Ok I know you all are going post 100's of links to stagger etc etc, can someone give me a yes or no to if I can use spacers in my tears to give the same handling and staggered effect, ATM I have aftermarket 17" with 215 all round and ive heard its dangerous..... I no its not ideal but I don't want to buy new wheels and the rear tires are also brand new!
Many thanks
s:flame: :flame: s:flame:
Quote from: "s12vea":flame:
very true steve.
op the answer is no the tyres have to change to create stagger nothing else will do it!!
Spacers aren't going to make your tyre contact area wider which is what you need to aim for, they will just make the wheels stick out more.
Really not recommended to have the same tyres. Some people have got away with it, many haven't.
Right well first off no dont use spacers tp give stagger, it doesn't work like that.
Few questions really
1. If the tyres are brand new, why didnt u put staggered tyres on to start with?
2. If you recently bought the car and the person before put the tyres on and they are almost brand new as u say, alot of tyre places will part exchange the tyres for u so its worth a go. I did it with mine.
My guess is that the op has got a wheel and tyre deal combo. You can go to halfords and buy a set of wheels and tyres but they sure wont be staggered
You should at least stagger the trye pressures front / rear.
This is such a complex subject because there are so many variables. The spacers will widen the track a bit but will also soften the suspension a bit.
If wider track at the rear and a slightly softer suspension will reduce the likelyhood of 'snap' oversteer then ok but I suspect they will just cancel each other out
Toyota sank a lot of development money into producing a car with pretty neutral, 'go where you point it' handling'.
Like a lot of others, I wrote off my MGF on a fairly slow left hander when the back went with no warning, span into a tree and bounced back into the road. Fortunately there was nothing coming the other way because I would have taken them out too.
Sorry I'm really new!!!! I thought stagger meant to stagger the tires..... I just brought the car so it came with the alloys.... I may try see if a garage will part ex them but its doubtful where I'm from.... Also is it possible to put wider tires on same size rims????
Stagger does mean to stagger the tyres mate. And yes u can put wider tyres on the same rims. You deffo want to be putting wider ones onbthe back buddy.
Quote from: "dj2k21"Stagger does mean to stagger the tyres mate. And yes u can put wider tyres on the same rims. You deffo want to be putting wider ones onbthe back buddy.
Could be a good idea to ask the op what wheels and tyres he has and then throw some numbers/options at him.
I think he's got the message now about stagger. I use OE wheels and Toyo front Bridgestone rear. I have no experience of other options.
What do you think guys?
Get ready for the flaming to begin .... Don't want to be mixing brands front and rear
Quote from: "Jandaw"Quote from: "dj2k21"Stagger does mean to stagger the tyres mate. And yes u can put wider tyres on the same rims. You deffo want to be putting wider ones onbthe back buddy.
Could be a good idea to ask the op what wheels and tyres he has and then throw some numbers/options at him.
I think he's got the message now about stagger. I use OE wheels and Toyo front Bridgestone rear. I have no experience of other options.
What do you think guys?
happy to oblige, I think its an incredibly stupid thing to do
Quote from: "Jandaw"Toyo front Bridgestone rear. What do you think guys?
Another s:flame: :flame: s:flame: I'm afraid
It really is best to have the same make and model tyres on all four corners
...In staggered sizes at the correct pressures
Quote from: "kentsmudger"Quote from: "Jandaw"Toyo front Bridgestone rear. What do you think guys?
Another s:flame: :flame: s:flame: I'm afraid
It really is best to have the same make and model tyres on all four corners
...In staggered sizes
at the correct pressures
Amen brother !! Lol
Quote from: "s12vea"Quote from: "kentsmudger"Quote from: "Jandaw"Toyo front Bridgestone rear. What do you think guys?
Another s:flame: :flame: s:flame: I'm afraid
It really is best to have the same make and model tyres on all four corners
...In staggered sizes
at the correct pressures
Amen brother !! Lol
Another +1 here
As as been said often before, the reason is that different makes of tyre have different stiffness in the tyre wall, ie some will flex more than others and mixing types may not work because the back or front can be relatively 'loose' or 'tight' and alter the handling.
Given a lot of time and testing on track then I'm sure you could arrive at a good set up, particularly if you added adjustable coilovers but few have the resources or knowledge or time. The safest bet is to stick close to the stock set up or to copy something which is known to work.
There will be someone out there with 17's who is making it work.
My tires are some random brand bct or something like that, and they are 205/40/17 all round
I don't use this car like a maniac and have only felt the back end twinge once on a roundabout......do you guys say this is dangerous for someone with a heavy right foot??? As I am quite mellow at driving and hardly ever open her up
How you drive a car is not always up to you, you might be reacting to somebody elses foolishness.
If you are a "mellow" driver then you should never have had that one Twinge. The problem is once it goes there is no getting it back unless you are in control from the first millisecond. Members have ditched their cars at minimal speeds.
The choice is yours, but if you fail to heed recommendations (for whatever reason) then if a problem arises you will at least know we were right. If they don't arise I suggest you accept you've been lucky.
It's unsafe for anyone. Irrespective of how the car is utilised on the road, if you lower the risk of twitchiness then you lower the likelihood of the car biting back. The way a person drives is only one aspect of driving. There's a lot more out there to factor in to the equation.
My suggestion is that you have a nosey round and stick some words in the search bar at the top. Plenty of people have noticed that sticking to a stagger, same brand etc etc can really transform the car in a noticeable way. Worth thinking about, but nobody can make you do anything that you choose not to.
Maybe ill stick the standard wheels he gave me back on the car..... It just seems a waste of the brand new wheels
Sell them.... spendnthe cash on handling mods
Quote from: "dj2k21"Sell them.... spendnthe cash on handling mods
Best advice so far.
Took a few posts to get there.
I told a young lad to sort his tyres out and if he decided not to take my advise and leave it, then to at least sort them before it started to get wet as it was the summer when I spoke about this. He didn't take my advise and 2 months later this was the result...
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/e8une6uq.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/eza8avet.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/e4abejeq.jpg)
His head went through the drivers window , which wasn't open
Lol ok ok ok I get the picture now s:) :) s:) I may sell the standards and use the money to buy new tires for the alloys as they do set the car off.... But obvs same brand and staggered... What thickness would i require for 17" alloys?
Depends on the width of the wheels. Take a look at the bottom of this thread and there is a link to a favourable make of tyre with a list of tyres which will fit on certain width wheels
l viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42687 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42687) l
I think the favoured size is 225/35/17 on the rears and 205/40/17 front but like I say it depends on wheel width and make of tyre
Quote from: "antinator"Lol ok ok ok I get the picture now s:) :) s:) I may sell the standards and use the money to buy new tires for the alloys as they do set the car off.... But obvs same brand and staggered... What thickness would i require for 17" alloys?
Standard alloys, are staggered wheels as well as staggered tyres ,have a look at the standards you have spare and you will see they are different widths ,later cars had different size rears as well
what are the standards ,all 15" or 2 15s 2 16s, what are the 17s you have ?
Could sell sell both sets and get some more suitable ones
Quote from: "antinator"My tires are some random brand bct or something like that, and they are 205/40/17 all round
I don't use this car like a maniac and have only felt the back end twinge once on a roundabout......do you guys say this is dangerous for someone with a heavy right foot??? As I am quite mellow at driving and hardly ever open her up
Oh no, double trouble, cheapo ditch finders too made out of plastic. Dude your gonna end up in a ditch unless you loose these. As has been said even driving like miss daisy will only buy you time. At some point your going to hit a slippy bit of corner. The rear will have the same or less grip than the front, all the weight is at the rear so once it starts to move its not going to stop (this happens very quickly BTW) and by the time you realise whats going on it will be too late to do much about it.
I understand your quandary, ditching four perfectly good, and two new tyres on the back, seems such a waste and I was going to suggest maybe putting the new back tyres/wheels on the front and then buy two tyres for the back of the same brand but wider?............... But then I read some reviews of the BCT, now I know Internet reviews can be a little misleading, after all people are quick to complain on the Internet but rarely make the effort to post a good review but saying that I really did struggle to find anyone who had a good word for them.
Ok so ive rang a company who might part ex the tires..... I'm going for 205/40/17 front and 22/30/17 back surely this is ok.......right??
Quote from: "antinator"Ok so ive rang a company who might part ex the tires..... I'm going for 205/40/17 front and 22/30/17 back surely this is ok.......right??
22/30/17 is going to be a bit narrow. sorry couldnt resist
to match the 205/40/17 on the front you will want 225/35/17 on the back
Whoops that's what i meant!!!
Ok so now next problem is 225/35/17 are rare and I mean no1 around can order them! Would 225/40/17 work?? Or 215/40/17 or is that not enough of a width change
Op
If you have the old stock alloys I'd suggest you use them and use standard sizes. The standard tyres are cheap and easy to get ahold of. Later, you can sell the halfords alloys off and use the cash to pay for a refurb of the stock wheels (about £200)?
Stock alloys will most likely be lighter too so they will be a performance increase over the 17" rims I'd imagine.
David
Order them from black circles mate then just pay for fitting at a tyre place or opt for the fitting service at a local branch which they show u on a map and they will deliver the tyres there and u go have them fitted. Believe it or not my local bkack circles fitter is my local Peugeot dealership.
225/35/17 are a rear ish tyre. camskill do them tho you can always look at 195/45/17 front and 225/40/17 rear if they ok on the 7j rim. have a look at nathans link at what toyo recommend on the 7j rim and it should give you an idea. but a rule of thumb if the rear tyre is 20mm wider (ie the 225 bit) then you lower the profile by 5 (ie the 35 bit).
or use this
m http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html (http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html) m
Tyre choice is a big head ache. Ive recently gone through it and spent hours looking what was right for me and its even more of a struggle with 17's as it limits your choice.
I got a better deal than i could find anywhere online when i called up more local tyre place. I got my tyres fitted for less than ebay, tyretrader, black circles prices which were delivered without fitting. I secured mine for around £60 less fitted so its worth making the calls once youve decided what you want.
Bear in mind tyres choice is worth investing some serious time in and its not something you want to be skrimping on buying real cheapo tyres. They are the only thing keeping you attached to the road
Falken 452's
205/40/17
225/35/17
Should cost you around £390 all in via blackcircles - haven't looked anywhere else
Paul
Hi Guys
Hope this is the right forum for this.
I got got a new set of 17" rims for my mr2.
front: 17 x 7.0
back: 17 x 7.5
My question is, what tires to use??
I was told 215/40/17 for the front and 225/40/17 for the back. Will this work for the car or do i have to use a different sizes.
Regards
km7
I think what's written above pretty much answers your questions so I'd read through that.
Ideally you want a 20-30mm difference in stagger between the front and rear but as said above I believe choices are limited for 17" rims?
Always!!!! Maintain a 20mm stagger! ive even got a 30mm stagger how ever that will probably turn into 20mm if the fronts ever go haha
You might have arch issues with 225/40s, 225/35 preferable. But see above, go 195/205 front and 215/225 rear if you can.
thanks guys for all the replies
i really appreciate it
regards
km7
This is what i can get for a good price
Yokohama's
205/40/17 - Front
225/45/17 - Back
Will there be a problem if the profiles are different as i cannot get the 225 with a 40 profile.
Regards
km7
Yes, no way will that fit. Not to mention that your rolling radius will be 5%/8% higher (depending on whether you're PFL or FL).
As I said, even 225/40 probably the most you can go, you need 225/35 ideally.
Front 205/40/17 m http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop. ... sowigan=So (http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=6905530.110.22481&typ=R-125496&ranzahl=4&Breite=205&Quer=40&Felge=17&Speed=W&weiter=40&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=20&Transport=P&F_F=1&dsco=110&sowigan=So) m
Rear 225/35/17 m http://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/f ... e=10982706 (http://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/falken/fk-452/225/35/R17/Y/86/f?returnurl=%2forder%2ftyres%3f%26width%3d225%26profile%3d35%26rim%3d17%26speed%3dAny&tyre=10982706) m
Matched tyres.
so next question is a dumb one, won't it look odd having a 35 profile in the back and 40 in the front
You need to read a lot more about tyres and profiles.
The simple answer is no .... the profile is a percentage of the width of the tread, so 205/40 -vs- 225/35 will not look that much different on the car.
BUT ... having driven with 215/40/17 on the back I would say you will feel like you're sat on a pile of rocks with a rabid mole under them when you're driving along your average road! s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
i.e., Comparing overall tyre diameters;
205/40/17 = 596mm
225/35/17 = 589mm
Difference = 7mm
Hardly noticeable
ok, will 215/40/17 back & 205/40/17 front work??
who knew buying tires would be this hard...
i am checking if i can get the 225/35/17, if i can then i will go 205/40/17 front & 225/35/17 back
thanks for the help guys
regards
km7
Well as has been said that is below the 20mm stagger recommended, they will fit but handling will be more risky.
Rear overall diameter will be greater than standard and you will notice it being harder to accelerate.
Ant it will still feel like a badger on ecstasy is trying to dig up through the seat.
You can get a 225/45 under at a big squeeze as that is what im on, but i would say that 40 would be the up most biggest to go to.
When does the snap oversteer come in to play........ I only use the car at weekends and have given it the boot now and again on some bendy country roads,i have never felt the car doing anything out of the ordinary and i only have 205/50/16 on the rear instead of the 215s.
Probably the less stagger you have (if any) the higher the probability of snap.
Obviously the harder you drive the car and closer to its edge the higher the probability of it catching you.
Mixing tyres also affects that probability, you may be a great driver and will control it when it occurs, you may not react in the right way or quick enough when it happens to avoid an accident involving just yourself or other people.
Quote from: "Markb"When does the snap oversteer come in to play........ I only use the car at weekends and have given it the boot now and again on some bendy country roads,i have never felt the car doing anything out of the ordinary and i only have 205/50/16 on the rear instead of the 215s.
When you get to the limit of adhesion of the tyres. If you have the correct stagger with matched make and model on both axles, the fronts will generally slide a little before the rear in any given situation. If you don't have enough stagger, it is more likely that the rear will let go first. In normal road driving, as long as you never reach the limits of grip, you will probably be OK. On the other hand, if / when you are involved in something like an emergency lane change or unexpectedly run onto some marginal surface mid corner, you could end up in an accident that you would have avoided with the correct setup.
This is a car that is a finely balanced mid engined device. Fitting the wrong combination of wheels and tyres is likely to mess it up. The thing that worries me is that the more people go for an incorrect setup (especially novices that don't understand the car and don't take the trouble to learn) the higher the insurance premiums go.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"The thing that worries me is that the more people go for an incorrect setup (especially novices that don't understand the car and don't take the trouble to learn) the higher the insurance premiums go.
A lot of people will take the advice of a garage and may never even see the forum, I think 'most' will happily put a cheap ditch finder on one corner and send you on your way... so at least they have an excuse. I'm more worried about the people that refuse to believe the advice on here as they haven't had an accident
yet and just put same sizes all round... they have no excuse!
I get what you gys are saying about a stagger set up but i prefer the square - i think. Never had a stagger set up but the car only has standard wheels. So 195 15 50 all round.
There is a front and middle underbody reinforcement and a front strut bar. On a dry surface it initially understeers (very briefly), then neutral (a bit longer) and then oversteer.
I love oversteer s:D :D s:D
In the wet i have to be very careful indeed and fully agree with GB and others. One's got to know one's own and the car's limits.
From what i'm reading, to go staggered would make for a car that is even more of an understeerer?
Perhaps going for bigger wheels and rubber exagerates all these characteristics?
As for snap oversteer - nah. The old 911, VW, Skodas with rear engine and swing axles - they were snap oversteerers. I've driven an old Skoda with a stronger (non standard) engine and it was fun!
Cheers
Weren't the pre facelift cars on the same size all round any way? Mine is an 01 on standard wheels with 195/50/15s all round. The rears are approaching the end of their life, I'm assuming from the advice on here that 205/45/15s are the way forward for the replacements?
THESE (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=24453) are the standard wheel/tyre specs and no the stock PFL did not have matching tyres sizes on each corner. Only the wheels were the same size.
Quote from: "StuC"Only the wheels were the same size.
same diameter, different widths though Stu s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "KTM_RIDER"Quote from: "StuC"Only the wheels were the same size.
same diameter, different widths though Stu s:) :) s:)
s:oops: :oops: s:oops: what he said ^^ s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "KTM_RIDER"Quote from: "StuC"Only the wheels were the same size.
same diameter, different widths though Stu s:) :) s:)
I thought it was only the rears that went to 16s ?
Yeah, I got this wrong on another thread, the fronts are 15x6 and the rears 15x6.5
Quote from: "mrzwei"the fronts are 15x6 and the rears 15x6.5
+1, that's what the link i posted says. I just forgot! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Double checked after my post and they are staggered, god knows where I got the 195/50/15 thing from. 185s on the front, 205s on the back