MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => Performance Related => Topic started by: stupink on November 25, 2015, 14:47

Title: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on November 25, 2015, 14:47
Racelogic have stopped making their TC.. so my plan is out the window!

This leaves me with a car I'm completely happy with, other than no TC, in a situation I may have to completely re-ECU/loom/map it when I don't really want to, just to get a ecu with TC....

I'm also pondering that the emanage ultimate has launch control, and if I could get a box to trigger on wheelspeed difference, and send a 0mph+full throttle signal to my emanage it would cut quite nicely... but how fast it would react I don't know... and i'm not good enough to make said box myself... anyone feel they could do that?
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: 4dvti on November 26, 2015, 04:08
Hi

Try contacting Chris, owner of Whiteford-Davies Motorsport. He is an electrical genius.

I hope he's still trading. 07906 494622.


I wasn't aware of the Racelogic system being discontinued. I see that conten-miller are still selling it, unless they haven't updated their website yet.

 m http://www.corten-miller.co.uk/Products/RaceLogic/ (http://www.corten-miller.co.uk/Products/RaceLogic/) m
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: 1979scotte on November 26, 2015, 06:58
Website says discontinued so anything available must be old stock.
Wonder why?
All the stand alone ecu have it built in I suppose?
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on November 26, 2015, 21:33
I'm gonna swap out the ECU now I think....  just bite the bullet and do it, won't cost me any more..

I spoke to racelogic and essentially yeah, their system was not being so profitable so got axed as they're making good money elsewhere, its not compatible with uber modern cars, and older cars already have it or are going to ECU's,  its such a shame, but they simply couldn't get it produced at a financially worthwhile price to make selling a few worthwhile "at this time"...  makes complete sense really...   ECU it is.. i'll start another post now about that.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: mrzwei on November 26, 2015, 23:11
I'm not really into this stuff but the post facelift SMT had traction control. I assume that is managed by the SMT ecu.

If that's of no use then 'post on'   s:D :D s:D
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: ChrisGB on November 26, 2015, 23:16
ECU is probably the best way to go. The Racelogic system may have thrown misfire codes on the stock ECU anyway.

Or buy some light weight shoes  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: 4dvti on November 26, 2015, 23:35
I was recently recommended Syvecs by my tuner for the mr2. When I asked another user about the price it was in the region of £3000 supplied, fitted and mapped   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I'd say just go for the ECU in your case.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on November 26, 2015, 23:54
Looking at nabbing a mates autronic SM4, an older unit, but its not like its a modern car.

Any good articles or threads to read on fitting alternative ecu's to the 1zz?  I recall reading you need the oem ECU for some funcitons still or something.... reading needed,, I will attack google this weekend  s:) :) s:)
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: ChrisGB on November 26, 2015, 23:57
Ive got the Link G4 Extreme running the 2GR-FE. The standard ECU is running the dashboard, rev counter and temperature as far as I know.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: Anonymous on November 27, 2015, 07:37
Emerald were looking at doing traction control. Might be worth checking that out as the ecu can be had for £700 new
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: 4dvti on November 27, 2015, 18:25
Shame you guys can't use Hondata. They do a great traction control system now. I've got a set on order for the K'd mr2.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on November 27, 2015, 19:16
Quick one.... Anyone actually have traction control setup on theirs??  if so what ECU do you run  s:) :) s:)
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: tomaky on November 27, 2015, 19:24
As above the link storm has TC
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: ChrisGB on November 27, 2015, 21:40
The G4 extreme does tc, but I don't have it programmed. The viscous differential is quite manageable when the rears are overspeeding.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on November 27, 2015, 22:44
Your definition of quite manageable may change if you were to have a play in mine, she likes to wheel spin in second gear even in a straight line when a bit damp, but only when you get up near the limiter, so you're doing 60mph by that point and "catching" a rear slide is somewhat demanding mentally and physically. means you have to go quite tame when considering anything not 100% straight.. and I'm sure the weather wont always allow me to do dry trackdays either.

I was kinda hoping to get some feedback on how good the TC is on different ECU, but I guess so few are getting any slip issues on a Good tyre like the AD08r out of first gear :-
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: tomaky on November 27, 2015, 23:22
Cant help with the experience with the link as unfortunately ive not driven it yet but the link g4 storm comes with TC and many other features.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: tomaky on November 27, 2015, 23:22
Cant help with the experience with the link as unfortunately ive not driven it yet but the link g4 storm comes with TC and many other features.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: ChrisGB on November 27, 2015, 23:50
Quote from: "stupink"Your definition of quite manageable may change if you were to have a play in mine, she likes to wheel spin in second gear even in a straight line when a bit damp, but only when you get up near the limiter, so you're doing 60mph by that point and "catching" a rear slide is somewhat demanding mentally and physically. means you have to go quite tame when considering anything not 100% straight.. and I'm sure the weather wont always allow me to do dry trackdays either.

I was kinda hoping to get some feedback on how good the TC is on different ECU, but I guess so few are getting any slip issues on a Good tyre like the AD08r out of first gear :-

The Emerald unit is not expensive and you can torque limit different amounts in each gear, which may help. The viscous differential tends to be quite progressive and doesn't shove the car off line much, Having said that, it will get lairy if you don't get on top of it immediately.

The 2GR will spin the rears R888s up in 2nd in the dry with ease. With a few heat cycles on them, wheelspin in 3rd in the dry will happen occasionally. If it's damp, spinning up in 4th is simple enough, even at 100mph. The big rotating mass of the V6 also means breaking traction on up changes can happen. On the plus side, the throttle mapping is very accurate and response immediate, so it is manageable. It does feel like a knife edge experience much of the time, but that's where the entertainment comes from. Finesse is the key. I'm sure I could go faster with a good TC system, but the challenge is more fun.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on November 28, 2015, 12:31
Quite a few different options..  confused all over again  s:) :) s:)      
I think the weirdest thing about mine, is normally its peak torque that spins up, so you get it quite low down, and expect it there, but mine doesn't seem to have enough torque to spin up other than in first and even then only in the wet, its only when we hit peak bhp that the tyres let go..

I think any TC would probably do the trick, so I guess its just a case of finding the most favourable overall ECU,  the autronic my friend is selling is good, very good, but old.. so I'm not sure if a lesser but newer would be "better".. technology is moving at strange rates.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: Mark A on November 28, 2015, 15:40
Syvecs is a quality ECU, i'm sure you could pick one up for a grand on one of the other forums.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: ChrisGB on November 28, 2015, 16:17
Quote from: "stupink"Quite a few different options..  confused all over again  s:) :) s:)      
I think the weirdest thing about mine, is normally its peak torque that spins up, so you get it quite low down, and expect it there, but mine doesn't seem to have enough torque to spin up other than in first and even then only in the wet, its only when we hit peak bhp that the tyres let go...

Interesting, a bit of boost creep upping the torque at the top end perhaps?
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: 4dvti on November 28, 2015, 18:01
Quote from: "Mark A"Syvecs is a quality ECU, i'm sure you could pick one up for a grand on one of the other forums.

Perhaps for an older model - I'm not too clued up on the various options- But I was told ~£3000 for Syvecs supplied, fitted and mapped for me.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: ChrisGB on November 28, 2015, 21:17
Definitely speak to Emerald, just reading through the ECU software configuration manual, there are setup screens for wheel speed sensors for launch and traction control.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: Anonymous on November 28, 2015, 21:40
If you do go emerald and want a base map give me a shout and ill send you mine.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on November 29, 2015, 11:24
Cheers,  
I'm back to thinking I want racelogic(while I appreciate DET control is not utilised at higher RPM, I still feel its something i'm not ready to loose just yet, and no aftermarket seems to have a good system yet unless spending £££££££).... going to keep my peepers open for a second hand sale. and just hope to not crash in the meanwhile...  I can spend the time finally getting my brakes conversion finished, as I've done 80% of the work now, but not a single bit is actually on the car :p
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on December 19, 2015, 17:08
Got one !!!! Racelogic is minnnneeee  s:) :) s:)
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: 1979scotte on December 19, 2015, 19:36
Well done.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: ChrisGB on December 19, 2015, 21:23
Quote from: "stupink"Got one !!!! Racelogic is minnnneeee  s:) :) s:)

It will pay for itself in tyre preservation  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on December 20, 2015, 16:52
Haha.. yeah, the way I figure it, it only has to avoid one crash, even a small one and its paid for itself  s:) :) s:)     plus I hope to enjoy the car so much more with it tamed down a bit,..  thinking more on the problem I know why she is such a handful, its because the BHP rises linear until the rev limit, normally when you get wheelspin you have pretty much hit peak power and so as it spins you get LESS power available, kinda like a built in traction control, on mine as it slips the revs raise and you have MORE power, so a little slip suddenly turns into some kind of spinfest up to the limiter so you HAVE to back off, and we all know what happens when you back off in a 2 when the rear steps out....... FUN TIME...   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: tomaky on December 20, 2015, 17:45
Let me know how the difference feels my link which i havent driven yet has the TC so would good to know the difference.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: weeJohn on December 26, 2015, 16:43
Quote from: "stupink"Haha.. yeah, the way I figure it, it only has to avoid one crash, even a small one and its paid for itself  s:) :) s:)     plus I hope to enjoy the car so much more with it tamed down a bit,..  thinking more on the problem I know why she is such a handful, its because the BHP rises linear until the rev limit, normally when you get wheelspin you have pretty much hit peak power and so as it spins you get LESS power available, kinda like a built in traction control, on mine as it slips the revs raise and you have MORE power, so a little slip suddenly turns into some kind of spinfest up to the limiter so you HAVE to back off, and we all know what happens when you back off in a 2 when the rear steps out....... FUN TIME...   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

How does the traction control work, does it cut spark or fuel to the engine when the ABS sensors signals differ enough to show slip on 1 wheel when the steering wheel is straight?

If so, its still going to reduce the power to the engine, so its pretty much the same as lifting off the throttle.

Unless you get a system that operates the brakes on the slipping wheel, this is how its going to be.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on December 26, 2015, 17:10
This TC cuts fuel when it detects driven wheels overspeeding. It cuts one injector pulse at a time so it can back off the smallest amount possible or complete cut and anything in between. It does it incredibly fast so while it reduces power it does it in a way you could never do with the throttle. Nothing to do with steering angle, it will take that into account by comparing left and  rights side to calculate the cars cornering. You can set slip % to be different cornering to straight line, wet v's dry settings etc. in reality having tested it this morning its ridiculous.. can just go full throttle mid corner or on exit of a corner and the car just rockets off faster than I could balance the throttle with a years practice 24/7.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: weeJohn on December 26, 2015, 18:20
Quote from: "stupink"This TC cuts fuel when it detects driven wheels overspeeding. It cuts one injector pulse at a time so it can back off the smallest amount possible or complete cut and anything in between. It does it incredibly fast so while it reduces power it does it in a way you could never do with the throttle. Nothing to do with steering angle, it will take that into account by comparing left and  rights side to calculate the cars cornering. You can set slip % to be different cornering to straight line, wet v's dry settings etc. in reality having tested it this morning its ridiculous.. can just go full throttle mid corner or on exit of a corner and the car just rockets off faster than I could balance the throttle with a years practice 24/7.


Sounds impressive, much better than most aftermarket systems I have seen in the past.
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: stupink on December 26, 2015, 19:07
Quote from: "weeJohn"Sounds impressive, much better than most aftermarket systems I have seen in the past.
yeah, its way ahead of most others, which is ironic seeing as its about 20years old by design.. it was used in the very early gumperts and koenigseggs etc when the ecu's could not do T/C
Title: Re: traction control... ponderies,
Post by: dj2k21 on December 28, 2015, 01:36
I run TC on my link G4. excellent system indeed, the stock ecu controls the dash still and I believe the electronic power steering too. Link does the rest. you can variable settings according to boost levels, gear by gear, even switchable maps ie high and low boost you can alter it to suit. very impressive system indeed. the latest links are even better still and were made to be compatible with the GTR the software is impeccable I mean lest we forget, these guys make the ECU for the harrier jump jet.