I had my Engine Replaced with an '04 1zz 31/10/2011.
07/06/2012 Engine died.
The Warranty was for 6months or 6000miles.
(so out of warranty)
Is there anything I can do?
I rang up and was basically fobbed off, manager on leave we'll get him to call you monday.
As it's out of warranty they are not interested, but surely there must be something I can do...
I did the 500 and 5000 mile inspection and I had only just picked my car up yesterday morning from having the bolts checked and inspection for leaks.
I have been checking the oil frequently as I got in the habbit from the previous oil burner.
The Oil had not gone down, was on 1/3rd when I went to my parents (70miles) and was on 1/3rd when I left but 55miles later...
I heard a loud ticking while doing 70mph on the A34, I'd just passed a lay by and there wasn't another for 2 miles.
About a mile later, ticking still loud... the oil light came on, instantly I thought crap.
100metres after that, stalled while going up a hill... I managed to steer safely on to the grass verge.
Waited 2 hours before our tow came, in the pitch black, while being told we couldn't have broken down in a more dangerous place.
I checked the oil this morning, still on a third... so oil pressure?
I'm presuming the stall meant ceasure, writing the engine off.
I haven't tried to start her again, and awaiting a call from QED monday (not holding my hopes up though)
Anybody have any knowledge on this?
My engine swap cost me about 2k...(engine/parts/labour) an expense job for 8months use!
Thanks in advance
Colin
How many miles have you done?
6207miles
The oil light will only come on at a very low oil pressure.
Difficult to be sure but it sounds like a seizure after big end failure.
Try getting a spanner on the crank pulley at the front of the engine to see if it will turn over. (Done this loads of times but never had to on a 2 so don't know how easy it is to get a spanner in there).
Obviously, speak nicely to the supplying garage, you never know how they will react.
if it stop really quickly when it stalled ie black lines left on the road, then fear the worst if not it might not be stuck. however if the oil light came on and there was still oil in the engine then it will most likely to be a blocked strainer or knackard oil pump. in all cases im going to guess that the ticking was the big ends knocking due to oil starvation and will be shot.
Spoke to a few of my friends and they suggested as it has Oil in it may it not be ceased, but unfortunately it is ceased.
No skid marks on road because as I felt it stall I dipped the clutch to try and save it, but wasn't quick enough.
Guess I shall be selling it as Spares/Repairs s:-( :-( s:-(
1. Why did you replace the engine?
2. Were the precats intact or removed?
3. If the precats had broken down was the main cat replaced?
TBH, I'm sorry to say it sounds terminal, the supplier has supplied the engine with a warranty and the engine did last for the life of the warranty ... there's no come back, you signed a contract and they delivered according to the contract.
If the answer to 3. above is no then this may have resulted in excessive back pressure in the exhaust which will affect the engine, one possible result from this is big end failure. Oil starvation could also be the cause and the lack of oil light really didn't help you s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "ginger1"Spoke to a few of my friends and they suggested as it has Oil in it may it not be ceased, but unfortunately it is ceased.
Yeah, you won't lose any oil with big end failure but you will lose pressure so the bearings can still seize.
I had an Oil Burner (would still be running now just burning oil so 2k wasted)
Precats removed so new engine never had them (though they still look in good condition)
To be honest though it may have lasted the life of the warranty,
They are basically saying that an engine they rebuild is only good for just beyond that.
Sounds expensive to change the engine every year if that.
If this is truely an accident, they should be aiming for possitive feedback by keeping the customer satisfied, the price of one is insignificant.
Though if this happens regularly, then people should be aware to steer clear of them.
Pending the result of the conversation I have with them monday, will directly affect how I inform people of my experience, they are sat with 100% poss feedback.
My feedback at the moment will not be so generous, and if you were looking at an engine swap, checked the feedback and saw that someone else had one done and it lasted 8months, would you think one off? or steer clear?
I agree though, I don't think I'll be seeing any form of help from them.
Also I have AA through my bank, regretabbly.
As if I was actually with the AA, they could have helped me.
My friend had a similar problem a few years ago, and the AA stripped the engine and the person who did it for him had to take the hit even though it was out of warranty.
Thanks for your replies,
I need a beer!
Colin
Anyone who says they rebuild an engine to last just beyond the Warranty is asking for a case from the authorities.
See if you can get that in writing and then take it to the CAB.
I suppose I could try and get them to pull the tape from the phone call?
Did you replace the main cat as Nic has asked, when the rebuild engine went in?
When I had the initial rebuild I had a high flow cat installed, the last week I returned to standard, which was a second hand post cat as my original was split
Do you know the history of the 2nd hand cat? Is it possible you bought a blocked cat?
I suppose it is possible, but I trust who I bought it from... so I'd like to think the cat is okay.
Is there a way to check?
Not sure tbh. Gutted for you, after the 2k outlay.
Be polite and calm at all times when dealing with the garage, but do emphasis that you are expecting some recourse from them as a goodwill gesture.
I have a 5 year old samsung tv that recently developed a fault which a google search found to be a known design fault, samsung repaired it foc, so worth trying.
I'm starting to lose this thread a bit (age s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )
Was it a second hand engine or a rebuilt second hand engine?
If the former then they wouldn't really have a clue about its condition. If the latter then you have a much stronger case.
Car = 2002
Engine = Second hand 2004 rebuilt, I believe it's a celica/corolla engine.
Quote from: "ginger1"Car = 2002
Engine = Second hand 2004 rebuilt, I believe it's a celica/corolla engine.
The one come back you may have is if they didnt install a 2004 engine,check the engine numbers against these: l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33717&hilit= (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33717&hilit=) l
Quote from: "life of bryan"Quote from: "ginger1"Car = 2002
Engine = Second hand 2004 rebuilt, I believe it's a celica/corolla engine.
The one come back you may have is if they didnt install a 2004 engine,check the engine numbers against these: l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33717&hilit= (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33717&hilit=) l
Good one Bryan! s:D :D s:D
Also, if THEY rebuilt it then you would reasonably expect the crank and bearings to have been checked and if necessary reground and oversize shells to have been fitted. This would be fundamental to an engine rebuild.
You would then expect them to last the average life of an engine (Z11 70k?).
First though you still need to establish exactly what the fault is.
All hinges on how they choose to deal with your complaint so just be sure about what you want the outcome to be and maybe have a fallback position.
Also again, the warranty doesn't alter your statutory rights in that what was sold must be fit for purpose etc. so you could reasonably expect an engine to last for longer than 6000 miles so, as suggested, the CAB will still be an option.
I had a look but I can't work it out, my number is 1ZZU267547
Thanks again for all of your responses.
Quote from: "ginger1"I had a look but I can't work it out, my number is 1ZZU267547
Thanks again for all of your responses.
The "U" should be a number,are you sure you got it right?
I know it should be a number that's what's confusing.
Yeah I took it from exactly the same place on the previous engine...
which was 1ZZ090*** not sure why it has a U
Worth contacting Toyota GB and asking if they can tell you the year.
Unless. There is an engine very similar to the 1zz however has smaller valves, might explain the engine code.
Quote from: "rbuckingham"Unless. There is an engine very similar to the 1zz however has smaller valves, might explain the engine code.
If that is the case wouldnt fitting the wrong type of 1ZZ be enough for a small claims court case if it came to it?
I would think that that would be an addition to the evidence ie you didn't fit the right engine (fit for purpose again really).
I think you could build a good argument but just need to organise it in preparation for what the garage says.
If they did fit the wrong engine, happy days as that means its there fault and they must either refund you or fit the correct engine. However its there choice on which it is.
I hope it is the wrong one now,
But they'll just say operational equivalent.
I'd be happy with either, but know I'll get neither s:-( :-( s:-(
Quote from: "ginger1"I hope it is the wrong one now,
But they'll just say operational equivalent.
I'd be happy with either, but know I'll get neither s:-( :-( s:-(
Any difference in the engine no matter how small has an effect. The car was design and the ecu mapped to have a 1zz and nothing else, hence piggybacks and aftermarket ecu. If the engine wrong stand your ground as they are sfuck fuck sfuck ed
I'll ring Toyota with my fingers crossed :-) :-) :-)
Thanks again
You really do need to have a strategy because you have at least two options.
1. Forget the warranty because what you sold me was not fit for purpose. (Sale of Goods Act stuff)
You didn't recondition the engine properly, it should last at least 70k.
2. You sold me the wrong engine, it's not a 1ZZ for an MR2 Roadster. (Still Sale of Goods act stuff)
It doesn't really matter which one is your first pitch because the other one then becomes the back up.
I bet trading standards would love to hear about an engine supplier who admits to.supplying engines they have designed to only last just beyond a 6000mile 6 month warranty!
Sent from a planet somewhere nearby
It just started?!!
By no means did it sounds at all healthy, but it's not ceased.
That's good news really, particularly if you can get it to the engine supplier.
Right, had a long day of phone calls.
Toyota - Engine number is fine some just start with letters others with numbers all internals are the same.
CAB - Write a letter containing Sales of Good Act 1979 the information about the failure and the reason and give them 7-14days (at my discretion) to respond, contact again if any more issues.
If paid by credit card, Send the same letter to them too, quoting Claim under Section 75, Sales of Goods Act. As it was bought with their money you have more rights. (NOTE If you consider anything like this then pay by Credit Card)
Engine Supplier - This is where it gets fun.
It's out of the 6month warranty so that's all.
I quoted Sales of Goods Act 1979,
he replied - it's 2013 mate,
to which my response was just as snid - It's actually 2012 and show the law some respect.
His response - Loads of people ring up quoting the law,
My response - Loads of people ring up about problems do they...
His response - No... just on the occasion people to have problems.
After suffering his intolerable attitude, I asked if the Oil pump came with the engine, Response "Yes".
So either bad rebuild caused damage then blocked oil flow, or oil pump failed, both causes are your responsibility.
No out of warranty... not about warranty anymore mate, about my rights as a consumer.
Well we don't know how you drive...
So you're saying I red line everywhere?
No, but it is a sports car...
And my old engine had 66k when I bought it and I replaced WITHOUT FAILURE at 97, meaning it coped with some 31k of my "Red Lining" without fault.
We need to see your 500&5000mile service reciepts and speak to the manager tomorrow, that's fine I'll email you them but it's not under warranty so the conditions of it are meaningless :-) :-) :-)
Fun day for me.
But hopefully getting somewhere
Colin
Quote from: "ginger1"Toyota - Engine number is fine some just start with letters others with numbers all internals are the same.
I think they just fobbed you off there,not all 1ZZ engines are the same which would explain why some have a letter.None of the engine numbers given on that engine number link have a letter.
l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32399&hilit= (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32399&hilit=) l
He just said the 1zz-fe is the same for all cars.
In that link you gave it says the avensis only has 127bhp according to spec, then suggests it could be down to mapping or something, which is irrelivant if the block is the same?
I will try another Toyota tomorrow just in case
Colin
We have the 1ZZFED fitted to the MR2,I can't spoon feed you everything you are going to have to do your own research into the specifics but I believe they have different con rods and head.
Don't mean for you to feel like you're spoon feeding,
But when I spoke to Toyota, they told me a 1zz-fe is a 1zz-fe.
Now one has to be wrong so I shall ring a different Toyota tomorrow and ask them instead.
I will let you know my findings anyway
Ask yourself why would they have different engine codes if they are the same? With the 1ZZFED fitted to the MR2 and celica and the 1ZZFE fitted to more run of the mill cars.
I didn't realise there was a D... You make a good
Point though.
I will question to where my donor originated as well as asking
Toyota.
Cheers
Quote from: "ginger1"I quoted Sales of Goods Act 1979,
he replied - it's 2013 mate,
to which my response was just as snid - It's actually 2012
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Absolutely classic, some lines you just can't make up!
So well done really. I'm telling you what you are already doing because it's 'broken record technique' , uncomfortable as it is, from here. Stick to the 'forget warranty' line and concentrate on 'you didn't recondition the engine properly', not fit for purpose, it should have lasted for at least 70k (or whatever).
There was a fairly recent post on here where a member went as far as the small claims court and won but I can't find it.
I wouldn't complicate things with the engine type issue until you see how plan A progresses. Just keep it up the sleave.
Quote from: "mrzwei"There was a fairly recent post on here where a member went as far as the small claims court and won but I can't find it.
I wouldn't complicate things with the engine type issue until you see how plan A progresses. Just keep it up the sleave.
Was it this one? l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=36088&hilit= (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=36088&hilit=) l
Thanks for that link Bryan, I feel I've just read War and Peace s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
No, I'll try to get the brain cell working!
I just read it to, took a while.
I sent her a few questions anyway, see if she has done anything different and maybe cut some timely processes out as I need a car...
So I have spoken to the manager.
He offered - I remove engine, they will collect
Investigate the problem, if they find it to be them at fault,
Then they will pay half of the cost to rebuild it.
He said that their solicitor thinks from what he's seen they won't lose so it's a good offer and anything else will take a lot longer.
Think he's playing a scare technique?
They still haven't replied with engine info, so still the waiting game.
Quote from: "ginger1"So I have spoken to the manager.
He offered - I remove engine, they will collect
Investigate the problem, if they find it to be them at fault,
Then they will pay half of the cost to rebuild it.
He said that their solicitor thinks from what he's seen they won't lose so it's a good offer and anything else will take a lot longer.
Think he's playing a scare technique?
They still haven't replied with engine info, so still the waiting game.
1. Will he pay half your costs of removing the engine?
2. Thats a big 'if'
3. Is that half 'their' cost or half they would normally charge for a rebuild?
4. So the solicitors a mechanic too?
5. It will take longer you can be sure of that, legals charge by the hour and by the stamp! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:( :( s:(
6. As your looking to sell it anyway I guess you have to look at its current value as it stands or stripped (added hassle/time?) against the cost of fixing it up and its value as a runner?
7. (most important) is the hoover on its way s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Its a bit off to say "well if we find we've messed it up we'll only charge you half to put right what we should have done in the first place!"
I'm surprised they didn't say "well you only asked for our Level 1, don't worry i'm selling it on rebuild" rather than their "Level 2, this ones a keeper rebuild"
Are you sure they didn't just gunk and jet wash your engine and put it back in?
Hoover still sat in box at front door!
They didn't turn up Monday, so I thought they'd come Tuesday...
Not I had to ring, so should be picked up today.
I will let you know as soon as it's picked up.
Not worth replacing it as it will cost a grand to do the swap,
Plus I'd have to keep for 6months to make sure it didn't fail again!
Thy only offered for half the rebuild cost no labour costs.
So basically £400 off... Rubbish.
They said after they saw the paperwork, so I'm guessing they didn't like my service receipts?
As it just says 500 mile free service tick and 3500 free service tick plus a stamp in my service history book.
Still waiting on reply from Toyota as I'm hoping that it's slightly wrong
After speaking to Toyota Specialist Helpline at £1.50 a minute...
I have found a few things out.
The MR2 has a 1ZZ-FE engine not 1ZZ-FED, the MR-S has 1ZZ-FED.
Also the cyclinders bores have a glazing on them, and if during a rebuild they try and polish the cyclinder it instantly becomes scrap metal.
You will have oil loss and the oil will be thinned out by petrol... also there will be scoring on the cylinder bores.
Neither of which help me s:-( :-( s:-(
But ends the 1ZZ-FE(D) debate.
The offer made is unreasonable because it requires you to undertake things which need expert knowledge (ie remove the engine).
You could acknowledge but reject the offer and tell them you will get an expert written third party opinion on the state of the engine from say the AA or RAC.
This will of course cost and it's easy to sit here and spend other peoples money!
You also will have a pm.
if all goes wrong and you get nowhere with a claim against them. if you bring it to me i will take out the engine and strip it down for you. its the only way to find out if it the wrong engine, by measuring the valves. however i did look into it a bit and as long as it did not come from an avensis the engine would be the correct type.
Quote from: "ginger1"After speaking to Toyota Specialist Helpline at £1.50 a minute...
I have found a few things out.
The MR2 has a 1ZZ-FE engine not 1ZZ-FED, the MR-S has 1ZZ-FED.
Also the cyclinders bores have a glazing on them, and if during a rebuild they try and polish the cyclinder it instantly becomes scrap metal.
You will have oil loss and the oil will be thinned out by petrol... also there will be scoring on the cylinder bores.
Neither of which help me s:-( :-( s:-(
But ends the 1ZZ-FE(D) debate.
not fully convinced, toyota themselves make oversize pistons for rebuild. Any overbore to allow there use will also remove that coating
Quote from: "markiii"Quote from: "ginger1"After speaking to Toyota Specialist Helpline at £1.50 a minute...
I have found a few things out.
The MR2 has a 1ZZ-FE engine not 1ZZ-FED, the MR-S has 1ZZ-FED.
Also the cyclinders bores have a glazing on them, and if during a rebuild they try and polish the cyclinder it instantly becomes scrap metal.
You will have oil loss and the oil will be thinned out by petrol... also there will be scoring on the cylinder bores.
Neither of which help me s:-( :-( s:-(
But ends the 1ZZ-FE(D) debate.
not fully convinced, toyota themselves make oversize pistons for rebuild. Any overbore to allow there use will also remove that coating
Agreed, considering people on this forum has rebored, overbored, and honed bores the Toyota words do not stack up.
The fact that Toyota themselves supply pistons in sizes to deal with rebores just rubishes that "Technical" explanation you've been given.
I just thought I'd meantion what they advised :-) :-) :-)
I thought they overbored and supplied correct (undersized) pistons?
I'm still thinking my car will end up being sold as parts...
I keep thinking about doing it myself but I think I'd rather just have less money and hassle so I can by a car sooner.
Not used to this walking lark!
Breaking is an option, as you probably know, Ive broken a few. The older cars are worth more in bits than together, even with a kn*ckered engine. Its around 100 hours to strip right down. If you have time and basic tools, plus storage space/ understanding neighbours, its a win-win as you learn loads about the car, and can keep the best bits for your next 2. s:) :) s:)
Alternatively you could just list it on fleabay with a 99p start and let it go. They are making good money with duff engines. I cant buy one to save my life at the mo.
Thanks mate,
I keep looking at it but I don't know enough, and space is limited.
Your offer was a little on the low side s:-( :-( s:-(
If I can get some money back off the company then I can let it go for cheaper.
or I could strip some easy bits off?
Will have to chat to you about it anyway.
Just need to wait for a reply, roll on 7 days
Im not allowed to deal on here. I understand the mods are looking at it though. Your car should make £800 plus on ebay, but dont forget the 10% plus possible 2.5% plus entry fees.
I know mate, shame though have only ever had good dealings with you in the past.
I'll get in touch not on here after I've found out the resolution with this company.
I still can't believe eBay charge 10% on the sale of a car, crazy.
People need to discover pistonheads, shame that's not free anymore
Actually, now I think, it might be a sliding scale for the more expensive stuff, stepped down as price gets higher.
If it helps, I have just sold a car on e-bay for £3200 and been charged a listing fee of about £18 and £31.87(???) which is about 1%, based on final sale price.
That's not bad at all considering the volume of people that use it.
I wouldn't be so lucky though I'd make £80 and they'd take £100 with the way my luck is going!