Hi All,
MR2 Mk3 53 plate facelift manual 6 speed TTE pack
As a Newbie on here, I have posted a couple of times, mostly nothing of importance and a little tongue in cheek most of the time. However, this time a more sensible topic.
I am having some handling issues at speed, the car is very skittish in straight lines and I am wondering why. Many on here have offed their advice and to be honest I'm a little lost as to which way to go. Is it steering, tyres, geometry, cross member, so many things to choose from I am spoilt for choice. I have check tyre pressures front and rear, cross member looks in good nick shokers may be an issue as seller said he had replaced ONE Hmmmmm. The car is booked in on Saturday for a four wheel alignment check and I will get them to have a swift look underneath while they are there as well.
I have looked at the tyres and the fronts are Puma Enduro's the rears are Noble Sports, anyone heard of these as they are both new to me and I suspect a some cheap budget jobs. . I may be wrong but this may be where my trouble lays. I ride a ZZR1100 and I know from posting on many bike forums that tyres are a very subjective thing, you say patarto, I say potato, both brands are new to me.. Anyone had experience of either of these brands before?
They both sound like budget-rubbish to me. Get a decent matching set all round in correct sizes (personally I liked Toyo T1-R or Uniroyal Rainsport 2's on a daily-driver MR2) and get your proper 4-wheel alignment done, and I'd be sure it would sort the problem.
Difficult to pin down problems like this, one thing to note though: isn't an Enduro tyre usually a mixed use/off roads tyre? Probably not the best choice for this type of car? As far as the Noble tyre, isn't that a cheap Chinese brand? A full set of Toyo's only cost me just over £260 today.
Quote from: "Midlifecrisisman"Hi All,
MR2 Mk3 53 plate facelift manual 6 speed TTE pack
As a Newbie on here, I have posted a couple of times, mostly nothing of importance and a little tongue in cheek most of the time. However, this time a more sensible topic.
I am having some handling issues at speed, the car is very skittish in straight lines and I am wondering why. Many on here have offed their advice and to be honest I'm a little lost as to which way to go. Is it steering, tyres, geometry, cross member, so many things to choose from I am spoilt for choice. I have check tyre pressures front and rear, cross member looks in good nick shokers may be an issue as seller said he had replaced ONE Hmmmmm. The car is booked in on Saturday for a four wheel alignment check and I will get them to have a swift look underneath while they are there as well.
I have looked at the tyres and the fronts are Puma Enduro's the rears are Noble Sports, anyone heard of these as they are both new to me and I suspect a some cheap budget jobs. . I may be wrong but this may be where my trouble lays. I ride a ZZR1100 and I know from posting on many bike forums that tyres are a very subjective thing, you say patarto, I say potato, both brands are new to me.. Anyone had experience of either of these brands before?
Shocks should be renewed in pairs so suggest that could also be an issue
As you say tyres is a big can of worms preference is correctly staggered all the same brand and the best you can afford don't skimp
Hi
Tyres are very budget, a mid range or premium would make a huge difference, I have Bridgestone Adrenaline on mine, other premium options are Yokohama and Toyo, a Nexen is a good mid range option.
I'd recommend getting it tracked as well I charge £30 plus vat for tracking and it makes a huge difference, unfortunately I'm a little far from you to do any work but do check out w www.hometyre.co.uk (http://www.hometyre.co.uk) w I'm pretty sure we have coverage in your area.
Those tyres are sshit shit sshit e!
Agree get a full alignment done not just tracking.
Somebody replaced ONE shock?
If you can afford it treat yourself to a new set.
Handling is what this car is all about. Suspension and tyres are what handling is all about imho. For the most part.
Get it sorted. PRONTO.
Thanks to All for your input, I am pretty sure they are some budget rubbish as Ive never heard of either brand. Car is in for a full four wheel alignment on Saturday will get the shocks looked at as well and possibly a complete set of boots at the same time. Just run up the motorway on a very windy day and it was all over the place, quite fun but it would be nice if it stayed in the lane I put it in lol
Tyres are always subjective but personally I'm happy with my OEM Bridestones. Whether I can be persuaded to try something else is up for discussion!
As said other favourites are Yokohama AD08 and Toyo T1R.
A contender I've been looking at is Uniroyal RainSport 3 as they seem to get a good write up but are untested on the 2 as far as I'm aware.
As for your wandering - I would also suggest that you look at your shockers as mine does that at times and I know mine are shot! s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
Also there should be a lip under the front of the car which is supposed to help high speed stability check to see if yours is missing.
There is a thread or two about this.
With regards to "wandering", this might be tramlining. As in, it seems to want to follow the worn sections in the roads?
This is more often just a property of a tyre. The T1-Rs don't do it at all really, but the AD08s will almost steer you around a corner by itself.
It can reach extreme levels at times. The other day I was playing around with it by holding the wheel very very lightly and I managed to follow a slight bend in the road without touching the wheel.
It does seem that the stiffer the sidewall, the more prone to tramlining the car becomes at the tyres wear.
Quote from: "ChrisGB"It does seem that the stiffer the sidewall, the more prone to tramlining the car becomes at the tyres wear.
absolutely. that's the main cause of tramlining. Makes sense really. either than or very thin tyres s:) :) s:)
Do you have the correct stagger on your tyres first of all?
Quote from: "cptspaulding"Do you have the correct stagger on your tyres first of all?
It's already been established they're different branded tyres front and back, so I doubt looking at stagger would be a first port of call as no doubt the treads and grip will already be quite different.
Obviously when replacing, correct sizes and stagger would be recommended s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:
Agree, you need stiff sidewalks for good responsive handling. Also run-flats have extremely stiff sidewalks to support the car when the tyre is flat. I agree when any tyre is worn it will become soft, spongy and the car will snake and become unstable. Just like when they are underinflated
I don't think it's tyres that are stiffer to start off, all tyres will handle poorly and tramline and be unresponsive when heavily and old.
Would be interested to know the age of the tyre, what's the age of it?
From the sounds of it in have to go back to Scott's post #9. Have you checked for the wind deflectors in front of the front tyres on the bumper?
Hi Guys,
Thanks again for the input, every time I drive the car, I try to pay real attention to exactly what happens and when.
Yesterday I took a 24 mile run up the motorway at normal (ahh hmmm 60-14+9x3 % -4 and take away the number you first thought of) speed. What I did notice was that at 50 mph it ran pretty straight and true, 60 mph it was not too bad, 70 it was a bit worse and if I had accidentally exceeded the speed limit at any time it would probably have been all over the shop like a rabbit with a firework up it's bum, but of course I would not have noticed this as I would not have been doing 80 mph at any time.
Just got back from a drive though the country lanes of leafy Surrey and throwing it into bends if seems fine, very quick turn in, sometimes it almost seems to drop into the turn, on uneven roads through the trees it doesn't behave at all badly. It may be that I don't notice it when I'm on the back roads as constant steering input is needed on those roads anyway. Its only on fast straight open roads like motorways that it is so unpredictable, I am constantly having to check the steering with the lightest of touches or it will dive across the road to either left or right. Its like trying to balance on a knife edge. Its almost like there is play in the steering but it has only just passed it MOT so that's unlikely (I know an MOT means nothing) but I cant imagine it would have passed with that much play in the steering just one month ago. There does not appear to be any free play in the steering anyway so I don't think this is where my troubles lay.
Oh and although the tyres may be some sort of cheap budget mush, they are all pretty new with plenty of tread left all round, no worn edges and all pretty evenly good
Intriguing,
Sorting handling on ANY car but particularly light weight mid engined ones is a holistic process.
The cheap and easy potential fixes are:
Tracking
Alignment
Tyre Pressures.
Then you move on to maintenance issues that cost more to sort like
New and matched tyres all around
Replacing bushes throughout
Worn ball joints/toe end links
Replacement dampers
Worn top mounts
And finally full upgrades like
Polybushing things
More chassis bracing
Adjustable suspension - dampers, coilovers and top mounts.
IMO it's only worth chasing problems in pretty much that order. That's biggest bang for smallest buck/work. Or doing a full refurb which is what I've moved towards in more recent cars. I completely rebuilt the suspension on my MK1 MR2, put polybushes and adjustable links and koni adjustables. I ended up doing the same with my Impreza PPP and that transformed the car.
But good fresh tyres are a starting point. Without them you can't judge anything else. And I think that sidewall stiffness needs to be talked about relatively, because actually on light cars you want some sidewall compliance to give good roadholding and ride comfort as well as a predictable handling envelope. Run tyres with a high load rating, you'll compromise the feel of the car.
It's a balancing act. IT's a question of how much you want to spend. BUt so long as the suspension is relatively fresh (And that previous owner wants to be SHOT for replacing a single damper!!) then a proper alignment by someone who knows what they are doing and 4 new tyres should address most problems. If you've ever driven a car with mismatched dampers or a failed damper, you'll know the meaning of fear. I had to nurse a BMW328i with a failed shock back from Scotland to the South, and it was heart in mouth stuff at every bend. Really, truly lethal.
Wind deflectors, no haven't looked at that, could be interesting. I will do that in the morning, thanks
Worn ball joints, could be that, I'm a 61 yr old Driving Instructor, been around cars all my life and if this wasn't an MR2 I would be looking at shockers, ball joints/track rod ends, possibly top mounts, then onto steering box and rack. But tyres seem to play such a critical part in the handling of this car that before I get the spanners out, I want to see if thats the issue.
As heads up, I think another new member/owner (Poppyspit) has been raising the same issue. Some pics in her thread of the under lip thingy.
Tyres need changing whatever. Sports cars and poor tyres don't mix.
Check for the wind deflectors. If they're present then go for a full alignment.
Thanks Scotte, got on my knees under the front today and yea... all three wind deflectors are present and correct, so can eliminate that one. Will wait until the full four wheel alignment has been done on Saturday and then see what it is like.
Looking at the various threads on this problem, it does not appear uncommon to have high speed instability and its looking more and more like the cheapo tyres I have on at present. May invest in some decent boots after Saturday.
If the four wheel alignment fails to solve it you may want to invest in a Matt brace before ditching the tyres. I had a very similar issue with the Car being hypersensitive to road camber. I had the alignment - swapped tyres around etc. The moment the under brace was fitted the car was "on rails'.
Matts TTE style brace is a no brainer upgrade. Best £120 spent on a roadster.
Hi again, my car has a TTE body kit already, would this brace be fitted as part of that
Very unlikely. It was a very costly item from TTE. It forms an X under the car. There should be pictures if you do a search.
(http://www.azekiel.co.uk/mr2/images/mods/brace_comparison.jpg)
The large black X is the TTE.
The middle one is corkys i think not sure what the one to the far left is. Perhaps stock.
Hi Scotte, just been outside and got down and dirty with the underside, took a few pictures as best I could. Defo dont have one of these braces, do have the one on the left though. Looks like one side of the plastic (is that the nappy) has come adrift and is hanging down but it will just need popping back into place I think. Had a good look at the front shocks and cant see where seller said he had replace one. Does look like it has had both front springs replaced though. cross member looks in reasonable nick, no real rust to speak of, some surface peeling on the two rods that run outboard to each wheel (part of the suspension i think) but its only surface, metal underneath is sound. Im thinking tyres, tyres tyres
Do you still have the engine nappy on?
Mine was absolutely horrible over 60mph until I took it off (oil change and initial CBA to put it back on). Very light on the back wheels at speed, and always juddering up and down. Horrible.
The underside of the exposed engine bay seems to have a venturi effect. AFAIK UK is the only market to come with the awful thing fitted.
I only have one wind deflector at front (others lost by PO), and it it's not a happy bunny in a side wind, but it's otherwise ok at all reasonable UK speeds.
Quote from: "1979scotte"(http://www.azekiel.co.uk/mr2/images/mods/brace_comparison.jpg)
The large black X is the TTE.
The middle one is corkys i think not sure what the one to the far left is. Perhaps stock.
My picture s:) :) s:) left is indeed stock, so either of those are great upgrades.
My Brain hurts!!!!!!
Think I'm going to forget it until after I have had the 4x wheel alignment done. will get them to have a look under it at the same time. Been using this garage for a few years now and they have always been spot on with tracking/tyres so will set them a challenge with this one methinks.
look forward to the update.
A matching set of boot will no doubt follow regardless.
I can only comment that mine runs so much better on OEM tyres than it did on the mish mash I bought it with.
As some one said previously go for the best you can afford. It is money invested rather than spent.
Your rusty rods running from wheel to wheel i will asume are anti roll bars.
All get really rusty but as you say its only surface.
Yes thats what I think they are, as the car is so low to the road, I'm not getting under there to look properly LOL. Tomorrow is the big day, 4 wheel alignment, cant wait and almost certain I will be fitting a new set of boots shortly afterwards which I hope will sort it.
Quote from: "1979scotte"Matts TTE style brace is a no brainer upgrade. Best £120 spent on a roadster.
not sure if he has any left mate,i bought one last week and he said it was the last one ?
ALL HAIL TO THE GOD OF WHEELIE ALIGNMENT!!!!!!
WOW, what a difference, had a four wheel alignment done yesterday, all four wheels were well out so it was a bit like driving a bandy legged donkey along the road but now it runs dead straight even at hrr hmmm speeds. I can still feel that it would benefit from some good quality rubber all round but to be honest, its such an improvement already and these budget balloons are almost brand new. Even though they are some cheapo rubbish, they do grip well (at least in the dry) I will run it on these until they are a bit more worn then put something decent on just to get that bit more stability. But hey ho, problem solved and with the cheapest of fixes rather than needing to spend much hard cash.
thanks everyone for all your advice, I have learnt a lot already and no doubt will be asking loads more questions as time goes by.
Glad it's so much better! Alignment is critical on any car, but particularly flighty ones! Plus you've probably saved a heap of premature wear on your ditchfinders.
Awesome stuff.
Does anyone know if Mr T Geo settings changed between PFL and FL cars. He changed rears from 15 to 16. Did he alter the geo settings?