Hi all what are your thoughts on the Monkeywrench conversion kit ? Is this the answer to maximizing the potential of the 1zz engine ?
I'm running a turbo converted 1zz that will be around 250bhp soon but understand from various posts that any further power increases will be held back by the gearbox not being able to handle torque above 225ish .....
Any thoughts or input would be much appreciated
Don't the conrods also give up the ghost before the gearbox does? 13psi or something?
I honestly don't know , MWR said 1zz good for a lot more bhp with he right mods , maybe that was one of them ...?
I would like the 3sgte conversion if anyone done it
I don't know either haha!
I know from on here that the gearbox is indeed a weak point at 230-240ftlb.
Actually, isn't stupink running 280 or 290 out of his stock 1zz?
Be interesting to know what Leethesparky's is pushing out... hes running about 12 psi on stock internals
Ah, true! But he does say in the clip that the 1zz isn't built to last long at 12psi and that he has a spare built engine sitting there for when this one goes boom.
That doesn't bode well for 12psi haha
Stock gearbox becomes a consumable much beyond 240 lb/ft, Jubu Racing 3rd and 4th extends this limit to around 265 lb/ft. Always give the gearbox a lot of time to warm up before giving it beans. E153 takes more torque. I've got a spare E153 going cheap if anyone wants one? Diff needs a rebuild.
There we go s:) :) s:)
So, you'd need to be running a fairly beefy setup to require an e153. And doesn't the e153 have really dodgy ratios for the 1zz?
The stock E153 ratios would be about right for a heavily boosted 1zz I would think. The spare box I have is running a custom made short ratio diff and would be better suited to sprinting or a heavily boosted 2zz.
I'd be scared of whatever car had that setup s:) :) s:) All the best Paul
Don't forget the large weight penalty for the e153 box
Not sure but for nearly $3k is it really worth it .......? plus shipping !!
I looked at MWR built 1zz last year when my original engine gave up ,didn't see the point if the gearbox gives out and it would still have the oil issues even with a baffled sump
The V6 swap seems expensive if durable for only 200bhp .....is it expensive to get something like 300 plus out of that engine ?
Depends what V6 you are talking about 1mz variants would need supercharging, so not cheap. I believe 2gr gives you around 300 with the Gouky exhaust manifold and a free flowing exhaust. Also no cheap.
Gearbox is about torque and heat. A high revving boosted engine like a 2zz could go well beyond 300bhp without exceeding 240lb/ft, again, not cheap. The E153 has gearbox oil cooling, which would help it deal with sustained high power throughput. C series gearboxes don't have this, so if you are going to work it hard over a sustained period, you'd possibly prefer the E153.
Fast. Reliable. Cheap. Pick two.
For the price of the conversion kit plus the gearbox would pay for a 2zz swap .....which I looked into last year , some on here for it and others said put another 1zz in until it goes again .....
I have zero mechanical knowledge other than what i read and glean from yourselves on here
Is it worth looking into the stronger gears mentioned further up the thread ?
Think the last quote I saw for those was 700 quid....
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"For the price of the conversion kit plus the gearbox would pay for a 2zz swap .....which I looked into last year , some on here for it and others said put another 1zz in until it goes again .....
I have zero mechanical knowledge other than what i read and glean from yourselves on here
Is it worth looking into the stronger gears mentioned further up the thread ?
I asked about gearboxes a while back when I was researching, seems that they take take the power ok for most applications but 3rd and 4th are weaker, have seen a few higher power 2zz engines run the Juba gears, its the torque that kills the box:
l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62210 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62210) l
I've bit the bullet and enquired of costs to swap the 1zz out for something more reliable and more powerful ......
Any members offering this service?
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"I've bit the bullet and enquired of costs to swap the 1zz out for something more reliable and more powerful ......
Any members offering this service?
I think Rogue motorsports do a drive in drive out 2zz conversion.
I've spoken to them in the past and others about that conversion , is the 2zz gearbox able to handle more torque than the 1zz ? cant you bolt it onto the 1zz...?
asked a few questions last year on here when replacing my last 1zz and the consensus was stick with 1zz with the turbo setup I have although base start at 190bhp + turbo interested me
have enquired with woodsport re V6 and 3sgte swap costs
MWR figures for built 1zz are quite impressive to say the least 4/5/600bhp ............ no mention of gearbox issues ..........
I would prefer to stay 1zz , cause if all went wrong I could recoup some of my money selling parts .
6 and 2 3s going 2zz. Fits straight in so if things go pear shaped, you've still got everything the same. Whereas the v6s basically mean your car will be a V6 forever unless you spend the same amount again re-converting it to 1zz
Go 2zz. Plenty room to go from there
I'm with you on that one with regards to the V6 swap , my questions would be what am I gaining from the 2zz swap over a built 1zz? , I'll be paying someone to do the work for me so its 3 grand ish for 2zz and modify turbo setup and a similar figure built 1zz from MWR but bolt turbo back on ..........
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"I'm with you on that one with regards to the V6 swap , my questions would be what am I gaining from the 2zz swap over a built 1zz? , I'll be paying someone to do the work for me so its 3 grand ish for 2zz and modify turbo setup and a similar figure built 1zz from MWR but bolt turbo back on ..........
Surely you would just unbolt the current turbo setup and then bolt it back onto the 2zz?
excuse my mechanical ignorance , I was told it wasn't as straight forward as that ....? wouldn't it still be better to go built 1zz if the numbers cash wise were similar ?
You'd need a different manifold,. The flange is upside down on the 2zz compared to 1zz.
The 2zz has better lined bores and I believe forged rods.
Power output is indeed the same but you get the added benefit of lift in the 2zz
if it was just about manifold I would consider the 2zz ..........
I asked here last year about options when my last engine started knocking and one member said the turbo size on the whiffbitz kit isn't big enough to keep it in lift ...........??
Mitsubishi TD04 T25 modified with larger compressor wheel , this is what they fitted
Hi all any further thoughts on if my turbo setup would work with the 2zz swap and is just a manifold change and new map ??
And to make sure the ecu/harness you choose is compatible. Nerds to support lift control instead of just vvti
Apexi engine management system I've got installed
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"Hi all any further thoughts on if my turbo setup would work with the 2zz swap and is just a manifold change and new map ??
I think a T25 derivative may struggle to feed enough air into the engine at high revs.
that's what was said on here last year with my setup
I'm wondering what is possible bhp wise with my turbo and the 1zz, 270bhp is what Whiffbitz said it could make when they fitted it ......
I see leethesparky is running 12psi with my setup plus charge cooler don't think I'm running anywhere near that
more I look at this its built 1zz with stronger gears if I wanted reliability and around 300bhp , in my very limited mechanical knowledge that is ..........!!
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"more I look at this its built 1zz with stronger gears if I wanted reliability and around 300bhp , in my very limited mechanical knowledge that is ..........!!
I don't think you will find that
reliability and engine upgrade/ conversion/exchange/ turbo / supercharge typically feature in the same conversation especially once you are talking plus 220/ 240bhp.
It seems to me you spend a fortune getting the additional power.
You spend another fortune on upgrading the car to handle well with the additional power.
You then spend an additional fortune on repairing/ maintaining / replacing everything the power breaks.
Finally you spend a further fortune upgrading the cosmetics to compliment the additional power.
At the end you have the fortune to own a pretty fast, good looking, go kartesque car. Ask me how I know!
I hear you loud and clear as I've just spent another large pile of cash on monocraft kit ,coilovers new wheels, adapters etc etc .....
But its all good fun .........
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"I hear you loud and clear as I've just spent another large pile of cash on monocraft kit ,coilovers new wheels, adapters etc etc .....
But its all good fun .........
It definitely is! My Ducati will start to morph once the summer ends. Custom is cool in my book.
Just spoke to woodsport about conversions , I see you have the 1mz whats your opinion on the v6 ?
For me and my driving style the 1MZ is really perfect. I wanted a powerful bulletproof gokart. that I can drive every day. The car is now much faster than standard, but its not so ballistically fast to force you to feel on the edge, all the time. I can overtake effortlessly without having to down change, though running through country lanes in third is a blast on occasion! The sound of the V6 is an extra bonus.
The extra weight of the engine 1MZFE 153kgs / 337lbs (with S54 gearbox 54kg) / 118lbs compares to 1ZZ 103kgs 225/lbs & 2ZZ 115kgs / 254lbs so overall you are looking at an extra 38kgs or 6 stones. I have modified suspension, but I have never really noticed any difference in the weight distribution when driving compared to a standard 1zz. This is probably due to the weight being so low off the ground. I've spoken to others with this conversion an they all say the same.
The fuel consumption is not great at 25/28mpg. I didn't do this for the fuel economy, but I would have liked 32....
I had problems with the gear selector mechanism, but I had it rebuilt / redesigned by Robbie in Liverpool for a little more than a hundred pounds. Otherwise I've replaced the clutch and had a yearly service & MOT in three plus years. For a modified engine swap this is very good imo.
Upgrading/ tuning a 1ZZ doesn't give the extra power I was looking for and its expensive relative to the gains. A turbo 1zz is similar cost and can be faster but often less reliable. A 2zz is slower, might be cheaper to do but I didn't want a high rev/ narrow powerband car. Still each to their own.
I hope this gives you another view to consider.
The manifold I sourced for the turbo kit I put together (before a good turbo car came up for sale) has the bolt holes for both 1zz and 2zz. I don't know if it turns into a top mount turbo on a 2zz though. It's cast and got a t3 flange.
mind made up , spoke to Patrick yesterday , forged 1zz it is ......!!
any info on forged parts this side of the pond would be much appreciated ??
trying to save a few quid on tax from MWR by buying here if poss
I was just wondering what happened to your car after you forged the internals? Did it blow up or are you still boosting around?