Having decided that new suspension is the cheaper option long term. I can see that the BC Coilovers on the BC-Racing website come as:
BR Series Coilover : Type RA £769.00
4/6 Kg/mm
5/7 Kg/mm
and
BR Series Coilover : Type RA £799.00
5/7 Kg/mm
There is a £30 difference between RA and RH to give pillow ball rear top mounts, any advantage? Perhaps more importantly what about the spring rates? What should I go for? I am not planning to do any track day racing.
Thanks
Carl.
4kg/mm is 224lb/in
5kg/mm is 280lb/in
Personally, if it's a road car, not a track car, and you value your spine, I'd go with the lower rates.
But that's just me.
I have experience on the higher spring rates and agree for a road car go for the lower rate. As for the pillow ball top mounts, it's debatable if they're required but my rubber ones were perishing after 2-3 years.
sent from a planet somewhere nearby
pillow ball mounts are definately worth it
Quote from: "markiii"pillow ball mounts are definately worth it
Obviously I switched to the rear pilloball mounts ... they are the bees knees s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Having checked, the lower 4/6 springs are the same stiffness as my last set of BCs on a car weighing about 25% more.
They were about as stiff as I'd want to go on the road. With the dampers at their softest it felt a bit underdamped, about 4 clicks in sorted that bit the ride was 'uncomfortable'.
Loved the ease with which the rear damping could be turned up for a more pointy track set up. As it was a road car I couldn't really run as much front camber as I'd have liked.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Quote from: "markiii"pillow ball mounts are definately worth it
Obviously I switched to the rear pilloball mounts ... they are the bees knees s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
They are standard on Tein. s:D :D s:D s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "doogz"Loved the ease with which the rear damping could be turned up for a more pointy track set up.
You can do that inside the car with Tein without lifting the lid. s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "FGrob"Quote from: "doogz"Loved the ease with which the rear damping could be turned up for a more pointy track set up.
You can do that inside the car with Tein without lifting the lid. s:D :D s:D
For an additional £300 on top of the Tein suspension s:scared: :scared: s:scared: simply over-priced for avoiding stopping, getting off your ar$e and manually adjusting the damping.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Quote from: "FGrob"Quote from: "doogz"Loved the ease with which the rear damping could be turned up for a more pointy track set up.
You can do that inside the car with Tein without lifting the lid. s:D :D s:D
For an additional £300 on top of the Tein suspension s:scared: :scared: s:scared: simply over-priced for avoiding stopping, getting off your ar$e and manually adjusting the damping.
Nic - you can't do that when your are going down the motorway at 70 mph in a cross wind. Any way if I'm spending £1800 on the shocks a further £300 no big deal s:D :D s:D
I have the 4/6 set up and would ideally like to change the fronts for something about 50lb lighter at the front.
The 5/7 would be mental on the road.
I had the 4/6 setup on mine and they were plenty stiff enough for me, certainly wouldn't have wanted to go any further. I think I had the dampers set to about 4 and 8 from softest (out of 32).
I've got 5/7 ... but then I'm slightly unstable apparently s:lol: :lol: s:lol: muwahahaha.
Saying that I was probably the first adopter and didn't know any better ... I do have my dampers set a fair but higher than those of you with the lighter springs. Given the choice I would have happily gone with those lighter springs, but like I said I didn't know any better.
The construction of the BC's is really good and they do last well, just the British weather and our addiction to road salt cakes up the threads making adjustments a nightmare. Saying that spares are very reasonably priced and quickly available. The "spanners" for locking the rings are pretty light-weight, but as lo9ng as you don't over do things pretty adequate for the job. The 5/7's are pretty harsh when coupled with crap roads like we have in Yorkshire and I'm sure they've contributed to destroying two sets of 2's-r-us droplinks, and two sets of Whiteline droplinks. I'm not running the RoC links but haven't put many miles on them.
Quote from: "FGrob"Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Quote from: "FGrob"You can do that inside the car with Tein without lifting the lid. s:D :D s:D
For an additional £300 on top of the Tein suspension s:scared: :scared: s:scared: simply over-priced for avoiding stopping, getting off your ar$e and manually adjusting the damping.
Nic - you can't do that when your are going down the motorway at 70 mph in a cross wind. Any way if I'm spending £1800 on the shocks a further £300 no big deal s:D :D s:D
You adjust your dampers when it's windy, to compensate? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "doogz"Quote from: "FGrob"Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"For an additional £300 on top of the Tein suspension s:scared: :scared: s:scared: simply over-priced for avoiding stopping, getting off your ar$e and manually adjusting the damping.
Nic - you can't do that when your are going down the motorway at 70 mph in a cross wind. Any way if I'm spending £1800 on the shocks a further £300 no big deal s:D :D s:D
You adjust your dampers when it's windy, to compensate? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Oh man you really have not had a 2 long enough have you s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
Quote from: "FGrob"Quote from: "doogz"Quote from: "FGrob"Nic - you can't do that when your are going down the motorway at 70 mph in a cross wind. Any way if I'm spending £1800 on the shocks a further £300 no big deal s:D :D s:D
You adjust your dampers when it's windy, to compensate? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Oh man you really have not had a 2 long enough have you s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
I fail to see what that has to do with it?
If i feel the car being pushed to one side by the wind, there's this big round device I use to correct it. And I've driven mine in high winds, it doesn't affect my MR2 nearly as much as it does my 4x4, or my old lorry.
He's probably driven more miles in his than you have in yours though Rob s:D :D s:D
I have been running the BCs for about 4 years, and over 25,000 miles now. I chose the 4/6 spring rates and they are as stiff as you would want for road use, about twice as stiff as stock springs. The damping quality is good for a budget aftermarket suspension kit, certainly better than stock and the car now deals with surfaces that would induce patter and deflection off line on stock suspension.
A road setup to your tastes should be easy enough to achieve with a little testing. The only time I have adjusted away from the settings I normally use is when on a wet track, where I softened the damping at both ends a little. The Tein edfc is ok if you want to adjust the car often, but once you find the spot where damping and springing match, you will likely just leave it there.
The pillowball top mounts are very good, but be aware that you will introduce more road noise into the car with them.
The other consideration to make is that if you go for 4/6 springs, you will need to stiffen the shell with some bracing. At the very least you will want a strut brace on the front and a breastplate underneath as the stiffer spring rates really work the shell harder.
Chris
If it's windy I adjust my driving style, not my suspension ... that's just being daft and doing it because you can, I doubt it makes any real difference to how hard the wind is blowing s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:P :P s:P And for £2100 you should be darned well able to adjust them from inside the car, but I object to paying that ridiculous amount of money on suspension when all I have to do is either adjust my driving style, or stop and get out to make adjustments.
There's a difference between owning an MR2 and driving an MR2 don't you know? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Anyway, back to subject, the BC's are darned good value for money, imho the Tein suspension is overpriced and falls down in regards to adjust-ability when compared with BC's. I strongly recommend the lower spring rates for road use and definitely get the pillowball topmounts for the rears ... for the price it's daft not to really.
I seem to be continually scolded for taking things off topic since I joined here, but what's one more time...
Does anyone know the standard spring rates for the MR2?
Ta
Quote from: "doogz"I seem to be continually scolded for taking things off topic since I joined here, but what's one more time...
Does anyone know the standard spring rates for the MR2?
Ta
From memory, 1.9 front, 2.9 rear.
Chris
So let me sum this up
1. I've wasted money on something I think is far superior.
2. I don't do enough miles on my car (20,000) - I always thought it's not volume that counts but quality.
3. I don't understand how the 2 performs
4. My car too clean
I'm not sure why I bother to be honest. Oh well never mind. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Oh to put this back on track.
I run 4 front 5 back (the back being twin springs per coilover) Gives a nice ride for me in the short time I use it.
Regards
Rob
FGrob, I don't think that's really what anyone has said.
Although you haven't answered me about your adjustable damping rates, and how you use them when driving.
Would you? Do you actually alter rates from side to side when driving in a crosswind?
Chris, as low as that? I didn't think it felt that soft tbh.
Guys you are making me laugh but scaring me a little too. Approx £800 is quite a lot of money to turn my MR2 into harsh uncomfortable ride. Some comments are along the lines of 4/6 is the 'highest' that I should go but it seems like 4/6 is the lowest that BC have available and I am not sure if the rear pillowball is availabe in this configuration. I am really only looking at BC because they would give me an easier route to replace the existing dampers and have an adjustable height so I can lower a little. I can still go the OEM or KYB route if that is going to give me a better ride as my primary use is just everyday road.
Should I be looking at other options?In response to some other points:
* I have fitted front and rear strut braces (that is how I got into this dilemma
http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=39687)
* I am on the list for the group buy on the Mattperformance TTE style underbody brace.[/list]
I really appreciate the responses from everybody and I
value the fact that different members are coming at this from different perspectives both in their setups and their usage.
Many thanks
Carl.
Quote from: "FGrob"So let me sum this up
1. I've wasted money on something I think is far superior.
- Superior is a point of view, not an exact science, to me they're not superior ... they're just an expensive alternative, but if you like them then great s:D :D s:D but the OP may not want to spend that kind of money and probably wont make adjustments once he's found that happy spot.Quote from: "FGrob"2. I don't do enough miles on my car (20,000) - I always thought it's not volume that counts but quality.
I've experienced your driving Rob, quality is always dependant upon your point of view s:P :P s:P s:wink: :wink: s:wink: . But lack of miles covered doesn't really demonstrate if a product is good at surviving a life on the road in all conditions.Quote from: "FGrob"3. I don't understand how the 2 performs
- I don't believe a single person has said that, calm down and keep off the coffee s:wink: :wink: s:wink: Quote from: "FGrob"4. My car too clean
- You should know by now we're all just jealous s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:P :P s:P s:wink: :wink: s:wink: Quote from: "FGrob"I'm not sure why I bother to be honest. Oh well never mind. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
- Because it wouldn't be the same without you s:D :D s:D Quote from: "FGrob"I run 4 front 5 back (the back being twin springs per coilover) Gives a nice ride for me in the short time I use it.
- Great, a good bit of experience shared there s:D :D s:D TBH, you can always go with the KYB's, with new topmounts and maybe new springs. It's a bit more work and requires spring compressors but they do give a very nice day-to-day feel. I'm not sure if that's any cheaper than the BC's though.
Carl, the only real way to see what you think is to go out in another member's car who is running the BCs. They are a lot stiffer than stock, but they worked well on my daily driver and only rarely felt "too stiff". In contrast, I'd say the stock suspension felt "too soft" far more often. There's no subtext when I say I wouldn't want to go stiffer than the 4/6, I think they're stiff, but about right for the road s:) :) s:)
Thanks for the comments on this topic guys. I'm definitely going to swap the bc's I have now with 5/8 springs. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I've just been to Apex Performance to get the springs changed for softer 4/6. A tour around the warehouse and a look over the skyline drift car they run. Great customer service.
Quote from: "Jaik"Carl, the only real way to see what you think is to go out in another member's car who is running the BCs. They are a lot stiffer than stock, but they worked well on my daily driver and only rarely felt "too stiff". In contrast, I'd say the stock suspension felt "too soft" far more often. There's no subtext when I say I wouldn't want to go stiffer than the 4/6, I think they're stiff, but about right for the road s:) :) s:)
I got the prices from Toyota to replace a few nuts and the suspension plates just for the front top damper mounting - £230. So I reckon, based on other prices that I found, that to do a complete refresh of front and rear OEM parts is going to go to around £1200. Apex have been very responsive and helpful so I am going for BCs with 4/6 kg/mm with pillowball front and rubber rear plus a soft cushion to put on the driver's seat s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Thanks for everyone's input.
Don't forget you'll have the extra cash you saved from going OEM to cushion your backside s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "AckersMR2"Don't forget you'll have the extra cash you saved from going OEM to cushion your backside s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
You are right! £400 is 80 five pound notes, 40 x £5 in each back pocket makes a nice cushion. 400 pounds coins could be a bit tough though s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:
Quote from: "Two's Company"I've just been to Apex Performance to get the springs changed for softer 4/6. A tour around the warehouse and a look over the skyline drift car they run. Great customer service.
They're a brilliant bunch aren't they! s:D :D s:D
I just wish they did more stuff for our cars.
One thing they showed me is Hardcase suspension arms. Look similar to the che items and even the same colour. Could be an option for more local items.
Quote from: "Two's Company"One thing they showed me is Hardcase suspension arms. Look similar to the che items and even the same colour. Could be an option for more local items.
If only they would publish what's available on their website s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Yes they mainly cater for nissan and subarus. Other than BC's they said main things they can get for MR2 is Ksport braked, EBC and Hardcase. Seems they could offer suspension parts in makes popular on skylines and scoobs.
It's actually hardrace ... found them via Google and they look like someone else selling the Che kit with their own name on them...
m http://www.hardrace.co.uk/productsf710. ... rClass3=87 (http://www.hardrace.co.uk/productsf710.html?strClass1=20&strClass2=47&strClass3=87) m
I suppose as the part numbers are on the Hardrace website then Apex could get us a price.
I'll drop an email to Hardrace and see how their prices compare ... looks like they're UK based.
Stupid predictive text when on phone!
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"It's actually hardrace ... found them via Google and they look like someone else selling the Che kit with their own name on them...
m http://www.hardrace.co.uk/productsf710. ... rClass3=87 (http://www.hardrace.co.uk/productsf710.html?strClass1=20&strClass2=47&strClass3=87) m
I suppose as the part numbers are on the Hardrace website then Apex could get us a price.
I'll drop an email to Hardrace and see how their prices compare ... looks like they're UK based.
£136.78 inc vat per pair of arms according to the price list I've just received.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Quote from: "Two's Company"I've just been to Apex Performance to get the springs changed for softer 4/6. A tour around the warehouse and a look over the skyline drift car they run. Great customer service.
They're a brilliant bunch aren't they! s:D :D s:D
I just wish they did more stuff for our cars.
I paid for them on Tuesday and they turned up on Wednesday - I can't fault Apex for delivery or customer service. They chatted through the options and recommended the Pillowball fronts and Rubber rears for my more casual road use. Also some praise for Camskill, I ordered a set of front and rear drop links, explained that I needed them for the weekend, they called me today to explain that their supplier had sent the wrong front drop links and that they would get the right ones to me on Friday or dispatch for a Saturday delivery at their cost if there was any delay, that is good customer service from them too. (I know that I can get by with just the rears but I want to replace all of them while I have the wheels off and everything in pieces). Fingers crossed I should have it all done on the weekend.
(http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg601/carlclarke/IMG_8062.jpg)
Just adding this as it will be useful to anyone searching BC Coilovers.
Front camber is adjustable using the top-mounts.
Rear camber is adjustable using the slotted hole for the hub top mounting bolt.
No need for fancy camber arms, crash bolts, or Ingalls quick cams.
Any more views on the BC kit?
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I have the inverted RMs and they are stiff but great with extra bracing and uprated anti roll bars. Virtually zero roll now and goes round corners as fast as your brain can keep up. As an everyday car the ride is a bit harder than I'd like but worth the compromise when you get to some decent roads.
Still going strong with mine.
As above extra bracing, uprated arb's it's firm but handling is formidable.
Mine are BR series with pillow ball rears top mounts added.
Can't fault quality and after sales support is excellent s:D :D s:D
How to they cope with bumps, dips, crests - ignoring poor road surfaces but undulating roads? Do they feel like they have enough travel?
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I have the softer 4/6 spring combination and they are great on undulating roads. The 5/7 set up that Wabbitkilka runs is more stiffly sprung. It's only town driving on badly surfaced roads where they are a PITA. Then again so is an s-line suspended Audi which has harder suspension that the BCs a lot of the time. On the M62 between Manchester and Liverpool the surface is very undulated and the audis I have been in crash and bang all over the place. The MR2 takes them fine in comparison.
I think it depends on tyre choice as well because I run Toyos so there is some give in the tyre sidewalls too.
It depends what you use your car for, as a daily driver with mainly city driving with speedbumps etc I would probably go with softer suspension. The standard shocks with Tein springs was pretty much a perfect compromise. I hated the BCs at first but they settle down after a few thousand miles.
Track days and the occasional commute if weathers too bad for motorbike, commute is countryside A & B roads that can be driven fast, hence wanting to make sure they can cope with undulations, bumps mid bend etc. Car at present is great on these roads but rolls a bit on track. Last owner put Kyb excelG? dampers on which still look like new (ride quality is great) and I think just the standard springs, they are super rusty and look like they need replacing now, dust boots are basically non-existent. ARB's are also very rusty and due to the roll and some chaps I see at track days saying the best mod they ever did to their 2ZZ roadster was whiteline arbs I'm thinking do full refresh. I have a ultra racing front brace already, no others as don't want to add weight if it can be avoided, have a T45 harness bar that possibly helps a bit.
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The BCs would suit that driving. I have the Che ARBs too and virtually no roll now. You need an underbody brace with the BCs because they work the shell harder and there is too must flex without one. I have a corky MSMB and trd front strut. Feels like a much bigger more controlled car with that lot.
Just looked up the Corkey's brace, what was shipping like for that? Like that its aluminium so not to heavy.
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Not sure because i bought it used from here. I know they are very expensive for a new one. It combines the corky breast plate with the TTE style brace. One off Matt performance is the alternative which I believe keeps the standard bits under it.
Ordered the Matt Performance brace and front and rear Whiteline ARB's, fitted rear ARB today. Was going to see how I felt about just that, got a trackday on 24th to test it out, if ok was going to leave it at that however just tonight sold my forged MX5 engine that's been sat in the garage so may go for some of the RM's :-) :-) :-)
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Just ordered BC BR type RH coilovers with 4kg/mm and 6kg/mm springs Any suggestions as the a good starting point clicks wise and optimal ride height? Isn't there a difference in pre face lift and facelift standard heights? Pre facelift being lower? I may start with pre facelift ride height as sure I read post facelift was only to aid pedestrian safety tests? Any idea what that is?
Lots of questions :-) :-) :-)
I'm interested to know how they work with the AD08 tyres.
Maybe of interest, BC's offer a bit of a weight saving as well.
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20bc%20front%20weight.jpg)
BC front 5.2 kg x 2 = 10.4kg
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20BC%20rear%20weight.jpg)
BC rear 5.3kg x 2 = 10.6kg
BC Total 21kg
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20weight%20front%20damper%20unit%20standard.jpg)
Standard front 5.8kg x 2 = 11.6kg
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20weight%20standard%20rear%20damper%20unit.jpg)
Standard rear 6.6kg x 2 = 13.2kg
Total standard = 24.8kg
Saving 3.8kg
Quote from: "steve b"Just ordered BC BR type RH coilovers with 4kg/mm and 6kg/mm springs Any suggestions as the a good starting point clicks wise and optimal ride height? Isn't there a difference in pre face lift and facelift standard heights? Pre facelift being lower? I may start with pre facelift ride height as sure I read post facelift was only to aid pedestrian safety tests? Any idea what that is?
Lots of questions :-) :-) :-)
There is a topic elsewhere - 'Ride Height' http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?&p=474410
I have BCs and mine is set to 33cm apex of wheel arch to wheel centre, that seems to clear most speed bumps unless you driver over them too quickly. Out of the box they were about 2cm lower and it grounded easily.
Ride wise they are quite hard and I set them one or two clicks above softest (you are supposed to start at hard and click down rather than soft and click up) for my everyday road use. I didn't really enjoy the hard ride at first but now it just makes the car feel planted, I had a Matt Performance under-body brace fitted after fitting the BCs and that made a big difference.
I'm in the market for BCs, sorry for reviving the thread.
I'm a bit confused on all the model numbers.
As far as I understand there are three types,
1) basic, has camber adjusters on rear, but not on front
2) mid, as above but with camber adjusters on front
3) best, as above but also inverted shocks
All with a choice of spring rates, I understand the lighter springs are preferred?
Is that correct, if so what's the name convention all about?
What is recommendation, basic ones good enough for the mr2?