Looking at the Spyderchat site it appears there have been quite a number of pre-cat failures over in the US. Are their engine specifications identical to the UK/Euro spec?
In the Daily Telegraph on Saturdays there is a column in the motoring section called Honest John. I sent HJ an email asking whether he had heard of any pre-cat failures - he hadn't but he has now added a paragraph in the section on the MR2 on his website. ( w www.honestjohn.co.uk (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk) w ). Toyota might be more inclined to recognise the problem if it is reported on a national newspaper website. A couple of dealers I phoned said they knew nothing about pre-cat failures.
As yet theres no definite proof that says the pre-cats are a problem.
But, the facts are hard to deny;
Several owners have complained of sudden power loss, massive oil consumption, followed by terminal engine failure. When the engines have been replaced, the majority of owners whose cats were also changed experienced no further problems, Those whose cats were not changed, experienced a repeat engine failure in short order...
Like I said, the facts speak for themselves...
It would appear though, that despite the same spec engine being fittedt ot both US and Euro models, the US owners report a lot more of these failures. Why? Your guess is as good as mine...
Still, its nice to see that MR2-ROC is recognised by some people at least as an authority on this car... But as for Toyota taking notice? Well, you can be pretty confident they're reading this, but I doubt they'll be taking any action...
I've ordered an O2 sensor socket so I can check my pre-cats. What exactly should I be looking out for and how often would you recommend checking them?
Thanks,
Paul
Quote from: "GSB"It would appear though, that despite the same spec engine being fittedt ot both US and Euro models, the US owners report a lot more of these failures. Why? Your guess is as good as mine...
Over 10% of finnish MR2's have blown the engine within warranty...no one knows how many have blown after it s:? :? s:?
There were also several cases on one German MR2 board. I'm not convinced they are more rare in Europe... IIRC, the SC thread had about 50-60 reported cases and they had about 2500 users at that time. MR2ROC has some 700 users, so 14 cases would equal that.
Paul, welcome to the site. As Grant (GSB) said there is no definitive proof, but they do seem to be problematic. I have an 03 car which after 6 months and 6,000 miles destroyed one of the pre-cats.
Good idea to buy the O2 socket also, there is a massive amount of information regarding checking your precats. Grant (GSB) did a write up on how to go about it.
Simply typing "precat" into the search function came up with these to get you started, though if you search your bound to find more.
m http://www.mr2roc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... ght=precat (http://www.mr2roc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3419&highlight=precat) m
m http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44840#44840 (http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44840#44840) m
<First time donning the mod hat>
Given the subject topic is "how many people have had precat problems" guys please don't reply in regard to checking precats as this topic has been covered comprehensively
Cheers,
Mike
Thanks, Mike. When I get the socket I'll have a look and then report back. I guess checking the oil level on a regular basis isn't enough as once the oil consumption starts to increase it's probably too late. I was considering gutting out the pre-cats but the car is going really well at the moment so I don't want to disturb things if I can help it.
can anyone understand japanese? wonder how many cat failures they've had over there? s:? :? s:?
In Japan they have also engine failures but from what I could gather last year from some sites and from the Techno pro spirit BBS they attribute the problem the the high oil temps as the culprit.
Quote from: "CIN"In Japan they have also engine failures but from what I could gather last year from some sites and from the Techno pro spirit BBS they attribute the problem the the high oil temps as the culprit.
They just might have a point there...my cats failed after a day at a track on a very hot day (~80F)...
mine failed s:( :( s:(
What if your pre-cats fail after the 3 year warranty has expired?
Has anyone been in this situation? If so, what did Toyota do or have to say?
I'm interested to know since my car is now over 3 years old and I do not enjoy the idea of a "time-bomb" ticking in my MR2...
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "CIN"In Japan they have also engine failures but from what I could gather last year from some sites and from the Techno pro spirit BBS they attribute the problem the the high oil temps as the culprit.
They just might have a point there...my cats failed after a day at a track on a very hot day (~80F)...
Hi Tem,
I regularly do track days (with temps often over 35C / 95F) and noticed intense heat coming out of the engine compartment. I suspected the sound proofing material wasn't helping with the cooling; and consequently removed it. I was wondering whether it would be better to remove the covers/protections from under the engine compartment too.
Have you or anyone else done that -- to try and prevent overheating the oil and causing pre-cat failure?
Cheers,
John
only choice you've got is to gut them yourself! or you could end up with with a blown engine and a big bill! s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "phat"Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "CIN"In Japan they have also engine failures but from what I could gather last year from some sites and from the Techno pro spirit BBS they attribute the problem the the high oil temps as the culprit.
They just might have a point there...my cats failed after a day at a track on a very hot day (~80F)...
Hi Tem,
I regularly do track days (with temps often over 35C / 95F) and noticed intense heat coming out of the engine compartment. I suspected the sound proofing material wasn't helping with the cooling; and consequently removed it. I was wondering whether it would be better to remove the covers/protections from under the engine compartment too.
Have you or anyone else done that -- to try and prevent overheating the oil and causing pre-cat failure?
Cheers,
John
I have removed the engine cover, and the plastic nappy below the engine to aid cooling. I have no definitive data as to what difference it makes, as I don't have a pocket logger.
A quick search with "Engine AND tray" returned the following results
m http://www.mr2roc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... ngine+tray (http://www.mr2roc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3281&highlight=engine+tray) m
m http://www.mr2roc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... ngine+tray (http://www.mr2roc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=688&highlight=engine+tray) m
<<<okay back to people who have had problems with their precats>>>
Quote from: "MRMike"I have removed the engine cover, and the plastic nappy below the engine to aid cooling. I have no definitive data as to what difference it makes, as I don't have a pocket logger.
<<<okay back to people who have had problems with their precats>>>
I have removed the drip tray (the one under the engine hood holes) and the plastic covers from below and it does make a difference. Before I couldn't use a bare hand to push the hood down to close it, cause it was so hot. Now I can easily rest my hand on the hood forever, it just feels warm.
<<<isn't this still kinda on topic?>>>
removed mine a while ago too, ive also got the manifold heatshield off at the mo too (being paintd) and you can see the heat pouring out the vents in the bonnet when sitting in traffic!
I didn't know J-spec models don't have the "nappies". Perhaps there is a good reason for this (overheating, oil contamination, pre-cat failure s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )
I will have a go at going the bare "J-spec" way.
To re-center the discussion on pre-cats: has anyone had engine failure due to the pre-cats (or the TWC as Toyota calls it) after the warranty ran out? Did they get any form of compensation from Toyota?
I must admit that I am a wee bit p*ssed off at the idea of having to pay (or fight with all the rusted bolts) to get these things gutted out. I wish Toyota would do something about it...
John
Quote from: "phat"I wish Toyota would do something about it...
Big corporations, lack of proof, when pigs fly I'd guess.
Hi everyone,
This is my first post to your website. Lots of great information here. You would think that Toyota would do something about the precat problem given all the negative reports written about it on these websites (...and we all know they are reading this...how about it Toyota!!!)
Well....I took the proactive approach and removed mine (thanks to the detailed instructions written here). I cartainaly am not going to keep that ticking time bomb in my new spyder (1550 miles on the car when I removed them). I will keep everyone posted on how things turn out since this is a new car.
Again thanks everyone, great site.
Ron
Quote from: "MR2 Nut"Hi everyone,
This is my first post to your website. Lots of great information here. You would think that Toyota would do something about the precat problem given all the negative reports written about it on these websites (...and we all know they are reading this...how about it Toyota!!!)
Well....I took the proactive approach and removed mine (thanks to the detailed instructions written here). I cartainaly am not going to keep that ticking time bomb in my new spyder (1550 miles on the car when I removed them). I will keep everyone posted on how things turn out since this is a new car.
Again thanks everyone, great site.
Ron
The only problem with this is that because the car is so new, you may wekll have no invalidated your warranty. If MrT found out that you no longer have a standard part to the car and you have completed work of such a nature yourself, they might waive the warranty altogether and refuse to do any work on the car. This could well be a problem when it comes round to replacing bubbling alloys or dealing with the now famous steering knock.......
I just hope for your sake they don't find out. The noise may just give it away though........
Good luck!!!
Well John, I thought about this too and I have a friend that replaced his stock exhaust manifold with a TRD header and he has given me the stock manifold with the precats still inside them so if there is any real problem with my engine I can always reattach the stock manifold.(I hope Toyota isn't reading this s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ).
Quote from: "phat"To re-center the discussion on pre-cats: has anyone had engine failure due to the pre-cats (or the TWC as Toyota calls it) after the warranty ran out? Did they get any form of compensation from Toyota?
Yeah, mine blew after the warranty. I was told that Toyota Japan is very strict about 3 years, so they didn't cover anything. Toyota Finland covered the whole mess, didn't have to pay a dime. We have a loaw over here that the manufacturer/importer is responsible that an item works for "assumed time", even if there would be no warranty. And surely a new car should have an assumed lifetime of over 3 years s8) 8) s8)
Funny thing though, they insisted on fixing it to stock, which ended up costing them some 8000 euros. I would've settled for half of that in cash, but I guess 2ZZ just wasn't written in my future s:? :? s:?
Add another one to the list if anyone is keeping one.
MrT will check it out fully Monday and contact the warrenties department. (extended warrenty so cross fingers).
Will let you know if the extended warrenties are worth the paper they are written on.
Simon
Quote from: "SimonC_Here"Add another one to the list if anyone is keeping one.
THE list is on Spyderchat, please add yourself there s;) ;) s;)
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46) m
10% seems way too high, Mr2 gets #1 sporty/sports car ratings from dependability studies, unless all of the other sporty/s cars are pure crap......
of course, these are the sites for ethusiasts talking about mr2, and hence you might see more issues here % wise than what happens in the real world.
Quote from: "spwolf"10% seems way too high, Mr2 gets #1 sporty/sports car ratings from dependability studies, unless all of the other sporty/s cars are pure crap......
of course, these are the sites for ethusiasts talking about mr2, and hence you might see more issues here % wise than what happens in the real world.
Did you mean this one?
Quote from: "Tem"Over 10% of finnish MR2's have blown the engine within warranty...no one knows how many have blown after it s:? :? s:?
There are 26 Mk3 MR2's in Finland (1.1.2004) and I know three blown engines over here. That's over 10%, no matter how you think of it s;) ;) s;) The scary part is that I only know 5 Mk3 MR2's over here in the first place, so according to that 60% have blown s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "SimonC_Here"Add another one to the list if anyone is keeping one.
Will let you know if the extended warrenties are worth the paper they are written on.
Simon
Should be fine, my engine was replaced after pre-cat induced failure under extended warranty without any quibbles.
I think the extended warranty is fine for major breakdowns, the things where there would be warranty issues would more likely be silly problems such as wheel bubbling or disks where there is a 'cosmetic' element to the fault, then I think they may query it depending on how good your dealer is.
Oh well, time to see if the extended warrenty is worth the pa.....
Hang on, I've got this weird feeling of dejavu.
Yep, they didn't check the bores 'cos "nothing can happen to the rest of the engine sir" and now I have gone from almost full, clean oil all the way to just above empty, think black oil. In just over a week of the daily commute.
Time to top it up and take it in I think.
s:cry: :cry: s:cry: s:cry: :cry: s:cry: s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Simon