Hi all, newbie to the forum and to roadster ownership, only issue is I think I've bought a bit of a pup.
I went looking at the car early last week at a large used car dealers, 2001 model, 83000 miles on the clock. When I got there the battery was flat and they had to jump start it. In hindsight I should have walked away at this point, once running it sounded like an old transit with a York diesel fitted. I gave them the benefit of the doubt due to the flat battery possibly messing with the ECU, the lack of petrol in it and the fact that it had alledgedly been sat for ten days plus in sub zero temperatures.
I was reassured the car had previously been fine and on the very gentle short test drive it felt ok.....ish, again put any niggles down to it being stood. They agreed to put 12 months test on it which it passed first time with only an advisory for a wiper blade and the handbrake adjustment and a deal was struck.
Long story short, now its in regular use it is clearly not right and after visiting this forum and doing my homework I think I am driving a hand grenade. There is no power, not to the degree some have reported on here but its not right, in the first two gears it feels as if it is being starved of fuel, it is absolutely flat and sounds thrashy at high revs, it is clear the VVTI is not working as there is no "zing", it is not the revvy buzzy engine I was expecting and performance is dreadful. My wife has an 04 Mazda Premacy sport, also 138bhp that will trounce the MR2 in a straight line and it will just about wheeze its way to about 6000rpm at the moment if you are brave/ cruel enough to try.
It was idling between 500 and 1500 rpm and very lumpy, I have removed and cleaned the MAF sensor and reset the ECU but there has been no difference and it still has an horrendous diesel soundrack with a bit of a miss below 2000rpm if you blip the throttle. I am well read on the pre cat issue now and have done all the checks bar the visual inspection, I dont want to start removing O2 sensors and manifolds at the moment due to the possible impending warranty claim and the possibility of them blaming me for any damage, there is no white residue in the exhaust, although the age and mileage mean it may have stopped manifesting itself in this way some time ago, there is a lot of condensation from the exhaust accompanied by water from the tail pipe but nothing oily. It doesnt appear to be using/ losing oil at this point and I had my friend follow me home from work last night who reported no nasty smells or funny coloured clouds from the car, incidentally he was in a 94 1.8 MX5 which again is substantially nippier than my MR2 is at present.
If you keep the revs low and change up early it actually drives and pulls quite well, it is quite torquey and smooth below 3000rpm and I'm guessing would happily pull to three figures in this manner, there is just nothing above 3000rpm and it sounds awful but Im not suffering any of the "won't do 60mph" issues I have read on here.
I suppose I'm asking, do you think this is the pre-cat issue and the beginning of the end for my engine or do you think it is something a good service and general clean up will sort? I have spoken to the dealer who is having the car back on Wednesday (my next rest day) to have a look as I also have an issue with the gearbox, noisy whine on 5th gear (anyone had this before) and a bit of an issue down shifting from 5th to 4th, and he has been quite apologetic and helful so far basically saying take it back and they'll do any required work. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place now, I'm smitten with the car, amazing handling, great fun and dont really want to part with it, so do I give him the opportunity to fix it or state not fit for purpose and walk away? To me it requires a replacement engine and box, certainly only that would make me 100% happy but cant see the dealer putting that money into an £1800 car.
You shouldn't be having problems above 3000 rpm, the car should be pulling smoothly without any undue noise apart from a pleasant revving noise. Others on the forum, who are more mechanically minded than I am though, will be able to talk you through the rest of the thing you mention - and I am sure they will be along shortly.
In my opinion they have sold you a car that is as it stands not fit for purpose, and I think as the law stands you have to give them an opportunity to put it right. If they can't, then the car is not fit for purpose and they should take it back (and then you can buy mine s;) ;) s;)
Well then, quite a first post there, welcome to the club s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Taking this a step at a time.
Does the engine light come on with the ignition and then go out once the engine is running?
Sometimes dealers disable this in a number of ways to hide an obvious problem. It would be interesting to plug an obd2 reader in and see what it says.
When you say it doesn't seem to be using any oil, how many miles have you driven it and then been checking the level?
There are a few possible reasons for the wheezy nature you are describing, air filter, maf, precat collapse, oil starvation, plugs being ancient, vvti malfunction. Vvti malfunction would likely bring on the engine light, the vvti on this engine is very subtle and actually helps more with low end torque more than high end revs.
You say the engine sounds like an old diesel, which is a common symptom of an engine that has used a lot of oil and then damaged bearings. Putting new oil in might extend its life a little, but it's never going to 'heal'.
Steam and condensation is quite normal, especially in cold weather, that is a sign of healthy combustion.
5th gear whine is symptomatic of bearing wear in the gearbox, how bad it is is subjective. The gearboxes do get a bit noisy with miles and sometimes a refresh of oil is all it takes to cure it, we all live on limited time though.
You have bought a cheap high mileage car, 83000 miles and 12 years old, it's never going to be perfect, that's not making excuses for what could be a faulty car though. They are cars which are very easy to love, the drive is so different and enjoyable. It is the right thing to take it back to the dealer to fix, they're responsible for it. At £1800 their options and time they are prepared to spend on it are limited, for that value they are more likely to fob you off. I've seen cars that take a couple of hours and a good service to get back to full health, and then cars that just sap money, time, and health ... I'm undecided which your car is at the moment. I will say, keep your wits about you and don't be suckered just because you like the car, I've seen too many people suffer that fate.
They really should have made sure it was fit for purpose when you collected it, they have one chance to make it right and then you demand your money back.
Have only scanned over this as im at work but the diesel like sound suggests to me it could be running on 3? Could be well overdue plugs like wabbit says or a coilpack is gone? That would cause loss of power. Lumpy idle, and possibly make it feel like vvti is not engaging. That would be my first point of call. Good luck
Also MOT's form big warehouse type dealers tend to mean nothing.
I saw one car come out with a bent front shock, and faulty rear light with a full clean mot.
Plug or could pack would also normally bring on the engine light.
If it turns out they have disabled the engine light, personally, I wouldn't even let them try and fix the car ... It would be rejected and I would get my money back and they would be lucky not to be reported to trading standards.
Engine light, coming on with ignition, then going out on startup is definitely the first thing to do then.
Right, third time lucky, previous two replies havent materialised.
Thanks for the quick replies, I am a mechanic by trade although its been a while since I earned money with a spanner, I'll go through and answer the things you guys have suggested.
It is not running on three, definitely all four trying in there, its a hesitation at low revs, like a sticky or chipped valve, suppose could be crappy plugs or a failing coil pack but I would expect it to do it under load if this was the case which it doesnt seem to.
Cant be 100% certain about the engine light, I think it is ok though, I'll double check tonight on my way home. Ive checked the oil every day since I bought it after reading some of the threads on here, it hasnt moved from about three quarters of the way up the stick since I bought it, only covered about 500 miles though so maybe not a great bench mark just yet. Oil is getting ready for a change but Ive seen far worse, far from black, just a bit smelly.
My mate with the MX5 has had one of these previously and has already told me not to expect a VTEC or MiVEC type change in the engine behaviour with the VVTi as it is more discreet, however he agrees mine is doing nothing. As per my post already stripped and cleaned air filter and MAF sensor, both nice and clean and dry, no signs of back pressure or engine breathing. Air filter is genuine toyota item, again a bit grubby but seen far far worse and certainly wouldnt restrict the car to the extent it feels.
This is the odd bit, the air filter and MAF took me about twenty minutes to complete, this was immediately after a brisk 10 mile country road drive home from work, when I restarted the car was when I got the big cloud of condensation, definitely a cold start type cloud with a slightly fuelly smell, water out the tail pipe, no blue smoke, no oily smells, just didnt think the car would have cooled enough in that time to run like that on restart.
The car is a bit of a contradiction, a bit rough and ready, clearly washed rather than polished, kept rather than loved and yet has genuine toyota filters and matching half worn Continentals all round so hasnt been maintained on the cheap. Im hoping a bit of a flush and clean and a good service could be the cure but my gut says not.
Gearbox is another matter entirely, sounds like a straight cut touring car box when in top and wont down shift to fourth but the garage have provisionally agreed to sort this already. Baffled and gutted! And Im aware of the value (or lack of) of a dealer supplied MOT.
Also relevent, no mayo in either the oil or the header tank and the diesel sound is more reminiscent of diesel "crack" rather than "knock".
Top end sounds very thrashy like it is being starved of oil. It feels very restricted in lower gears, almost as if someone has put their hand over the exhaust, which I suppose indicates a cat problem.
Hmmmm, you've done lots of practical and sensible things there.
500 miles and no oil use is actually a good sign, it may be a good engine. Let us know how you get on with the engine light.
I recently serviced mine and found the plugs way out of gap, the difference the new set was very apparent and pleasing.
The engines can be a bit noisier than what you're used to, there's not a lot of insulation between it and the back of your head. Cam chain rattle may be apparent in your mileage and it may be worth replacing the tensioner.
The car has been owned and not loved, there are many out there like that, care and attention can do wonders.
The gearbox sounds like it's not long for this life, it is worth solving before it goes bang completely. If you look up Mattperfornance, one of our affiliates he may be able to help.
If you do keep the car you're going to meet some great people and I recommend you come along to the Ding Day to get to know faces. We can have a look over the car and lend a hand with anything you want to talk about.
Forgot to say, there is a good garage not so far from you, Charlesworth Motors have lots of experience with our cars and are enthusiastic workers. We also have some really friendly ans helpful members around the Greater Manchester area who would likely be happy to visit and offer support. I get over there every so often too so you're not alone. I may actually be over there tomorrow evening meeting another club.
Thanks for the welcome and the help. Actually in Wigan so a little North of Manchester. To be honest wouldnt be happy driving it any further than work (Haydock) at the moment. Will just have to see what Wednesday brings at the dealers. From experience happy and friendly on the phone equates to surly and unhelpful in person when it comes to parting with pound notes.
If you want to bob over to Bramhall you can go out in mine and compare the two cars. Mine pulls well but it does use a little bit of oil at the moment but that will be sorted when I drop the rebuilt engine in.
That might be an idea, thanks for the offer. With a spannering background its already painfully obvious its broken unfortunately, and as I said earlier my mate had one a while back, been using him for reference and he has said mine is nowhere near where it needs to be.
Reject the car, quickly, you don't have a long period to do this. Buy a better one and you'll love it, if only I knew of a good one for sale... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Right, just got home from work, was going to pull the plugs tonight and have a look whats going on with them but not going to bother now. Dipped the oil again when I've got home, still doesn't appear to have used anything at all in the days Ive had it, in fact, ironically its now starting to look like the only thing working properly are the bloody pre-cats, doesn't appear to be any symptoms off that list going on with my car at all.
HOWEVER..............
As predicted the engine management light HAS been disabled, this puts a new slant on everything, somebody somewhere has now deliberately sought to con somebody else, either the dealer trying it on with me or whoever part exed the car has had the dealer over. Either way its the straw that broke the camels back.....its going.
It is so underpowered and generally underwhelming that I suspect some expensive VVTi failure, I really cant describe how it drives, just feels like somebody has dropped a 1.2 Fiat Punto lump in it, if you've ever driven one of those you may understand what I mean, just at the point you'd expect a sweet little 16 valve motor to come on song it feels like its been artificially shut down. It feels restricted.
Coupled with the gearbox issue and the general "dog eared" standard of the rest of the car its just a bridge too far, yes I wanted a toy to play with for the summer but by play with I meant blatting round country roads with the roof off, not lying under it on my days off in overalls. Suppose I'm being a bit cruel to the car with the term dog eared, sure the roof is a little bit tatty in places, there are the odd bits of trim not on straight etc but the shell is mint and i bought it with the mindset that it WOULD be fun doing those little bits and pieces and making it perfect and mine.....I didn't sign up for this though. Properly gutted but hey ho.
Sorry to say I kind of expected the engine light to be disabled, I believe you are making the right decision.
There will be others out there much more worthy if you still want to try the roadster as a fun car.
Oh I'm hooked mate, that's the shame of it, absolutely did NOT expect the driving experience to be as amazing as it is. The handling is sublime, even this one puts a big smile on my face, even though it feels like about 60 horses have run away at some point, and yes I do estimate the power to be down by that much. I had a 1.6 CVH powered Scimitar SS1 many moons ago pumping out a mighty 95bhp and it was WAAAAAY quicker than this poorly little 2 is at present.
So come on Wabbit, what is your prediction for the actual fault? I'm tempted to get it diagnosed locally before I take it back and see if the dealer admits the same faults or tries to blag me. Sad thing is I part exed an elderly Saab 900 convertible in against it that was as reliable as a swiss watch, just a bad call all round basically. I need to see what the dealer comes back with though really, I give everybody a fair chance and maybe just maybe he might not be in on the "scam", wishful thinking here but a certified and warrantied second hand engine and box installed by a garage of my choice would see me keeping the car provided no invoice of any sort came within thirty miles of me. That's the only way I can see it staying though and everything will be in writing from this point on.
Guessing what's wrong with it is tough.
The maf could be faulty.
O2 sensors could be dead.
Main cat could be blocked with precat debris.
Vvti actuator or ocv could be duff.
Any combination of the above, only way to be certain would be to plug a reader in and start from there.
I'm meeting with some friends in Stockport for 7pm tomorrow night going for a drive, will have reader with me.
Having a code reader in your toolkit is very handy these days, whenever I've gone to look at cars for people it's one of the first things I do.
Everything you say seems to point to a timing issue so either this is fundamentally out (slipped cog or just put back a tooth out) or the variable valve stuff.
Possibly fuel feed related.
Be interesting to see if the engine number matches the V5.
I'd love to be there when you mention that the CEL light isn't working.
Quote from: "mrzwei"Everything you say seems to point to a timing issue so either this is fundamentally out (slipped cog or just put back a tooth out) or the variable valve stuff.
Possibly fuel feed related.
Be interesting to see if the engine number matches the V5.
I'd love to be there when you mention that the CEL light isn't working.
You know what I hadn't actually considered a timing issue, never at the forefront of my mind with modern distributorless engines but thinking back to years gone by its probably the best way to describe how it feels, but surely that points to a VVTi issue again.
As per your comment over the V5, i will be checking numbers as it does feel so fundamentally wrong that a different engine is a real possibility, its still a 1zz obviously but could be from anywhere or anything and just dropped in.
As for mentioning the management light, I'm a fleet manager for a very large well known company, nailling people for trying to put one over on me is part of the job remit, these guys have poked the wrong dog!!!! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Guessing what's wrong with it is tough.
The maf could be faulty.
O2 sensors could be dead.
Main cat could be blocked with precat debris.
Vvti actuator or ocv could be duff.
Any combination of the above, only way to be certain would be to plug a reader in and start from there.
I'm meeting with some friends in Stockport for 7pm tomorrow night going for a drive, will have reader with me.
Having a code reader in your toolkit is very handy these days, whenever I've gone to look at cars for people it's one of the first things I do.
Hi wabbit, would have been ideal to hook up with you and plug my car in but I work 12 hour shifts from 6am to 6pm and thats assuming I get out on time. Tend to be on autopilot by the end of a shift, too much so to drive another 20 miles further from home afterward then back again. Thank you, you guys are brilliant, support network alone makes it worth owning a roadster but its genuinely worth the £20- £30 to get it checked on Weds morning round the corner from home on the way to the dealer rather than prolonging my day tomorrow....guess I'm just lazy!
I have seen a few times where a newer engine was dropped in (even by Toyota), and they've ignored the fact the catalyst was blocked. Result is they just ruin another engine.
[quote="wallzaveerz" these guys have poked the wrong dog!!!! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: [/quote]
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Love it!
This is looking favourite wabbit, although I suspect Toyota themselves havent featured in the equation. also of interest is it has a private plate, now to me a plate is kept and transferred from car to car, call me cynical but for me a car equipped with a private plate has been parted from its owner with none of the transfer delays for a very good reason!! Just spiss piss spiss ed off I've been had over to be honest, had over 70 cars in 20 years and never really had my fingers burned.
I think this has died previously and had some convenient ex taxi lump dropped in that is simply worn out. Also got a sneaky feeling from the gutsy noise it makes that I will find the pre-cats already removed from the manifold, its information easily found on here, for the rest of the car to be so mechanically poor it makes no sense whatsoever that the pre-cat issue would not be part of the existing issues, but it genuinely doesn't appear to be the case on this car. It actually sounds a little better since I've had it, just still very unwell.
Code reader will help identify the problem, I would look at pre cats blocking the main cat, and by blocking I mean restricting the air flow partly. Also as a possibility I know a warn out crank sensor can cause similar issues.
On a side note the VVTI is not a vtec ar all in fact its the opposite. It pulls the timming out so to make it more emmissions friendly during closed loop. When you rev hard or open it up it goes into open loop and forgets its even a vvti.
It does feel as if the engine is being physically restricted, the VVTi bit you've said still makes perfect sense though, if it is not working properly could it be stuck in the closed loop scenario, thus remaining more emissions friendly and not releasing the full potential of the engine?
To add to the conundrum, just returned from the local tame garage owner who very kindly plugged his code reader in for free......no stored faults!!
I'm heading into town now to a guy he has recommended who specializes in Japanese sports cars as he thinks he may have the equipment to have a deeper dig into things, this is going to cost money now though and I just have the feeling that would be the start of a long slippery slope if I keep the car. Need to do this one though purely so I know what is actually wrong with the car when I take it back on Wednesday, I wont be taking anything or anybody at face value now.
im sorry to hear about everything thats gone on and im sure will put a dampener on MR2 ownership for you.. hopefully when this guy who is a specialist in jap cars can locate something and could be a relatively easy and cheap fix for you (or should i say the garage).. if worse comes to worst are you going to be taking it back and perhaps look at another MR2?
Ive had a proper look through its history today, its only done 1500 miles a year between MOTs since 2009, I was told it had come from a little old lady who had traded it in for a freelander as she could no longer get in or out of it. If its spent the last 4 years of its life at less than 2000rpm and at 28mph and only come out of the garage to go to the shop a few miles away once a week and been serviced in accordance with mileage rather than timescales, its just possible everything is just a bit bunged up.
Lifted my spirits a bit today that there isn't a list of fault codes the length of my arm. After having the codes checked and leafing through its history I decided to take it out on a proper run and ring its neck to see if that improved things, it is definitely revving more freely now and I've identified at least one of the noises as a tut from the manifold somewhere, and either the chain tensioner or v belt tensioner is rattly but I can live with that for now.
I need to get the gearbox issue dealt with but after today I am certainly more prepared for the dealer to give it a complete engine service and new fluid in the gear box rather than demand replacements immediately.
To answer your question Pavett, if I do return the car I would love to replace it with another roadster, I have even discussed buying another members car already, certainly my heart says yes. After reading all the horror stories on here though my opinion and personal experience is that the 1zz is a bit of a dog, and my head duly says no. If I find myself with a wad of cash in my hand and a nice example in front of me I don't know which way I would lean at present.
All I will say is I have definitely bonded with mine in the few hours Ive spent thrashing it round today.
at least you have a better idea mate and you can look to get this resolved hopefully as easily and efficiently as possible..
its good to hear your not so much as put off by your experience and i wish you all the best s:D :D s:D
Hi guys, bit of an update, had the 2 back to the dealer, couldnt find an issue, i have no ammunition as the places I've had it found no stored faults either. Read a post tonight by colin201, sounds very similar to his, just thrashy and wont rev to 6000rpm, plenty torque low down. Got absolutely destroyed by a fiesta zetec between roundabouts a few days ago and we have a local checkpoint which involves a junction and a local landmark, anything worth its salt will pull 60 by the landmark, even my previous old barge, a naturally aspirated 2 litre and very very slow Saab 900 convertible could just about manage it, my MR2 can manage about 48!
Just been serviced, oil was ok and on the mark, it doesnt use any, plugs were all ok if showing signs of running slightly lean, they were all at the grey end of brown. Really baffled, it seems favourite that the VVti isnt working, although it seems to from cold and stops once up to temp.
Sorry to hear the dealer hasn't fixed it for you. Stored codes are not the only ammunition though, if it doesn't go properly, then there is something wrong with it that they should fix. If the dealer refuses to do anything, then I guess you would need to start investigating things one by one, till you arrive at the solution. Cheapest and easiest is cleaning the Mass Air Flow sensor in the intake. Though it does sound like the main cat could be blocked possibly. How has the oil consumption been?
Closed loop when cold. I would look at a maf swop with someone to see if it cures the issue.
MAF sensor was the first thing I tried, it was spotless to begin with but gave it a good dose of carb cleaner anyway to be sure, i also reset the ECU at the same time, no difference whatsoever. There is no oil consumption of note, negligible if any at all. Serviced the car on Tuesday and the oil was still on the mark from when I bought it.
It makes a lot of induction noise when its pulling, as if the top is not on the airbox properly or a pipe has come off somewhere which would also explain the symptoms but I cant find anything that isn't as it should be.
Did find a couple of loose bolts on the cam cover and sealant round the sump when I serviced it so it has obviously been apart at some point in its life, with the inherent faults this engine suffers from in the MR2 and at this age/ mileage I suppose that is to be expected though.
My intention was to pull the manifold off yesterday and have a look at the cats but I got rained off. It will be the first job on my list on my next day off on Tuesday. It does feel like it is trying, it seems to attempt to go properly at about 3000rpm then drops back off and it does sometimes pick up considerably at 4K as Im assuming it should but usually only does this for a short time from cold.
As per my previous posts, pretty baffled by it.
Quote from: "rbuckingham"Closed loop when cold. I would look at a maf swop with someone to see if it cures the issue.
Thanks, i will give this a whirl. It is intermittent which says to me it isnt a blocked cat or a timing issue.
When I got mine it had a really cheap induction kit on it and it would stop pulling at 5500rpm. Replaced induction kit with standard system and it was fine. I'd decide what route you want to do as you could spend a lot of money chasing the fault. Speak to your local trading standards and see what they say, it's amazing how places back down when they get involved.
Quote from: "wallzaveerz"Quote from: "rbuckingham"Closed loop when cold. I would look at a maf swop with someone to see if it cures the issue.
Thanks, i will give this a whirl. It is intermittent which says to me it isnt a blocked cat or a timing issue.
+1 on the MAF swap, other than the lack of error codes, your car sounds very similar to my 1st one:
Quote from: "KTM_RIDER"Bought my W reg. Mk3 3 months ago on Ebay for under 2k (a repaired cat D write off - rear panel damage) after only about 10 years of wanting one !
I noticed right away that the car was a bit spluttery and hesitant at low speed (felt like it might cut out at junctions unless you kept the revs up) and later discovered that it simply refused to rev above 5500rpm with the engine under load (i.e. in gear). it also just felt underpowered and had generally poor / jerky throttle response.
The CEL was off BUT, I then noticed that it NEVER comes on, (presumably it should light as a self test when you turn on the ignition, like all the other warning lights!!). s:x :x s:x
So after a few weeks sulking over having skinted myself just to buy a possible lemon, I decided to invest in a U380 OBD2 code reader for £20 (Ebay).
the U380 came back with the p0171 & p0174 error codes, so (after trawling this forum) I decided to clean the MAF, disconnect the battery for 30 mins and then go for a drive.
The car was virtually undriveable at first, but then just went back to being merely a bit sh*t after a few miles like it was before!
So, I bit the bullet and ordered a new MAF from 'glowpugman' on Ebay as per the above link. Tried an offer of £43 and it was accepted!
Just come back from a 20 mile drive and the car is transformed, was grinning like an idiot from ear to ear as I threaded it round the tighter bends on the local back roads. s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "KTM_RIDER"Quote from: "wallzaveerz"Quote from: "rbuckingham"Closed loop when cold. I would look at a maf swop with someone to see if it cures the issue.
Thanks, i will give this a whirl. It is intermittent which says to me it isnt a blocked cat or a timing issue.
+1 on the MAF swap, other than the lack of error codes, your car sounds very similar to my 1st one:
Quote from: "KTM_RIDER"Bought my W reg. Mk3 3 months ago on Ebay for under 2k (a repaired cat D write off - rear panel damage) after only about 10 years of wanting one !
I noticed right away that the car was a bit spluttery and hesitant at low speed (felt like it might cut out at junctions unless you kept the revs up) and later discovered that it simply refused to rev above 5500rpm with the engine under load (i.e. in gear). it also just felt underpowered and had generally poor / jerky throttle response.
The CEL was off BUT, I then noticed that it NEVER comes on, (presumably it should light as a self test when you turn on the ignition, like all the other warning lights!!). s:x :x s:x
So after a few weeks sulking over having skinted myself just to buy a possible lemon, I decided to invest in a U380 OBD2 code reader for £20 (Ebay).
the U380 came back with the p0171 & p0174 error codes, so (after trawling this forum) I decided to clean the MAF, disconnect the battery for 30 mins and then go for a drive.
The car was virtually undriveable at first, but then just went back to being merely a bit sh*t after a few miles like it was before!
So, I bit the bullet and ordered a new MAF from 'glowpugman' on Ebay as per the above link. Tried an offer of £43 and it was accepted!
Just come back from a 20 mile drive and the car is transformed, was grinning like an idiot from ear to ear as I threaded it round the tighter bends on the local back roads. s:D :D s:D
Your description of how your car drove is virtually identical to mine, not getting the fault codes you had which is a bit of a worry but everything else is virtually a carbon copy of how mine is behaving.
I have already had a look on ebay today for a MAF sensor, found a guy local to me who breaks roadsters and he has quoted me £25 for a replacement, he has also extremely kindly offered to let me go and try the new sensor in my car before I buy it to check it is that before I spend any more money.
hope that sorts it out for you, will be the best £25 you ever spend if it does s:D :D s:D
If you are happy with the bit of a journey your very best bet is to call Matt and arrange a slowish drive down to Brum for him to look it over for you. It may take a while and it may end up with you having to pay out a few notes, but he is THE man when it comes to these cars. Sorted mine out within 10 minutes of meeting him, diagnosed the problem, arranged to do the work (lent me a courtesy car while mine was being worked on) and all completed, including a new clutch, in a week. It now runs like a new car! Mine is a 2000 car with 86K on the clock and had stood for 6 months on SORN. Mattperformance in the Associates section.
Good luck, once it's sorted you will be over the moon with it.
Quote from: "Paul-B"Good luck, once it's sorted you will be over the moon with it.
I finish work at 6am and on a couple of the very coldest mornings since I bought it it has worked perfectly on the drive home. This morning it was really cold and lo and behold it drove at what I assume is 100%.
The difference is incredible, it is like a different car, "Over the Moon" certainly covers it when it runs like that.
Also reassuring is that it IS capable of doing so, it is intermittent so definitely looking like a something and nothing relatively cheap/ easy fix. Next jobs are pre cats out and replacement MAF sensor. I will update with the results when these have been done.
Again, thanks to everybody for your help.
Hi, what temp does it get to?
My son's Soarer had similar issues, found the thermostat sticking causing it to run too rich.
Sits happily at about the half way mark, not running overly hot, heaters work properly and warm up quite quickly so I would say not pointing to the thermostat.
Right guys, said id be back with an update after I'd done some work. Some good news but not the complete happy ending I was waiting for, but progress none the less.
Got round to trying a new MAF sensor this morning, car drove like a bag of sshit shit sshit on the way to the guy's place so a good starting point to check for any obvious improvement, on the way there the car wouldn't pull beyond 85 mph on the motorway. Tried the first replacement MAF sensor and that made things even worse, sounded like it was running on three, so that one went in the bin, a good sign in a way as it proves changing these things can make a fundamental change immediately, put the second one in and what a difference, ticked over smooth as silk straight away and happily revved round to the red line.
Plugged the code reader in and finally got some codes back from the depths of the ECU, kicking myself that I didn't write down the absolute specifics but the jist of the faults was as follows:-
1st code was a catalyst efficiency issue on the 'first bank???' does that sound right experts?? I guessed at maybe an o2 sensor fault being responsible for that so picked a couple of replacements up while I was there.
2nd code was a camshaft position sensor fault, which also corresponds with how the car drives to me as I've said from day one it feels like a VVti issue.
So, codes cleared, new MAF sensor fitted I head for home, about 25 miles of motorway driving, initially the car drove like a pig, cut out twice at roundabouts in the first mile, it was so bad I considered turning round and going asking for my money back, but all of a sudden it sorted itself out and started to drive properly, worth noting we never disconnected the battery so the ECU had not been reset at this point. So now, MASSIVE improvement in throttle response, noticeable step change in performance at 4000rpm, happily revving round in lower gears, I thought we had cracked it. Get on the motorway, zipping through the gears, huge grin on my face, all is good.......85mph approaches....thud! Brick wall. Still doesn't have the guts to pull through 85mph in top......or fourth for that matter!
Bear in mind at this point I still have two replacement o2 sensors to fit, I get home with the days plans consisting of pulling the pre cats out. Pull my original o2 sensors out, peer inside......someone has beaten me to it. relief and disappointment in equal measure, relief that I now know why I have no oil burning issues and that somebody has already taken care of business, disappointed that subconsciously i'd been hoping getting rid of broken pre cats would be the miracle cure I craved. Could the absence of the pre cats be generating the fault code about catalyst efficiency?
Seeing as Ive had an irritating manifold 'tut' since I bought the car and have already invested in 30 quids worth of genuine Toyota gaskets and sealing rings I decided to pull the manifold anyway, glad i did, to say this car has been bodged is an understatement, only two heat shield bolts are left not snapped in, going to do away with the shields altogether and heat wrap the manifold instead, the two brackets under the manifold that bolt to the block were hanging loose, stripped threads and missing studs abound in the manifold to flexi pipe flange and there has been massive overuse of exhaust paste.
My manifold is now with a local garage, all broken studs will be drilled, removed and re threaded with new studs fitted, I have disconnected the battery overnight, tomorrow i will reinstall the manifold PROPERLY with gaskets rather than exhaust paste and bolt everything up properly as Toyota intended.
So....lets see what tomorrow brings with a reset ECU, a new MAF sensor that has already proved it improves things, two new o2 sensors and a properly fitted, gas tight exhaust system. Hoping for a miracle? probably...a bit.
Did you get a camshaft position sensor today as well?
Quote from: "wallzaveerz"1st code was a catalyst efficiency issue on the 'first bank???' does that sound right experts?? I guessed at maybe an o2 sensor fault being responsible for that so picked a couple of replacements up while I was there.
2nd code was a camshaft position sensor fault, which also corresponds with how the car drives to me as I've said from day one it feels like a VVti issue.
Happy days s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Bucks mentioned a few posts back a faulty crank position sensor which doesn't throw a code BUT it could show as a faulty cam sensor (that's what can happen on my Z3).
Or, it could in fact be the cam sensor which would cause the sort of problems you have (that's also what happened with my Z3).
The O2 sensors have a pretty narrow window of operation and just wouldn't cause the problem you are getting.
No, a bit in the dark as to this side of things. Wont be an issue to revisit and get one, where is it located and how can i check it? Guy I got the bits off by his own admission is not a mechanic, strips broken Mk3s and sells the bits. Has basic knowledge but doesn't profess to being a mechanic. Ironically I am a qualified mechanic and time served heavy goods fitter but still no specific model knowledge on the MR2 roadster.
Quote from: "mrzwei"Quote from: "wallzaveerz"1st code was a catalyst efficiency issue on the 'first bank???' does that sound right experts?? I guessed at maybe an o2 sensor fault being responsible for that so picked a couple of replacements up while I was there.
2nd code was a camshaft position sensor fault, which also corresponds with how the car drives to me as I've said from day one it feels like a VVti issue.
Happy days :.:
Bucks mentioned a few posts back a faulty crank position sensor which doesn't throw a code BUT it could show as a faulty cam sensor (that's what can happen on my Z3).
Or, it could in fact be the cam sensor which would cause the sort of problems you have (that's also what happened with my Z3).
The O2 sensors have a pretty narrow window of operation and just wouldn't cause the problem you are getting.
Is this another pretty easy something or nothing fix. Sick of chasing gremlins round the system.
If you want to come over and change the sensers one weekend give me a shout. I've ordered the toyota tis software and lead but dont know when it will arrive but have a elm reader that can also log what the car is doing on the road as well. Like I said ive got a complete engine here with all the sensers on it that were working I know its not the best way to diagnose a problem but if it gets sorted by changing one part at a time wtf. I know where you went today the guy wont let you have the part unless he knows it works or if it fails he will change it. Whats the car like if you give it full beans in the lower gears as mine doesn't half come to life after 4000 in top gear nearly as good as my old 944.
Quote from: "wallzaveerz"Quote from: "mrzwei"Quote from: "wallzaveerz"1st code was a catalyst efficiency issue on the 'first bank???' does that sound right experts?? I guessed at maybe an o2 sensor fault being responsible for that so picked a couple of replacements up while I was there.
2nd code was a camshaft position sensor fault, which also corresponds with how the car drives to me as I've said from day one it feels like a VVti issue.
Happy days :.:
Bucks mentioned a few posts back a faulty crank position sensor which doesn't throw a code BUT it could show as a faulty cam sensor (that's what can happen on my Z3).
Or, it could in fact be the cam sensor which would cause the sort of problems you have (that's also what happened with my Z3).
The O2 sensors have a pretty narrow window of operation and just wouldn't cause the problem you are getting.
Is this another pretty easy something or nothing fix. Sick of chasing gremlins round the system.
The code reader shows a camshaft position sensor fault, the symptoms you describe are consistent with a cam position sensor fault ( runs ok one minute then next time it's a dog) and you say it feels like a valve timing issue. Personally, I'd check the crank sensor first (on the clutch side of the engine I think and down a bit, wiggle the connector and spray some electrical stuff). Crank sensor faults are usually on / off. Then the cam sensor, don't know where that is because I sold the car but I had the exact problem on the Z3 and a new one solved the problem.
The reason I said crank sensor is due to its Postion and has been seen before that alot of corosion builds up around it.
On a side note I do find it funny how we talk about a guy without saying his name as he use to be a member lol.
Quote from: "cabbydave"If you want to come over and change the sensers one weekend give me a shout. I've ordered the toyota tis software and lead but dont know when it will arrive but have a elm reader that can also log what the car is doing on the road as well. Like I said ive got a complete engine here with all the sensers on it that were working I know its not the best way to diagnose a problem but if it gets sorted by changing one part at a time wtf. I know where you went today the guy wont let you have the part unless he knows it works or if it fails he will change it. Whats the car like if you give it full beans in the lower gears as mine doesn't half come to life after 4000 in top gear nearly as good as my old 944.
Hi Cabbydave, i think its fair to say everybody knows who i have been dealing with now!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: Nice guy and knows his stuff. Sounds like a plan to have a ride over and have a play around until we solve the problem, like you say, a part at a time is not the ideal scenario for solving a problem but as long as the parts are cheap its not too much of an issue.
I dont get every weekend off, I work four on four off I'll be working Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue on my next four in but if you let me know when you are available I could have a ride over. Odd you should mention a 944, I had a run in with one the other day on one of the rare occasions when my car was working properly. He was dead in the water after the first corner, even surprised me!
My 2 isnt as good as the 944 on corners I dont think the guy can drive
Morning all, back again like a bad smell. Think I may have finally nailed the problem down, after removal of pre-cats, replacement of MAF sensor, both pre-cat O2 sensors, the crank position sensor, manifold gasket and sealing rings and a full service....oh and ascertaining that it isnt burning oil which is probably due to what appears to be signs of a fairly recent rebuild, I'm still suffering a major lack of power. Since I did a proper job of resealing the exhaust system it has gone even worse and now hisses from the manifold to exhaust flange when under load, the hiss is a very different sound to a normal exhaust 'blow', a fairly big indicator that my main cat is badly blocked and was probably over looked when everything else was dealt with by the previous owner.
Two questions, firstly could this happen intermittently? I would expect a blocked cat to be blocked at a fairly constant level, mine does seem to have good days and bad days but is never perfect.
Second, we have a local business who build bespoke exhaust systems as well as smaller exhaust mods, I have used them on a number of my previous cars and they are very good, it is my intention to take my cat pipe to them and have it turned into a de-cat pipe thus removing the potential issue, I have 11 months until next MOT so sorting a proper replacement before then is no problem but it is my intention to put a decent aftermarket exhaust on eventually and dont want to blow any serious money on the existing system in the meantime. So my question is will the removal of the main cat cause me any running issues or would it just throw up an annoying engine management light, not an issue on mine as some cowboy has already disabled it previously?
ITS FIXED!!!!!!!!
No longer has any cats of any description, main one had collapsed so just cut out and replaced with straight pipe, will obviously need to remedy this before next MOT in 10 months time, hopefully with some nice aftermarket stuff, but I finally have the car I thought I was buying in the first place and it is utterly utterly brilliant.
Can concentrate on making it pretty now!
Great news!
Well done persevering with it, be aware you will get an engine light for the cat not being there ... if you check the engine code it will be P0420.
There is a relatively cheap fix for it by fitting an O2 sensor spacer available via your favourite auction site.
Great news ... and the sun is out! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Fantastic news! Perfect example of showing how patience is a virtue!
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Great news!
Well done persevering with it, be aware you will get an engine light for the cat not being there ... if you check the engine code it will be P0420.
There is a relatively cheap fix for it by fitting an O2 sensor spacer available via your favourite auction site.
There'll be no engine light. As per one of my previous posts some ne'er do well has already beaten me to that one. I know it looks like I've had to do loads to get to this point but the cost of all the bits and pieces and the cat work has come in at a shade under £100 to get it running properly.
I can live with that!
Result s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Now get a very satisfying rifle crack from the exhaust going from second to third if pushing hard when its hot.
Need a slightly less girly tail pipe now to capitalise on it!
Love a happy ending s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: . Your horror story has reminded me of how I baught from a no to reliable dealer. I better go outside and check my stored fault codes.