Does anyone have any experience with it? Lots of cash but thinking it maybe a worthwhile upgrade as i'm a trackday regular. Should also weigh a fair bit less than standard, my old AP 4 pots on my VX were feather light..
Is it definate you need to go to 16" wheels?
It's been debated a few times whether the big brake kits are worth anything on the MR2.
The standard brakes, in good condition, are excellent and can be improved with braided brake lines and decent fluid.
It's normal to need bigger wheels to fit big brake kits ... because the brakes are bigger than standard (go figure).
If you're hung up on Big Brakes, have a look as the KSport packages too m http://www.ksport.co.uk/order.asp?id=344&loc=2 (http://www.ksport.co.uk/order.asp?id=344&loc=2) m they're a bit different and give you options for different sized wheels. Worth calling them for a chat as the guys are very experienced and happy to help.
What bugs me mainly about BB kits is that it's fine replacing the fronts, but really to balance the car you need to replace all four, and it's nigh on impossible to get rears with MOT approved mechanical handbrakes. Unless you want to get some fabricated that is ... then you're talking money.
Yes the stock brakes are good with carbotech pads which do seem to be lasting ok, the APs should drop quite a bit of weight from an important area as well as giving a bit better modulation I'd hope. Opens up a much wider range of reasonably priced good pads as well.
I don't think the balance will be that much altered as long as high friction pads are used on the rear. I tested this theory by running carbotech pads front only for a trackday then the next day fitted the rears, braking was slightly more stable but not dramatic. Standard to carbotech on the front made a huge difference.
Not heard of K sport are they just bling rather than a quality proven brake? £1000 cheaper than the APs...
K sport are very good, there suspension kits a excellent and basically the same as BC racing stuff iirc?
Also I have a D2 8pot conversion on my mr2 and it's brilliant
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"It's been debated a few times whether the big brake kits are worth anything on the MR2.
The standard brakes, in good condition, are excellent and can be improved with braided brake lines and decent fluid.
It's normal to need bigger wheels to fit big brake kits ... because the brakes are bigger than standard (go figure).
If you're hung up on Big Brakes, have a look as the KSport packages too m http://www.ksport.co.uk/order.asp?id=344&loc=2 (http://www.ksport.co.uk/order.asp?id=344&loc=2) m they're a bit different and give you options for different sized wheels. Worth calling them for a chat as the guys are very experienced and happy to help.
What bugs me mainly about BB kits is that it's fine replacing the fronts, but really to balance the car you need to replace all four, and it's nigh on impossible to get rears with MOT approved mechanical handbrakes. Unless you want to get some fabricated that is ... then you're talking money.
+1
Bear in mind that most braking is carried out by friction between tyre and road, and the greatest braking effort happens just before the wheels stop turning, Thats why ABS works! Bigger brakes will not change any of that.
The job of the brake pad/disc is to convert rotating enregy into heat, and that is largely based on inertia or the weight of the car, speed has a reducing factor (because you are slowing down). To put it into persepective the Mondeo repmobile has the same size front disk as a Mk3 but the weight of the car, not to mention the weight distribution is entirely different.
Bigger brakes may dissapapate heat a little quicker but if they fill the wheel, there will be less air getting to them.
IMHO Big brake kits have a bling factor, and thats about it. A good set of rubber on the road and well maintained calipers, with braided lines and perhaps better pads will pay dividends.
To reinforce something said above, its the balance between front and rear that needs to be right to cope with the weight transfer. MR2 Mk3 discs are larger at the rear (263mm) than the front (255mm) unlike just about every front engined car!
Don't play with brakes unless you really know what you are doing.
Spend your money on rubber on the road, not bling.
One of my previous cars was an MR2 Mk2 Turbo. The previous owner was a well respected community member who had modded it nicely for track work but the brakes were a disaster.
It may not compare exactly but bigger brakes at the front had ruined the rears causing them to lock up early. It was a combination of weight transfer and brake bias. Going into corners backwards was no fun at all. I chased a cure for ages without success and then blew the engine!
Anyway, lesson learnt so I've stayed standard with just track fluid and pads on the Mk3. Much, much better unless you are chasing the last tenth on track.
My old car has shown up on PH at 16k having had 30k poured into it to go racing in Super GT!
m http://mobile.pistonheads.com/sales/4105929.htm (http://mobile.pistonheads.com/sales/4105929.htm) m
Quote from: "dj2k21"Also I have a D2 8pot conversion on my mr2 and it's brilliant
You've not experience any issue with them as others have alluded to?
Must say my Elise / VX220 experience doesn't follow the problems mention in the thread. Lotus track pack includes an AP 4 pot upgrade and larger discs for example at the front no change to the rear.
I also went big AP discs and calliper spaced back on my VX220 up front and that was perfect.
I'm sure everyone's experience is going to be different regarding bb kits. Thu I would like better calipers with opposed pistons if I wanted to spend the money, but I find my brakes are great and the cost for fabrication prohibitive.
I just think that you should really balance front big brakes with rear big brakes. But then I'm a person who likes balance.
sent from a planet somewhere nearby
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"I just think that you should really balance front big brakes with rear big brakes. But then I'm a person who likes balance.
I agree. I did that on my old car and the results were epic. (AP 4-pots front, AP 2-pots rear)
I've not experienced any issues at all with my brakes, my friend has stop techs on his civic and they are apparently self bias balancing, not sure how that works though
So the person with direct experience of a front brake upgrade says the setup works well, those without say it'll cause problems :-/
The mk3 is very similar in many ways to a late S2 Elise, only a little bit heavier. The Elise has 288mm discs all round single pot rears like ours but AP 2 or 4 pots up front and regularly bigger discs 295 or 304 being the most popular put on the front. My upgrade to 295mm was one of the best upgrades I did with the VX, I ran Exige wheels with 195 tyres instead of the skinny less track focused Elise setup, the MR2 I'm running AD08 205's on the front. Mirroring the way the Lotus setup goes and using it as a guide, it'd appear for a more track focused car the MR2 is a bit under braked. I've taken the MR2 on track every month i've had it running (6) now, so I'm not thinking of a brake upgrade for bling reasons. Car is running over 190bhp as well so I'm arriving at bends faster than a standard engined car is likely to as well.
Anyone else got a kit fitted? It appears K-sport use AP's discs from 304 upwards, 304 AP kit requires 16" wheels so presumably the smallest K-sport would fit under 15".
I think you're taking us a bit too seriously there, we're only questioning its effectiveness and whether it upsets the balance of the car.
It's always subjective as we all have different driving styles, I only suggested the K-Sports as an alternative that might offer you more options and the possibility of keeping standard wheel sizes. If you do it, then please let us know how you get on and how it all behaves afterwards.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"I think you're taking us a bit too seriously there, we're only questioning its effectiveness and whether it upsets the balance of the car.
It's always subjective as we all have different driving styles, I only suggested the K-Sports as an alternative that might offer you more options and the possibility of keeping standard wheel sizes. If you do it, then please let us know how you get on and how it all behaves afterwards.
Oh it is appreciated :-) :-) :-)
I'd never heard of K sport before and so trying to find out more info, I have been in touch with them. Kits have changed and their website out if date. Now only the 356mm kit uses AP spec discs, that I agree is too big. My worry is that if they are in house discs supply may not be great in the future. So waiting to see if they use Alcon sizes now ..
The much cheaper cost of the k-sports does appeal. In regular AP / Alcon sizes 304mm would be the biggest I'd go, 295 would probably be idea and is cheaper as a popular size.
One thing not mentioned yet is the volume of the master cylinder relative to the various slaves.
Not a massive issue as the brake pads don't move very far but it could have an effect on pedal travel and feel.
Quote from: "Steve Green"One thing not mentioned yet is the volume of the master cylinder relative to the various slaves.
Not a massive issue as the brake pads don't move very far but it could have an effect on pedal travel and feel.
The difference is probably very marginal tbh, there is a fair amount of room for changes when you consider how oem flexi pipes end up expanding under pressure.
I quite liked Matts setup of Elise brakes on the MR2, something I would consider if it were the right price.
I found the brake pedal feel massively improved with the race calipers - with stock brakes the pedal is spongy, even with braided hoses the flex is transferred to the bulkhead, whereas with the big calipers you don't push the pedal so hard so there is no flex and the feel is really good.
My car had 304 front and 288 rear which was a really balanced set-up on track IMO, and because of the twin pot rears meant there was considerably more braking effort at the rear than there would have been with stock calipers/ discs at the back. My suspension was mega hard which will have had a significant impact on weight transfer.
I think it's fair to say that no-one knows the answer to your question. One person has big brakes on the front (road car) and says it's great. One person had big brakes on front and back (track) and says it's great (well, epic actually). The only drawbacks for me were the cost of the AP rotors and the extra cost of converting the handbrake to hydraulic for the rear upgrade. The new project will be following a similar formula but it's still a few months away...
and still the control tower?
sorry couldn't resist s:D :D s:D
Let's just say that many lessons have been learned from the "old" car s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
K Sport 286mm 6 pot kit with Pagid RS4-2 pads turned up today :-) :-) :-)
Looks all well put together very comprehensive kits calipers look massive, weigh in at 2010g each how does that compare to stock steel calipers?
Will weigh everything when I do the swap :-) :-) :-)
Great news. Did u go for a rear kit too? Thats on the cards for me when the wider rims go on the back I think
Taken from 22b forum, posted by John Felstead who's business prepares and manages racing cars. interesting reading.
Key to brakes is getting the disk bulk temperature into the working range of the disk material and pad material, and keeping it there, plus keeping the caliper and fluid in it's working range. Correct disk Bulk temperature and pad temperature is something not easy to achieve on a road or sprint car, far easier to achieve on a race car. Outside the working range (both too hot and too cold) you get much higher disk and pad wear rates, ignoring the issues with coeficiant of friction changes as the disks and pads heat up.
With regards to the K sports, you may have 8 pots, but the surface area of those 8 pots is almost identical to the WRX 4 pot and less than OEM Brembo's. The K sports have two small leading pistons working on the area of the pad that provides the main performance of the pad, which will give less bite from the pad than the larger leading 4 pot piston. You will get a better performance from a 6 pot caliper with properly stepped diferential pistons. The equivilent D2 6 pot caliper has larger piston surface area and a larger leading piston than the 8 pot K sport, so gives better initial bite and more brake force for the same pedal pressure.
AP 6 pots have better differential piston sizing than both the K sport and D2, with 3 piston sizes in use to ensure the pressure on the pad is well matched to the requirement to provide less taper wear and give a better match to the required pressure increase as you move away from the leading edge of the pad, which is where all the work occurs. The D2 6 pot has 2 small and 4 large pistons per caliper, so the pressure required is less well distributed than the AP, but not too far away, the K sport has 4 small and 4 large pistons per caliper, which gives a less even pressure match accross the pad length. This means the AP will give the better brake feel and modultion, with the D2 6 pot next, the K sport a bit further away.
With regards to piston surface area, pad surface and the total brake torque resulting from that, on a 330mm disk the D2 6 pot gives the most total brake torque, K sport next and then the AP 6 pot last. None of these give as much brake torque as a Brembo OEM caliper on a stock newage disk. Even a 356mm AP 6 pot kit gives less brake torque than an OEM Brembo setup. Where the AP, D2 and K sport win is in handling the elevated temperatures seen on track.
There are differences throughout the Subaru range with regards to the master cylinder bore size, and also pedal ratio, this will also influence the amount of force required at the pedal to give the required brake force. So a brake kit on a classic will work differently on a Newage STi, Newage WRX or Legacy. And we havn't touched on brake balance matching for the rears, or the way the ABS system will work when you change that balance.
I worked out the pad sizes and areas and posted them in another thread, the K sport 6 pot uses the identical pad to the AP 4 pot, it's a fair bit bigger than a stock pad.
I have the standard rear caliper and Carbotech pads, will see how I get on with them.
I will post some up close photos in the next few days and then when I fit them although that will be in about 10 days time as the cars going away to have its T45 rear cage put in tomorrow :-) :-) :-)
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Im thinking of ordering the rear d2 kit for a honda civic as they are 4 x 100 also and just modifying to suit. That way I keep d2 all round pkus their rebuild kits and pads are supplied by a p racing anyways so they are basically a cheap ap kit as far I can tell
That's interesting to know.
I have bought a CAD program and plan on teaching myself and making some brackets (have a slight issue of a Haematology MSc to pass before I start that distraction :-) :-) :-) ) 1st little project I think will be extender brackets for the standard calliper so I could stick some alloy belled Elise 288mm discs on the rear.
The thing to find would be a twin pot that has a cable handbrake then just make an adapter bracket to fit to whatever sized discs you want :-) :-) :-)
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Twin pot with cable handbrake would be a bmw e30 then s:) :) s:)
Just been looking and they appear to be single piston sliding caliper like our stock ones?
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Hmmm maybe it's e36 . I shal have a look
http://www.bigbrakes4u.co.uk/hi-spec-brakes/hi-spec-rear-sva-brake-calipers/hi-spec-sva-ultralite-2-sierra-lug-handbrake-caliper/prod_1306.html
Looks like HiSpec do a load of MOT passing rear calipers (to be properly MOT or SVA legal you need a cable operated handbrake).
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Steve I think I saw from your build thread that you had bought these brakes, but only just seen this thread.
The important thing is the ratio of master cylinder piston area and caliper piston area, as this determines the force on the pad. Pad area is largely to do with heat dissipation and has little bearing on force applied to the disc, since the larger the pad the lower the pressure over its surface, so overall braking effort is the same regardless of pad size.
The size of the 4/6 pot total piston area of an aftermarket caliper relative to the original single pot (x2 because it slides and acts as a twin) won't always be changed, but where it is changed this is most likely where any stopping distance improvement comes from (or conversely the problems other people mention if the calcs are incorrect/not done). This is because if the front to rear bias can be optimised to get all 4 tyres loaded to their maximum at the same time then this - as I'm sure you and most reading this know - results in best performance. If one end of the car locks first then the other tyres aren't working to the maximum and so the stop is slower. The reason it may not be optimised as standard by the OEM is because under normal braking conditions people use maybe 20-30% of the braking capacity, so there is only 20-30% of the load transfer to the front- so I would expect most systems as standard to be overly rear-biased when viewed from a peak performance point of view.
have a look at these http://www.phatboybrakes.com/PB-product-reviews.php Performance Ford magazine pages from "Phatboy Brakes". They are a manufacturer much like K-Sport. My theory is that the reason they see the improvement through each of the stages is that the front bias is being improved each time, so all 4 tyres work equally well.
You'll probably find the piston sizing and disc diameter of your K-Sports give slightly higher area and torque, so it should be quite easy to calculate how much change has been introduced from the disc diameter, and how much from the piston area. Do you fancy getting the vernier calipers out to get some rough sizes for us?
I shall get measuring :-) :-) :-)
The K Sport 6 pots have 2 x 34mm & a 24mm on each side of each calliper.
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Quote from: "steve b"The K Sport 6 pots have 2 x 34mm & a 24mm on each side of each calliper.
cool, that's equivalent to 53.75mm single slider/twin pot diameter.
Disk is 285mm, yeah? Any idea on pad depth? So I can calculate torque compared to stock
anyone got stock size piston/pad measurements for comparison?
Hi, pad is 132mm x 50mm, disc is 286mm.
Steve
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Stock front 116.6mm x 47mm, 255mm disc :-) :-) :-)
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13% more torque from disc diameter, let's see what the stock piston dia is to get a full comparison s:) :) s:)
m http://www.frenkit.es/docs/caliper.pdf (http://www.frenkit.es/docs/caliper.pdf) m
Doesn't say year but MR2 fronts are 36mm or 51mm.
Rear 44mm.
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only one I can see is 51mm, sounds about right s:) :) s:)
that gives 11% more force at the piston, plus 13% more torque equals 24% more front braking effort. That's quite a change!
*EDIT*
assuming equal bias as stock, and then front +24%:
1:1 = 1/(1+1) = 1/2 = 0.5 = 50% front
1.24:1 = 1.24/(1.24+1) = 1.24/2.24 = 0.55 = 55% front
so actually only 5% bias shift....
I'm looking forward to seeing your results on track Steve!
ok from rear piston and disc sizes I get:
Stock bias 55.4% front
k-sport bias 61.3% front
Thanks for the info Jonty :-) :-) :-) sounds like it will be fine.
yeah it sounds a sensible sort of figure. Static balance is 44.4% front from some measurements I saw in a quick search (480kg:600kg with driver, 20kg of tools and 1/2 full tank), so a 15% dynamic transfer doesn't sound that wild.
Jonty
(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/230313%20Ksport%20MR2Roadster%20kit%20boxed.jpg)
(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/230313%20Ksport%20MR2Roadster%20kit.jpg)
(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/230313%20Ksport%20MR2Roadster%20kit%20calliper%20and%20RS4-2%20side.jpg)
(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/230313%20Ksport%20MR2Roadster%20kit%20calliper%20and%20RS4-2.jpg)
(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/230313%20Ksport%20MR2Roadster%20kit%20calliper.jpg)
Are these on yet steve? Some initial thoughs? And if you have a weight for the caliper i'd be interested to hear!
Not on yet as the cars over at Nickson Motorsport, the calipers weigh :-
(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/230313%20Ksport%20MR2Roadster%20caliper%20weight.jpg)
plus the adapter bracket. Don't know what a standard caliper weighs, if steel which I think they are I'd have thought more.
Cool, that's pretty light! It'll be good to see them fitted to the car and also what Nickson has done s:) :) s:)
Nicks works going to be quite limited, posted about it here :-
l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39442&start=30 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39442&start=30) l
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ah yeah, I've just had a look- I'm happy to ditch the softop and also can trailer the car about if need be, so can drop the tank before getting this sort of work done- I have a cage in my 200sx and it makes such a huge difference to how it drives I don't think I'll ever have a track car that doesn't run a full cage on it's required modifications!
keep the posts coming in your build thread mate, it's cool to see progress!
Going to wait until after next track day before I give judgement on if front upgrade only works or not. Braking feels MASSIVELY more powerful at the front, only need very gentle pressure on the pedal (with old calipers and Carbotechs if I stamped on the pedal and tried to push it through the floor in the dry it wouldn't lock up). Now bit to hard on the pedal and its ABS galore, but on road I don't really have a reference point on if less pressure pulls the car up as fast. On my local track I will be able to tell easily as I know exactly where my old braking points were.
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(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/KsportsunderOZultraleggera15.jpg)
Think it is just a case of recalibrating my foot, you just need so little pressure for the same braking force :-) :-) :-)
Did 140 miles on track today in the spiss piss spiss ing rain, initially thought all wrong to much front bias, however after foot recalibration even in the wet my stopping distances were considerably shorter, biggest issue was shedding too much speed before the corner. Very little pressure is now required on the pedal, on standard callipers and Carbotechs I would push the pedal as hard as I could on track, now it's so, so little required you have to be much more measured and controlled as slightly to hard and it locks up. I think a rear upgrade to 2 pots will add a bit more balance so less likely to lock the fronts getting the rears doing some more work.
Anyway certainly an improvement if what you want is shorter stoping distances, also I did one 35minute session straight pushing hard as I could the whole time, brake felt same on the last lap as the 1st :-) :-) :-)
Overall very happy, except for the seriously loud ear aching squeeking they do when cold at town centre speeds, embarrassing loud, comparable to when you get a stone stuck between disc and pad.
:-) :-) :-)
Looks a good kit, and the prices are sensible too. That the AP pad shape is supported by many manufactures opens up many options, but what about the rotor? Is a replacement rotor easily sourced if Ksport stopped producing them?
Does anyone happen to know if the OEM 15" 5 spokes clear the caliper?
I asked that question when ordering and they assured me they would always be supported, Ksport going bust would be the only issue. If worst occurred a spacer on the calliper (easy as radial mount) and a slightly bigger AP disc could probably be used.
I don't think they'd fit under standard wheels. Ksport will email you a template to check, I think the spokes would hit.
Thanks for the reply. I thought it a long shot they would fit, and sadly the template has confirmed the spokes will clash with the caliper.
Quote from: "alackofspeed"Looks a good kit, and the prices are sensible too. That the AP pad shape is supported by many manufactures opens up many options, but what about the rotor? Is a replacement rotor easily sourced if Ksport stopped producing them?
Does anyone happen to know if the OEM 15" 5 spokes clear the caliper?
I think if its smaller diameter rotors, possible to fit (not 100 sure) but like mine, it may not be possible to fit even in 16" wheels.
Not sure of some of the rotor (brands). mine is a brembo GT kit (Gran Turismo) that was originally an option from brembo (305mm but discontinued). also the brembo GT rotors are ridiculously expensive. my option was to order customed rotors when the time comes for replacement. You need a proper shop who does that (specs & diameter size)
I think big brakes are excellent for those who do track. Could be overkill for those not indulging into serious drives. Good brake pads should be ok
but i would disagree that big brakes are just bling for the spyder. I certainly find they are great, a slightly shorter distance for stopping is certainty. agree with the comment that its also found in the lotus elise. (4 pot ap racing as standard)
Bit of an update - brilliant. Now my foots been recalibrated I don't have to think about braking, I just always have total confidence that they will haul me up lap after lap with no difference in feel. For road yes pointless, but for track you are missing out big time running standard brakes even if you have Carbotech or other high end pads, no more standing on the pedal trying to mash it through the floor to stop, makes heel and toe much easier again don't even need to think about it makes braking distances drop to Elise / Caterham distances. Not sure I'm bothered about a rear upgrade any more but no doubt will eventually :-) :-) :-) . Oh other benefit is pad life, my Pagid RS4-2' still have loads of life left in them :-) :-) :-)
Will these fit under standard 15's Steve?
Quote from: "mr-ed_smt"Will these fit under standard 15's Steve?
Quote from: "alackofspeed"Thanks for the reply. I thought it a long shot they would fit, and sadly the template has confirmed the spokes will clash with the caliper.
alackofspeed answered that one earlier, doesn't look like it - fit under my 15" OZ fine though.
Cheers Steve - clearly not read it as well as I thought! Good excuse for a new set of wheels then...
Sexy looking brakes!
Bit of a thread revival here but has anyone looked into freakyparts.co.uk, he sells will wood 4pot brake kits with 304mm discs for £540.
Quote from: "Sadlebag"Bit of a thread revival here but has anyone looked into freakyparts.co.uk, he sells will wood 4pot brake kits with 304mm discs for £540.
A kit for the roadster?
m http://www.freakyparts.co.uk/epages/es1 ... k3_Wilwood (http://www.freakyparts.co.uk/epages/es120337.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es120337_es124285571161/Products/MR2_Mk3_Wilwood) m
That's a good price.
Ohhh
Pretty good. Interested for that price. I need to spend £300 odd on disks and pads so it's not much more
Would be interested to know if you need to run 16's to make it fit?
Quote from: "MilesH"Would be interested to know if you need to run 16's to make it fit?
I was thinking about wheel size along with how to justify the expense when standard brakes are plenty good enough.
They can always be better s;) ;) s;) hehe
Need to speak to him but I think just having the calipers on standard discs will be a good enough upgrade. Calipers with the brackets are £420 I think.
Just enquired about stock levels, might have to buy a set now. Been after big brakes for a while.
I would say the disks are worth the extra though
We could see about a group buy, think he's done them before!
I would be interested in a group buy if you want to inquire, just looking at options that suit what I want. I have been looking at ap as well, and until this came up I was about set to buy.
I would be interested too, I'm sure there are a few others that might for that price (- group buy discount) too
Just to add, providing they fit under 16" wheels (ie my ROTAs)
I'll send Stewart a pm on Celica club see what he says, if it's goer I'll get a group buy set up s:) :) s:) .
Thanks!
Just got a reply from Stewart. This looks achievable...
Hello mate
Which kit are we talking about? The mk2 or mk3?
The kit we've already done is for the mk3 and comes with 296mm Avensis front discs. These should fit under 16" wheels.
For a group buy we would need an order of 5 to get a better price. Usually the discount is around 10%.
We can make anything for anything as we make all the custom parts in-house so if someone wanted the Superlite calipers and 2 piece discs we can sort that no problem.
If there was an order for 5, we'd need a 50% deposit to confirm the order, then the balance when the kits are ready to ship.
Leadtime are around 10 working days from last deposit received.
We did look at making a kit to fit the standard discs, but I don't think there was enough room between the lugs and the caliper to get a bracket in. If we're talking about the Mk3 I can ask my engineer to confirm this. If so the price would be around £60.00 cheaper as there's no discs included in it.
Let me know the responses and we'll go from there.
Thanks
Stewart
FreakyParts
Thanks for the update.
If it was 10% discount, we are talking £486 plus delivery. Wonder if he would do it for that delivered?
So the 296mm discs included are Avensis discs, I was trying to work out what they were from. At least supply wouldn't be too difficult in the future.
I'm happy to run those disks, rather than go for a kit to use the standard discs.
Very very interested, I guess you are very keen too?
Hi guys
Just realised I'm a member on here as well! Too many forums, not enough hours!!
Yes, we can sort something out for the MR2' we've already designed a kit for it using the 296mm Avensis discs. As I said I'm not 100% sure the reason we didn't do a kit for the standard diameter wheels, it was a while ago. It as either customer preference or no space to get a bracket in there, but I can speak to my engineer tomorrow and confirm.
The group buy would have to be all the same kits, but if there's people wanting something different, we can always accomodate as we make all the kits in house so can adapt to suit your requirement.
If you want specific details about the kits, just ask.
Quote from: "freakyparts"Hi guys
Just realised I'm a member on here as well! Too many forums, not enough hours!!
Yes, we can sort something out for the MR2' we've already designed a kit for it using the 296mm Avensis discs. As I said I'm not 100% sure the reason we didn't do a kit for the standard diameter wheels, it was a while ago. It as either customer preference or no space to get a bracket in there, but I can speak to my engineer tomorrow and confirm.
The group buy would have to be all the same kits, but if there's people wanting something different, we can always accomodate as we make all the kits in house so can adapt to suit your requirement.
If you want specific details about the kits, just ask.
Welcome, kind of!
It looks like there are a few of us interested so I hope we can come to an agreement.
Two questions 1) Which pads do you supply with the calipers, 2) will my current braided hoses work or will we need to replace the hoses?
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Thanks for the update.
If it was 10% discount, we are talking £486 plus delivery. Wonder if he would do it for that delivered?
So the 296mm discs included are Avensis discs, I was trying to work out what they were from. At least supply wouldn't be too difficult in the future.
I'm happy to run those disks, rather than go for a kit to use the standard discs.
Very very interested, I guess you are very keen too?
Delivery is on top, and usually £15.00 for a full kit including discs, but you're welcome to collect from Gloucester/Bristol.
10% is an approximation, I'll need to sort out numbers and confirm the final price based on 5 orders, but I'm 1/2 way through refitting the gearbox into the missus' race car... You know how much grief you get for not putting the dirty clothes in the basket... Not finishing a gearbox install is waaaay worse s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Welcome, kind of!
It looks like there are a few of us interested so I hope we can come to an agreement.
Two questions 1) Which pads do you supply with the calipers, 2) will my current braided hoses work or will we need to replace the hoses?
The standard pads are Wilwood BP10 fast road compound, but we can supply anything you like. For example a set of DS2500s would be an extra £50.00, EBC YellowStuffs the same (I think).
The kit can be fitted to your standard hoses as we can modify the calipers to take a standard M10x1 banjo, however if you wanted a pair of braided hoses we can supply them with the kit for an extra £35.00 for the front set or £65.00 for a complete front/rear set.
Quote from: "freakyparts"Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Thanks for the update.
If it was 10% discount, we are talking £486 plus delivery. Wonder if he would do it for that delivered?
So the 296mm discs included are Avensis discs, I was trying to work out what they were from. At least supply wouldn't be too difficult in the future.
I'm happy to run those disks, rather than go for a kit to use the standard discs.
Very very interested, I guess you are very keen too?
Delivery is on top, and usually £15.00 for a full kit including discs, but you're welcome to collect from Gloucester/Bristol.
10% is an approximation, I'll need to sort out numbers and confirm the final price based on 5 orders, but I'm 1/2 way through refitting the gearbox into the missus' race car... You know how much grief you get for not putting the dirty clothes in the basket... Not finishing a gearbox install is waaaay worse s:D :D s:D
I can imagine! I don't think anyone is in enough of a rush to cause a domestic!
Quote from: "freakyparts"Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Welcome, kind of!
It looks like there are a few of us interested so I hope we can come to an agreement.
Two questions 1) Which pads do you supply with the calipers, 2) will my current braided hoses work or will we need to replace the hoses?
The standard pads are Wilwood BP10 fast road compound, but we can supply anything you like. For example a set of DS2500s would be an extra £50.00, EBC YellowStuffs the same (I think).
The kit can be fitted to your standard hoses as we can modify the calipers to take a standard M10x1 banjo, however if you wanted a pair of braided hoses we can supply them with the kit for an extra £35.00 for the front set or £65.00 for a complete front/rear set.
Thanks for the confirmation.
I don't know what the process on here is for a group buy is but erm I'm in for either sizes!
I know how well these work on the celica so i can imagine they are still very good for the mr2
Quote from: "Sadlebag"I don't know what the process on here is for a group buy is but erm I'm in for either sizes!
You have to PM Nathan and ask permission
To cut out a middle man might be better if Stewart runs it?
Best talk to the committee before going to far.
I think to keep it simple we should go for the kit as advertised on the website
Happy to look at a full kit.
Just to add to the mix are you able to do a rear kit with the wilwood 4 pot with handbrake as a kit?
We can take a look at is, but the last one we did for the Celica Gen7 came in around £850 due to custom discs. This was with the internal drum style handbrake as well.
But if you want one, we can make one s:) :) s:)
I was looking at wilwood forged powerlite 4 pot caliper with built in handbrake mechanism for the rear.
Yes, we've used them before for kits. It's a bit of a faff with the custom handbrake mechanisms.
Something like a 284mm disc would fit, but can't seem to find much on the standard piston diameter for the rear. Any ideas?
Would the 284 disc be like the front and be an off the shelf disc?
I could strip down and measure the piston diameter if it helps
Correct. We try to supply off the shelf discs with all the kits.
Occasionally they might need the PCD or centre ore changing but we can do, or supply details for local engineering shops to do.
Sounds good, well if its possible to look into the rear as well that would be good as I would be very interested in front and rear.
[MOD]Just to confirm, no matter who is running a group buy, it must be approved by the committee; nathanmr2 is indeed the man to speak to. Cheers[/MOD]
Ok, who's sorting the GB out then? Sadlebag? If so I'll send over the details to you and you can get it approved.
Alright bud yeah I'll do it then ill send a PM to that guy above now.
Quote from: "freakyparts"Hi guys
As I said I'm not 100% sure the reason we didn't do a kit for the standard diameter wheels, it was a while ago. It as either customer preference or no space to get a bracket in there, but I can speak to my engineer tomorrow and confirm.
The group buy would have to be all the same kits, but if there's people wanting something different, we can always accomodate as we make all the kits in house so can adapt to suit your requirement.
Hi Stewart, did you get an answer on this? If a kit suitable to fit under the standard wheel is possible I would be very interested.
Thanks
The standard 251x20mm discs wont give enough clearance to get a bracket in there. Plus with a brake upgrade ideally you want a larger diameter disc to improve the thermal capacity of them. The larger the better! It will stop them overheating after a good track session.
With the 295x26mm discs they'll cope with a lot more abuse.
As for fitting behind standard alloys, I think they'll be close and might need a spacer. If they do, I'd supply the spacers at cost.
From my estimations, you'll need an internal diameter of 340mm for the wheel, and approx. 40mm from current disc face to the back of the spokes.
Assuming the piston is the same measurement in and out i could get you that as ive got full set in the garage
How do you mean re the piston?
The calipers have a fixed body so doesn't move in and out. The dimensions will be the same whether the pads are new or ready to replace.
Quote from: "freakyparts"Yes, we've used them before for kits. It's a bit of a faff with the custom handbrake mechanisms.
Something like a 284mm disc would fit, but can't seem to find much on the standard piston diameter for the rear. Any ideas?
in regards to this.
Ah, see what you mean.
It's the diameter of the body of the piston, rather than the outer area as sometimes manufacturers cast/machine them to have a lip to fit the dust seal to. If the piston is out of the body some way, it would be the diameter around the exposed section.
Quote from: "tomaky"Quote from: "freakyparts"Yes, we've used them before for kits. It's a bit of a faff with the custom handbrake mechanisms.
Something like a 284mm disc would fit, but can't seem to find much on the standard piston diameter for the rear. Any ideas?
in regards to this.
Tom have you got a rear hub, disc and caliper as one you could send them to help them with measurements? Dont mind paying the postage costs
Got everything but the HUB a think, could easily send it off to you.
Needs all of it, so spacing can be worked out.
Would just like to say that i would be interested in the full kit too.
Probably not in the next couple of months due to the fact that SWMBO would not be happy.
We can do the kits anytime, but the discounted price (to be posted up shortly) is only available through this group buy.
How about an anti angry wife discount in the future? s;) ;) s;)
That's what the separate car fund account is for. You syphon off a few quid a month and eventually have a nice stash s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Either that or I could helpfully adjust the value on the receipt for you s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "freakyparts"That's what the separate car fund account is for. You syphon off a few quid a month and eventually have a nice stash s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Either that or I could helpfully adjust the value on the receipt for you s;) ;) s;)
I think I need a car fund account s:) :) s:) (secret one that is) s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Quote from: "freakyparts"That's what the separate car fund account is for. You syphon off a few quid a month and eventually have a nice stash s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Either that or I could helpfully adjust the value on the receipt for you s;) ;) s;)
I think I need a car fund account s:) :) s:) (secret one that is) s:D :D s:D
You've got it easy your mrs even goes on track days with you.
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Quote from: "freakyparts"That's what the separate car fund account is for. You syphon off a few quid a month and eventually have a nice stash s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Either that or I could helpfully adjust the value on the receipt for you s;) ;) s;)
I think I need a car fund account s:) :) s:) (secret one that is) s:D :D s:D
I haven't got one... (http://www.smiley-faces.org/smiley-faces/smiley-face-whistle-1.gif)
Quote from: "1979scotte"You've got it easy your mrs even goes on track days with you.
You wait till she wants her own race car to compete against you!! That's when things start getting
really expensive!!
http://jonelseyphotography.photoshelter.com/image/I00002xIQdNSe5U0
Quote from: "freakyparts"Quote from: "1979scotte"You've got it easy your mrs even goes on track days with you.
You wait till she wants her own race car to compete against you!! That's when things start getting really expensive!!
http://jonelseyphotography.photoshelter.com/image/I00002xIQdNSe5U0
That's pretty cool! I would never let her, just in case she beat me s:D :D s:D
That's where not setting the car up quite as good as yours comes into play s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "freakyparts"That's where not setting the car up quite as good as yours comes into play s;) ;) s;)
I let my mrs beat me whenever she likes s;) ;) s;)
I could probably get a hub for you
Should we break this out to a separate freakyparts bbk thread?
Was hoping the GB would have been authorised by now and we could discuss in there. Anyone know if there's any issues with it?
There needs to be a GB thread once it's approved.
Saddle bag , where you at?
Sent an email to Nathan yesterday but no reply as of yet.
Cheers, let us know when you get a response s:) :) s:)
Still waiting, is this really the only way you can do it, no one else I can contact?
I need to be ordering the kits by the end of the month as well to get the discount...
Quote from: "Sadlebag"Still waiting, is this really the only way you can do it, no one else I can contact?
Put a post in the club area asking why it hasn't been responded to
Quote from: "freakyparts"I need to be ordering the kits by the end of the month as well to get the discount...
Why does it have to be this month? If the opportunity had come up in February rather than now, would you not have been able to do a group buy price?
It's getting the parts ordered in quantity.
The price break is actually at 10, not 5 but there's little chance I'd get 10 sales here so having to split the GB on the CCUK forum. Already upto 4 over there so have to stick to the timescales otherwise people will start to drop out should it drag on to the end of February.
Also, getting the time with the engineer is always difficult. He's got a couple of quiet weeks coming up which means he can knock them out in one go rather than slotting them around other work and extending the production times.
I only need deposits to confirm the orders as well, the balance would be due when the kits are ready to ship so it's not like everyone has to find the total amount in the next week or 2.
Quote from: "freakyparts"It's getting the parts ordered in quantity.
The price break is actually at 10, not 5 but there's little chance I'd get 10 sales here so having to split the GB on the CCUK forum. Already upto 4 over there so have to stick to the timescales otherwise people will start to drop out should it drag on to the end of February.
Also, getting the time with the engineer is always difficult. He's got a couple of quiet weeks coming up which means he can knock them out in one go rather than slotting them around other work and extending the production times.
I only need deposits to confirm the orders as well, the balance would be due when the kits are ready to ship so it's not like everyone has to find the total amount in the next week or 2.
Sounds reasonable to me. Have you been contacted by anyone about the group buy on here yet?
Nope. Nothing.
I'll fire the message over to the GB contact as well.
He has been online this morning as well s:( :( s:(
Right have a reply he's happy for this to go ahead, now as to how I start one though as I don't have a new topic option in the group buy section.
Create a new post in any section, point him over to it and he'll move it and authorise it... I presume?
I'll try....
Nope I can't either
I`ve started one for you - seemples s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Lol it's not an AP Racing kit though... it's a Wilwood kit s:D :D s:D
I've sorted it.
l viewtopic.php?f=36&t=53415 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=53415) l
well done that man s:) :) s:)
Well my name is down s:D :D s:D .
Me too, sign up in the new thread people