Just been crawling around under a brand new '2, and it seems that Toyota have made some not so subtle changes, that have effectivley made aftermarket member braces un-nessesary.
I was sat in a chair next to the car, when I spotted a large metal structure underneath just ahead of the front wheel. Basically there is now a massive fabricated brace that extends from the chassis rails forward under the front suspension to very nearly the front bumper. Its very securly bolted in multiple places and is accompanied by some very sturdy looking black tubular cross braces. I'd say it serves as both some very serious suspension bracing, and as an addititional deformabale crash structure, perhaps for an upcoming EURO NCAP test? Or maybe additional bracing to enable compaitibility with TMC's chassis requirements to cope with the additional demands of a turbo installation? (Thats just my speculation by the way - dont quote me!)
Anyway, heres the pics. Apologies for the quality, they were taken on my phone...
Taken from under the right sill, looking forward.
(http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/GSB04brace1.jpg)
(http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/GSB04brace2.jpg)
Taken from ahead of the right front wheel, looking back. not the proximity of the front bumper!
(http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/GSB04brace3.jpg)
Just to show the difference from earlier cars, heres a pic of the pre '03 car, (I cant remember who's) with the additional TRD brace fitted. A copy of this brace is standard on '03 models, but its nothing compared to the steelwork on the latest cars... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
(http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/GSBfrontmembrac.jpg)
Do you think that these could be retro fitted to a pre 03?
I'm sure anythings possible, but I cant say for sure without getting one up on a ramp...
solution: everyone take an 04 out on a 24hr testdrive, get it up on the ramps, 'transfer the brace' , take it back to toyota (who wont even notice) and "bobs ya uncle!" s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Is there a difference between the 03 & 04 then? Might have a look under mine if i get a chance tomorrow.
Hummm, I'll have to take a peek under mine. Can't say I noticed them when fiting the anti-flex plate. s:? :? s:?
These braces, plus the heavier rear wheels, are what adds a bit of weight to the '03 and up cars. My guess is 40-45lbs heavier than '02. I have not seen official numbers. Everyone who has driven both says the braces make a big difference.
Quote from: "Beanie"The last pic is of a TRD part (says so right on it) that looks (as far as geometry) just like what's under my '03 (USA model) and I would not be surprised if the other braces are there, too (my car is too low to see under all that well). I don't see "TRD" on my part, so I'm a little confused. These braces, plus the heavier rear wheels, are what adds a bit of weight to the '03 and up cars. My guess is 40-45lbs heavier than '02. I have not seen official numbers. Everyone who has driven both says the braces make a big difference.
The last pic is there for the purposes of comparison (says so right above it). Its what the underside used to look like.
Boy, you are quick. I realized that and edited my post. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rather assumed these would be on the 03 as well, just dashed out in the rain to check, but I couldn't spot this.. s:?: :?: s:?:
(http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/GSB04brace3.jpg)
One of my coworkers purchased an '04 a few days ago. I asked her if I could crawl around the underneath of the car and take a few pics, and she said it would be alright. I'll get some pics next time she drives it.
i am getting one to be delivered later in the month so I will check it out right away since I have 03 model...
inteeresting...
Jeez...these braces are pretty substantial. They run from the bottom of the radiator support, all the way back to where the old OEM braces bolted onto the frame rails. There are two smaller bars that attach from the bigger gray braces to a somewhat thick bar that spans across from one frame rail to another.
Passenger side looking towards the back where the two bolts attach to the radiator support.
m http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces1.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces1.jpg) m
Driver's side showing some of the tubular black braces.
m http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces2.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces2.jpg) m
m http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces3.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces3.jpg) m
m http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces4.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces4.jpg) m
m http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces5.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces5.jpg) m
m http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces6.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces6.jpg) m
This pic is from the passenger side just behind the wheel to the dirver's side. This pic is important as the '00-'03 models don't have provisions for the four bolts for the black tubular cross-brace, or provisions for the rear attachment points for the two diagonal tubular braces. Also note that the gray brace goes all the way back to the left...the silver bolt.
m http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces7.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces7.jpg) m
I also found this little thing. I have to wonder how much difference it makes...but it's also something that at least my car cannot use.
m http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces8.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/res7weom/newbraces8.jpg) m
I also believe some of the underbody plastic trim is different...but I didn't notice until looking at the pics later...so I didn't have the opportunity to take more pics of them.
You folks were thr first to notice the difference (thanks), so I'm posting this here first for you guys.
ENJOY!!!...or "Cheers" if that's more British. s8) 8) s8)
Thanks for the additional pictures Joe. I posted the originals but they were more or less ignored both here and on SC as the pics were crap... These show the new braces on the '04 a lot better, and show just how substantial a modification they are. Have you posted them on SC too?
Looks like the theres no way for the TRD brace to fit in there anymore, but I dont think you'd want to put it in anyway. Still got room for an anti-flex though! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I'm speculating here but;
If you remember from the TTE Turbo thread while Toyota were testing 2 of the prototypes in Japan one of the points raised was that they wouldn't sanction it without TTE designing a cross brace to strengthen teh underside of teh car. supposedly because the extra power was causing the chassis to twist slightly.
I wonder if this is the resuklt of that debate, and may indicate that we will drfinately be seeing official sanction from Toyota for the TTE kit soon?
Quote from: "markiii"I wonder if this is the resuklt of that debate, and may indicate that we will drfinately be seeing official sanction from Toyota for the TTE kit soon?
My thoughts exactly....
Quote from: "GSB"Have you posted them on SC too?
Yep.
Considering the announcement that they are discontinuing the Spyder in the US, I'm surprised they took the time to make the change at all. Maybe they really are going make them for the rest of the world for a few more years. They must be up to something.
Oh...and sorry for not linking the pics. I didn't realize that's how things are done here. My apologies.
Quote from: "Joe Schmoe"Considering the announcement that they are discontinuing the Spyder in the US, I'm surprised they took the time to make the change at all. Maybe they really are going make them for the rest of the world for a few more years.
My thoughts about that announcement:
m http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58427#58427 (http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58427#58427) m
More on the 2004 model year improvements from Toyota Australia.
They've done a lot more than meets the eye!...
m http://mr2.toyota.com.au/MR2/HomePage/A ... 20,00.html (http://mr2.toyota.com.au/MR2/HomePage/Article/0,1278,135-161-6420,00.html) m
You're not kidding s:!: :!: s:!:
Still only available as SMT too s:!: :!: s:!:
But at what cost in terms of weight s:? :? s:?
that's what i was thinking mph! though it does say on the toyoya website that the manual is 990kg and 1005kg for the smt, making that a 15kg increase IIRC
Quote from: "Tomr2"that's what i was thinking mph! though it does say on the toyoya website that the manual is 990kg and 1005kg for the smt, making that a 15kg increase IIRC
The differences from local 2000/2004 brochures:
Battery: 48Ah/60Ah
0-100kmh: 7.9s/8.0s
Fuel consumption: 10,1/5,9/7,4l/100km 10,2/5,9/7,4l/100km
(city/highway/combined)
Weight: 975/990 990/1005kg (manual/SMT)
Tyres, rear: 205/50R15 215/45R16
So the pre 2004's seem to be a tenth faster s8) 8) s8)
doesnt surprise me. 15kg extra weight plus more unsprung weight at the driven wheels with the larger and heavier 16" wheels
Quote from: "Tomr2"doesnt surprise me. 15kg extra weight plus more unsprung weight at the driven wheels with the larger and heavier 16" wheels
2003 and 2004 have identical alloy sizes don't they?
And to be honest 15kg difference for the extra confidence you'd probably gain, I know I'd probably go quicker with the bracing. The corky brace, and a strut brace would havea weight penalty but I bet my bottom dollar that would be offset at the track.
Quote from: "MRMike"2003 and 2004 have identical alloy sizes don't they?
Yeah, they do.
Note that I was only comparing 2000/2004 brochures as I don't have anything else. 2003&2004 could have the same time...
But then again, 15kg is about 1.5% from roughly 1000kg. 7.9s+1.5%=8.0s
Also, I have no idea about 2003/2004 weight difference. IIRC, 2003 was already a bit heavier than 2000...
an 03 would be heavier than a 2000, for a start you have the bigger rear wheels. didnt the 03 have some extra bracing too?
Quote from: "MRMike"Quote from: "Tomr2"doesnt surprise me. 15kg extra weight plus more unsprung weight at the driven wheels with the larger and heavier 16" wheels
2003 and 2004 have identical alloy sizes don't they?
And to be honest 15kg difference for the extra confidence you'd probably gain, I know I'd probably go quicker with the bracing. The corky brace, and a strut brace would havea weight penalty but I bet my bottom dollar that would be offset at the track.
round a track mike im certain an '04 would be quicker than a stock '00, i was talking about straight line spped where i think the slightly lighter '00 would pip it.
Just surfing.
Bought my '2 in May so I reckon its the new "stiffened" one. Looked under it in the garage with a flash light and there appears to be a lot of bracing at the front. Not much in the middle, and looking at other threads no different from those pics of peeps who have added a Breast Plate.
BUT..... the handbook says Gross Vehicle Mass is 1225 Kg (SMT 1235), you guys were talking of 990Kg!
Are they adding petrol etc? 235Kg extra sounds an awful lot with not that much degradation in acceleration etc.
Hey, Tem, perhaps Finnish cars are made from Aluminium s:) :) s:)
EDIT EDIT EDIT s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
I think I have half answered my own question. I remembered I had a 2004 brochure stuck away. 990 Kg is the Kerb Weight. I assume they are different, how, I am not sure.
I think 990/975 is kerb weight.
Quote from: "roger"I think I have half answered my own question. I remembered I had a 2004 brochure stuck away. 990 Kg is the Kerb Weight. I assume they are different, how, I am not sure.
AFAIK, Kerb weight is the weight of the car with the driver and some fraction of a tank of fuel (1/2, 1/4, something like that). Whereas gross weight, as the name suggests, I guess is with full set of occupants, tank of juice, luggage, etc. etc.
Quote from: "phil4"AFAIK, Kerb weight is the weight of the car with the driver and some fraction of a tank of fuel (1/2, 1/4, something like that). Whereas gross weight, as the name suggests, I guess is with full set of occupants, tank of juice, luggage, etc. etc.
Yeah, that +1200kg is fully loaded...