K - been enjoying my upgrade for the last few weeks but knew there was something to burst the bubble. ECU has been throwing P0420 for a while, I figured it was a feature of the sports cat. There has also been the occasional cloud of smoke (sort of like smokescreen mode!) when it's sat for a while and then been driven or occasionally after a drive to somewhere and a return journey is started. Pulling the battery gives a similar cloud until it relearns, my suspicion at the moment is overfueling
I've been monitoring fluids - coolant is good, oil was down a bit but that might be related to oil change settling in, since I topped it up it's been all good, fuel gauge seems to move fast - but so does the car.
I swapped pre cat o2 sensors around and with the old ones to see if that helped, I replaced pcv valve as there was a trace of oil past the valve. Smoke might be less extreme now but then again it hasn't learned from scratch recently - when I cleared codes it smoked for a short while then settled down.
Also had one instance of p0121 throttle position sensor. That was recent and I haven't seen a repeat
Mot is due end of June so I took her in for a test. Failed on emissions.
Lambda is good .995
Hc is mostly good 58ppm
CO is not good .87
Second test went down slightly
.83
37ppm
Mot tester thought as the lambda was very solid that it was likely the cat. I asked if it was hot enough, he reckoned the fan cut in.
What to do...
I'm thinking:
Clean throttle body/test tps sensor
Clean MAF
Wrap manifold and pipework up to cat (was on my list of todo anyway)
Swap thermostat (again was on my list, it's stuck open I believe as car takes ages to warm)
Then go for a retest.
If it fails still im thinking maybe new cat. On that subject spoke to power flow exhausts in Brighton. The guy I spoke to reckoned 200 cel wouldn't be man enough and the answer was to go 400 cel (aka a normal cat) he also reckoned I wouldn't notice the difference. Would be interested in hearing from others. Looking back in mot's it has scraped through emissions tests in the past - is that normal?
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Example of scrape through - last test pre turbo kit - 0.17 CO, there's a prior test of .20 co so right on the edge
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High CO and good O2 and HC indicate a cat not getting the job done. The wrapping idea is a good one. If you think about it, a turbo takes energy (and therefore heat) out of the exhaust stream. Cats need to be hot to work. Might even be worth wrapping the cat itself.
Helen's has a 200 cell. Throws P0420 all the time. Gets through MOT but only if the cat is very hot.
The Cat isnt getting hot enough.
Just having the car sit there isnt enough it needs to be thrashed.
My cat was wrapped on my sp240.
200 cel is fine we all use them.
Get it proper hot and try again.
If not get a new cat they arent too expensive.
Also how old is your turbo could need new oil seals and have you changed the pcv because they can let oil past too.
That is interesting to know about the code and the heat. I'm going to wrap the cat as Carolyn suggested, every bit helps. Will report back. Doing stat this evening I think
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Wrap manifold and cat, really get all that heat going straight into the cat. It helps big style.
I'm convinced it's the only reason my car still gets through MOT
Quote from: "1979scotte"The Cat isnt getting hot enough.
Just having the car sit there isnt enough it needs to be thrashed.
Patsy's stock MR2 was also throwing up P0420 for a while, starting as pending then appearing as EML.
Thrashed the car for a day in the borders, reset the codes, & hey, presto, no more P0420.
I've done the pcv. Did think maybe it was turbo oil seals when I saw the oil levels were low . The 0420 fooled me into thinking it was a fueling issue. Might take turbo off and send for a preemptive refurb once mot is out of the way. Oil has stayed pretty static recently, mind you I haven't driven that many miles since bringing it home really, more quality than quantity. I'm tempted by the thrash it round the borders fix, sounds more interesting than wrapping the cat.
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I've had both those codes on my previous two SP turbos don't think anything major to worry about. As mentioned above you need the cat red hot to pass the mot or a very friendly mot tester s;) ;) s;)
As for the smoke could be oil return issue / breather issue / turbo oil seal / prob worth a check over, rebuild for piece of mind. Don't forget those turbo kits are a few years old now.
Manifold wrapped, downpipe just up to cat wrapped then I ran out of wrap. So went to work on stat. Charcoal canister off, belt is off, Plus gas soaking into alternator bolts.
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Good progress after lunch alternator off, stat swapped, got some coolant in, waiting for drive to dry so I can get alternator back in place
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Back together and drove - stat works well, engine now warms up to halfway very quickly. Things feel more happy (more than likely placebo affect) - turbo noises are different but still fun! Heater is messed up from it all, I'm hoping the airlock will clear from driving so I don't have to mess with it, no heater needed for a while hopefully. Going to get a retest booked first thing tomorrow!
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K smokescreen came back big style today. Luckily I was just starting to get my head around obd monitoring and was watching the values live on screen.
Short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim, significantly higher on 3/4 than 1/2. Long term 0.8/-3.1/9.4/7 short term 5.5/3.1/13.3/12.5
I'm going to swap the o2's and see if it follows them
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Have to point out I was watching live on idle on the drive!!
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Sounds exactly like mine after my turbo install, I had a lazy 02 sensor and a duff maf that wasn't throwing a code but was bad enough to mess up the whole setup.
Hope it turns out to be something like that. I swapped the o2 sensors, the problem stayed where it is. I'm now thinking, swap the injectors bank to bank, see if the problem moves. Will also clean the maf. If it moves with the injectors time to get them cleaned. Found a clean by post service for £12.50, worth a shot. I'm holding myself back from buying every sensor, they aren't cheap, although I get they are consumables I'd like some kind of evidence they are dead. If I send the injectors off I will send the turbo same time for peace of mind. Still got a while on the old mot which is cool. Also I have the old injectors on standby. That's today's plan at least!
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Swapped injectors, problem stayed where it was. Marginally less smoke. Next coil pack juggling. Then errrr
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Figured I'd chance my arm on a retest - no joy despite doing my best to get it warm. Spoke to tester a bit - he was saying he'd expect to see something from the cat when it was warmer - likelihood is it's shot. So plan at some point over the weekend, rip out turbo to send for refurb, plus the cat pipe for rewelding. Going to go all in and get the injectors done anyway. Plus for peace of mind I will do a compression test next week. Anyone know a good supplier of 200 cel cats?
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Also anyone ever used these guys for turbo refurb? m https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/reconditioned-turbo.html (https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/reconditioned-turbo.html) m
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That's annoying. I sent my Injectors of to be cleaned too, someone on ebay. Did a good job , didn't solve the problem but made it a little livelier.
Found this - mention of injectors leaking after shutdown and causing white smoke. m http://www.mr2oc.com/61-3sgte-turbo/431 ... 455?page=2 (http://www.mr2oc.com/61-3sgte-turbo/431455-white-smoke-when-you-first-start-up-car.html#/topics/431455?page=2) m
Interestingly similar although it can last more than 15 seconds. So now thinking slow down, don't get in a spending frenzy. Will get the injectors done, keep an eye then take a call. I'm pretty convinced the cat is shot, it's just the smokescreen to sort now. Going to refresh the two o2 sensors as I found them a lot cheaper than eurocarparts 140 each. Then I'm at a known good place with a couple of steps in the chain
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Try this link. m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... 9&start=30 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16933&sid=abc42e36a8858b9d7f34b4af007fc5d9&start=30) m
As far as I'm aware the sp kit shares major bits of the tte kit so this maybe helpful. Could be the oil restriction mentioned on page 2. Did you buy it from Matt ? As hes mentioned in that old thread so should know all about the problem, so maybe he can help.
K yeah I did buy it from Matt, interesting. So maybe it's oil drain, I will reach out to Matt and see what he says. Wonder how they redesigned it. Sounds like turbo checkup is sensible next step
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I think they made it a wider bore tube. But I'm going off memory so could be wrong.
Been busy with work and half term, smoke went away immediately after my last post and had stayed away for the last few days. Today my new o2's went in, engine is learning, had a flash of smoke again when out driving but it went fast. Will try and find Matt's details and ask about the drain. I'm going to get someone to do the exhaust removal and refit for me I think, too busy and would like the convenience of drive in/pick up. Then will pull the turbo when I have a bit of spare time. It's going really well at the moment since the new o2's.
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K I think I've nailed the smoke problem. Why does it smoke sometimes consistently for a while and then stop smoking for a while. Answer took a bit of head scratching, bit of reading, bit of looking then aha.
There are two places I park. We have two cars (technically 3 but one is a drive ornament) so you are either first on the drive or last on the drive. If your first on the car is pretty much flat - this is where I check oil etc. If your second on the drive drops away a lot - it's a 20 to 25 degree angle. The drain from the turbo is gravity fed, reading about it generally problems are caused by it not being wide enough, not having enough of a drop away, being restricted, being under the level of the sump oil. Last on the drive gets all the use as it's a pain to chop and change cars around all the time. So looking at the drain, matts turbo is low down on the engine, the angle is relatively shallow. I think at the moment the problem must be happening when I park at the end of the drive. So going to reverse in when I do that and see if the problem goes away. For the cat, I've got a quote from a good knowledgable guy, he suggested I try cataclean first, just did that, I figure the burning oil can't have helped the cat. I will get an emissions test next week after I've cleared through the final bits of cataclean, see where that stands me
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Good news. I also find letting the car idle for about 30 seconds minimum after parking helps, let's the oil drain and cool and prevents oil coking i think they call it.
Long absence. So what's happened.. well, step 1, my pristine one lady owner (and one owner before that !) well looked after car etc etc. Had a delivery driver reverse into it. s:( :( s:( killed the light cluster, bent tip of rear nearside panel, damaged bumper. It then went away for what felt like 8 weeks.It's back, I'm not massively happy as the panels don't line up like they used to but it's back s:) :) s:) . Work and holidays got in the way some more. But last week I took it for mot near to the place that was going to do the cat (booked same day!). It failed on emissions but also handbrake s:( :( s:( that was new from last time. I got a normal cat put in as I didn't need the upset of putting a sports cat in and failing again, it passed s:) :) s:) only just, 0.47 on idle, 0.04 on fast idle. The mechanic at the mot garage was going to put new cables in - but managed to get the old ones to sneak through the mot. I suspect they really didn't want to drop the fuel tank for the cable replacement. I'm ok with that as need to save cash for now for house move. My feel is I need to rebuild the engine, but not for a bit!! Woohoo! Can confirm that it does need a sports cat as it feels slightly less powerful than before - but it's still a lot of fun! On the bright side, it has mot till the end of next summer, which is the right time for the next set of problems. I'm hoping to move house before then which will give me more room to work on it when required. Also it is still my favourite car, but it needs some tlc cosmetically now. (Or maybe coilovers to cheer me up)
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Quote from: "Smcknighty"Long absence. So what's happened.. well, step 1, my pristine one lady owner (and one owner before that !) well looked after car etc etc. Had a delivery driver reverse into it. s:( :( s:( killed the light cluster, bent tip of rear nearside panel, damaged bumper. It then went away for what felt like 8 weeks.It's back, I'm not massively happy as the panels don't line up like they used to but it's back s:) :) s:) . Work and holidays got in the way some more. But last week I took it for mot near to the place that was going to do the cat (booked same day!). It failed on emissions but also handbrake s:( :( s:( that was new from last time. I got a normal cat put in as I didn't need the upset of putting a sports cat in and failing again, it passed s:) :) s:) only just, 0.47 on idle, 0.04 on fast idle. The mechanic at the mot garage was going to put new cables in - but managed to get the old ones to sneak through the mot. I suspect they really didn't want to drop the fuel tank for the cable replacement. I'm ok with that as need to save cash for now for house move. My feel is I need to rebuild the engine, but not for a bit!! Woohoo! Can confirm that it does need a sports cat as it feels slightly less powerful than before - but it's still a lot of fun! On the bright side, it has mot till the end of next summer, which is the right time for the next set of problems. I'm hoping to move house before then which will give me more room to work on it when required. Also it is still my favourite car, but it needs some tlc cosmetically now. (Or maybe coilovers to cheer me up)
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Good to hear its sorted/being sorted s:) :) s:)
P.S. TCB has K-Sport coilovers in stock s:D :D s:D
Interesting! Very reasonably priced, might be an option - group buy?
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Mine never failed on emissions with a 200 cel cat and neither does my V6.
You just have to get them hot.
If it's failing MOT then cat is fubar or something else is wrong.
Yeah I think something else is wrong to be honest. Not sure what yet though.
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