m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtop ... sc&start=0 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=12524&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) m
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=12078 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=12078) m
This came from SC, has anyone over here any idear if there is a new 05 car of even a stop of production?
did hear from a toyota insider that production was going to stop, but still to be confirmed
Hi,
few things from my own experience:
- Usual Toyota policy is to have an new model every 5 years and facelift of existing model 3rd year
- Toyota has huge amounts of money available, they have the money to develop new mr2
- Toyota is ok with selling MR2 in relativly low numbers, and they seem to make money off it as well.
- MR2 sales are not falling off a lot compared with last year, in fact they might rise yet as compared to 03
Contrary to popular belief, Toyota does not have huge number of mr2's waiting to be sold. They produce cars by demand, same factory that does mr2 probably has quite few other models being produced (I checked, they produce Corolla's, Allex (hatchback Corolla in JP) and few others), with mr2 getting on the line based on demand and considering that they can not make enough Corolla's as it is, that factory is super efficient (parts of Euro market receive Japanese Corolla's due to UK factory running at capacity)
I had customer order mr2 in march and he is waiting for it to arrive in July, which means there were absolutly no unsold models at factory (there never are, it is not "toyota way") and there were no unsold models at all in Austria that were coming before July.
I really dont see the reason for MR2 to be just discontinued, and please dont believe whata anyone in the states say, they would not know... Toyota sold 9,000 MR2's last year, with complete sales of 65,000 since 1999 and sales stats show only slight dip this year (0.6%), while Celica in its last sale year is selling some 30% less than 03. I would say that 65,000 is quite nice number for an completly niche vehicle whith low key advertising and almost no push at all.
p.s. your dealer would not know much either, not even some high ups in the Toyota structure, since the model is not an high volume model important for local markets... I know when would major cars from Toyota be introduced approx, but for cars such as mr2, you simply dont get to know. Just think if TTE would spend all that money developing the turbo for car thats going off the line right away...
Quote from: "spwolf"please dont believe whata anyone in the states say
hee hee - presumably this includes their president as well s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Sundnce s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "spwolf"dont believe whata anyone in the states say, they would not know...
Actually they should know...but they are only talking about US Toyota discontinuing importing MR2 to US, so it really doesn't affect EU/UK at all.
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "spwolf"dont believe whata anyone in the states say, they would not know...
Actually they should know...but they are only talking about US Toyota discontinuing importing MR2 to US, so it really doesn't affect EU/UK at all.
not really, since sales are steady in the USA, very doubtful that Toyota would cut its most important market for MR2 :-) :-) :-) ... in fact, sales are up almost 5% which is pretty good for model in 5th year...
people there always compare everything with Supra which was continued to be sold elsewhere, forgeting of course that it happened due to horrible sales and engine not meeting upcoming standards...
Personally I don't think there is any doubt the 2 will be pulled from the US. Toyota can't make a great profit on the 2, and given the engineering cost of conversion to LHD I think those markets will go first.
Quote from: "MRMike"....and given the engineering cost of conversion to LHD I think those markets will go first.
Huh??? I guess more LHD are sold than RHD as most of the world drive on the wrong side of the road s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Still, My dealer also told me that he thinks the MR2 will go end of 2005, as will the Celica. He was talking about a future model which will merge the MR2 and Celica with an electro roof.
I hope it will be based on this
http://www.msnbc.com/m/c/ctv_msnv3.asp?id=msn/9518&subid=CarPoint&name='+self.name,'mp','height=460,width=520'
True, but I was thinking more from the perspective that Japan is RHD also, when they fazed the last 2 out they pulled it out of LHD markets first, and kept it running in the UK longer, and kept it going in Japan for years after IIRC
Quote from: "spwolf"not really, since sales are steady in the USA
Yes, because they have a limit of 5000 cars/year s;) ;) s;) It has been a limited vehicle all the time and I wouldn't be surprised if they stop importing it for the same reason. AFAIK, the decision is done by Toyota US though, not Toyota Japan. I'm sure they'd be happy to sell these to US for years.
Quote from: "MRMike"Personally I don't think there is any doubt the 2 will be pulled from the US. Toyota can't make a great profit on the 2, and given the engineering cost of conversion to LHD I think those markets will go first.
I don't get what you mean? There is money involved when engineers convert RHD vehicle to LHD, but that money has been paid years ago and every sold LHD car makes money to Toyota. Assuming they don't sell at loss s:roll: :roll: s:roll: So it wouldn't make sense to drop LHD production for that s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Tem"I don't get what you mean? There is money involved when engineers convert RHD vehicle to LHD, but that money has been paid years ago and every sold LHD car makes money to Toyota. Assuming they don't sell at loss s:roll: :roll: s:roll: So it wouldn't make sense to drop LHD production for that s:? :? s:?
Yep, that makes sense all the tooling, machinery has been bought etc, and your only paying the variable costs. Your right. I was going more on what has happened previously with the MK 2.
I imagine Toyota has acheived all it wanted to with the MR2, and whilst it probably makes a small profit as you mentioned, there must be an opportunity cost associated with the capacity that the MR2 takes up, which could be better served on a more profitable sector. Especially now to some degree the F1 series is the main 'Halo' for the Toyota range.
To sum up I don't think it will be long before the MR2 goes, although this would rather go against the current trend of prototype small roadsters..
By the way TEM I need some reccomendations for hotels in Tampere so I'll PM you! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "spwolf"not really, since sales are steady in the USA
Yes, because they have a limit of 5000 cars/year s;) ;) s;) It has been a limited vehicle all the time and I wouldn't be surprised if they stop importing it for the same reason. AFAIK, the decision is done by Toyota US though, not Toyota Japan. I'm sure they'd be happy to sell these to US for years.
I think you are looking at it from wrong side, Toyota USA imports the car, and sells it in the USA... it sells it at price that is actually bigger than price in Europe (26k before taxes, with less equipment than in Europe where it costs less than that, before taxes.)
So why would Toyota USA stop importing car that they make money off and that is getting more sales in its 5th year of sales? Thats just not plain good business.
There is the point of TMC and Toyota factory stopping the MR2 bulding due to losing money on it, but due to that factory being supper efficient, and the fact that Toyota designed MR2 to be built in low numbers and they always claimed that they are making money from it, while producing low number of units.
So there is absolutly no reason to stop MR2 sales unless the actual factory is losing money on bulding it OR new model is coming... I am pretty sure that MR2 sales will stop at one point, but based on info currently available, thats not going to happen due to anything but new model coming soon....
Simply, there is no reason to stop selling it if we all still continue to make profit off it... And more they build it, more profit will Toyota make, due to development costs being amortized, etc, etc...
of course, there will always be people who claim things (If you remember, Celica was supposed to be discontinued in 1999, according to numerous Celica sites back in 1999), but that does not mean we would believe them :-) :-) :-) .
Quote from: "spwolf"So why would Toyota USA stop importing car that they make money off
No idea...many were asking the same question when Toyota USA stop importing Mk2 MR2 and Mk4 Supra, while they were still available in Europe.
I know they didn't sell many of either in the last years, but I'm sure they made profit of them and didn't sell at loss. At first 5000 MR2's/year does sound kinda big, but if you consider that US has 1200 Toyota dealerships, it's only roughly 4 cars/dealer/year. Apparently Toyota sold 200482 vehicles in US last year and is looking for some +13% this year. Maybe they just want to focus on the models that sell big numbers?
(all numbers from Google, so not 100% sure of them)
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "spwolf"So why would Toyota USA stop importing car that they make money off
No idea...many were asking the same question when Toyota USA stop importing Mk2 MR2 and Mk4 Supra, while they were still available in Europe.
I know they didn't sell many of either in the last years, but I'm sure they made profit of them and didn't sell at loss. At first 5000 MR2's/year does sound kinda big, but if you consider that US has 1200 Toyota dealerships, it's only roughly 4 cars/dealer/year. Apparently Toyota sold 200482 vehicles in US last year and is looking for some +13% this year. Maybe they just want to focus on the models that sell big numbers?
(all numbers from Google, so not 100% sure of them)
indeed, but both supra and mr2 had terrible sales and its engines didnt pass upcoming emission laws, which is all completly different than mr-s... there is absolutly no business reason from Toyota USA to not sell the car anymore... indeed, it has been confirmed by US dealers that you can order 05 mr2 now (since for factory order you would have to wait for 120 days)