Want to introduce a bit of forced induction into your car? Look no further! For the MR2ROC club is here to create a list of all the basic components you need and where fabrication is required, sources and costs indicated :-) :-) :-) First priority would be UK sites, but understandably a lot of stuff is in the US...
What you need:
KNOWLEDGE
The following books are a good read on this topic:
How to Turbocharge and Tune Your Engine Authored by J. R. Crosby
The following site seems to have a lot of good info on the topic within the forced induction section:
m http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20 ... uning.html (http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning.html) m
The below thread contains some useful advice specific to turboing the MR2.
m http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60040 (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60040) m
Items below have been given a priority (Needs, & might need to buy)
What you must buy at a minimum:
Turbo
m http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=garr ... -gt28r-t25 (http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=garrett-gt2560r-aka-gt28r-t25) m
Manifold header
MWR version for $295
m https://monkeywrenchracing.com/product/ ... fe-engine/ (https://monkeywrenchracing.com/product/tkc-turbo-manifold-only-toyota-1zz-fe-2zr-fe-engine/) m
m http://www.turbomotor.dk/contents/da/d28.html (http://www.turbomotor.dk/contents/da/d28.html) m
123 for a cast 1zz t25 turbo Manifold
m http://tuning-parts.bg/manifold/1324/ (http://tuning-parts.bg/manifold/1324/) m
94 euro for a cast t3 manifold
Building your own in basic steps:
m http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20 ... %20to.html (http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Turbo%20manifold%20How%20to.html) m
Engine mgmt
Piggy Backs
- eManage Blue
£346 for the EMS alone
m http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/greddy- ... e-ecu.html (http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/greddy-emanage-blue-ecu.html) m
Please note that these can be purchased second hand with relative ease - however care must be taken to ensure you obtain the correct wiring. Prices in the region of £250.
- eManage Ultimate
- Dastek UnichipQ
Standalone More expensive but more power possibilities?
- Apexi
- AEM
Funky Power £695
m http://www.funkypower.co.uk/catalogue.p ... STEMS&man= (http://www.funkypower.co.uk/catalogue.php?make=TOYOTA%20-%20LEXUS&model=MR-S%20-%20MR2&year=99%2B+1.8VVTI+ROADSTER&level1=ELECTRONICS&level2=ENGINE+MANAGEMENT&level3=STAND+ALONE+SYSTEMS&man=) m
MAP sensor for ECU
Also - you will need to have the ECU/Piggyback system mapped on a rolling road. The costs vary for this service but are in the region of £400 and hour?
The following locations offer mapping:
- Redline (Essex)
Monitoring
EGT
Boost gauge
Oil temp
AFR
oil pressure
Downpipe
Wastegate
blow-off valve
Oil lines
Oil return bung into sump
Sandwich plate for oil feed or pressure switch extension adapter for oil feed
Hose clamps
You can never have enough hose clamps... and even when you have plenty they wont be the right size!
Turbo manifolds
Water lines
T-Piece for water feed (if water cooled turbo)
Intercooler pipes
Intercooler
Exhaust
Charge cooler + radiator
Boost gauge/sensor
Injectors
Colder spark plugs
Air intake
Might have to buy:
Fuel pressure regulator
Turbo timer
Oil cooler
Thermostatically controlled oil cooller can be picked up from the usual subjects for under £100
Oil catch can
Upgraded radiator fans
Larger radiator
Boost solenoid Boost controller?
Wideband sensor
Wideband monitor
As you increase in power and torque past X/250 lb/ft you will need to invest in:
Uprated clutch (depending on target power).
Uprated gearbox
Built internals.
Forged rods and low compression pistons. - going nuts now and aiming at 350hp+
alloy fuel rails with returns. Better flowing intake manifolds and throttle bodies. etc.
Depending on how thorough of a job you want to do this list could be extended.
Charge cooler + radiator
Fuel pressure regulator
Wideband sensor
Boost gauge/sensor
Injectors
Colder spark plugs
Air intake
Quote from: "shnazzle"Depending on how thorough of a job you want to do this list could be extended.
Charge cooler + radiator
Fuel pressure regulator
Wideband sensor
Boost gauge/sensor
Injectors
Colder spark plugs
Air intake
ah awesome! would be good to indicate which things are necessary and which things are a nice to have - if that's even possible!
Will add these to the list!
If buying a new ECU, do you not need to have the ECU mapped, therefore do you not need dyno time?
Quote from: "MR Roadie 2"If buying a new ECU, do you not need to have the ECU mapped, therefore do you not need dyno time?
Eh? Explain please
Quote from: "MR Roadie 2"If buying a new ECU, do you not need to have the ECU mapped, therefore do you not need dyno time?
Ah! Good point! Yes I'll add that in...
Quote from: "shnazzle"Quote from: "MR Roadie 2"If buying a new ECU, do you not need to have the ECU mapped, therefore do you not need dyno time?
Eh? Explain please
Once the ECU is fitted do they not need set up and mapped? or is this only stand alone ECU's?
Quote from: "jvanzyl"Quote from: "MR Roadie 2"If buying a new ECU, do you not need to have the ECU mapped, therefore do you not need dyno time?
Ah! Good point! Yes I'll add that in...
Hold on s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "MR Roadie 2"Quote from: "shnazzle"Quote from: "MR Roadie 2"If buying a new ECU, do you not need to have the ECU mapped, therefore do you not need dyno time?
Eh? Explain please
Once the ECU is fitted do they not need set up and mapped? or is this only stand alone ECU's?
This is a DIY install. Meaning that if you bought the ECU, it won't have a map on it. And even if you got it second hand from someone with a similar setup, it would likely still need mapping.
You can run very low boost without a map. But to finish the install you'd have to calibrate and tune the ECU. Whether it's piggyback or standalone.
Quote from: "shnazzle"This is a DIY install. Meaning that if you bought the ECU, it won't have a map on it. And even if you got it second hand from someone with a similar setup, it would likely still need mapping.
You can run very low boost without a map. But to finish the install you'd have to calibrate and tune the ECU. Whether it's piggyback or standalone.
How do you calibrate and tune a ECU?
Oil return bung into sump
T-Piece for water feed (if water cooled turbo)
Sandwich plate for oil feed or pressure switch extension adapter for oil feed
Dastek UnichipQ is another ECU. Redline in Essex specialises in these and is what Matt put in the SP240 kits (with additional components).
MAP sensor for ECU...gotta read boost into ECU somehow.
By wastegate do you mean the "dump valve" or blow-off valve? The wastegate usually sits on the turbo and controls how much boost the turbo makes and the blow-off valve relieves pressure from the turbo when you lift off throttle in order to keep the blades spinning and prevent massive back-pressure.
So, add blow-off valve to the list. This can be either recirculating into intake or vent to atmosphere (which we all prefer because it sounds so damn cool s:) :) s:) )
Boost solenoid - Linked to ECU or electronic boost controller to control how much boost the turbo and wastegate see. So if your wastegate is set to 6psi, but you want to run 10psi, you use a boost controller and solenoid to pass less pressure to the wastegate, so that the turbo goes on to produce the extra 4psi. Alternatively, just use a manual boost controller
Uprated clutch (depending on target power).
Uprated gearbox (if over targetting over 250-260lb/ft torque).
Built internals. Forged rods and low compression pistons. - going nuts now and aiming at 350hp+ s:) :) s:) Looking at alloy fuel rails with returns. Better flowing intake manifolds and throttle bodies. etc.
OK I think you're both saying almost the same thing - with the point of differentiation being that Patrick is saying that you can get away with NOT mapping the ECU whilst running at low boost?
Quote from: "shnazzle"By wastegate do you mean the "dump valve" or blow-off valve? The wastegate usually sits on the turbo and controls how much boost the turbo makes and the blow-off valve relieves pressure from the turbo when you lift off throttle in order to keep the blades spinning and prevent massive back-pressure.
You assume I actually know what any of that is! Dude, I'm literally copying and pasting a "list" I don't understand it other than the sum total when installed make the car go faster!
Quote from: "jvanzyl"OK I think you're both saying almost the same thing - with the point of differentiation being that Patrick is saying that you can get away with NOT mapping the ECU whilst running at low boost?
I meant more to limp to the nearest trusted tuner to map your ECU s:) :) s:) hehe. Basically running the stock car but with a turbo in between and not allowing it to build much boost at all so that your stock ECU can still fuel sufficiently without it under-fueling and causing detonation all over the place.
I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something but if you're going to put a turbo on the car, you're going to have to change the way it fuels/times/etc to get the best out of it. There were kits that used the stock ECU but frankly I find that dodgy at best. Aside from the fact that you'd have to disconnect the knock sensor, which is scary.
Quote from: "jvanzyl"You assume I actually know what any of that is! Dude, I'm literally copying and pasting a "list" I don't understand it other than the sum total when installed make the car go faster!
haha!! sorry. Ok, maybe best to start at the beginning then
I had a recent thread with 2 manifold options within the EU currently the states is way too much money unless its the only option.
You can map the car yourself. Plenty of people do it and their cars dont explode. However for me personally a dyno session is a must.
Quote from: "1979scotte"I had a recent thread with 2 manifold options within the EU currently the states is way too much money unless its the only option.
You can map the car yourself. Plenty of people do it and their cars dont explode. However for me personally a dyno session is a must.
Well if you're able to provide the links to the manifolds that'd help!
Funky power do a AEM standalone ECU.
m http://www.funkypower.co.uk/catalogue.p ... STEMS&man= (http://www.funkypower.co.uk/catalogue.php?make=TOYOTA%20-%20LEXUS&model=MR-S%20-%20MR2&year=99%2B+1.8VVTI+ROADSTER&level1=ELECTRONICS&level2=ENGINE+MANAGEMENT&level3=STAND+ALONE+SYSTEMS&man=) m
Cheers - I've added that!
Oil cooler
With the added temperatures of the turbo. I would seriously consider an oil cooler
Thermostatically controlled oil cooller can be picked up from the usual subjects for under £100
Hose clamps
You can never have enough hose clamps... and even when you have plenty they wont be the right size!
Turbo manifolds
Several available on ebay along with some 1ZZ Kits tho these would need some fettling to fit as they are normally for the Celica
Quote from: "1979scotte"As most people know i am running an Sp240 turbo kit.
Even though its a stonking kit i am always at ways to make my 2 faster.
On my many google searches i come up with a few things that seem good value but i wonder if i am missing anything.
m http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=garr ... -gt28r-t25 (http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=garrett-gt2560r-aka-gt28r-t25) m
626 for a gt2560 looks good value or have i just been looking in the wrong places?
m http://www.turbomotor.dk/contents/da/d28.html (http://www.turbomotor.dk/contents/da/d28.html) m
123 for a cast 1zz t25 turbo manifold
Or
m http://tuning-parts.bg/manifold/1324/ (http://tuning-parts.bg/manifold/1324/) m
94 euro for a cast t3 manifold
m http://www.ecumaster.co.uk/ (http://www.ecumaster.co.uk/) m
Anyone have any first or even seconhand knowledge of the above.
They do a stand alone ecu with some great features for a cracking price.
Finding somone trustworthy to map it could be an issue from what i have read it is made in poland and the software is written by an ex lotus guy.
Any thoughts.
Is that what you were looking for?
Quote from: "Essex2Visuvesi"Oil cooler
With the added temperatures of the turbo. I would seriously consider an oil cooler
I will have one as i am planning on upgrades but there is no need really imho. Up to 240 bhp i reckon you only need the bear minimum of kit.
This thread is the one John
l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60040 (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60040) l
Quote from: "Essex2Visuvesi"Oil cooler
With the added temperatures of the turbo. I would seriously consider an oil cooler
Thermostatically controlled oil cooller can be picked up from the usual subjects for under £100
Hose clamps
You can never have enough hose clamps... and even when you have plenty they wont be the right size!
Turbo manifolds
Several available on ebay along with some 1ZZ Kits though these would need some fettling to fit as they are normally for the Celica
Quote from: "1979scotte"As most people know i am running an Sp240 turbo kit.
Even though its a stonking kit i am always at ways to make my 2 faster.
On my many google searches i come up with a few things that seem good value but i wonder if i am missing anything.
m http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=garr ... -gt28r-t25 (http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=garrett-gt2560r-aka-gt28r-t25) m
626 for a gt2560 looks good value or have i just been looking in the wrong places?
m http://www.turbomotor.dk/contents/da/d28.html (http://www.turbomotor.dk/contents/da/d28.html) m
123 for a cast 1zz t25 turbo manifold
Or
m http://tuning-parts.bg/manifold/1324/ (http://tuning-parts.bg/manifold/1324/) m
94 euro for a cast t3 manifold
m http://www.ecumaster.co.uk/ (http://www.ecumaster.co.uk/) m
Anyone have any first or even seconhand knowledge of the above.
They do a stand alone ecu with some great features for a cracking price.
Finding somone trustworthy to map it could be an issue from what i have read it is made in poland and the software is written by an ex lotus guy.
Any thoughts.
Is that what you were looking for?
This is exactly what I was looking for! Will add it into the list as soon as I can put the kids down and get some time! Brilliant, thank you!
Can we please keep this to a list of required, optional and possible parts and stay away from advice and do's and don'ts?
There are far too many parameters to summarise in one thread and as 90% of turbo installs are different from others on here it's best looking at each separately.
Quote from: "shnazzle"Can we please keep this to a list of required, optional and possible parts and stay away from advice and do's and don'ts?
There are far too many parameters to summarise in one thread and as 90% of turbo installs are different from others on here it's best looking at each separately.
Totally- I will need help telling which falls into each category though!
When I can find my Notebook (a real paper one) I'll post up my scribblings.... I basically did this when I was looking into Turboing/engine swapping mine. Lots of links and prices etc
Quote from: "jvanzyl"Quote from: "shnazzle"Can we please keep this to a list of required, optional and possible parts and stay away from advice and do's and don'ts?
There are far too many parameters to summarise in one thread and as 90% of turbo installs are different from others on here it's best looking at each separately.
Totally- I will need help telling which falls into each category though!
Not a problem s:) :) s:) And thanks for compiling a nice list!
Remember MR2ROC is an "enthusiast" club, not an "expert" club. Although a few on here could definitely be classed as such and have the credentials to back it up.
I wouldn't take a word I say for truth, for example. I'm only just an enthusiast who happens to read a lot and have a turbo mr2 in the house
I'm going alittle more basic for mine
Tubular manifold with T28 turbo from 200sx. 6-7 psi. Use the 200sx elbow which has a lambda bung in it. Then have a join up piece to go to the exhaust I have already fitted.
No water feeds but oil feeds so lines, oil return pipe and feed required and Sandwich plate. Oil temp and pressure gauge from here as well.
No intercooler but water injection boost actuated, maybe 50% methanol maybe not.
Blow off Valve obviously
BLITZ R-FIT fuel computer, Corky maf mod and 2zz injectors.
Colder plugs
Looking at the available kits they run lower boost with no management. The only thing I'm not sure of is what the ecu will do when it sees boost but as I said I think it's the PE kit that doesn't run any management at all.
Wide band as well would be fitted for fettling. I'd be relying on the stock knock sensor to pull timing as required but running water injection with methanol is great at reducing knock
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I am enjoying this thread, has I am looking into a Turbo for my car for next year. Although I have to laugh, as 95% of the input is from people who have not turbo'd their cars, although valid points and good input from all. Would be great to hear from some of our previous DIY turbo'd owners.
I got a (guesstimated) quote from a Dyno tuner today for 6K to turbo my car. I did not know whether to P myself with laughter or Sh!t myself.
Six thousand pounds???
Did that include dyno time and mapping?
Any promises on power? What ecu?
In my mind 3-4k would do the job nicely.
I will find out when i sell my SP240 and give it a try.
Quote from: "1979scotte"Six thousand pounds???
Did that include dyno time and mapping?
Any promises on power? What ecu?
In my mind 3-4k would do the job nicely.
I will find out when i sell my SP240 and give it a try.
I know! For 6k I thought there might be a clutch up grade, new gear box, extra bracing, big brake kit and new wheels.
He spoke about the DTA fast ECU. He thought the ECU and mapping time would cost about 2k, plus £600 for a manifold to be manufactured, garret 28r £650,intercooler charger, oil cooler and install of everything, would come to 6k.
I'm with you 1979Scotte, I think 3k to 4k should work great. After all I chasing about 230bhp not 300bhp.
Manifold can be had much cheaper. See my posts above.
Not heard of that ecu but for that sort of power a piggy back is just the ticket.
Good price for the actual turbo but tbh again if you only want around 200-250 a GT2560R will spool quicker and make the required power.
Mapping perfectly is pretty hard but if you can find a decent place to do it (private road) and have a wide band you can do it yourself. Have done it before with a piggy back fuel computer and made strong power on my 200sx
There are some great books on mapping cars.
As I said though the experts are the best to do it! Albeit if they blow it up its always your fault!!
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Quote from: "MR Roadie 2"Would be great to hear from some of our previous DIY turbo'd owners.
I'd encourage folk to put metering considerations nice and high up their priorities on a self-build. It needs to be a part of your plan and your budget rather than a pretty afterthought.
EGT is a really useful complement to wideband and boost, particularly when a piggyback is being used to fool the stock ECU. Worth adding to the OP's think-list.
Quote from: "spit"Quote from: "MR Roadie 2"Would be great to hear from some of our previous DIY turbo'd owners.
I'd encourage folk to put metering considerations nice and high up their priorities on a self-build. It needs to be a part of your plan and your budget rather than a pretty afterthought.
EGT is a really useful complement to wideband and boost, particularly when a piggyback is being used to fool the stock ECU. Worth adding to the OP's think-list.
You beat me to it! I was just about to post this one up
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/72755953.jpg)
I have boost, afr, oil temp and oil pressure now i need egt too. Not sure where that will fit. s:( :( s:(
Have we mentioned custom exhaust yet? The stock mr2 and tte dont flow the best.
Thanks for the input!
Please do provide names/ brands to go for or avoid with stuff...
Would be great if a user could look through the list and be able to start sourcing wisely!
For information sake a fuel return setup is a good idea once around 300 hp or more. MWR offers a setup for this. SARD makes a nice piece for the fuel pump hanger.
01' MR2 K20 swap, crazy mods to come
The emanage ultimate does a target afr map to act as a baseman which seemed a good option to help get on the road to a actual mapper or for you to tweak from. The AEM fuel and ignition controller seems good value too at circa £350
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As for all the gauges something like the Defi ZD would be good as you have them all on a LED screen
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Ebook called "Turbocharging N/A Motors on a Budget"
m https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hC7 ... &q&f=false (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hC7sAwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=fi#v=onepage&q&f=false) m
Has a case study of the MR-S and makes for interesting reading
You do need to pay for it to get the full book, but there is enough there in preview to get you started
Thanks guys I'll update the 1st page post on the morning :-) :-) :-) and I'm of to buy an ebook!
It's in flipping Finnish isn't it???!
It says no e book available?
My mistake. It's a proper book. But still worth a read
I ordered a copy from Amazon and should be here today.
I prefer tangible books anyway
Quote from: "Essex2Visuvesi"My mistake. It's a proper book. But still worth a read
I ordered a copy from Amazon and should be here today.
I prefer tangible books anyway
Have to say this book is well worth the 8 quid and highly recommend anyone thinking of Turbocharging their 2 buy it
before making any other purchases.
m https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/130 ... UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1300179945/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) m
Ok I've ordered it :-) :-) :-)
Has anyone here tried ordering the manifolds from either the danish company or the bulgarian one?
If so what was the verdict and how much was shipping etc? Looking into it but havent had a reply from the danish company yet
Quote from: "Jims"Has anyone here tried ordering the manifolds from either the danish company or the bulgarian one?
If so what was the verdict and how much was shipping etc? Looking into it but havent had a reply from the danish company yet
Had a chat with the Danish chap about shipping too the UK. Happy to ship and it was about 30 quid. No duty to pay as they are in the EU
His English is not great so try to keep and communications brief, simple and to the point
Quote from: "Essex2Visuvesi"Quote from: "Jims"Has anyone here tried ordering the manifolds from either the danish company or the bulgarian one?
If so what was the verdict and how much was shipping etc? Looking into it but havent had a reply from the danish company yet
Had a chat with the Danish chap about shipping too the UK. Happy to ship and it was about 30 quid. No duty to pay as they are in the EU
His English is not great so try to keep and communications brief, simple and to the point
Just what I wanted to hear s:D :D s:D How did you get hold of him if you don't mind me asking? Tried emailing (in english and an attempt at a danish translation...that probably wasn't too good) but not got any reply yet
I emailed last summer I or there abouts
There's a Manifold for sale in our for sale section. You'll need a post count of at least 10 before you can view it tho
Quote from: "Essex2Visuvesi"I emailed last summer I or there abouts
There's a Manifold for sale in our for sale section. You'll need a post count of at least 10 before you can view it though
Fair play, will give it a while either way, it wasn't too long ago I emailed. Luckily I'm not in any rush as I haven't sourced anything else yet but would like to get started (other than an emanage I found in the spare bed room s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ).
<snip>
Took a bit out, wasn't really on topic for sourcing parts I guess
</snip>
If you don't mind me adding to this. And if you don't mind my awful handwriting, here's every item I used. Only thing I've not put on is engine management and dyno time as I'm using a GB on the ecumaster standalone and getting IAT and wide band from them. That's a total of £1200 on top of the following:
Must have cost £2654.81
Comfort extras £299.98
Total £2954.79
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180406/ee923605524d4b443b228d3f6df483e7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180406/8154f8f20a97bdb4623b2593d4fb23b2.jpg)
Dan that is epic. Good man
Thanks :)
I do want to point out that you could do it cheaper.
Second hand parts, doing it over a long time and getting bargains.
Buying cheaper parts.
But I'm impatient and I ended up going a little more ballsy than intended.
Quote from: dan944 on April 6, 2018, 19:24
Thanks :)
I do want to point out that you could do it cheaper.
Second hand parts, doing it over a long time and getting bargains.
Buying cheaper parts.
But I'm impatient and I ended up going a little more ballsy than intended.
Your doing it right the first time.
Probably going to make as much power as mine does with less weight.
I am looking forward to it almost as much as you are.
My biggest advice to anyone on this is preparation. The sevens "P"s apply to this quite a lot I think. Especially if you want to minimise the amount of time the car is off the road. If I did this again I would comfortably book in for exhaust and mapping within days of starting the build phase. And once again that's purely to info and knowledge ive squeezed out of club members.
Thank you all.
I just hope it doesn't blow up on the Dyno.
But Scott you get the v6 "warble", and that is priceless. (Not to mention more torque than a tractor!)
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