I'm very much in the market to buy a lightened flywheel, so naturally I'm looking around at what's available.
I hear really good things about the Fidanza FW, but it's working out quite expensive compared to alternatives on the market. Weighing up against the Competition Clutch Ultra Lightweight FW, the latter is only a packet of biscuits heavier
(http://img.tesco.com/Groceries/pi/019/5000168002019/IDShot_540x540.jpg)
Is there anything else that makes it so much more expensive?
I have the CC one. Very happy so far
Seems to be very popular - probably worth just going for a punt on that.
When you're talking about the weight of a pack of biscuits for (around) £150 less, it doesn't seem worth it. Was looking for a TRD because I think they're ever so slightly lighter than the CC at 4.4kg ....but happy to be corrected.....I've the opportunity of buying a second hand one for £125 but I'm not fully comfortable with buying a second hand flywheel
l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20390&p=274931 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20390&p=274931) l
FYI
Seems to be almost a kg difference between fidanza and TRD. Get what you pay for I guess.
3.6kg is well light!
I've got a CC flywheel on mine and lurv the revvy nature of it on the 2zz.
I'm also fitting an Apexi PFC and getting it custom mapped on Wednesday, so will try and post up an in-car video under acceleration to let you see what the complete package of CC flywheel, se7en stg2 cams and custom Apexi map sounds/drives like . s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:
Will update the Trackhound Project thread soon as its done and tested.
I've got the fidanza and no problems you have to adjust your clutch release style as it stalls easy without enough revs but really picks up initially when you get it right
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Anyone thinking about ligher flywheels but on a budget should have a read of this: m http://www.w8ji.com/rotating_mass_acceleration.htm (http://www.w8ji.com/rotating_mass_acceleration.htm) m
It may make the engine feel more responsive blipping it at the traffic light, but it won't noticeably improve your performance.
The lightened flywheel isn't going to improve BHP it's about improving initial take up relevant extract from the article :-
" There are two general ways the flywheel affects acceleration, although this can vary. In a light car with very fast 60-foot times, a lighter wheel can slightly improve 60-foot times. This is because the launch is often at full throttle, the car generally has a steep gear, and we want to plant the tires hard into the track without encouraging spin. The tires hook hard, and usually have a very soft sidewall that absorbs shock. We want the engine to quickly match the RPM needed to move the rear wheels, and not overpower the available traction. It is a wide open throttle high-RPM launch. "
I have tried lightened flywheels on the 1zz a few times and also on a V6 powered Roadster, and still maintain that they are a very underrated mod. They do affect how the engine accelerates in the lower gears, not in the higher gears.
For me, it feels as if the engine has a more sporty edge to it and definitely suits the character of the car. This is for NA applications, though, as I've not found much benefit on turbocharged Roadsters.
Do we have any recommended sources for flywheels? I've got a quote from GT4-Play that was the cheapest, but is now pretty much the same price as everywhere else as apparently there's been a price increase from Steve's sources
LIghtweight flywheel transforms the driveability of the car - makes throttle response so much nicer when matching revs. And it can make the car faster - because you're not spending energy spinning up the mass of the flywheel! I love mine.
THe Fidanza has replaceable wear surfaces, so you can swap them out - because the flywheel itself is alloy. GOd knows how expensive/hard to source the wear surfaces are though. I hope mine never wears out, basically.
My appologies for reviving an old thread but it seems more appropriate than re-invent the flywheel.
Looks like I need to replace the cluth on my sweet smt and wondering of I shoudl/want to take the opportunity to go for a lighter flywheel at the same time.
Thank you.
Is the car engine and drivetrain otherwise standard? If so I wouldn't bother. Good for 2zz conversions or sportier 1ZZ builds/tunes though.
Thank you.
Not sure how the SMT would take to the change either? I know little about the system but having just fitted a competition clutch and light flywheel to my manual 1zz I know how easy they are to stall without a different style of setting off. More revs and a slight slip in some circumstances but I'm getting used to it.
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The smt deals better with it than the human driver ;-)
The system does the revs versus clutch pressure for you with electronic speed response/actuation.
Additionally it shifts up/down taking the engine revs into account meaning crisper action.
No issue there.
If anything léss of an issue there.
Not sure I would want to drop to a quarter/fifth of the flywheel-effect though. Yes, I know, the lightweight ones are say half the OEM one but almost all of the weight is shed from the outside meaning that the effect is several times the loss. Brilliant as that is what is the goal. Seems a bit brutal though for the street.
So, please expand on the driving experience. What is the gaín?
Mind, I have very, véry little, if any, slow moving traffic situations to deal with. Stop-n-go traffic is a rare occurrance. Hardly any traffic lights even!
I do have a lot of steep mountain tracks to accellerate up. That is why I am thinking about it.
Quote from: Petrus on April 28, 2019, 22:43
The smt deals better with it than the human driver ;-)
The system does the revs versus clutch pressure for you with electronic speed response/actuation.
Additionally it shifts up/down taking the engine revs into account meaning crisper action.
No issue there.
If anything léss of an issue there.
Not sure I would want to drop to a quarter/fifth of the flywheel-effect though. Yes, I know, the lightweight ones are say half the OEM one but almost all of the weight is shed from the outside meaning that the effect is several times the loss. Brilliant as that is what is the goal. Seems a bit brutal though for the street.
So, please expand on the driving experience. What is the gaín?
Mind, I have very, véry little, if any, slow moving traffic situations to deal with. Stop-n-go traffic is a rare occurrance. Hardly any traffic lights even!
I do have a lot of steep mountain tracks to accellerate up. That is why I am thinking about it.
What I meant was you need more revs to pull away from a standstill to compensate from the loss of flywheel weight, is the SMT system going to expect that weight? I've never driven an SMT, only ever manual or fully auto so not entirely sure how the SMT decides its time to set off.
Mine seems to pull better uphill than it did before without having to linger in the lower gears but having said that I've also just added around 25-30 bhp so probably a combination of the two.
It certainly spins up a lot more freely through 1st to 3rd and by then I'm usually at the speed limit anyway around town etc.
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First of all; thnaks for the feed back. I appreciate your time, thought given to me.
Ok, reading up on this on the various fora it seems there is a bit confusion about needing more revs when taking off just like there is about yes/no more hp from a lighter flywheel.
Let me start with the latter: No, a lighter flywheel does NOT increase hp, not even at the wheels. Then whý is higher output measured? Because nearly all dynometers are accelerometers and yes, less flywheel mass accelerates quicker. That is like accelerating up a mountain. Tatááá; same ower, crispier accelerating up a hill.
The rev thing.
There is NO reason why, with all else the same, the engine should need more revs to propel the car prom a standstill.
Because there is less flywheel mass however, the amount of friction from the clutch mopving the car or slowing the engine is more tricky to maintain.
Because of the human factor, it is easier on the impercfect operator to feather the clutch at slightly higher revs. because the lighter flywheel will be less forgiving on user error.
In the smt the human factor is eliminated. The electronics sort the relation revs/speed/clutch pressure out for you at the speed of light.
Giving it a bit more thought though.
As I explained not all that keen at the brutal loss of flywheel-effect of the aftermarket featherweights.
Been reading up on Lotus Elise/Exige fora too.
Same info, just more extensive as that lot is both more performance oriented and more inclined to throw money at it ;)
Picked up on an interesting angle though. Worth picking apart. Will come back on that when I understand it.
Btw. found a neat list:
~OEM - 16.5 lbs.
~Gripforce (chromoly) - 11.0 lbs.
~Blitz Active Clutch (chromoly) - 10.5 lbs.
~MWR (forged chromoly) - 10.5 lbs. (GTS)
~Toda (chromoly) - 10.3617 lbs.
~MWR (forged chromoly) - 10.2 lbs. (GT)
~C-One Standard (chromoly) - 9.9208 lbs.
~JUN (chromoly) - 9.6998 lbs.
~TRD Japan Flywheel (chromoly) - 9.6 lbs.
~RPS Cyn-R-G Segmented (aluminum) - 9.5 lbs.
~C-One Type-R (chromoly) - 8.8 lbs.
~TOM's (chromoly) - 8.03 lbs.
~AASCO (aluminum) - 8.0 lbs.
~Mueller (aluminum) - 8.0 lbs.
~Unorthodox (aluminum) - 8.0 lbs.
~Fidanza (aluminum) - 7.5 lbs.
Also applied a bit of mathematics with the gearbox ratios to calculate the equivalent weight loss off the car with a 10 lbs flywheel and it is roughly
1st 40Kg
2nd 25kg
3rd 15kg
4th 5kg
5th 2kg or ... next to nothing.
Uphill, I am most of the time in 2nd and 3rd with the odd corner in 1st.
So, once again, less ís more and it doés make quite a difference.
The ham question however is, how much daily drivability is it worth? Unlike lighter wheels or chucking the spare wheel this doés come with a downside.
I've driven two so far; the Fidanza is not one I'd want to deal with as a daily driver. Too light. I'd go through clutches like napkins in a grilled rib restaurant.
The Competition one on the other hand... Very nice drive. But that was in a stg2 cammed 2zz. Still, no issues at all with driveability but once engaged felt very light to accelerate. So, saves 6lb but worth it.
Fidanza would be my choice on a track car
Quote from: shnazzle on April 29, 2019, 00:40
I've driven two so far; the Fidanza is not one I'd want to deal with as a daily driver. Too light. I'd go through clutches like napkins in a grilled rib restaurant.
The Competition one on the other hand... Very nice drive. But that was in a stg2 cammed 2zz. Still, no issues at all with driveability but once engaged felt very light to accelerate. So, saves 6lb but worth it.
Fidanza would be my choice on a track car
Thank you.
Stg2 cammed 2zz is rather a bit more sensitive to stalling so go figure. Should be way better in an smt 1zz.
Pity that the 2ss flywheel does not fit the 1zz. As I mentioned the Lotus boys fit more lightweight clutches so have the OEM ones lying about. Now the Lótus OEM ones weigh 13 lbs.... Ok, not the 6 lb saving of the Comp. but 50 quid would buy one.
But alas.
Bottom line is that I have a lighter but not featherlight flywheel on the wish list.
I've got the Competition Clutch flywheel on my 1zz, pretty sure it's multi fitment and also fits the 2zz, not sure what the 2ss is that you refer to though?
I'm also stage 2 cammed and ACT performance clutched and although still to be successfully mapped it does need a few more revs to set off.
Spins up really well on the move though.
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Thanks.
I am not going any performance mods to the engine thus nor the clutch. Should thus not need more revs as far as éngine torque is concerned.
´2ss´ is a typo. Sorry.
The 2zz and 1zz flywheel have a different size centre hole and different bolt pattern. The clutch dimensions are the same.
Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 29, 2019, 09:43
I've got the Competition Clutch flywheel on my 1zz, pretty sure it's multi fitment and also fits the 2zz,
Checked and Competition Clutch have two diffent partnumbers for the two flywheels. Alas, a used 2ZZ flywheel from the Lotus crowd is not an option. It has to be from a 1ZZ engined model.
I've always found the throttle response good on the MR2, if it were me I would put the money into shorter gearing e.g the 2zz gearbox.
Quote from: Petrus on April 29, 2019, 11:31
Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 29, 2019, 09:43
I've got the Competition Clutch flywheel on my 1zz, pretty sure it's multi fitment and also fits the 2zz,
Checked and Competition Clutch have two diffent partnumbers for the two flywheels. Alas, a used 2ZZ flywheel from the Lotus crowd is not an option. It has to be from a 1ZZ engined model.
Well all I can say is the invoice for mine lists it as a 2zz flywheel and it definitely fits my 1zz gearbox so other than a typo on the invoice (which I queried with the supplier on delivery) I don't know what else to say about that.
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 29, 2019, 11:46
Well all I can say is the invoice for mine lists it as a 2zz flywheel and it definitely fits my 1zz gearbox so other than a typo on the invoice (which I queried with the supplier on delivery) I don't know what else to say about that.
Weírd!
Would be good news if so as I know of an unused Lotus Exige 2ZZ flywheel for sale. Weight just shy of 13 lbs.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190429/3eccba3eb1b9099aa5644f6224a8ebdd.jpg)
This is what is on mine, I only threw the packing away last week or I'd be able to check the details on the label.
Weighed in around 4.2kg if I remember rightly.
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 29, 2019, 11:55
This is what is on mine, I only threw the packing away last week or I'd be able to check the details on the label.
Weighed in around 4.2kg if I remember rightly.
Looks fast ;D
I think Petrus is correct that they don't fit both. I have an Assco that I got cheap from the US for my 1zz.
Before buying there was a listing on ebay uk by an engineering company (Haydon/ Hayward.....name sounded like that) that made stuff for racing, & the light flywheel was for a Lotus 2zz. After some investigation I found it didn't fit an MR2. The clutch is interchangeable, but something about the flywheel is different.
Quote from: Gaz mr-s on April 29, 2019, 12:07The clutch is interchangeable, but something about the flywheel is different.
The crankshafts are different, mores specifically the mounting flanges for the flywheel: Different centre hole and different bolt pattern.
Quote from: Petrus on April 29, 2019, 11:31
Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 29, 2019, 09:43
I've got the Competition Clutch flywheel on my 1zz, pretty sure it's multi fitment and also fits the 2zz,
Checked and Competition Clutch have two diffent partnumbers for the two flywheels. Alas, a used 2ZZ flywheel from the Lotus crowd is not an option. It has to be from a 1ZZ engined model.
The flywheel bolts from ARP are the same for the 1zz/2zz but the flywheels themselves are different. I bought my one from Seriously Lotus https://www.seriouslylotus.com/drivetrain/toyota-drivetrain/ultra-light-steel-flywheel-toyota-1zz-std-type-clutch
Think I got it for about £250 - it is very nice and the engine does not feel as laboured when building the revs.
Quote from: jvanzyl on April 29, 2019, 14:40I bought my one from Seriously Lotus https://www.seriouslylotus.com/drivetrain/toyota-drivetrain/ultra-light-steel-flywheel-toyota-1zz-std-type-clutch
Think I got it for about £250 - it is very nice and the engine does not feel as laboured when building the revs.
I think that one is the same as the Competition Clutch.
Quote from: Petrus on April 29, 2019, 21:41
Quote from: jvanzyl on April 29, 2019, 14:40I bought my one from Seriously Lotus https://www.seriouslylotus.com/drivetrain/toyota-drivetrain/ultra-light-steel-flywheel-toyota-1zz-std-type-clutch
Think I got it for about £250 - it is very nice and the engine does not feel as laboured when building the revs.
I think that one is the same as the Competition Clutch.
And around £40 more than I paid for mine [emoji23]
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 29, 2019, 21:48
And around £40 more than I paid for mine [emoji23]
Do share your source :D
Quote from: Petrus on April 29, 2019, 22:42
Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 29, 2019, 21:48
And around £40 more than I paid for mine [emoji23]
Do share your source :D
I got mine through Paul Pridham affiliated on here as TCB Performance Parts. He's looked after me quite well price wise, supplying most of the parts for my winter rebuild.
Not sure what the trans European delivery would be but worth the ask .
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Thank you, much obliged.
As I wrote, I am very much on the fence about the imo too light ones. I would pounce on a 13 lbs Lotus one but a 10 lbs or less??? That is getting to be very, véry little flywheel mass.
Ah well, it is only a luxury problem ;D
The weather is.... mediterranean, the fiesta de los pueblos in Fuengirola opens today and I am at Malageña gf´s so.... nót going with mine because of a real world problem: Her cabrio has an electric hardtop which is a bit more secure in an environment that is a magnet for opportunity crime.
Enjoy your day.
Petrus