posted on the celica club website by one ofthe members whos an aftersales manager for Mr T
At 4pm today Toyota announced they will be recalling some Celicas and MR2's
6908 UK Celica & MR2 manufactured between Aug 1999 & June 2000 will be recalled
Poss more with euro imports
Some Jap built Corollas will also be included
Potential concerns to the brake master cylinder leaking although only 5% are expected to require replacement. Further technical info will be published to dealers 27th September so please dont contact your dealer to atleast then as they wont have the repair procedures or parts available.
Customer will be contacted by letter Mid October but due to the age its possible cars may have been sold on to a another owner.
Chassis range are;
Celica JTDDR3***0001031 - 0065495
and JTDDY3***0001045 - 0034768
Build dates are July 22 1999 - June 30 2000
MR2 Chassis numbers are
JTDFR3***0005548 - JTDFR3***0021219 (6th Jan 2000 - 30th June 2000)
Heres the technical bit
BasicallyThe recess for holding the rubber seal ring at the end of the master cylinder may be corroded allowing fluid out or possibly air in leading to an increase of vehicle stopping distance.
Only 8 reported cases in Japan
None in UK
Repair will take 50 mins & 3 hrs if replacement part required
Please dont knock the door down of your local dealer as this is all they know untill 27th September.
for your info guys/gals s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "perry190"JTDFR3***0005548 - JTDFR3***0021219 (6th Jan 2000 - 30th June 2000)
I wonder if that applies over here s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
When I saw the post, I thought for a second they were doing the recall to check and fix the pre-cats s:) :) s:) ... (then I remembered Celicas don't have them buggers... s:( :( s:( )
Anyway, thanks for the info. My brake light was going on each time a took a tight bend fast (i.e. often!). It was my brake fluid level that was a bit too low. I wonder if that's due to a leaking master cylinder? My chassis number is right bang in the middle of that series (JTD FR3 20X 14XXX) s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "perry190"Customer will be contacted by letter Mid October but due to the age its possible cars may have been sold on to a another owner.
Safety recalls (which I would guess this is) are normally conducted via DVLA, so this
shouldn't be an issue, although the system has been known to have holes...
Same story from Yahoo! News:
m http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... 0914175446 (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040914/tc_afp/japan_auto_toyota_recall_040914175446) m
I wonder if it is just the master brake cylinder that is at blame?
For our ZZW30 model there are at least two different types of brake servo (master cylinder) used (depending on whether it is the LHD or RHD model) This is documented in the Repair Manual/NCF. I believe they are from two different manufacturers/suppliers. I doubt though, that exactly the same problem would appear on two different parts from two different suppliers...
Yet the message quotes cars from RHD and LHD markets ... s:? :? s:?
Anyway, this may be the opportunity to switch to fully synthetic DOT 5.1 brake fluid.
BTW does anyone know what grade of brake fluid is normally used in the '2?
I've also heard conflicting reports on what is best (DOT 4 vs DOT 5 / 5.1). Many say fully synth DOT 5 or 5.1 is the best, but a mechanic who does racing told me he prefered DOT 4 because it apparently lasts better and longer than the higher grades...
What type do you use?
Quote from: "phat"BTW does anyone know what grade of brake fluid is normally used in the '2?
Owners manual says DOT3 is good enough...
QuoteI've also heard conflicting reports on what is best (DOT 4 vs DOT 5 / 5.1). Many say fully synth DOT 5 or 5.1 is the best, but a mechanic who does racing told me he prefered DOT 4 because it apparently lasts better and longer than the higher grades...
Everyone has an opinion and they are like...and so on s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Basically bigger is better...and silicone based fluids last practically forever as they don't gather moisture. Just note that you can't mix it with normal fluids, so you should get rid of the normal stuff first. Then again good quality DOT3 might be better than some cheap name DOT5, so go for good stuff rather than the numbers.
I also noted that 5.1 felt better in cold than 4...you notice it especially on the clutch.
It's worth noting that Dot 5 and Dot 5.1 are totally different things - Dot 5 is silicone fluid, while Dot 5.1 is basically Dot 4 with a higher boiling point (and is not silicone based).
Here's a few things I found elsewhere that agreed with what I already thought (notably the bit telling you
not to use Dot 5, as it has a tendency to rot brake seals):
- DOT4 will definitely harm paint. DOT5 is silicone based fluid, which is also the one less likely to absorb moisture. Unfortunately Brembo specifically recommends against using silicone based fluids in their products, citing chemical incompatibility with the composition of their rubber. DOT3 and DOT4 are American test performance standards, not chemical content standards. In Europe and Japan (probably the rest of the world) brake fluid meeting DOT3 standards was superseded by European standards years (decades?) ago. Those European standards are what DOT4 is intended to match. Todd#389.
- DOT4 is DOT4, no matter whose name is on the bottle or how much more than the $0.89/pint stuff it co$t$ (with a BMW label). DOT3, DOT4 brake fluid differences? Just boiling point. But this idea does NOT hold for any other DOT ratings, ONLY 3 and 4. Flash.
- Also, DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 are all water based and I believe can be interchanged and mixed without problems. DOT 5 is a whole different beast, and not recommended. Mason #631 - 97ST in PA.
- FYI you can get racing brake fluid with a higher boiling point. This way it can heat more without fade. The Brembo breaks on the BMW are really good parts just need to have fluid that can handle it too. The name of one brand is fast blue I think. Don, Rochester, NY. You do NOT need this Type of Brake Fluid and it MAY have other considerations you are not aware of. Do not be tempted, unless you KNOW what you are doing. ed.
Aaron (going back to listening to the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy on Radio 4 now s;) ;) s;) )
Quote from: "aaronjb"It's worth noting that Dot 5 and Dot 5.1 are totally different things - Dot 5 is silicone fluid, while Dot 5.1 is basically Dot 4 with a higher boiling point (and is not silicone based).
Cheers for the info. I didn't know that. I wonder if DOT 5.1 is an official "DOT" marking or whether it's just used as a marketing gimmick or something like that
You'd automatically think 5.1 is better that 5 (e.g. Windows XP=NT 5.1 better than the previous version Windows 2000 (NT 5)) s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Now I remember that the mechanic did say there was some kind of issue with DOT 5. The only advice he gave me was to use a high quality brand (I think he recommended Castrol?).
So ideally if you do track days on a more or less regular basis, you would go for the non-silicon high boiling point high quality DOT 5.1 ?
May I disagree/correct a bit? s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "aaronjb"DOT4 will definitely harm paint.
I've used DOT3 and DOT5.1 to get rid of paint as well. I think it's safe to say that they all harm paint.
Many say that DOT5 might harm rubber seals, but I've never heard of anyone actually having that issue. I've used it for some 5 years in Mk1 MR2 without any issues, so maybe it will do something in 10 years, I don't know. Just never heard of it, except the rumours. Maybe that's just an issue with older cars...or manufacturers playing safe?
QuoteDOT4 is DOT4, no matter whose name is on the bottle
It's true that DOT4 is DOT4. But one fluid with DOT4 rating is different from another fluid with DOT4 rating. DOT just sets some minimum standards that the fluid has to have. You should find info about DOT ratings from m http://www.dot.gov/ (http://www.dot.gov/) m
It's kinda like saying all API SJ 0W-40 engine oils are the same, cause they qualify for the same rating. Or that all 98 octane fuels are the same.
QuoteAlso, DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 are all water based and I believe can be interchanged and mixed without problems.
Actually they are glycol based...and shouldn't be mixed. Mixing can cause some issues, like corroding...but then again, I've never heard of this issue either, but I guess it's possible.
QuoteFYI you can get racing brake fluid with a higher boiling point. This way it can heat more without fade.
If you boil the fluid, you don't really fade the brakes, you totally lose them...don't ask me how I know s:? :? s:?
Simple answer: Motul 600.
Listed as DOT4 but with dry/wet temperature points way above the DOT5 spec (see below). It's cheap and you don't have to worry about any issues of compatibility since it's still mineral-based, like DOT3. Just flush and replace. I don't have any evidence not to use 5.1, but why take the risk?
DOT 3 DOT 4 DOT 5
Dry boiling point (deg F) 401 446 500
Wet boiling point (deg F) 284 311 356
Motul 600 spec is 593/420
Quote from: "Tem"May I disagree/correct a bit? s8) 8) s8)
No you may not, take it all back.. take it all back I say! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s;) ;) s;)
Must admit, I didn't actually read that list too closely s:oops: :oops: s:oops: , just lifted it off another site.. <looks innocent>
I also know of someone using Silicone fluid, however his car is a 90% track car. Not heard from him in a while though - maybe what they say about it eating brake seals is true s;) ;) s;) Then again, brake seals can go from age & heat just as easily (quite a problem on the 300's, one day you go for a drive and find you have very wet wheels..)
Anyhoo, I'd just stick with DOT 4 fluid from a major brand personally, unless my car was either turbocharged or I was thinking of caning it's nether regions around a track for an extended period, in which case I'd go for something like the Motul 600 that Martin mentioned..
Mind, I do drive like a granny..
Just found out the main Toyota dealer here supplies DOT 5.1 as standard and so does all the Renault Express centres. (Apparently it's not very expensive.)
I think I've got DOT 4 at the moment and it seems to work fine (even under heavy duties). However, the fluid level went down lately (my brake light was flashing in bends)
Might actually go for the Motul fluid (even if it's more expensive -- it's not like you change your brake fluid every week anyway s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )
Just back to the original topic - has anyone yet recieved any details about the recall from Toyota ?
My car appears to be in the range of chassis serial numbers concerned by the recall. However, I still haven't received anything yet.
i havent heard from Toyota, so i contacted them today. Mr T say the service manager had heard nothing about a recall but was interested in finding out my source. If the source is valid they will perform the recall.
Is there anything formal that i can present to them? Where is the Celica origional post? Had there been an update or had MR T contacted some people yet?
Thanks for any help, if this goes well it might be handy for others wanting their breaks checked too.
m http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp (http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp) m is the official UK recall database; on which there are currently no recalls for the MR2 listed.
thanks, sounds like a false report then? s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Quote from: "vibratingsky"thanks, sounds like a false report then? s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
IIRC, the original news was in Yahoo news and only about a recall in US with given production numbers. Maybe someone draw their own conclusions that the same production numbers apply in UK?
(no idea really, just guessing here)
Quote from: "Tem"IIRC, the original news was in Yahoo news and only about a recall in US with given production numbers. Maybe someone draw their own conclusions that the same production numbers apply in UK?
We also quite often don't get recalls that are issued in other countries - case in point being the power transistor unit on the Nissan 300ZX - in the US and Japan a recall was issued around 1994 and a different model PTU is supplied out there (you can't even order the old model) due to the original model suffering vibration/heat related failures.
In the UK they still supply the old model (for £400, the new model is £170 from the US!) and no such recall was issued...
Good eh? s;) ;) s;)
I know it's dragging an old topic up but I thought this was good reason.
Was just on IMOC and found the following, it's dated yesterday so I assume it's new.
From Autoexpress:
"A brake fault has forced Toyota to recall nearly 2500 MR2 Roadsters. The firm admits there is a risk of a seal in the brake master cylinder corroding, allowing fluid to leak out and leading to longer stopping distances"
Don't know if that's the full article or not so i'm going to have a wander down the shop tomorrow morning to see for myself.
Quote from: "pmdye"http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/default.asp is the official UK recall database; on which there are currently no recalls for the MR2 listed.
Still nothing on the VOSA database though.
keep me posted. i have one of the early models s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Seen as someone had just received a letter I thought that I would revisit this post - despite the fact that my car was manufactured between the dates given and the chassis number falls within the parameters mentioned above I have called Toyota GB and they cannot see that it is due a recall for the brakes, just that wiring loom one - weird!
Always had the opinion that my brakes are not A1, was hoping that this was going to be the cure for it, obviously not!