, I found it best to use an air filter assembly that I could duct air feed from where I wanted. A fully open filter like the Apexi will probably need a fair bit of pipework to feed back from your chosen location to the turbo intake. With what you have, I think I'd opt for down inside the wheel arch liner, then pipe it back to the turbo from there.
Seeing Steve post his pic, shows exactly what I was on about.
i'm really looking forward to seeing the results to this Paul! not to put any pressure on your success with the turbo, but you could very well make up my mind about getting one s:D :D s:D (and FYI your tyres sailed through the MOT today cheers s:) :) s:) [/offtopic] )
I think I am leaning more towards below the light. Would make it simpler for plumbing in etc. Had in my head that there was more room in the bay than there is... No idea why!? :s s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Off Topic: Paul, they're your tyres now mate, but great news on the pass!! Thanks for not putting pressure on my "build" s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I think if this isn't successful I may well just cry! s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Quote from: "stargazer30"Have you got the other bits needed? I didn't see mention if;
Piggyback ECU
intercooler
uprated clutch
* depending on output *
injectors
boost controller
Still looks like fun!
David
Just seen your post, apologies. Yes I have everything I need (in theory!):
Turbo
Manifold
Injectors
Filter
Piggyback
Boost controller
Exhaust
Oil sump
Chargecooler kit (incl. rad)
And a car to shove it on... But I already had that! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
As for clutch, sadly pennies are scarce at the mo so will be a later addition. Not ideal I know but will be hoping to get one in a soon as possible. Come on lotto....
Quote from: "AmeR"I think I am leaning more towards below the light. Would make it simpler for plumbing in etc. Had in my head that there was more room in the bay than there is... No idea why!? :s s:lol: :lol: s:lol: :
Paul. That's where mine is and you only have to loosen the rear light to access it.
Mike
Paul,
It will be a dam sight easier to install the clutch now while you have everything apart than do it later. I very much doubt stock clutch will be up for the job. Id hate to see you put it all back together and not be able to drive it.
LUK clutches are as cheap as chips mate.
What kind of umph can a LUK take? I was hoping to fit a 6 speed box at the same time as the clutch too you see... s:( :( s:(
Given the back a right good clean in all the bits you don't usually see:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal15.jpg)
And finally, all of this for a simple oil change:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal16.jpg)
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Around 250bhp if i remember correctly. Im sure they said they could do something more specialist if required to take more power but it would obviously cost more.
I wanted to stick with my stock clutch due to cost but Matt said it will slip due to the torque.
My LUK is handling 240 without any drama. Andrew's old Apexi turbo was LUK equipped and was running 270 and that was fine when I last went out in it. My old Hass was fine with the LUK too, but that slipped quite noticeably on stock and that was with base wastegate level boost. I have to say it is easier to get to now, with it all apart, than do it all later. It was actually the first thing I did with the Top Secret install.
Hmm... Prices and places to buy from?
Also how easy is it as I've never done one before?! s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
For reasons that I'd prefer not to get into here, the £130 uprated LUK 'special' is unfortunately no longer being supplied s:( :( s:( Sorry Paul.
The only other advice I can offer on clutches would be to avoid the Exedy organic like the plague. It handles the power without any drama but compared to others out there at £250-&-upward its not very refined.
+1 on the filter location. It'll stay much cleaner there. C2 is reversed into the offside space but you have the advantage of piped air on the nearside. I'm running a recirc BOV which gives the bonus of blowing newly-trapped crud out of the filter at every lift off s:D :D s:D Sounds good'n'sucky-blowey too.
Quote from: "spit"For reasons that I'd prefer not to get into here, the £130 uprated LUK 'special' is unfortunately no longer being supplied s:( :( s:( Sorry Paul.
The only other advice I can offer on clutches would be to avoid the Exedy organic like the plague. It handles the power without any drama but compared to others out there at £250-&-upward its not very refined.
+1 on the filter location. It'll stay much cleaner there. C2 is reversed into the offside space but you have the advantage of piped air on the nearside. I'm running a recirc BOV which gives the bonus of blowing newly-trapped crud out of the filter at every lift off s:D :D s:D Sounds good'n'sucky-blowey too.
Do you mean not available in general? Bugger!! There are 2 on eBay but I can only presume that at £58 & £74, they aren't the uprated one, and more likely a stock replacement!! s:( :( s:(
Any mores suggestions? Guessing the car will be staying in bits for a while longer if I am going to do this too!! You lot don't half cost me some money!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Would a 2zz clutch work? flywheels are different but clutches are interchangeable Afaik,may give you some options
Quote from: "AmeR"Do you mean not available in general? Bugger!! There are 2 on eBay but I can only presume that at £58 & £74, they aren't the uprated one, and more likely a stock replacement!! s:( :( s:(
Yep, those are stock replacements. And very good they are too (Ally had one installed a few weeks back. Its schmooth!). The uprated design was developed by Charlesworth and supplied at cost to support ROC members running higher power. Its not available out there in the real world.
Well the oil is basically out of the car and tomorrow (today!?) I'm hoping to get the new oil pan on so can anyone advise:
1. What I need for bonding it back on?
2. Where I can get it? (Halfords is right around the corner or I'll give Toyota a ring if necessary!)
3. What oil would be best to use? The oil that I have drained is as clear as the day it went in
4. Would a better oil filter be recommended?
Sorry for the constant stream of queries but I'm hoping to only do this once (I know, Nathan, I know, get the clutch done now s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ). Thanks again all
Quote from: "AmeR"Well the oil is basically out of the car and tomorrow (today!?) I'm hoping to get the new oil pan on so can anyone advise:
1. What I need for bonding it back on?
2. Where I can get it? (Halfords is right around the corner or I'll give Toyota a ring if necessary!)
3. What oil would be best to use? The oil that I have drained is as clear as the day it went in
4. Would a better oil filter be recommended?
Sorry for the constant stream of queries but I'm hoping to only do this once (I know, Nathan, I know, get the clutch done now s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ). Thanks again all
1. RTV sealant
2. Halfords do it in tubes ,black and red box iirc
3. I used 10w60 fully synth in my turbo , either mobil 1 or Halfords track day
4. Stock Toyota filter is all you need,it's the best one.
I used the Wurth RTV this time. You can get it from motor factors and its easier to apply as it comes in a can with dispenser tube. Works well if you can get it.
Top notch fully synth is the way to go for sure.
Quote from: "spit"For reasons that I'd prefer not to get into here, the £130 uprated LUK 'special' is unfortunately no longer being supplied s:( :( s:( Sorry Paul.
Good job I mentioned then clutch then huh, as others have said no way the stock one will hold on a hass kit. As you break 190lbs/ft it will go.
Spit, Are you sure on the Luk, I just (literally 2 to 3 weeks back) got one of these via MattPerformance for my turbo.
Oh as a watchout my new Luk clutch slipped as soon as we road tested the car. Within about 10 mins of driving it was fine and has been since. I just put it down to high spots with it being new.
Paul. If you need any photos of my install to help you on your way then i'm happy to oblige.
Mike
Ok, I've been doing some head scratching and thinking (my head seriously hurts!!) and I'm torn between the following:
1. Put back together and have just a clutch banged in shortly after
2. Buy a brand new clutch now (looking at the helix as it seems to have good feedback!) and install it myself as the car can't go anywhere! Is this difficult?
3. Put it back together, and get a six speed box with uprated clutch in from Matt shortly after
Option 2 would obviously retain the 5 speed box. Not sure if a 6 is completely necessary, even with the turbo...
Obviously, my budget is tiny and I'm trying to do everything I can to ensure my car spends more time this year being driven. Any comments welcome as my head seems to be turning to mush!!
Ouch, think I need to lie down. s:( :( s:(
Considering budget I'd recommend replacing the cluth but keep the 5 speed ... you can always replace it later to a 6 speed if you feel it will be better. This obviously means the car is enjoyable and you won't have to worry about the clutch letting go. If you don't do the clutch then it's back to stripping down and fixing WHEN it does eventually go.
From my experience with turbo-added cars, the oem clutch is not up to the job especially if it's got miles on it.
Clutch replacement is inevitable really.
Personally, I prefer a 6 speed box with a turbo. Remember it will actually accelerate in 6th with that much grunt. s:) :) s:) Obviously a 5 will work fine, but its more relaxed cruising with a 6. Maybe a plan is install, run at base wastegate boost for a while to make sure all is well, plus you get used to it a bit too, which is actually sensible really. s:) :) s:) Then get a 6 speed and uprated clutch popped in and turn up boost as required.
A tiny budget and a full fat turbo install aren't terribly compatible, but that kit was originally on Mark's car and was pretty well sorted and easily pushing out 270 horses on full boost ( 10 psi) I loved the Hass on 6 psi!
Spend the money on the exhaust first, or get some earplugs! Clue with the exhaust isn't the ultimate volume, but the resonance ( drone). There may be a solution to reduce that, but I am still working on that with my own setup. If it works, I shall share details for others. s;) ;) s;)
Got to agree with Nigel on the exhaust front, given the age of it and the the way HASS exhausts tend to go it's going to need replacing. OK I don't like the HASS exhaust either s:lol: :lol: s:lol: but if you get a decent stainless one fabbed up it really is worth its weight in gold. Have a word with Steve-m-UK about the one he had fabricated, he got v-band adaptor for the turbo which made things much easier. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Like Nigel says, using the existing clutch allows you to sort and settle any issues that might appear, save for a 6 speed (I paid £350 for my replacement from GTS Chris so they need not be overly expensive). You could go for "Peter Perfect" rear tyres like Ste to modify the gearing of the 5 speed and cut the drone out on the motorways.
The v-band made things much easier, the exhaust can be removed in 5 mins now s:) :) s:) another thing to look at is the Hass manifold , if it is well braced then you should be ok but mine cracked badly and in the end got binned in favour of a cast che one, this is a much better piece of kit and would probably survive nuclear war its that tough. If you have an exhaust made be sure that Hass manifold is in good shape beforehand as changing afterward is expensive s:( :( s:(
Sent from my finger using Jedi magic
Well the exhaust isn't the standard HASS one I'm led to believe - It's one that a member had fab'd up a while ago with a sports CAT in there. According to Simon, it's not that bad but I'll have to see once its on the car. With me having it, it'll likely be going on the car for now and a replacement will be sourced / fab'd if I can't live with it! s:) :) s:)
As for the clutch, there seems to be pros and cons to each choice. I'm tempted to leave it as is and have a pro change it shortly after to save me screwing anything up! My reckoning behind a 6 speed is if the standard box is out, why not shove one in!? s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Best get back to selling some stuff... Anyone want to buy an arm or a leg!? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Sounds like you have a plan, from what I saw of the exhaust if it's not Hass it's a very close replica.
I say put it all together and see how it goes, just put some money aside regularly for the clutch & gearbox.
At least then you can see if everything works ok and deal with anything that's not happy after you've put a few miles on it.
Well here's a couple of pics of the exhaust. Was told it was a custom fab but maybe that's wrong!?
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Exhaust1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Exhaust2.jpg)
So far the plan is:
1. Plough on, get the kit fitted and make sure that it's working first
2. Get the clutch replaced for an uprated as soon as possible after that (and hopefully a 6 speeder!)
3. New exhaust at some point down the line as it seems to be very overly compliacted!? s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
Thanks for the help guys, it's hugely appreciated!!
Oil pan is off now, and I'll upload some pics shortly of it compared to its replacement and then that will be the first piece of my Turbo puzzle actually on the car! Progress at last! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Oh and the bracing for one side of the turbo. Had some extra bits put down the side to re-enforce it.
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/TurboBrace1.jpg)
There's another but I haven't taken a pic of it yet! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Make sure those braces go on as they are vital s:) :) s:) it looks like a Hass system to me but mine had one of the pipes lobbed off.
Sent from my finger using Jedi magic
That was us Steve s:oops: :oops: s:oops: . We chopped out a full circuit of the trombone as it was b0lloxed!
Good progress Paul s8) 8) s8)
+1 on that bracing. As the engine rocks you want to keep that whole engine/mani/turbo assembly moving as one in all axes.
This introduces another possibility of bracing the manifold between its engine and turbo flanges to take strain off the pipework and create a triangular 'subframe' with the engine block and turbo bracing. The Hass log mani is quite chunky but its also several years old and has been through some hefty heat cycles.
The aim, really, is to divert potentially damaging torsion movement towards the piece of the system that is supposedly engineered to live with it:- the flexi on the exhaust. Now, we've seen those break away before but its way less traumatic than having a cracked manifold.
What arrangement do you have for oil feed? Is it a T from the pressure sender or a sandwich plate?
Op,
I think your making a mistake re the clutch. You do realise if that kit is putting out 200lb/ft plus your car will not be drivable right? The clutch is going to let go as soon as it comes on boost in any gear. I'm not sure but doesn't driving with a badly slipping clutch not knacker others parts of the transmission?
Did you ring the guys at Luk. The Luk clutch is peanuts and I still didn't here the reason why they are not available, given I just got one. PS the helix clutch is a very good one too, I ran one of those at 230odd bhp no worries.
Uprated LUK clutches are not being produced any more mate s:( :( s:(
Spoken to Matt recently regarding my options. LUK isn't one of them unfortunately! I'll be looking at either a second hand Helix for similar money or a brand new one for easily twice that price. Then add fitment costs.
Fitment can't really be done until the car is back together as it's not exactly drivable right now, and I'm not feeling overly confident about fitting it myself otherwise I would have bought a clutch by now. It's delayed my progress!
I've never been under any disillusion that the stock clutch would handle the power of a turbo like this. I've spent a lot of time looking at previous threads etc etc
Ste, I'll update with a few more pics shortly (Turbo, etc)
Quote from: "stargazer30"Spit, Are you sure on the Luk
Sorry missed this first time round. Yes I'm sure. You got the very last one. s:D :D s:D
Just to be clear we're talking about the made-to-order uprated design fabricated using LUK components here, not off-the-shelf LUK clutches (which are still available and feel great.....but would be a false economy for Paul's application).
Apologies for the slight drift Paul.
I'd be inclined to crack on and see how the stock clutch copes while you're taking it easy and shaking down any install issues. In any case you'll need the car together for a supply and fit option, so bide your time until a good deal on an uprated clutch comes around and you have absolute confirmation that you need one sooner rather than later. Yes your clutch may slip. Conversely, it may give you another couple of years of faultless service. Save your pennies until you know matey s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Ok, so here is a comparison of the oil pans from yesterday. The left one is now fitted to the car:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal19.jpg)
And here are a couple of pics of the Turbo:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo2.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo3.jpg)
Looking forward to working out where all they plug (think I have an idea of the 2 oil ones.... s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
I have noticed this on the middle chunky hose underneath the turbo:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo4.jpg)
Should I be concerned? Or is this something to expect?
There are 2 braces for the turbo (the earlier pic, and the one next to the hoses above). I've had a really good look all around the manifold including inside it and it seems to be pretty spot on, which is pleasing! s:D :D s:D
And here's the greddy sandwich plate, looks like a good bit of kit to me:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo5.jpg)
The exhaust was a custom job, originally made for TommyD, if that is the one that Mark had on his. ( and I think it is. ) Resonance was certainly there on mark's car, but there may be a solution which I will hopefully trial in a couple of weeks on mine.
Thanks, Nige. Yes I believe the exhaust to be one and the same.
Done some cleaning up of the turbo a little today, addressing my concern above. I'm thinking that a new hose may be in order based on this:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo6.jpg)
And the amount of gunk I cleaned off when removing it from the Turbo.
Luckily I had a spare gasket as the original had seen better days! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo8.jpg)
The bank holiday will put a stopper on that though, so I have been investigating the spaghetti of wiring that is required. I'm off to do some research on the t'interwebs and through our Reference section to see if I can answer a couple of queries before badgering you lot for some input!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
That drain pipe failed on mine, it was constantly wet with oil so I took it off and inspected it , it had hardened with the constant oil temps and age and was showing cracks where oil was seeping through. I replaced it with some flouro lined hose from pirtek and its been fine since.
Also another little tip, check those plastic hose jointers in the end of the braided water lines , I had a right mare bleeding my coolant after a change and tracked it down to one of those which had collapsed inside the braided hose blocking the turbo coolant circuit, looked perfect from the outside though.
Sent from my finger using Jedi magic
I ran a stock clutch on my car with C2 turbo kit for 12 months and the only time it slipped was in Scotland after 3 days of hard driving I tried to get the back end out round a hairpin. I only really upgraded it recently as the engine was out anyway
Great tip, Steve. I'll definitely do that! Would rather get all these little things sorted now rather than having to change stuff when it's on the car! Would rather be out driving it instead!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Thanks for that Vin - My intention is to get the kit fully on, and ease the engine in to Turbo life with a few weeks of tootling it about and "breaking it in". Then we will see how things are with the clutch etc and I will take it from there. s:D :D s:D
Hi paul look's as if youve got a real job going on, ref the clutch what sort of miles are on your (old clutch). If i can be of any help please ring (TWO HEADS ARE BETTER THAN ONE EVEN IF THERE BLOCK HEAD'S) MY mate will do the clutch for £120 plus parts .mob 07969823802.
I went with fluoro lined silicon for my oil return too. These rubber ones often need replacing on a re install. At least you know everything is taken care of this way. s:) :) s:)
Cheers guys, just on Pritek's website and there is one in Preston! Looks like it'll be a Friday afternoon jobbie though due to the inconsiderate bank holiday!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Not that it narrows it down much but the hose i used is a blue silicone outer with a red fluoro inner. The plastic couplers for the water lines are available on cheese bay for not much money, whilst your at it check to see if your kit has a restrictor for the oil flow,it will be screwed into the oil inlet and should have a about a 1mm hole for the oil,ball bearing turbo's require much less oil pressure than the engine produces and without a restrictor the turbo seals die eventually, mine did recently and it cost £700 to replace the turbo s:evil: :evil: s:evil: some Hass kits came without the restrictor so it's worth checking.
Quote from: "steve-m-uk"Also another little tip, check those plastic hose jointers in the end of the braided water lines , I had a right mare bleeding my coolant after a change and tracked it down to one of those which had collapsed inside the braided hose blocking the turbo coolant circuit, looked perfect from the outside though.
Checked these and they seem to be perfect luckily!! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Quote from: "steve-m-uk"Not that it narrows it down much but the hose i used is a blue silicone outer with a red fluoro inner. The plastic couplers for the water lines are available on cheese bay for not much money, whilst your at it check to see if your kit has a restrictor for the oil flow,it will be screwed into the oil inlet and should have a about a 1mm hole for the oil,ball bearing turbo's require much less oil pressure than the engine produces and without a restrictor the turbo seals die eventually, mine did recently and it cost £700 to replace the turbo s:evil: :evil: s:evil: some Hass kits came without the restrictor so it's worth checking.
Restrictor was in and even has a little heat wrap strapped around so happy with that! Cheers for the heads up!!
Just shopping for some heatwrap and steel ties to tart the exhaust up where some of the wrap has basically died!! s:x :x s:x
May try and pick up a few extra clips etc to tidy up things. Any recommendations for replacing the jubilee clips?
Also, whilst I'm at it I am thinking of getting some connectors for the 525cc blitz injectors that came with the kit. I've seen these from MWR:
m http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/produ ... ts_id=1053 (http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=44_80_163&products_id=1053) m
m http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/produ ... ts_id=1052 (http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=44_80_163&products_id=1052) m
Any body know if they work with injectors other than MWR's own?
Ok, so to keep this up to date, I have dropped off my oil return hose at Pirtek today. They will be making me a new one tomorrow (apparently they have done a few and the guy seemed fairly unsurprised by the request! s:D :D s:D ) and all being well, this should be on tomorrow evening if I can collect it from work.
I've also ordered some heat wrap and steel ties to tidy up the exhaust a little. I'm also looking to order a Turbo to Exhaust gasket. I'm sure I've seen this on here somewhere, but can't seem to find the info now that I need it!? s:flame: :flame: s:flame: Am I right in thinking it's a Volvo (or something?) gasket that fits? I have found a couple on eBay for around about a tenner, but I'm not sure how great they will be... s:? :? s:?
The gasket you want is a Nissan one ,if you search for GT28r gasket on the bay you should find the one, try to avoid the ones that look like they have tiny holes in them all over the surface,they are not good. You want the metal ones that crush to make the seal ,you'll know what i mean when you have a look,if in doubt get a genuine Nissan one,whilst your at it get two bolt retainers from Nissan ,these lock the bolts that fasten your turbo to the manifold and are needed(although you may have some already with the Hass kit,heat and vibration will soon see your turbo nuts fall off without.
Cheers, Steve. I'll scoot over and have a nosey.
I've been eyeing up nordlocks for the bolts on the kit - Heard very good things about them, and there are actually some (reasonable well used) ones on the exhaust at the moment. Will be looking to pick some of them up when the kit is on so that I can feel reasonably comfortable that I won't see bits bouncing out in my rear view!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
This is the thing with turbo kits, it's not the big parts that are the issue ,it's all the tiny but significant parts that make the kit a winner or not s8) 8) s8)
Glad to see it's getting on to your car!
I actually bought a bit of piping to replace that oil return but never got round to fitting it.
Did you check the little parts bag for a new paper seal? I thought I dropped one in there.
You'll have to check the manifold nuts every time you take it out to check for them going loose. Well at least until you are sure they aren't going anywhere.
If you are looking at things to stop the nuts turning, the fold up ones from Nissan that are on the turbo -> manifold nuts work really well.
The manifold had started to crack a little so I got it rewelded and skimmed flat so it should be good just get the bracing on tight.
Going to be keeping an eye on the build(rebuild?)
Well unfortunately I have been let down on receiving my hose today, but should hopefully be able to post up some pics tomorrow for those asking.
Whilst at it, I ordered one of the turbo-exhaust gaskets from below (Thanks to Ste for nicking it from another thread in the first place s:wink: :wink: s:wink: , figured I would pop it here for completeness), but they are now £24+vat!!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "spit"Shamelessly poached from a Mark post and in my favourites just in case s:wink: :wink: s:wink: :
Turbo to Manifold is a rectangular 4 bolt flange, Nissan part number for this on the S14 200SX is 1441575F10 and comes in at £12.70
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/nissanturbogasket.jpg)
Turbo to exhaust (odd shaped 5 bolt affair) Nissan part number for the s14 200SX 1444575F10 cost £16.48
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/nissanexhaustgasket.jpg)
These fit standard GT28 Family Garret Turbos including those on the Hass and C2 kits[/list]
Ok, a further update mainly to fulfil a promise of posting up pics of the new hose that I had constructed by Pirtek:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo9.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo11.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo10.jpg)
Much better!! s:D :D s:D
So Friday evening I attached the new hose to the Turbo using the spare gasket (Thanks Simon!), and some more of the liquid gasket sealant that I bought for the oil pan:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo12.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Turbo13.jpg)
Seems to have worked a treat but only time will tell!! It looks like I have used more gasket juice than I have. Was careful not to overload it and clog anything up!! s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
The weekend was a tad more productive but I'll post that up in a mo! s:D :D s:D
So Saturday, the Mrs was working all day so I set about doing a few more jobs. Most notably:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install3.jpg)
s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Now the bracing that accompanied the Turbo are:
On the left (as you look at the pic above):
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install5.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install4.jpg)
I am unsure if this hole is supposed to attach to something!? Concerns me a little. Can anyone shed any light on it? s:? :? s:?
On the Right:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install6.jpg)
This one will fit on once the exhaust has been offered up to the Turbo outlet:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install7.jpg)
I also replaced some of the heatwrap on the exhaust:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Exhaust3.jpg)
and gave the whole thing a fresh coat of paint:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Exhaust4.jpg)
Well that is progress so far. Ideally tomorrow I would like to do a test fit of the exhaust to help me work out what kind of space I have to work with for the intake and chargecooler piping. Slow but steady really! s:D :D s:D Thanks for noseying!
Good to see my old hass kit lives
Quote from: "markiii"Good to see my old hass kit lives
Almost, Mark!
Don't suppose that you could shed any light on the Turbo brace could you?
I'm sure there were three bolts in that brace. Hard to remember though...
Would be silly if there wasn't.
And I like the tidied up exhaust and oil return.
Quote from: "SimonC_Here"I'm sure there were three bolts in that brace. Hard to remember though...
Would be silly if there wasn't.
And I like the tidied up exhaust and oil return.
That's what I thought!? However, the hole doesn't align with anything on the block or Turbo.
Was wondering if maybe something related to the Turbo is attached to it using that hole - eg. Oil in pipe hose to keep it tidied up?
Quote from: "AmeR"Quote from: "SimonC_Here"I'm sure there were three bolts in that brace. Hard to remember though...
Would be silly if there wasn't.
And I like the tidied up exhaust and oil return.
That's what I thought!? However, the hole doesn't align with anything on the block or Turbo.
Was wondering if maybe something related to the Turbo is attached to it using that hole - eg. Oil in pipe hose to keep it tidied up?
Looks like it might just be for support, don't think there are any holes around that height s:? :? s:?
Like the oil return, mine's just silicone and was pretty fragile down there, I could do with getting one of those made up.
Looking good, will be nice to see it in the flesh s:D :D s:D
do you have a better picture of teh brace, I seem to remember it having 3 bolts, but have a funny feeling it was 2 at the top and 1 at the bottom, could it be upside down?
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/TurboBrace1.jpg)
Best that I have with me.
The holes all lined up perfectly and I'm pretty sure that it was attached that way when the turbo turned up (though I realise it could have been put back on wrong after removal). The holes for the bottom and the one that attaches to the brace all line up nicely but that could be coincidence I guess!?
that looks more or less like the brace that I remember, however the welds are bumpier and its was painted black.
its been 4 years though so that may have been that Simon had a new bracket made.
as I remember it, the block has 2 sets of 3 holes which are used by the stock manifold support brackets. The bracket is designed so that it attaches to the left hand 3 holes used by the stock bracket.
2 at the top, one at the bottom, so I reckon its upside down
I may just have attached it to the turbo to keep it together. I think Mark is right that the two holes were at the top.
I didn't make a new bracket, and it looks like it's been painted.
Hi Paul,
this is all over my head, s:roll: :roll: s:roll: ........but just to say,cant wait to see it,eventually.
also,if you need extra cash to fund your project.......i'll have first dibs on your black
JDM wheel centre's..... s:evil: :evil: s:evil: .....
idle curiosity, the chargecooler route looks different, have you changed it, or did Simon during his ownsership?
Quote from: "markiii"idle curiosity, the chargecooler route looks different, have you changed it, or did Simon during his ownsership?
I see no charge cooler yet!
If you mean the turbo out flange, I had to change it because of the new turbo unit after the "bolt" problem! It came with a flat plate that the triangle thing is bolted to.
agh, no i was thinking about the outlet pipe coming behind the crossmember and back in again, I assume teh CC is then going in a straight line between it and teh TB
whereas I had it at angle directly from the turbo outlet toward the TB
Cheers guys. Going to remove the turbo this evening to fit some new manifold studs that I have bought (Does anyone know if they should be torque'd into the block or is it just a case of tighten up and let the torque of the nut do the rest!?) so will review the bracket situation then.
It is the bracket that I got from Simon (don't think it was revised from your ownership), but I had a couple of extra supports welded on to the sides and I have painted it up.
Quote from: "Chris H"Hi Paul,
this is all over my head, s:roll: :roll: s:roll: ........but just to say,cant wait to see it,eventually.
also,if you need extra cash to fund your project.......i'll have first dibs on your black
JDM wheel centre's..... s:evil: :evil: s:evil: .....
If times get desperate, then I'll leave the car off the road a little longer s:wink: :wink: s:wink: The centre caps are staying!!! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
hope those extra supports don't foul when fitting it
manifold studs do have a torque rating but if your using shouldered studs they can only go in so far and so tight anyway.
personally I usually work on the basis that a 1/4 inch ratchcet and your left hand until it feels tight, that way you can't overdo it.
And with an ali block, you really don't want to overdo it.
Quote from: "markiii"hope those extra supports don't foul when fitting it
Me too now!! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: Had them put on when I was working off how I
thought it was attached. Got ahead of myself a little there!! s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "markiii"manifold studs do have a torque rating but if your using shouldered studs they can only go in so far and so tight anyway.
personally I usually work on the basis that a 1/4 inch ratchcet and your left hand until it feels tight, that way you can't overdo it.
And with an ali block, you really don't want to overdo it.
I thought that may be the case since they can only go in so far, as you say. Will put some thread lock on them when I'm doing it to make sure they're less likely to go for a walk at any point!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Thanks!
+1 on threadlock and a light nip once it has shouldered. I was losing studs on a regular basis pre re-build. Since then not a hint of a stud breaking free.
Out of interest Paul, what was the damage for the Pirtek suaged fittings? I had my water lines done by them but can't for the life of me remember what it cost s:oops: :oops: s:oops: . Its well worth doing IMHO - jubilee clips on wire-wrapped rubber hose just doesn't cut it in the environment around the turbo hub.
Quote from: "AmeR"Cheers guys. Going to remove the turbo this evening to fit some new manifold studs that I have bought (Does anyone know if they should be torque'd into the block or is it just a case of tighten up and let the torque of the nut do the rest!?) so will review the bracket situation then.
It is the bracket that I got from Simon (don't think it was revised from your ownership), but I had a couple of extra supports welded on to the sides and I have painted it up.
Quote from: "Chris H"Hi Paul,
this is all over my head, s:roll: :roll: s:roll: ........but just to say,cant wait to see it,eventually.
also,if you need extra cash to fund your project.......i'll have first dibs on your black
JDM wheel centre's..... s:evil: :evil: s:evil: .....
If times get desperate, then I'll leave the car off the road a little longer s:wink: :wink: s:wink: The centre caps are staying!!! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Worth a try... s:wink: :wink: s:wink: .....Keep up the good work..... s8) 8) s8)
Right the Turbo is back off s:cry: :cry: s:cry: and I've taken a couple of pics.
Here is the brace left on after removing the Turbo:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install8.jpg)
And the part that the brace was bolted too on the Turbo (brown gunky hole):
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install9.jpg)
I've got to be honest and say that I can't figure out how else the brace would bolt to the block and the Turbo!? It seemed really sturdy, however I am aware that doesn't necessarily mean it's doing it's job optimally!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Wouldn't the bottom of the brace be mounted on the stock exhaust manifold support bracket that bolts on the side of the block?
Bolt the brace onto the block using the stock manifold brace holes then see if the turbo an manifold line up with brace
As mark said try and fit the brace first. Try both ways round as well.
I'll have a look tonight to see if I have any pictures of the brace attached to my car. The old hosting that it could have been on is no longer there so I'll check my computer tonight.
After doing a bit of hunting around I have come across the following couple of pics from Markiii's Fixing My Molten Roadster (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10350&hilit=hass+turbo+brace&start=60) Thread:
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/cleanengine.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/turborefitted.jpg)
It would appear that I had the brace the correct way up:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install8.jpg)
But my block appears to be missing the upper bolting point:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal4.jpg)
Now I really am confused!! s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: My car is an early 2001, where as Mark's was a later 2001 (51 plate I believe) - Does this mean my block is different because of that? Have I been dupped and it's not an MR2 engine? And most importantly, am I going to be ok using the 2 lower bolt holes only or is some kind of improvisation called for here? Oh my head hurts again!! s:flame: :flame: s:flame:
interesting
memory is a strange thing
the purpose of the 2 braces is to stop the turbo twisting, its the twist that cause the manifold studs to come loose and the turbo to manifold bolts to shear
I've just checked the 53 reg engine that happens to be in my garage and it has the hole that your missing.
is it the original engine?
As far as I am aware, Mark, it is. I have a LOT of documentation backing up mileage, etc etc on the car, and never has there been any issues reported on it.
I bought it from Alan on here who barely used the car (in 6-7 years!), and checked back through all of his old posts before purchasing it - No issues!!
I am really hoping that it is just a revision mid 2001 that has caused the difference. There's not even anything close that I could make a connection to with that top bolt hole either! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
How peculiar, do you think there is enough support with the single bolt?
From my mind to the page through the power of Greyskull
Will have 2 bolts in at the bottom but I'm not sure how that will stand up to the twisting motion of the Turbo!! s:( :( s:(
the hole on the engine in my garage is in a cast bung which is a shame or I'd have been tempted to drill the block
I don't remeber Alan ever having a replacement engine either, so probably safe to assume its original
anyone with a really early car able to check theres?
If teh bracket fits well (hole aside) and you can't twist it with 2 hands I'd be tempted to risk it, other than that your only realistic option is to design a new bracket which mounts to something else
the bracket was originally made by Thor for Dans old 53 plate car so it seems the hole is likely to have existed on post 51 cars
I got two early blocks at mine. I'll check to see if it has the bolt hole.
Well my 2003 has those two top holes the same as Marks' block. s:? :? s:?
I suggest you use what you have, the bottom two ... but thread lock them (I've recently lost all my bolts from these positions)
I'm sure my X reg had 3 bolts in there...
Doh then again I did have the precat failure and the short block changed.
Looking at Ste's old pictures of the C2 install shows his block doesn't have them either;
(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4260/car76gm.jpg)
Must be a year thing
Thanks guys s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
I've fitted it back on as it was, using just the 2 lower holes. There is very little around there to brace to, and I figured some form of bracing is better than nothing!? Will make a mental note to keep an eye on it.
Whilst I was at it, I fitted my new manifold studs and nuts, and threadlocked everything as I went! Feeling a tad better about it all tonight! s:D :D s:D
Well apart from that back set (and potentially another but that can wait for now!), I've test fitted the exhaust to ensure that there is the amount of space that I'd like for intake / chargecooling piping and there is. I ordered some new elbows last night and will be popping back to Pirtek for the clamps that I want.
I'm looking at plugging in the coolant hoses for the Turbo, and just wanted to make sure that I was stickcing them in the right holes (oo er!) before popping the tubes off and probably getting coolant all over my feet only to find I'v plugged them in the wrong way around! I've had a good nosey around at some old threads but just wondered if anyone had any pics of a Hass turbo kit straight on that might give me some more assurances!?
Looking at the boost controller too and trying to work that out!! So much to do... Gives me a headache just thinking about it!!
I'll be holding a meet at mine at this rate just to save bugging you all with these posts!!!
If I get mine finished soon I'll bring it down so you can have a nosey, it's not a Hass but you may get some ideas.
Mike
best place to plumb the coolant in is to remove the rubber elbow that comes out of the left side of the rear block face
get 2 pieces of hose and connect the block to the turbo, and the other turbo coolant fitting to the the t-piece that used to connect to the elbow
technically there is an inlet and outlet on teh turbo, bt in reality I'm not sure it matters that much
Minor update time.
New bolts and nuts to hang the manifold:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/StudsandBolts1.jpg)
Old and New:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/StudsandBolts2.jpg)
Then I plumbed the water hoses on the Turbo.
Oil goes from Top to Bottom, Water from Back (Block) to Front (Exhaust) according to some stuff that I found online. Not sure how much difference it makes if they're the other way round!?
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install10.jpg)
Cable ties are temporary until I can get some proper clamps on there.
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install11.jpg)
Big thanks for the replies and Mark for sending me through a few items! s:D :D s:D
Any updates Paul. s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Well my hoses are ordered, my new clamps are here (though nothing to clamp them too! s:( :( s:( ), and I have Spit generously popping round this afternoon to give me a few pointers on where I'm plugging stuff etc!! That should speed things along quite considerably I'd imagine!
I'm hoping this evening / tomorrow should see further steps taken and hopefully a few more pics to prove it! s:D :D s:D
Huge thanks to Mike and Ste for popping round to offer plenty of fantastic advice and point me in the right direction! Feeling much more confident about pushing on with the install now. s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
Need to do the insurance rounds tomorrow! s:( :( s:( Should be interesting...
Good to meet up with everyone at Amer Towers today. Great to see how nicely you're thinking through that install Paul. You'll be up and running soon.
I was having a thunk on the drive home re: the BC solenoid and associated pipework. I reckon your plan for positioning will work really neatly and allow you to lose some of the many inter-connections, which is always a good thing.
I'm wondering if there's mileage in running straight through to the actuator in the first instance (ie one pipe, missing out the boost control) to get a feel for the install on standard wastegate operation...... and then running at the same PSI with solenoid in place before notching it up further?
It might be more interesting than handy to have that compare/contrast, but it could also help with placement decisions once the install is complete and it removes a potential 'complication' from your initial start-up and shakedown sessions.
speaking from experience, double check the solenoid is the right way round, or it makes a lot more power than you think
great until it breaks :-) :-) :-)
Wow, no update from me since Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:44 pm.... Ooops! Sorry guys! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Guess this it's gonna be a HUGE update post then...
Quote from: "AmeR"Well my hoses are ordered, my new clamps are here (though nothing to clamp them too! s:( :( s:( ), and I have Spit generously popping round this afternoon to give me a few pointers on where I'm plugging stuff etc!! That should speed things along quite considerably I'd imagine!
I'm hoping this evening / tomorrow should see further steps taken and hopefully a few more pics to prove it! s:D :D s:D
My silicone elbows finally turned up:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install12.jpg)
and went in:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install13.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install14.jpg)
Shortly followed by a catch can (yes, that's a 10 pence piece!):
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install16.jpg)
Mounted next to the passenger side rear strut:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install17.jpg)
Quick test fit of the exhaust (will be coming back out shortly for a few bits to go back in and a maintenance issue... more about that later!)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install19.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install20.jpg)
Chargecooler (partial) install:
Firstly, proof that I am doing this myself (honest, that's me!!):
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Chargecooler2.jpg)
Front off:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Chargecooler3.jpg)
Radiator on:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Chargecooler5.jpg)
To mount the pump in the front, I utilised the old alarm bracket from the frunk (so glad I kept this, possibly a lesson!? s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ):
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Chargecooler6.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Chargecooler7.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Chargecooler8.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Chargecooler11.jpg)
And, after a lot of fettling, swearing and frustration, I managed to mount the tank behind the driver's side real light:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Chargecooler12.jpg)
Now it's just a case of plugging the pipes in the correct holes and filling it up (sounds simple that doesn't it!? s:shock: :shock: s:shock: )
And also, possibly a little less exciting following the above, but I did some maintenance whilst I was at it.
Rad hangers before:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/RadHangers1.jpg)
And after:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/RadHangers2.jpg)
Facelift H Brace:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/HBrace.jpg)
Example of some painting i've done to try and tart up the engine bay a little, or at least make it look a bit less tatty!!
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/BatteryTray.jpg)
You've ruined those seat covers s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Well done Paul, coming along nicely :-) :-) :-)
Ok I have made quite a bit of progress and really need to update this thread with pics and words to that effect, however I'm afraid I'm wanting to pic your collective brains again!
From what I have read on chargecooler.co.uk they suggest just using water to fill the system. Now I'm concerned that in colder weather that is not going to be a good thing, however I don't want to shove a load of anti freeze etc in the mix if it will end up damaging my pump etc... Advice please?
Off to buy some oil straight after work tomorrow. I've discovered (thanks Simon) that I now have a 2ZZ sump, which seems bigger than a 1ZZ by I'd say about a litre. Can anyone confirm quite how much I'll need to be buying?
I feel so close, and I'd really love to bring her along to Ding Day!! So, thanks in advance! s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
Mix of anti freeze and water in the system Paul, it will be fine. s;) ;) s;)
I had some anti freeze mixed with water in the system so if the pump was going to be damaged it already is!
I've found the info on teh sump:
Quoteit's an oil pan off a 2ZZ with integral oil return AND the shallow end has been modified/ extended with an integral hinged baffle and increased capacity
so slightly larger than a 2zz
antifreeze is fine
what oil are you planning?
Quote from: "AmeR"Off to buy some oil straight after work tomorrow. I've discovered (thanks Simon) that I now have a 2ZZ sump, which seems bigger than a 1ZZ by I'd say about a litre. Can anyone confirm quite how much I'll need to be buying?
The 2zz engine takes 4.4 litres (inc filter, 4.2 excluding filter).
QuoteENGINE LUBRICATION
Oil capacity (drain and refill),
L (qt., Imp. qt.):
1.8 L 4−cylinder (1ZZ−FE) engine
With filter 4.2 (4.4, 3.7)
Without filter 4.0 (4.2, 3.5)
1.8 L 4−cylinder (2ZZ−GE) engine
With filter 4.4 (4.7, 3.9)
Without filter 4.2 (4.4, 3.7)
m http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document ... /pdf/8.pdf (http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om/OM12A23U/pdf/8.pdf) m
Quote from: "markiii"what oil are you planning?
Well, based on the suggestions earlier in this thread, fully synthetic, probably 10w-60 (As Steve M suggested) and a decent brand. I am certainly open to suggestions though!!
Quote from: "dcod"The 2zz engine takes 4.4 litres (inc filter, 4.2 excluding filter).
Thanks. Not much more then really!? I was planning on putting say 4.0 litres in and allowing it to settle, and then topping up. Looks like I'd be buying a 5l tub either way!
Quote from: "AmeR"Quote from: "markiii"what oil are you planning?
Well, based on the suggestions earlier in this thread, fully synthetic, probably 10w-60 (As Steve M suggested) and a decent brand. I am certainly open to suggestions though!!
Quote from: "dcod"The 2zz engine takes 4.4 litres (inc filter, 4.2 excluding filter).
Thanks. Not much more then really!? I was planning on putting say 4.0 litres in and allowing it to settle, and then topping up. Looks like I'd be buying a 5l tub either way!
I would
a) Confirm a 1ZZ with 2ZZ sump takes the recommended capacity as a 2ZZ (email someone like MWR)
b) Put in the correct amount and check where the oil comes up on the 1ZZ dipstick to see how accurate it is.
s:D :D s:D
Id recommend Fuchs Titan Race Pro S Ester Synthetic Engine Oil if you can get it mate. Opie oils usually do a good deal on it. I was previously using Mobil 1 ESP (which isn't cheap) prior to my turbo install and I was burning/losing a little. I was told I would be likely to lose more after I have gone turbo due to the increased pressures involved. Since changing to Fuchs ive not used a drop. Warranted the oil is thicker but it seems to hold up pretty well.
you may struggle to get 19W60, but 10W50 is easily available and worked fine for me
I used to use the Silkolene Pro S which has now be rebranded as Fuchs Titan and is currently on 25% discount at Opie
If desperate halfords do 10w60 mobile 1
Ok, the wiring is in place... all I need now is some oil in the car and I can try firing it up. I think my plan will be to get some cheaper oil such as mobile one to run in on for the next couple of weeks, then order some Fuchs Titan Race Pro S from Opie Oils and dump the cheaper stuff. that should flush out all the dust and crap that has gotten in places that it shouldn't have over the period of the install!!
Good news Paul. I hope it all runs smoothly
Fingers crossed for you Buddy
Good luck Paul, I hope it fires up first time s:grin: :grin: s:grin:
Nearly there now Paul, prepare to bask in the moment when it fires up and runs well! s:D :D s:D
Hats off to you Paul and i hope she fires up first time :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "Mike_V"Hats off to you Paul and i hope she fires up first time :-) :-) :-)
+1 s:D :D s:D
+1 to the start first time!
If you take it out, I would set the boost controller to off to start with, just to make sure it is all running OK.
Fingers crossed bud s8-) 8-) s8-) sure it will be fine, just take it easy to start with until everything is happy.
Was looking through your thread yesterday, Paul... took me a good few seconds to realise i had the iPod upside down when scrolling... thought you'd been pulling your car to pieces, instead of putting it together...!! s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ...what a relief that wasn't the case!! s:D :D s:D
Exciting stuff!! Can't wait to see the tubby 2 in action s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "dcod"Quote from: "Mike_V"Hats off to you Paul and i hope she fires up first time :-) :-) :-)
+1 s:D :D s:D
+2 s:) :) s:)
For those that don't know, the 2 made it to Ding Day!! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Ok, so I managed to get the wheels on and head off about 11 pm to the hotel just below Wrexham where we stayed the night before. Arrived around about 1 am after a nice quiet journey, roof down all the way!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
So I figured now that the cat is out of the bag that I should update with some build photos and a few words.
Exhaust finally fitted:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install23.jpg)
Not the easiest part of the build by a long shot. As it is one of the last items to go in, it really does means some stuff is in the way of making things easy... Though I am growing to expect that with these cars! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I replaced the gasket whilst at it (part number, cost etc posted previously):
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install21.jpg)
Chargecooler header tank went black to try and keep with a theme:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install25.jpg)
Some general photos of the engine bay install:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install24.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install26.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install27.jpg)
Whilst I was taking things apart, I decided to remove the plastic air intake pipe from over the wing, as I felt it may direct air away from the Apexi intake a little:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Removal13.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Install28.jpg)
Oh, I didn't actually take a piccie, but I have a pretty much brand new filter on now too! s:D :D s:D
Wiring Update
Connecting up the uprated injectors proved an issue as I wasn't wanting to snip and solder, just in case. This left me with very few options, however using mini spade connectors seemed the most logical one:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Injectors1-1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Injectors2-1.jpg)
They plugged in perfectly (after I trimmed the sides of the spades a tad with the dremel!).
Getting to the original ECU wasn't the most fun, made even more awkward by the amp in my rear bins!! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Wiring4.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Wiring5.jpg)
Thankfully, as is the nature of se3cond hand kits, the hard part of getting the wires in the right place etc had been done for me!!
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Wiring6.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Turbo/Wiring7.jpg)
The green wire seen in most of the above was then run down to the relay connected to the chargecooler pump and provides the switch live.
A couple of us were wondering how you bled the air out of the chargecooler.
Yours gets a bit warm whereas they're usually pretty cool.
Post Ding Day, I have been swapping PM's with Ste to discuss just that. We're thinking that a proper bleed of the system could be what is causing my issues. I'm hoping to give it a go tomorrow or Wednesday.
He also suggested that a temperature outputting OBD II may be of some use. I believe that you may possess such an item!? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Nice, I see you've got the water pipes going in from the bottom, I wonders if the charge cooler is trapping some air, It was a bugger to bleed when the pipes came out the top.
Glad it runs!
Did my chargecooler at weekend found this trick was to drop the cooler and a combination of a pressure bleeder and power to the pump worked a trick.
You really need those outlets on the cc facing upward to expel the air. Any obdII reader will give the info, you are watching the air inlet temp,as you drive it should fall if the cc is working and then remain stable at around 20deg or thereabouts.
A few none Turbo related activities have taken place in between bolting a fun wheel to the back end!
I rubbed down the front end and put on some waxoyl:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Maintenance/MaintenanceFront1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Maintenance/MaintenanceFront2.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Maintenance/MaintenanceFront3.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Maintenance/MaintenanceFront5.jpg)
Even had some help... well, more company than help:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Maintenance/MaintenanceFront4.jpg)
As you may have spotted from the above, the prefacelift front lower brace bars have been replaced with a facelift H brace:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/HBraceOldNew.jpg)
And I even managed to get my C-One panel on too! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Comparison between it and the standard plastic tray that it replaces:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/C-OnePanelFrontCompare.jpg)
And fitted:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/C-OnePanelOn1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/C-OnePanelOn2.jpg)
As for the back, I have fitted my Che under engine brace that I have had lying around for AGES!!!!
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/UnderEngineBrace1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/UnderEngineBrace2.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/UnderEngineBrace4.jpg)
Pipes are now up and secured, not hanging free like that!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Popped on some new wheels too. Rota Grids, 16" fronts, 17" rears, staggered Toyo Proxes (Cheers Steve s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/RotaGrids1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/01/Modifications/RotaGrids4.jpg)
My intention is to pop the silicone elbows of the CC and undo the bracket, and hopefully be able to drop it down and rotate 180 degrees to have the in / outlets facing up and using the header tank and the pump should be able to bleed it out properly. I am definitely not making a low enough temperature within CC!!
Once the air is out, it should be fine inverted. Its a nice neat install, good job! s:) :) s:)
Looking very neat on Saturday Paul. If trapped air is your main shakedown issue then you can give yourself a huge pat on the back for a job well done. s8) 8) s8)
From your PM'd description of how it behaved in various ambients, the charge temperature has to be your prime candidate for stumblies and choking a little under boost, but I'll pop over so we can confirm your TPS calibration and look at the idle air map etc with the EM software.
Fantastic build Paul, congratulations. You've made it look quite easy (although I'm sure its not!)
Where could you buy this kit? and do you know anyone selling one second hand? many thanks ! s:) :) s:)
this kit?
you couldn't it started off as a Hass and then was heavily modded by me, to include Chargecooler and Exhaust and custom map. It was then bought from me by Simon who then sold it to Paul
so its pretty much a custom kit at this point
Quote from: "JoniiBoii"Where could you buy this kit? and do you know anyone selling one second hand? many thanks ! s:) :) s:)
Keep your eye on the for sale thread mate, turbo kits come up every now and then you just have to wait im affraid
Ok, last night I managed to drop the chargecooler down and rotate it bleed the inevitably trapped air. Well, I have to say, there was a fair bit! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
However, the important news is that I have this bled now and following a run out, it was chilly all over despite the hot TRD brace sat just above it!! Result!! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Thanks all for the advice, and pointing out how my rushing to hit Ding Day had kind of kicked my "slow and steady" approach of the last few weeks in the nuts!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Also, thanks for the kind words, though I have scratched my CC doing this so it's on my tart up list once again!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
nice looking forward to seeing it in action
[MOD]I think we can do without the chit-chat that hd nothing to do with the build of the car or the topic under discussion. I do particularly like one part of it and will use it here just to remind everyone to stay on topic
QuoteIf you don't have anything constructive to add to the actual build thread, then please don't let the door hit you on the way out!!
well done Amer s:lol: :lol: s:lol: [/MOD][/color]